Why do people hate Americans???

[Ignatz]

If you were Muslim in the USA these days, would you want to be publicly standing out in that way?

Ahh, exactly my point! Does fear of reprisal overcome religious zeal? What happened to "We will not accept less than severing the heads of those responsible"? The Danish prime minister said there could be "unpredictable repercussions" if the protests escalate. It seems that everybody is pretty certain that the consequences in NYC would be anything but unpredictable.

[Phil-co]

What I think is food for thought is that when there were airplanes flying into buildings, bombs going off in the trains in Spain, and in London that there was no uproar from the "Muslim" community.

Now when someone is making a statement about this condonement or use of violence for the religions' sake, in a cartoon for crying out loud. Now the whole (it seems) or at least the loudest exponents of the "Muslim" community is rioting and reverting to violence again. I think that this attitude is what's bothering levelheaded people all over the world.

We had Jesus Christ sing and dance in a musical, we had Monty Python making fun of him in a movie. I even saw funny commercials about Buddhist Priests in Japan and nobody ever made such a fuzz about it. What is the world becoming to?:( It's not just a cartoon, it's a cartoon that is making fun of the prophet Mohammad, and portraying him as a terrorist. The cartoons, and I have seen them, are not funny at all - they are discriminating and patronizing, and they are made in a Denmark which is becoming more and more racist (The Danish People's Party led by Pia Kjersgaard, an openly racist party, now has about 15-20% of the votes). It is clearly an attempt to push the limits, to aggrevate the Muslim population. Unfortunately, the plan backfired, when the Danish population realized that they were economically dependent of the Muslim countries, but not the other way around.

That aside, I can't believe that you are not able to see it from the Muslim point of view. The cartoons are offending, and shouldn't have been printed. Just because you have free speech, or free press, or whatever you want to call it, doesn't mean that you *have to* say or press everything. With it, comes great responsibilities. For example, in the -30's and -40's, caricatures of Jews were popular in Europe. The Jews were portrayed in a 'comic' way, as egotistical bank managers with big noses, and all that jazz. Was that funny? No. It certainly wasn't, because many Jews were offended by this. And now, in my country anyway, it's illegal to print those kind of caricatures. But when something happens to Muslims, peple tend to think: 'Ah, come on, lighten up! It's just a joke'. Then so is the trade embargo on Denmark that is currently in play. Isn't that funny?

Just something to think about.

[h2o]

It's not just a cartoon, it's a cartoon that is making fun of the prophet Mohammad, and portraying him as a terrorist. The cartoons, and I have seen them, are not funny at all - they are discriminating and patronizing, and they are made in a Denmark which is becoming more and more racist (The Danish People's Party led by Pia Kjersgaard, an openly racist party, now has about 15-20% of the votes). It is clearly an attempt to push the limits, to aggrevate the Muslim population. Unfortunately, the plan backfired, when the Danish population realized that they were economically dependent of the Muslim countries, but not the other way around.

That aside, I can't believe that you are not able to see it from the Muslim point of view. The cartoons are offending, and shouldn't have been printed. Just because you have free speech, or free press, or whatever you want to call it, doesn't mean that you *have to* say or press everything. With it, comes great responsibilities. For example, in the -30's and -40's, caricatures of Jews were popular in Europe. The Jews were portrayed in a 'comic' way, as egotistical bank managers with big noses, and all that jazz. Was that funny? No. It certainly wasn't, because many Jews were offended by this. And now, in my country anyway, it's illegal to print those kind of caricatures. But when something happens to Muslims, peple tend to think: 'Ah, come on, lighten up! It's just a joke'. Then so is the trade embargo on Denmark that is currently in play. Isn't that funny?

Just something to think about.
And I totally agree. Nicely written.

[Ignatz]

I understand that, for reasons that are not really relevant to this issue, it is considered a bad thing in Islam to make images of the prophet. The newspaper in Denmark published some cartoons that depicted the prophet. I saw them and they were not particularly funny nor were they meant to be, it was intended to be a political comment. Because of the violation of the laws of Islam tens of thousands of muslims are rioting in the streets literally calling for the head and hands of the cartoonist.

