Women vs. men... the myths

[senki-kendo-jos]

I've heard a few people going on about women vs men in kendo. Personally i don't think it's an issue. I don't get intimidated by men just because they're big, if I do get intimidated it's because they're fast or have very good technique. I think guys need to realise this... us girlie kendoka are just as intimidating as they are... am I right ladies!!!

[Akasha]

Sotaro Honda wrote an interesting piece on 'Attitudes to Ji-geiko' in the most recent BKA newsletter. He spoke of Women doing ji-geiko with men and vise versa I found it very interesting.

Perhaps shiai is somewhat different. In my opinion, I would not do well to be too or always intimidated by men as I am the only girl in my dojo. Obviously the majority of fencing I do is with men and this is likely to always be the case. I may find some strong large men difficult but then being lighter and smaller oftens offers the advantage of having more speed against my opponent. If he is bigger and stronger than I, then I do my best to not get into a situation where he can use that to his advantage.

I do not think it is such an issue for us girls as we mainly fence men anyway, its the men who only come across us every now and then. Because its almost always a man, gender does not enter my head and like senki-kendo-jos said its the level of good kendo that can be intimidating.

[GMason]

I agree that sometimes it is actually the Bloke who get ..... unsettled by fencing a female.

The first time I fenced a woman, it was in my Ikkyu grading. I found it very unsettling for the first.... well about..........twenty..........thirty seconds into the grading and she cut my men, and if I remember correctly it was a corker !!!

If any one wants to see how a woman can fence a big intimdating bloke. You should have seen Vai Leng from the Macau Team fence Dave Bell from the GB team this weekend in the Bowden Memorial Taikai, Leng is about 5"5 and Dave is 6"+, she was almost give Hansoku for push and being too rough, she "took no Sh#t" as the saying goes.

[D'Artagnan]

As, Akasha said, there is an article on www.kendo.org.uk entitled 'Attitudes to Ji Geiko (part 1&2)', writen by Sotaro Honda, which not only covers how men should fence women, but also how women should fence men, how we should fence with the elderly, senior and junior grades etc. I must say, i think it is a truly excellent article, and (for what it is worth) would, and do reccomend it to any kendoka.

The match GMason talks of (Vai Leng vs. Dave Bell) was truly awesome! I know guys that are 16 stone +, that find her intimadating!! I know I do :confused2

hopefully i have managed to correctly attach a snapshot from that bout...

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4512051&uid=2300818

I hope it worked???

Andy

[Paikea]

An excellent article, thank you!

[Flashman]

hopefully i have managed to correctly attach a snapshot from that bout...

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery...051&uid=2300818

I hope it worked???

Forget kendo, check out Kim. Oh, my. :cool:

[D'Artagnan]

Why Thank you, she is truly gorgeous isn't she...

[moetl]

hopefully i have managed to correctly attach a snapshot from that bout...
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=4512051&uid=2300818
I hope it worked???yeah it worked. and - wow! one can virtually feel the tension between the two. great photograph!

[dnakase]

hopefully i have managed to correctly attach a snapshot from that bout...

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery...051&uid=2300818

I hope it worked???

Forget kendo, check out Kim. Oh, my. :cool:
That's a big f'ing horse

[nalogg]

I have not yet sparred, but doing suburi practice against girls, i find if they make eye contact and have a really good kiai, they intimidate me a bit...

Something I myself as a guy shouldn't have trouble with right?
guess i gotta work on my Kiai and death-stare

GRRRRRRR!

>8^D

[Akasha]

Forget kendo, check out Kim. Oh, my. :cool:

Ahem! That would be me actually, nosey!

I should say thanks :wink:

Kim
DSKYK Preston

[Shazzanzzz]

Speed, power, height.... They don''t matter that much. They are just weapons one can use to their advantage, but, could also be their disadvantage at the same time. I think even speed can be a disadvantage because people tend to use it too much sometimes, and lose because of it.

So, i don't really think gender is a problem at all in kendo, since it's mostly about the mind, not body. That's why 80 year old hachidans can still kick everyone's ass.

I haven't met a girl that can totally kick my ass in kendo yet, but, i would be happy when i do, especially if she's as pretty as akasha :-D.

[kendokamax]

thats an other myth.

80 years hachi dan would be in good shape (for 80 years old) but wouldnt 'kick' ur ass.

