Shu-Ha-Ri

[iwatekenshi]

I'd like to see some explanations or opinions on the subject or rather the concept of Shu-Ha-Ri. It was a question on one of my written examinations awhile back. I think it's one of the most interesting topics in kendo especially when progressing into the higher dan ranks.

[Karaken]

I'd like to see some explanations or opinions on the subject or rather the concept of Shu-Ha-Ri. It was a question on one of my written examinations awhile back. I think it's one of the most interesting topics in kendo especially when progressing into the higher dan ranks.
IW, it's been a while. Hope you're doing OK..

Maybe I'm naive to think that Shu-Ha-Ri is one of the simplest concept to understand among many complicated ones. Any ancient martial art books or movies usually involves a student who begs to enter a dojo usually in a montain. They're not allow to ask questions or question the teaching. They must HOLD (Shu) onto whatever instruction or practice that need to be done. When the student is sufficiently experienced to understand the basic underpinnings of the art, he starts to understand the reason behind the teachings and the TAKE APART (HA) logical side of the art. This might involve discussion of some sort on Maai or Seme etc..
When the teacher thinks he can no longer teach the student, he orders the student to LEAVE(RI) ( we used to joke about coming down the mountain ) the Dojo - maybe to study on his own or become a soke(?) of his own Ryu.
( Beacuse his learning from that point will not be anything that were known - it'll have to something new - his own )

That's just my mumbling of sort. Maybe I totally missed the point(?) - it just sounds very basic.

Center

[Kirin]

A maxim which is used generally in training and study. It is used as a term which explains the levels of training in KENDO. SHU is the level where one obeys the principles of a particular style (school) and learns them solidly. HA is the level where one does not simply adhere to the style one has learned, but through interchange with other schools, expands and deepens one's own techniques. RI is the level where one further develops one's art and establishes a new, personal style
----from Japanese-English Dictionary on Kendo

I suppose this would be 5-dan up written exam question?

Many will agree that in macro view of 守破離(shu ha ri), SHU is up to 3-dan level.
But I think we can think　守破離(shu ha ri) in more micro point of view which we can apply on daily practices.
After 2-3yrs of kendo practice (maybe 5-6yrs?), you will face first big wall in kendo....called 'seme'. You know the concept of seme, 三殺法(san satu no hou or san sappou), and your sensei might tell you to use left hand and left foot(back of left knee -hikagami-) At this stage, you must think and be creative to accomplish and to learn 'seme'. Considering your height, age and experience, you must come up with your (psudo)original style. Watching (mitori keiko) your sensei/senpai might help or/and try to change angle/tnesion of your left knee also might help...etc
I think you can say this is part of HA and RI.
Once you thought you clear this wall, then you will face another taller and thicker wall in few yrs or even in few months........ *sigh*

My example was 'seme' more of concept/mental part, but in case of more technical/waza aspects, some people has tendency to derail at this HA & RI stage.
If one thinks he master certain waza, he use that as excuse to avoid SHU part of kendo. He will not look back basic kendo.... probably the worst pattern as kenshi.... they become obsessed with winning/scoring.

Anyrates, I think in path of kendo, there is nothing but small repetition of 守破離(shu ha ri)

[Charlie]

Read an interesting article on this!

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=254