I also understand that a central tenet of Islam is peace and the murder of more thasn 3,000 innocent people in NYC is a rather serious violation of the laws of Islam. Fonz points out that there were no demonstrations against the actions of the murderers. These holy people have not brought in the perpetrators of that horrible crime and have not risen up en masse against the criminals who did it.

So which is the worse violation of the laws of Islam, making a cartoon of the Prophet or murdereing 3,000 innocent people?

You cannot have it both ways. You want the world to respect you? Bring in BinLaden and everyone that helped him. Tell the world that these people do not represent you.

[Fonsz]

I also understand that a central tenet of Islam is peace and the murder of more thasn 3,000 innocent people in NYC is a rather serious violation of the laws of Islam. Fonz points out that there were no demonstrations against the actions of the murderers. These holy people have not brought in the perpetrators of that horrible crime and have not risen up en masse against the criminals who did it.

So which is the worse violation of the laws of Islam, making a cartoon of the Prophet or murdereing 3,000 innocent people?

You cannot have it both ways. You want the world to respect you? Bring in BinLaden and everyone that helped him. Tell the world that these people do not represent you.
Thank you counciller, the cheque is on its way for representing me and my thoughts so eloquently. That was excactly what I meant.

[Phil-co]

I understand that, for reasons that are not really relevant to this issue, it is considered a bad thing in Islam to make images of the prophet. The newspaper in Denmark published some cartoons that depicted the prophet. I saw them and they were not particularly funny nor were they meant to be, it was intended to be a political comment. Because of the violation of the laws of Islam tens of thousands of muslims are rioting in the streets literally calling for the head and hands of the cartoonist.

I also understand that a central tenet of Islam is peace and the murder of more thasn 3,000 innocent people in NYC is a rather serious violation of the laws of Islam. Fonz points out that there were no demonstrations against the actions of the murderers. These holy people have not brought in the perpetrators of that horrible crime and have not risen up en masse against the criminals who did it.

So which is the worse violation of the laws of Islam, making a cartoon of the Prophet or murdereing 3,000 innocent people?

You cannot have it both ways. You want the world to respect you? Bring in BinLaden and everyone that helped him. Tell the world that these people do not represent you. My post was aimed against Fonsz's belief that it was only a cartoon, no need to get upset. I'd say there was a need to get upset. Comparing september 11 and this mockery of the Muslim faith is illogical. What I am trying to say is that this was perceived as kicking those already lying down, it's another Muslim bashing that went full scale after september 11.

Why is it illogical to compare the two events? Because, even if I don't agree with say president Bush's view on Christianity, and think he stands for a perverted view that isn't Christian whatsoever, doesn't mean I have to rally lots of people to defend Christianity. I don't think he's Christian, so I will leave it at that (just an example, I'm not Christian, and this is not about Bush). The same with the Muslims. Just because the western countries believe that all Muslims are terrorists, doesn't mean that it is so. For most Muslims, the terrorists that killed innocents at september 11 was not Muslims, they have nothing to do with Islam.

The caricatures of the prophet, however, was an insult aimed directly at the Muslims, hence the reaction. If one wish to understand this, one has to understand the feeling of many Muslims of the constant oppression from the west. This was just the straw that broke the camel's back. It wouldn't had caused so much troubles if another Muslim country's 'paper was the one that started this, but since it's a western country, it's a much harder slap in the face. Inconsistent or not, this is the way most things work. I can critizise my own parents, but should you do it, it's much worse. For me, anyway.

Furthermore - comparing the two events is like saying 'the Germans critizise the government of the US. How can they do that? They didn't protest against Hitler, so they should be quiet now.' You have to analyze each event as an event in it's own, even though it can have connections to other events.

So you think it's up to the Muslims to get the trust from the rest of the world? Then maybe we should do the same. Are we trying to change the image of us that e.g. the Israeli has gotten us? The Americans? The Soviets? No, we are saying 'we are the good guys, you are bad guys, prove us wrong'. No, we don't have terrorists bombing their homes, we have imperialistic state-terrorism instead. So as to answer your question with another question; which is worse - imperialistic (Christian) state-terrorism, or (Muslim) terrorist bombings?