[Shazzanzzz]

thats an other myth.

80 years hachi dan would be in good shape (for 80 years old) but wouldnt 'kick' ur ass.

um... Have you practiced with a hacihdan sensei before? If they want to, you won't be able to do anything.

[Musha]

I think Leng is one of the best Kendo-ka I have seen in England. I have started to like fencing her too much hehe... I got to try and fence with you Gmason on Sunday. And I wonder if Mr Needham would let me do Nito, I can never work out how Sensei feel about that.
Oh I thought of a new post..

P.s Who is Kim?? :D.

[Neil Gendzwill]

thats an other myth.

80 years hachi dan would be in good shape (for 80 years old) but wouldnt 'kick' ur ass.
Bwahaha. Just practice with one of those guys is all I've got to say.

[D'Artagnan]

P.s Who is Kim?? :D.

Kim, A.K.A. Akasha, my partner. Who is currently sat with me grinning like a cheshire cat...

Thanks to Flashman and Shazzanzz...

[mingshi]

Personally i don't think it's an issue...
True.

Just that Musha on the other thread said he doesn't like Tsuki and Tai-atari... both are wicked waza IMHO.

...and I thought hmm is he a guy? :rolleyes:

btw last year at the Premire's Cup I scored a Men on a guy double my height... since then I start to believe I can do anything, even if I am smaller, shorter, a girl, no muscles, etc. etc. Those are just excuses for losers who don't put in an effort.

[Nishi]

Just practice with one of those guys is all I've got to say. *posters note* Neil is refering to 80 years old hachidan

I have fenced 70 year old nanadan...Im with Neil on this one.

Bwahaha.

I second the motion, Bwahaha.


Forget kendo, check out Kim. Oh, my.

Actually I think youve put a few pounds on Akasha.... :shocked:
(kidding)

[Akasha]

Actually I think youve put a few pounds on Akasha.... :shocked:
(kidding)

Ha - cheeky bugger!

What was it SJP said, 'it's a good job you buggered off to Canada'!
Someday I'll come and get ya - and I won't be alone mwahahaha!!!

[DCPan]

Hmm...D'Artagnan, you posted that link on purpose not to show us kendo, but to make us envious didn't ya? :smoker:

Hmm...what's the counter term for rich-boy show-off...pretty-girl show-off :rolleyes: ?

All in fun! :rolleyes:

[Andoru]

hopefully i have managed to correctly attach a snapshot from that bout...

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery...051&uid=2300818

I hope it worked???

Forget kendo, check out Kim. Oh, my. :cool: Indeed! What a hottie! Oops off topic....

Kim3
This is not Kendo!!!

Kim2
If you are from Kendo World, Get back to the Kendo Pics!!! - D'Artagnan
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! :D

[kendokamax]

ya i did practice with hachidan . My teacher at budai was one and he was really amazing.

but he was like 55-60 years old.

Not all of them are super human either. I saw some hachidan that really had weird kendo, hiting you in the elbow, nowhere near a good target etc...what the?

Anyway at 80 they might have good center and theory, but the age gets by you.

[kendokamax]

sorry for the double post!!

hmm..

I played a few.

Makita (my teacher from budai, the guy who got 2nd place in 50th anniversary hachidan taikai) his kendo was totaly amazing , and it was very beautifull. very straight no fear of going men, I fought him a few times. I really couldnt get anything at him, and he was attacking me almost freely when my feets were frozen. I have a lot of respect for that person and his kendo.

Kobayashi (coach of japanese team, and teacher at kanagawa police(miyazaki :D). That guy I found is kendo quite boring. Ya he was good, ya I couldnt do anything against him, but he was never attacking at all! super defensive. I also saw a tape of him in one tournament, he was sooo defensive! Actually I did my last keiko in japan against him, he explained me how to hit men properly ..he is a very good teacher and amazingly kind. but boring kendo.

Then 2 at tokyo police , one was nice, an other one, he was trying to hurt me because I did something that had offended him a little bit. (all good..)

Miyazawa (he got 2nd place to hachi dan tournament this year, from miyagi) That guy totaly amazed me, he kinda had a weird kamae but he could get the right moment so well (beautifull men)!! He was totaly kicking the ass of everyone (a lot of very good 30-40 years old, 5th-6th dan) going against him expect one guy, sato mitsunobu (one of his old student when he was high school teacher), that was the only fight that seemed a litte fair. There was something so strong about his kendo.

