wondering...

[dorkusxmaximus]

I'm sorry if there's already a thread like this, but i've been thinking about this for a while. Is it wrong just to practice kendo for the thrill of a shiai and competition? I think that's what really got me to stay in the first place. I was seriously bored to death months before my first shiai experience and many times contemplated about quitting. Shiai basically gave me a purpose to practice hard in the first place. A lot of people on this forum has like really good reasons why they practice kendo, but I'm just in it for the competition. It just sounds wrong to me for some reason.

[JSchmidt]

As long as you aren't harming anyone and you are enjoying yourself, I don't see any problem with it..I don't agree with that look on kendo, but different people, different strokes...

Jakob

[Cypher]

I suppose it all depends on your dojo and the preference of your sensei...I've heard some dojos emphasise competition, and some traditional aspects.

As long as you do your best and enjoy yourself, I don't think anyone can object. ^^

[dorkusxmaximus]

I'm harmless hahah T_T. I don't consider kendo like a sport or anything because I know what it's a MA. See, that's why I think it's wrong somehow. It's like I could've just done something else more oriented towards competition instead.

No, no, no. My dojo is very traditional :) . The school has a pretty long history too ^_^.

[Shazzanzzz]

I love competitions. It's my biggest enjoyment of kendo. I'm sure i would still be doing kendo if i never competed. But, the shiais make it so fun!! Getting medals, trophies, especially team ones, best feeling in the world. I never mind defeats, because i find something to work on after each one of them. I hate losing, so, i work hard because of that i think.

I mean, without competition, how can you get better? In anything in life.

All my senseis are very traditional also, but, that doesn't mean they don't like competition. But, win with good kendo.

[Hotei]

DORKUS- we share a similar fear, though I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I love Kendo, however I have no desire, nor intention of ever competing outside my own dojo. I know that Shazz has a similar opinion of how you grow your skills (through competition), and I'd be happy to just get to the point where I can beat my Sensei. :)

I suppose what I enjoy most is doing suburi and kata.. . Yeah, yeah, I know; It's a sickness. I agree with the above in that you join the group that you want to join. If your dojo is into shiai, you're in the right place. My dojo is not big into competition, though several of our members are.

Good luck!

[Shazzanzzz]

DORKUS- we share a similar fear, though I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I love Kendo, however I have no desire, nor intention of ever competing outside my own dojo. I know that Shazz has a similar opinion of how you grow your skills (through competition), and I'd be happy to just get to the point where I can beat my Sensei. :)

I suppose what I enjoy most is doing suburi and kata.. . Yeah, yeah, I know; It's a sickness. I agree with the above in that you join the group that you want to join. If your dojo is into shiai, you're in the right place. My dojo is not big into competition, though several of our members are.

Good luck!

Well, i think wanting to beat your sensei is still wanting to improve and improving through competition.

I think practicing with people outside your dojo can only improve your kendo.

[Hotei]

SHAZZ - Yeah, I was agreeing with you. In my opinion, you're correct; sorry if I didn't make that clear. Competition is almost always a good thing, though some of us choose not to take it as far as others, or even outside of our school. Whether your goals are lofty or notasloftyaslofty (my own word, thank you), competition helps you grow stronger.

Be peace.

[AlexM]

I'm sorry if there's already a thread like this, but i've been thinking about this for a while. Is it wrong just to practice kendo for the thrill of a shiai and competition? I think that's what really got me to stay in the first place. I was seriously bored to death months before my first shiai experience and many times contemplated about quitting. Shiai basically gave me a purpose to practice hard in the first place. A lot of people on this forum has like really good reasons why they practice kendo, but I'm just in it for the competition. It just sounds wrong to me for some reason.

Face it Nancy.. you're doing kendo for all the wrong reasons. I think you should quit... I'm kidding! Please don't kill me :D

Actually, I'm sort of curious: Are you doing kendo just to WIN in shiai or just for the thrill of competition? (which one assumes can still be achieved through the fine art of losing)

Wanting to win is not a bad thing in itself I think. Competiting and wanting to be competitive is certainly not a bad thing. If that's what you want that's fine in my most humble opinion.

The opponent is always technically yourself... beating the other guy is a bit meaningless if you weren't fighting well. If however you managed to beat the other person by either maintaining a high level (that you achieved through training) or even surpassing what you thought possible that's quite a victory. Even losing is such circumstances is fine by me.

[Swissv2]

Your desire to practice just for competition is certainly comparable to other types of activities that require high skill. While one may gain a thrill for competition, it may be easy to become restless during the time periods before the competition or shiai. Forgive me if I make bad analogy; you have purchased a new billiards cue stick. You have saved long to buy this fancy new cue stick as many professionals in billiards recommend highly of it. You practice at home or with a teacher, but see competitions everywhere. You know there is high skill out there in the competitive world, but to enter into a competition fascinates you.


Questions you should ask yourself at this point are:

Are you comfortable with losing more often than winning which is what happens normally with entering into a higher level?
Are your self discipline strong and your form mastered so it is stable enough so when you enter the competition, you don’t lose your training and get sloppy?