[Ignatz]

My post was aimed against Fonsz's belief that it was only a cartoon, no need to get upset. I'd say there was a need to get upset. Comparing september 11 and this mockery of the Muslim faith is illogical. What I am trying to say is that this was perceived as kicking those already lying down, it's another Muslim bashing that went full scale after september 11.
. . .
For most Muslims, the terrorists that killed innocents at september 11 was not Muslims, they have nothing to do with Islam. . . .

The caricatures of the prophet, however, was an insult aimed directly at the Muslims, hence the reaction. If one wish to understand this, one has to understand the feeling of many Muslims of the constant oppression from the west. . . .

So as to answer your question with another question; which is worse - imperialistic (Christian) state-terrorism, or (Muslim) terrorist bombings?

The host will not allow a one word answer. If it would, I would say,

Bullshit.

[Fonsz]

My post was aimed against Fonsz's belief that it was only a cartoon, no need to get upset. I'd say there was a need to get upset.
That's where I will agree to disagree, I think it is overreacted but you think I'm wrong. I have been wrong before. But I'm not religious so I also have no clue why someone should think that sacrilege is worse than taking a life. I personally think that a human life is the most sacred thing on Earth. But apparently this view is wrong when you're very religious. It is ok to take a life when sacrilege is commited, is what I distill here.


Furthermore - comparing the two events is like saying 'the Germans critizise the government of the US. How can they do that? They didn't protest against Hitler, so they should be quiet now.' You have to analyze each event as an event in it's own, even though it can have connections to other events.
I think that the Germans have shown more insight and did much more penance for what they did during the war. If I have to analyze every single event as it is then I stand my ground at the lack of disapproval of the bombings of civilians by any Muslim representative in the news or something.



No, we are saying 'we are the good guys, you are bad guys, prove us wrong'. No, we don't have terrorists bombing their homes, we have imperialistic state-terrorism instead. So as to answer your question with another question; which is worse - imperialistic (Christian) state-terrorism, or (Muslim) terrorist bombings?
I never claimed that we are the good guys and if I gave that impression than that was not my intention. I'm no Christian either so I think they are both equally wrong. I don't care for Bush and his conservative crew who are alienating the world as it is. It's us and them I always like to think it's "WE". We all live on this world, we all breath the same air and if a cartoon is the cause for world disturbances than obviously I don't understand the world anymore.:confused:

[Phil-co]

The host will not allow a one word answer. If it would, I would say,

Bullshit.
That was impressive! That was your best argument yet.

[Phil-co]

That's where I will agree to disagree, I think it is overreacted but you think I'm wrong. I have been wrong before. But I'm not religious so I also have no clue why someone should think that sacrilege is worse than taking a life. I personally think that a human life is the most sacred thing on Earth. But apparently this view is wrong when you're very religious. It is ok to take a life when sacrilege is commited, is what I distill here. Nobody here is saying that taking a life is alright. Some militant Muslims do want the death of the caricaturists (is that a word?). That, I don't condone. The problem is, I believe, is that you seem to think that all Muslims are like that. The Muslims I've heard of are talking about an excuse from the newspaper 'Jyllands-Posten', nothing else. And I think that is a fair deal. Furthermore, the Danish prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, refused to meet with 11 diplomats from the Arabic countries some months ago when the caricatures was printed. He just waved them off, which is an insult in itself. Based on all this, I can't possibly be on Denmark's side (even though I live 30 minutes from Copenhagen)

The reason many people see this as an terrible act, is that if you believe in Mohammad as a prophet than that is much larger than life. I'm an atheist, and I can still understand that. To mock the very symbol of your belief, your identity, your life, is serious.

[Ignatz]

That was impressive! That was your best argument yet.

Yes it does describe your post rather well doesn't it?


Why is it illogical to compare the two events? Because, even if I don't agree with say president Bush's view on Christianity, and think he stands for a perverted view that isn't Christian whatsoever, doesn't mean I have to rally lots of people to defend Christianity.

Please explain what Bush's view on christianity has to do with the murder of 3000 innocents. I think it is pretty clear as to my stand on the invasion of Iraq but are you suggesting that is this some kind of Crusade? Last I heard the Sunni Muslims were murdering the Shiite Muslims not the Lutherans.
Your statement is absolute, unadulterated bullshit.