Then an other hachidan who was plain bad. I mean his kendo was not good looking and he was just playing as he was pissed off. (against everyone he was doing keiko with)


What I mean is that even thought for hachidan there is high standarts, there is some of them (only a few, but still) that are disapointing. And the amazing ones, are now 50-65 years old. At 80 , they will still control the center and you wont be able to hit men on them just by jumping in, but their kendo will be way more deffensive and only responding to your attacks.

Not even talking about 7dan. There is plently of bad nanadan in japan. I guess lot of these guys got their high grade because of politics in kendo?

happy kendo !

[Marine_Boy]

Nice photos, but I don't care if it's male or female. If they are armed with a shinai and in bogu. I'll fence them all the same.

[KhawMengLee]

Kim, A.K.A. Akasha, my partner. Who is currently sat with me grinning like a cheshire cat...

Thanks to Flashman and Shazzanzz...

Hahaha...wait, not the girl with the funny socks at Lidstone Competition last year?

[KhawMengLee]

Nice photos, but I don't care if it's male or female. If they are armed with a shinai and in bogu. I'll fence them all the same.


Come back to Hong Kong Stan...my shinai is thirsting for your MEN...hehhehehee

[Marine_Boy]

Come back to Hong Kong Stan...my shinai is thirsting for your MEN...hehhehehee


Hey Yama-san! Long time no see!

Is that what you say to all the boys in HK then?:wink:

How are things out there at the moment? Enjoying your work? But most importantly, how's the food?

Oh I so long for a large plate of roast pigeon all to myself... :lick:

I'm planning a trip to Japan in a year or so time. If you're still in Hk, I'll visit.

Until then, your "shinai" will have to thirst for some more...

[KhawMengLee]

Hey Yama-san! Long time no see!

Is that what you say to all the boys in HK then?:wink:

How are things out there at the moment? Enjoying your work? But most importantly, how's the food?

Oh I so long for a large plate of roast pigeon all to myself... :lick:

I'm planning a trip to Japan in a year or so time. If you're still in Hk, I'll visit.

Until then, your "shinai" will have to thirst for some more...

Yup, will still be here...hahaha....just ate roast pidgeon(to other readers, they are nothing like those filthy air rats in UK) in Fo Tan last week.

[Akasha]

Hahaha...wait, not the girl with the funny socks at Lidstone Competition last year?What do you mean funny socks? I didn't fence at the Lidstone this year.
But I confess, I was there. Why? :down: And you are?

[KhawMengLee]

What do you mean funny socks? I didn't fence at the Lidstone this year.
But I confess, I was there. Why? :down: And you are?

Erm...kendoka number 5 in the competition. You know the chinese guy who bowled over the other guy and sent him sliding out of the shiai area.

Erm...went along to the grading the next day too...

Funny socks...if I remember correctly it was a rainbow coloured pair...very distracting...bright colour stand out from the usual London grey...hahaha

[Marine_Boy]

Erm...kendoka number 5 in the competition. You know the chinese guy who bowled over the other guy and sent him sliding out of the shiai area.

Erm...went along to the grading the next day too...

Funny socks...if I remember correctly it was a rainbow coloured pair...very distracting...bright colour stand out from the usual London grey...hahaha

Hey, that wasn't the same day I was grading aswell was it?

I don't remember any dodgy looking socks though.

[Akasha]

Erm...kendoka number 5 in the competition. You know the chinese guy who bowled over the other guy and sent him sliding out of the shiai area.

Erm...went along to the grading the next day too...

Funny socks...if I remember correctly it was a rainbow coloured pair...very distracting...bright colour stand out from the usual London grey...hahaha
Ah, yes that would be me. :nervous: Hi!

[KhawMengLee]

Hey, that wasn't the same day I was grading aswell was it?

I don't remember any dodgy looking socks though.

Not at the grading man. The Taikai before it on Saturday...hehehehe. D'arts gf was wearing this funky coloured socks...you can't miss 'em


see pic below:

[Akasha]

[QUOTE=KhawMengLee]Not at the grading man. The Taikai before it on Saturday...hehehehe. D'arts gf was wearing this funky coloured socks...you can't miss 'emQUOTE]

You can't hardly see them, phew!