If so, very good!

Remember, you must never forget your hard training. Your training if done with a rigorous discipline and passion (mind, body, and spirit) will take you far. Lose this integrity, and you lose your training which would mean started from the basics again. You will always improve yourself in your quiet dojo when your mind is set on improving daily.

Perhaps your sensei will see your improvement and recommend you to compete!

My 2 Cents :wink:

[dorkusxmaximus]

I was hoping someone would say that to me LOL. Thanks Alex hahaha. Now I can quit and use you as a scapegoat hahah. J/k =P. I think me and Harry are in the process of coming up with a very effective waza against you. It's in alpha formation minus the third person.

I think I'm more into the thrill of shiai because I like well fought matches and to go all out ^_^, so losing isn't too much of a deal most of the time. It's nice to win, but it happens when it happens. I don't want to go there with a high expectation of myself just to get disappointed. Now that will leave me depress for days LOL. Hey, it was a lot worse before =P. I'd like to win big someday and get placed, so that's why I practice hard. Now if I have a kendo rival, you'll see me practicing 10x harder hahah. Now only if my friend returned ^_^. She was good :smiley: .

Swiss, I can only answer one out of the two questions =). Nope, don't mind too much at all.

[mingshi]

I think there are people who play the piano or chess for entertainment, self-improvement, and also competitions. Again, it's a personal preference. The goal is slightly different but your training journey is more or less the same, no?

[Nishi]

Someone once told me kendo was like university, you can take whatever you want, but invest your time with caution.

So i miss class to drink beer (kidding)

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you look at the results of competitions in an area, you'll note that the same short list of people are coming out on top all the time. So in say, Vancouver/Seattle maybe there are 500 people practising, and 20 winning. Are 480 people wasting their time? If their attitude is only competition, maybe they are.

For me, one of the joys of kendo is that it doesn't stop with competition. In so many sports you find people who quit as soon as they no longer are competitive. How many 50 year old football players do you find? Kendo is very deep, and you can take a lot from it without ever winning a trophy. If your only goal is to win a trophy, you are likely to be dissappointed - clearly only the top few competitors win the trophies.

OTOH there's nothing wrong with enjoying competitions, and I think if you shy away from them entirely you're missing an important part of kendo.

[dorkusxmaximus]

i'm not only oriented towards competition =O. Everyone has different reasons why they take kendo and stick with it. Competition is one of the reasons I'm still there, but not a huge part anymore. I genuinely like kendo a lot, but sometimes I hate it. If the shiai part to kendo wasn't there, I would've quit a long time ago because all of those repetitious drills didn't make any sense to me before. I was bored to death doing the same thing. Everything finally clicked that day I had my first shiai experience.

[not-I]

i'm not only oriented towards competition =O. Everyone has different reasons why they take kendo and stick with it. Competition is one of the reasons I'm still there, but not a huge part anymore. I genuinely like kendo a lot, but sometimes I hate it. If the shiai part to kendo wasn't there, I would've quit a long time ago because all of those repetitious drills didn't make any sense to me before. I was bored to death doing the same thing. Everything finally clicked that day I had my first shiai experience.
Then it sounds like you've already answered your original question. Only you can answer those kinds of questions anyhow, based on your own experiences.

I think you'll find that the longer you practice kendo, the more you'll find yourself re-evaluating your priorities and thinking, not only in kendo, but in the rest of your life as well.

[dorkusxmaximus]

I think I started this thread because of a conversation I had with my sensei a while back ago. I was curious to see if some of the viewpoints on this forum matched his.

[Swissv2]

You may find yourself feeling like you see "greener pastures" on the other side of the fence. But to correctly analyze your desire is merely hypothetical now.



This could be a proposition you can bring to your sensei. People develop differently under different circumstances. Some people improve more by deeply understanding and have a good feel for waza before competing; others improve more by jumping into a competition or Shiai. Drive and compassion for the sport should be the very reasons that you probably enjoy practicing Kendo!



Tell your sensei to watch you when you go to a competition or Shiai. If he/she sees you are improving more by being in these two events, then you can definitely propose to do those events more!



It is only up to your sensei to decide whether you are ready or not. But is is up to you personally to remember your training always, and do not get sloppy.
:D

[Hotei]

OTOH there's nothing wrong with enjoying competitions, and I think if you shy away from them entirely you're missing an important part of kendo.I used to love tournaments. I sought them out for almost 20 years, but I suppose I've become a little burned out by the poor attitudes from those that use it as a way of "proving superiority", when it should really be a big, fat respect-fest.

I've participated in tournaments in 3 countries and watched in even more and, while I find nothing inherently wrong with it, the attitude about competition in my country (U.S.A.) creates a less positive attitude for the players.

That being said, some of my best friends in the world are those that I've beaten or been beaten by, in the ring. There is definately a good element to be found, but you must be like the lotus, and not mind the muddy water.