For most Muslims, the terrorists that killed innocents at september 11 was not Muslims, they have nothing to do with Islam.

I see, they were just bunch of guys who, quite by chance, happened to be Muslims.
I have heard your statement many times before and it is the biggest pile of bullshit of them all. If they have nothing to do with Islam, condemn them. In your entire diatribe you have not. Sorry Mr. Sweden, no neutrality here, you condemn terrorism or you support it and this "Imperialist state supported terrorism" is bullshit too.


It wouldn't had caused so much troubles if another Muslim country's 'paper was the one that started this, but since it's a western country, it's a much harder slap in the face.

OK, explain Jordan. Ooops, they are Sunni Muslims so maybe that doesn't count. Bullshit.


Furthermore - comparing the two events is like saying 'the Germans critizise the government of the US. How can they do that? They didn't protest against Hitler, so they should be quiet now.'

We have a winner of the most ridiculous metaphor contest. Comparing the two events is nothing at all like that. Just a typical bullshit attempt at the rhetorical device of changing the subject and making this a discussion about Germany. This has nothing to do with Germany. This has only to do with a bunch of Lutherans screaming Allah Akbar and murdering 3000 innocents.


Are we trying to change the image of us that e.g. the Israeli has gotten us? The Americans? The Soviets?No, we are saying 'we are the good guys, you are bad guys, prove us wrong'. No, we don't have terrorists bombing their homes, we have imperialistic state-terrorism instead. So as to answer your question with another question; which is worse - imperialistic (Christian) state-terrorism, or (Muslim) terrorist bombings?

That sounds exactly like the argument the supporters of the (according to you) non-muslim murderers make.

In conclusion I must say again that I am sorry that I could not make a one word post of Bullshit because that would have been the best argument yet.

[Phil-co]

Yes it does describe your post rather well doesn't it? From your point of view, yes it does. Your point of view is not worth much, but still. I am actually beginning to like you. You got spirit at least, you little rascal.


Please explain what Bush's view on christianity has to do with the murder of 3000 innocents. I think it is pretty clear as to my stand on the invasion of Iraq but are you suggesting that is this some kind of Crusade? Last I heard the Sunni Muslims were murdering the Shiite Muslims not the Lutherans.
Your statement is absolute, unadulterated bullshit. How many people around the world are murdered by the Bush government? Oh, too many? You lost count, you say? Well, I forgive you, I'm no mathematician either. however, it was not my meaning to be Bush-bashing - I was just using him as an example of how one can spin the truth, if one would want to.


I see, they were just bunch of guys who, quite by chance, happened to be Muslims. They were as much Muslims as I am an American. Again, just because you say it, doesn't mean it is so.


I have heard your statement many times before and it is the biggest pile of bullshit of them all. If they have nothing to do with Islam, condemn them. In your entire diatribe you have not. Sorry Mr. Sweden, no neutrality here, you condemn terrorism or you support it and this "Imperialist state supported terrorism" is bullshit too. Mr. Sweden? I kind of like that. I think I will put it in my presentation. Anyway, they have been condemned by the Muslim world. Where have you been? Or, rather, which media have you been listening to? I too, condemn the suicide-bombers whole-heartedly, don't get me wrong on that one. But when will you start giving credit to where it's due? Tell me, are all Muslims terrorists? Are all Muslims condoning september 11? Did a Muslim hit you when you were a child? And why is imperialist state supported terrorism bullshit? Is the state imperialist? Yes. Does it use terror to frighten other people? Yes. What am I missing? That it is bullshit? Strange, I never learned the bullshit-argument in my classes in pol. science at the university. Can I try it? What you say is... bullshit. How was that?


OK, explain Jordan. Ooops, they are Sunni Muslims so maybe that doesn't count. Bullshit. Huh? It's worse when a non-Muslim country critizise Islam. What are you getting at?


We have a winner of the most ridiculous metaphor contest. Comparing the two events is nothing at all like that. "Mom, make him stop! Philco is using metaphors, and, and... well, I don't like them". Comparing the two events is valid. Just as valid as comparing sept. 11 with caricatures in the Danish Press.