[KhawMengLee]

You can't hardly see them, phew!

yeh...stupid low res video capture feature camera :ogre:

[Akasha]

see pic below:
Can you tell D'Artagnan how to attach images that way please!

He may know and have just been being lazy, but refreshing his memory may be a good idea. :devious:

[KhawMengLee]

Can you tell D'Artagnan how to attach images that way please!

He may know and have just been being lazy, but refreshing his memory may be a good idea. :devious:

Its below the text box when you post a msg. but there is a qouta on the size of the .jpg file and its very small...I had to resize that picture bloody 10 times before it fit...grrr


better he use a link...and get rid of that horrid blue dou...pink is better...heheheh :wink:

[senki-kendo-jos]

Oh good, so people actually think same as me... i'm not as deluded as previously thought!!

I'm not intimidated by blokies... I just try to scare the pants off them... and at the risk of sounding sooo 1990's... GIRL POWER!!:jaguar:

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Hey - Gareth - D'artagnan

Are you guys drugging the tripe up there or what ??

(what would it take to get you to upload the rest of that reel of film ;-> )



BTW - getting back to the thread

Vai Leng is defintely a good role model for female kendoka in the UK - fast accurate & very strong spirit - in fact a very good kendo role model full stop

most wesetrn guys like to barge and shove (one guy at SFB lost by 4 consectuive hansoku for rough 'play') - most Japanese fencers move and cut

upshot - your kendo should rely on good movement & accurate cutting & it doesnt matter what age or gender you are when it comes to keiko

cheers

Phil..

[Masahiro]

Ahem! That would be me actually, nosey!

I should say thanks :wink:

Kim
DSKYK Preston

Dear D'Artagnan,

3 words. .. "you lucky bastard". .. .. :)

[D'Artagnan]

Hey - Gareth - D'artagnan

Are you guys drugging the tripe up there or what ??




Phil..


?????? :confused: ?????? what does that mean?????????


Masahiro : You lucky Bastard

Thank you very much, :cool2: A gorgeous girl, who loves Kendo!!! how great is that! The two most beautiful things in my life do not have to be seperate!!!! I AM A LUCKY BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[D'Artagnan]

Funny socks...if I remember correctly it was a rainbow coloured pair...very distracting...bright colour stand out from the usual London grey...hahaha


I think that is funny from the guy who was wearing them dainty white gloves!! :D

If i could find a Pink dou, I would Buy it INSTANTLY!!!! that would have great 'Look at ME!!!' qualities!!!Even better, a dou that matched Kim's Socks!!!!!

[KhawMengLee]

I think that is funny from the guy who was wearing them dainty white gloves!! :D

If i could find a Pink dou, I would Buy it INSTANTLY!!!! that would have great 'Look at ME!!!' qualities!!!Even better, a dou that matched Kim's Socks!!!!!

Hahah...dats my trademark! In fact ppl constantly think I'm a traffic cop :wink: ...that or a butler.

Yeah, rainbow dou...but that would be mistaken for the rainbow flag :)

[Marine_Boy]

Hahah...dats my trademark! In fact ppl constantly think I'm a traffic cop :wink: ...that or a butler.

Yeah, rainbow dou...but that would be mistaken for the rainbow flag :)

Would that be the monkey butler from the PG tip ads?

[Akasha]

Thank you very much, :cool2: A gorgeous girl, who loves Kendo!!! how great is that! The two most beautiful things in my life do not have to be seperate!!!! I AM A LUCKY BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But yet still gets nagged at for swinging shini around in the living room! Not even entering into the broken light bulbs.

Guys you're too tall now - do it outside!

[KhawMengLee]

Would that be the monkey butler from the PG tip ads?

I'd rather be the ITV Monkey hehehehe

[KhawMengLee]

But yet still gets nagged at for swinging shini around in the living room! Not even entering into the broken light bulbs.

Guys you're too tall now - do it outside!

All part of Kendo young lady :wink: I got nice long strike marks on my ceiling(I live in an Appt) from doing suburi. Have to do everything squatting down...grrrr

[Marine_Boy]

Have to do everything squatting down...grrrr

Does that include eating and crapping? :rolleyes:

[KhawMengLee]

Does that include eating and crapping? :rolleyes:

Hahahah...cheeky bugger. Maaaaaaan, the first thing I made sure is that my appt has a proper toilet...not one of those squatting thingy...which incidentally is better for you because it puts less strain and gravity does the work.