[meow]

I think there is nothing wrong if you like to go to tournaments.

I guess this is a very valuable experience for your kendo. You are only 20 years old and you are already 3. kyu and going to tournaments...please don´t quit kendo because I wished I had started kendo earlier and had your experience.

Just imagine what your kendo can be in 10 years. ;)

greetings

meow

[Kiki]

I love competitions. It's my biggest enjoyment of kendo. I'm sure i would still be doing kendo if i never competed. But, the shiais make it so fun!! Getting medals, trophies, especially team ones, best feeling in the world. I never mind defeats, because i find something to work on after each one of them. I hate losing, so, i work hard because of that i think.

I mean, without competition, how can you get better? In anything in life.

All my senseis are very traditional also, but, that doesn't mean they don't like competition. But, win with good kendo.

Ditto. HEALTHY Competition is a big motivator for me. Whether it's against my own mind (I'll never get this) or in a shai.

[Masahiro]

To the starter of this thread, I have a question for you. .. What do you do if you are never to win any match in any tournament for the next 15 years?

[dorkusxmaximus]

i would hate kendo for life, quit, burn all my gear, and break all my shinais :smiley: . I'm just kidding by the way =P. That's a really good question, Masahiro. I'll probably still stick to it because I don't mind losing to stong opponents ^_^. Instead I'll be thinking how great it is to go against a strong person.

[tapioka]

wahahah...I've found you, dorkusxmaximus!! now you have yet to find out who this is...

but based on your thoughts, I think you're on a fine track. I see you're not doing kendo for the sake of relishing the feeling of beating the crap out of some lone kendoist. if it's the desire to improve, I see no reason for being ashamed.

keep it goin' mah homie. ;) (hint hint)

[dorkusxmaximus]

Oh no! I've been found :eek: . What ever shall I do :wink: ? Hey my homie g-dawg yo, how have you been since the last time you walked out of my kendo life T_T, or was it the other way around :confused2 ? I saw you once and that's it? No phone call or email? I'm so hurt T_T! The days I waited and waited for your call =P haha. Anyway, I am more than honored to receive a blessing from a homie like you =). Thanks, man. By the way, when do we get to rumble again :smiley:? We were tied the last time.

[tapioka]

dabnabit...you know who I am?? curses...:silly:

yah, I haven't seen ya for quite a while, hmm? well then, looks like we'll be having some philosophical discussions over a pop or two at practice next time...hehehe.

[dorkusxmaximus]

You were asking to be discovered, buddy LOL. It sucked that I wasn't here to see you first join, but welcome to kendo-world. Haha yeah, we're probably going to have some deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep conversation next time. Pop sounds good. I'll bring some coke.

[tapioka]

yay for coke. coke is good. I'd supposedly also like some ramune from Uwajimaya though. :p philosophical thinking requires sugar.

[dorkusxmaximus]

ramune?! you are so demanding =O!!! Teenagers~! Sheesh! Those bottles cost like about errrr *checking*...more than a regular bottle of coke =P! Okay, i'll bring it T_T. I just got punked yo =O.

[Swissv2]

Sorry to interject your nice conversation :confused2

What I feel is you should do a shiai to improve yourself, not only to win :)

[dorkusxmaximus]

No, no, you didn't interrupt us at all. I agree with you, Swiss. Shiai is a great experience to improve. I always find myself in some sort of reflection after each shiai i'm in. That's why I probably love shiais a lot.

[tapioka]

I think shiais are like kendo showcases. you get to display your own stuff, and at the same time look at what other people have got in order to get hints for yourself. I love shiais too. (^^)

and don't you go forgetting that ramune, dorkus...(evil glinting eye)

[dorkusxmaximus]

Was that a threat just now =O?! You know what I should do to you???? huh? HUH?? HUHHHHHH?? I eat chumps like you for breakfast! Anyway, would you like your ramune cold or slightly chilled =P? Man, that stare terrified me :confused2 .

[tapioka]

as a matter of fact I'd like the ramune in a tall glass, with ice, and the bottle set aside for me to keep. oh, and I'd like to have the marble removed from the bottle please, but you may NOT break the bottle. what would be best is if you added a maraschino cherry and a cocktail umbrella.

specific enough for you, dorkus? ;)

[dorkusxmaximus]

if i colored the marble red and glue a stem to it, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference :wink: .

[tapioka]

right...I won't be able to tell the difference till I bite into it and end up using dentures for the rest of my life. (¬_¬);;

[dorkusxmaximus]

Awwww now I feel bad =(, but that's what you get for demanding that cherry =P. Tell you what, I'll bring ramune for you the next time I drop by practice. Just ramune! Nothing else~! I'm a poor college student, for heaven sakes~. Deal =)?

[Swissv2]

same here, poor college students unite!!!

[tapioka]

oh pfft dorkus, I wasn't being serious about the ramune...if anything, we'll split an Arctic Ice Powerade drink from the vending machine over at Bellevue dojo. 50 cents each for the two poor kenshi. deal? ;)