Just a typical bullshit attempt at the rhetorical device of changing the subject and making this a discussion about Germany. This has nothing to do with Germany. This has only to do with a bunch of Lutherans screaming Allah Akbar and murdering 3000 innocents. Aha! It has nothing to do with someone murdering innocents at all, it has to do with demonstrations against caricatures of Mohammad in particularly the Danish press. I was pointing out how serious that was. You better lay off the ganja from now on, miss Ignatz. Fonsz replied to me, and I later replied to him. You are just... well, I don't know exactly what you are doing, but it sure makes my day nice and shiny. Did you like that metaphor?


In conclusion I must say again that I am sorry that I could not make a one word post of Bullshit because that would have been the best argument yet. I can't disagree with you there.

Peace out, my American friend. Or, as we say in swedish, fred ut.

[Ignatz]

Sorry, I didn't realize that this was a personal thread between you and Fonz. I must say that I adore the little ganja and miss ignatz thing, nothing like a little ad hominum to buck up an otherwise stellar presentation. A pot smoking woman, wow. Sounds like a muslim insult. Well, I've got to put my panties and bra on and roll me a nice spliff.

[Phil-co]

Sorry, I didn't realize that this was a personal thread between you and Fonz. I must say that I adore the little ganja and miss ignatz thing, nothing like a little ad hominum to buck up an otherwise stellar presentation. A pot smoking woman, wow. Sounds like a muslim insult. Well, I've got to put my panties and bra on and roll me a nice spliff.
No, that was my bad. I actually thought you were a woman. The ganja, however, was an insult. Glad you took it well.

[Fonsz]

Nobody here is saying that taking a life is alright. Some militant Muslims do want the death of the caricaturists (is that a word?). That, I don't condone. The problem is, I believe, is that you seem to think that all Muslims are like that. I guess that you are seeing things that I never meant or that I'm not clear. I think I said something about the loudest exponents of the Muslim community. But I also said that I haven't heard about them when there crimes and acts of war committed by fanatics. Who are using their religion as a vehicle for their actions to sow hate and division in the world.


The Muslims I've heard of are talking about an excuse from the newspaper 'Jyllands-Posten', nothing else. And I think that is a fair deal. Furthermore, the Danish prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, refused to meet with 11 diplomats from the Arabic countries some months ago when the caricatures was printed. He just waved them off, which is an insult in itself. Based on all this, I can't possibly be on Denmark's side (even though I live 30 minutes from Copenhagen) Last I heard is that the newspaper has said that they are sorry that Muslims all over the world are not happy with the situation. But apparently that's not enough heads will have to roll, blood has to be spilt. I have seen some of the cartoons and I think it's funny when Mohammed says to guys with smoking clothes coming at the gates of heaven. "You better stop because we are running out of virgins" or something. It's in my opinion trying to say to the world that the foolishness has to stop and if it can be disarmed with a joke than that's the best.


The reason many people see this as an terrible act, is that if you believe in Mohammad as a prophet than that is much larger than life. I'm an atheist, and I can still understand that. To mock the very symbol of your belief, your identity, your life, is serious. I'm an atheist as well and I can understand it as well but attacking everything that is vaguely connected with Denmark is typical of a lynch mob they want blood and it doesn't matter from whom.
By the way I resent the way that you encountered Ignatz. His posts are my sentiments exactly. I saw in your profile that you're a History student. You of all people should know that there's always a flip side to a coin and that the truth is always in the middle. Your attempt at humor was also not very well.:puzzled::ermm:

[samurai999]

It's not just a cartoon, it's a cartoon that is making fun of the prophet Mohammad, and portraying him as a terrorist. The cartoons, and I have seen them, are not funny at all - they are discriminating and patronizing, and they are made in a Denmark which is becoming more and more racist (The Danish People's Party led by Pia Kjersgaard, an openly racist party, now has about 15-20% of the votes). It is clearly an attempt to push the limits, to aggrevate the Muslim population. Unfortunately, the plan backfired, when the Danish population realized that they were economically dependent of the Muslim countries, but not the other way around.