Nah, I asically move my furniture to one side and do suburi across the room with frog jumps...good exercise tho.

[MAX22]

Sorry to disturb all of u,I was fasinated by the title men vs women in kendo,and I'm quite new here.From what I think about men vs female is that both of this gender have equal advantage.Since female is not strong in physical so most of them have grace,this is important in shiai since in shiai one must be calm and move graceful to fight and while most men have strenght,so they have lest grace then the female counterpart.So when a shiai happen between to gender I believe it is up to the kendoka skill and use their advantages to the fullest.
I had shiai once with my senior who is a girl and she was pretty good and beat the crap out of me,so gender is not problem in kendo

[Swissv2]

Female's Kiai are funny, IMO.
http://www.kendo-world.com/downloads/video/2003%20AJWKC%20finals.wmv
They sound like a mix of a squeak and a high pitched squeal. If a female Kiai'd at me I would be giggling, sorry. :D

As for their ability vs a guys, I would have to say it can become pretty even there. Though they might not have as explosive movement as a male, they certainly can have great reaction and timing.

[Fenix]

Female's Kiai are funny, IMO.
http://www.kendo-world.com/downloads/video/2003%20AJWKC%20finals.wmv
They sound like a mix of a squeak and a high pitched squeal. If a female Kiai'd at me I would be giggling, sorry.
Some girls have crazy kiai's...they're vicious...i'd be scared to face them lol

[MAX22]

true,thier kiai are loud,high pitch,and eardrum breaking.

My senior had this kiai even I would tremble standing in front of her.

[KhawMengLee]

true,thier kiai are loud,high pitch,and eardrum breaking.

My senior had this kiai even I would tremble standing in front of her.

This wouldn't be a certain member of the Malaysian women's team would it?

[neokensei]

My two cents on the topic:

In my experience, I tend to become a bit 'careful'/'cautious' when fighting against women. This probably arose when, during a shiai, I pushed...err...rather hard against my female opponent and...err...caused her to stagger backwards and...fall to the floor. :confused2
I actually recall raising my hands and stepping quickly backwards to indicate that it was unintentional...but still...I knocked her down (not that she was small or anything...she was quite...err...robust...but still...).

So I'm curious....are guys, in general, more...conscious (?) of how they fight when paired against women? Or is it just me? :cool:

[Neil Gendzwill]

People hit the turf all the time in shiai. If it was a clean hit from an attack and you weren't intending rough play why should you be concerned, other than to make sure she's OK? I'm sure she doesn't want any special consideration or babying, otherwise she'd wouldn't be entering shiai.

[Old Warrior]

Gender is irrelevant, the degree of their skill is all that matters. In addition, if your skill level is low and you go about whacking me on the elbows, shoulders etc., you can expect that I will give you the best I have without modulation for your lesser rank/skill.

[webjunkie401]

In my experience, women can make up for any percieved disadvantages.

Truly, which is more important, skill or strength.

Gender has no affect on determination, and will.

Also, I have known both women and men that have been strong, weak, fast, slow, graceful, and as clumsy as a drunken clown.

If anyone has the will to step out onto the dojo floor, then they deserve to be treated like the kenshi they are. Everyone knows the risk of shiai, and ji-geiko, but if you knock someone down, make sure they're alright, and then keep on going.

[MAX22]

The idea of gender in martial arts is crap.It is the same as two fighter from two different martial art fighting each other and claiming thier martial arts is better then the other person.I believe there is no such thing as what school u learned ,ur height,weight that make u superior but rather depends on how u apply ur technique and ur skill.
And KhawMengLee ur a malaysian is it?

[kanyil]

umm....how do I broach this subject....

girls, do strong tai-ataris bother you? some females I fenced do not bring their arms into the proper position when going into tsubazeriai, thus resulting in my kote (and body weight) slamming into their doh...

our sensei's very strict on having the correct form for tai-atari (almost straight arms, almost locked elbows and wrists, aim at the center of torso etc).

given the anatomical differences, I take it this kind of tai-atari would be almost as painful as a tamago-uchi?