That aside, I can't believe that you are not able to see it from the Muslim point of view. The cartoons are offending, and shouldn't have been printed. Just because you have free speech, or free press, or whatever you want to call it, doesn't mean that you *have to* say or press everything. With it, comes great responsibilities. For example, in the -30's and -40's, caricatures of Jews were popular in Europe. The Jews were portrayed in a 'comic' way, as egotistical bank managers with big noses, and all that jazz. Was that funny? No. It certainly wasn't, because many Jews were offended by this. And now, in my country anyway, it's illegal to print those kind of caricatures. But when something happens to Muslims, peple tend to think: 'Ah, come on, lighten up! It's just a joke'. Then so is the trade embargo on Denmark that is currently in play. Isn't that funny?

Just something to think about.

You are absolutely correct that it is offensive and insensitive, but that still doesn't give them the right to torch buildings, form lynch mobs and riot in the streets destroying things. Its the equivalent of them being "held back by the man and we're not taking it anymore". The Japanese-Americans were put into internment camps and they complained, did formal protests and the like. Did you ever see them storm buildings, form lynch mobs of supporters, etc. They got their form of revenge and look what happened. They got a FULL presidential pardon (either from Reagan or Bush Sr.) and got damage reparations back from that era. Point is, there are other ways and avenues to express dislike for something and this for a damn cartoon for Heavens sake... For fanatics like this, if you give them an inch (or 2.54cm) they take a mile (or ____ km).

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/02/04/international/i083730S01.DTL

Tim

[Bear of Doom]

If the Muslim countries wish to be respected for their human rights then by all means they need to liberalise. There are tons of jokes made upon Christianity, and I haven't seen a whole street went up in riot? Sometimes you have to take things in the context of their intentions ... the comic was a joke and meant to be funny (as well as making a statement), in which I find it to be. If there are people who do not find so then that is just too bad (phil-co), you have to realise people have different tastes, and humour is no exception.

In Islam a man is allowed to take four wives, do I see an equality for women? Do I see people being able to freely express their opinions? Do I see people having fun and drinking God's greatest gift ... alcohol?! (well actually ... nobody really listen to that crap do they)

Don't even get me started on Islam, you don't want to hear my opinion ... it could end nasty, it'd be even worse than my Indian jokes performance, and I'd get kicked out for good. However, whoever is interested in my theory of how the 'prophet' Muhammed started Islam: PM me ^^ because I am aware that it is a rather sensitive issue and do not wish to offend any muslims in our KW community.

Haha, but of course these are my feelings towards strict Islam countries and their governments. Actually its the fanatical leaders ain't it? Because the moderate ones such as Malaysia etc. are rather normal, just like anyone of us (with minor differences and uniqueness). There are plenty of nice Muslims in the world, and I have many friends who are Muslims ... and trust me they're not very fond of the Muslims in the Middle East for, according to them, represent a negative image of Islam. So it all depends ... everything is relative. But from them (yes I've been discussing these issues with them) they think that the reason for other Muslims not coming out and publicly condemning such acts as the 9/11 is because they are afraid. As simple as that. They don't want any trouble with the mad Muslims; for all they know it could jeopardised the security and peace within their own countries. Because they will bomb their 'fellow' Muslims; the fanatics are bastards, take a look at the Bali bombing ... Indonesia is a Muslim country, even though the target were tourists, the killed innocents were suppose to die for their belief and become matyrs without knowing? Funny ... I've always thought matyrs were voluntary.

[Hisham]

If the Muslim countries wish to be respected for their human rights then by all means they need to liberalise. There are tons of jokes made upon Christianity, and I haven't seen a whole street went up in riot? Sometimes you have to take things in the context of their intentions ... the comic was a joke and meant to be funny (as well as making a statement), in which I find it to be. If there are people who do not find so then that is just too bad (phil-co), you have to realise people have different tastes, and humour is no exception.

In Islam a man is allowed to take four wives, do I see an equality for women? Do I see people being able to freely express their opinions? Do I see people having fun and drinking God's greatest gift ... alcohol?! (well actually ... nobody really listen to that crap do they)

Don't even get me started on Islam, you don't want to hear my opinion ... it could end nasty, it'd be even worse than my Indian jokes performance, and I'd get kicked out for good. However, whoever is interested in my theory of how the 'prophet' Muhammed started Islam: PM me ^^ because I am aware that it is a rather sensitive issue and do not wish to offend any muslims in our KW community.

"don't even get me started on islam" who are you to say that, did you graduate in islamic studies, i wouldn't think so.
Get your facts right my friend and give matters there due investigation because you haven't even began to scratch the surface. It's as if you just touched a shinai and one second after you started claiming to understand all its mechanics which is obviously ridiculous.
As far as offending is concerned i think it's not a suprise coming from you, i hope that kendo will temper that part of your nature.


Haha, but of course these are my feelings towards strict Islam countries and their governments. Actually its the fanatical leaders ain't it? Because the moderate ones such as Malaysia etc. are rather normal, just like anyone of us (with minor differences and uniqueness). There are plenty of nice Muslims in the world, and I have many friends who are Muslims ... and trust me they're not very fond of the Muslims in the Middle East for, according to them, represent a negative image of Islam. So it all depends ... everything is relative. But from them (yes I've been discussing these issues with them) they think that the reason for other Muslims not coming out and publicly condemning such acts as the 9/11 is because they are afraid. As simple as that. They don't want any trouble with the mad Muslims; for all they know it could jeopardised the security and peace within their own countries. Because they will bomb their 'fellow' Muslims; the fanatics are bastards, take a look at the Bali bombing ... Indonesia is a Muslim country, even though the target were tourists, the killed innocents were suppose to die for their belief and become matyrs without knowing? Funny ... I've always thought matyrs were voluntary.

You just answered much of what you wrote in the first paragraph, do you have some kind of a double personality?

The extreme behaviours come from humiliation, ignorance, discrimination ....etc which effects got multiplied after that godamned 9/11 which unofficially gave the green light for anybody who's got issues to harrass muslims indiscriminately and complete the vicious circle which in turn serves the agenda of extremists from either side of the fence. The riot is the danish comunity's problem as was the french one, what are you suggesting to deal with it, get rid of all the muslims? I bet many are thinking about that. The americans of japanese descent didn't riot, it's to there credit,but not everybody reacts the same way for obvious and less obvious reasons, take for instance the riots of americans of black african descent. Why did the latter react that way? plus you have to take to account that many demonstrations start peacefully but end violently, Ireland can be an example two.

[Maro]

There were plenty of Militant Catholics and Protestants in NI that were violent.

Funnily enough, they were thought of as "Good Old Boys" in the USA.

[Maro]

There is plenty of criticism from Muslims, you just need to look for it:


The Sunday Times February 05, 2006
Muslims tell Yard to charge protesters

Abul Taher and David Leppard
http://images.thetimes.co.uk/images/trans.gif BRITAIN’s leading Islamic body yesterday called on Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, to press charges against the extremists behind last week’s inflammatory protests in London over the “blasphemous” cartoons of the prophet Muhammad. This weekend bitter protests continued across the Muslim world with hundreds of demonstrators storming the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus, Syria, setting fire to them both.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/images/white.gifhttp://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,89474,00.gifNI_MPU('middle');http://ad.uk.doubleclick.net/viewad/720796/NEWS_iweather_300x250.gif (http://ad.uk.doubleclick.net/click;h=v5%7C3384%7C0%7C0%7C%2a%7Ct;23731957;0-0;0;6993314;4307-300%7C250;13422865%7C13440761%7C1;;%7Esscs=%3fhttp ://theweather.news.com.au)Police fired tear gas and water cannons, but protesters shouting “Allahu Akbar,” or God is great, broke through. The crowd then moved towards the French embassy where hundreds of Syrian policemen and soldiers tried to head them off by blocking roads.
In London, Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) said the extremists should be prosecuted. “The Metropolitan police should now consider all the evidence they have gathered from the protests to see if they can prosecute the extremists,” he said.
“It is time the police acted, but in a way so as not to make them martyrs of the Prophet’s cause, which is what they want, but as criminals. Ordinary Muslims are fed up with them.”
The council, a moderate umbrella group, was speaking after the demonstration last Friday in which some protesters chanted the name of Osama Bin Laden and “You must pay, 7/7 is on its way” — a reference to the London suicide bombings.
Five hundred demonstrators brandished placards, including ones proclaiming “Behead the one who insults the Prophet”, “Down, down UK” and “Freedom go to hell”.
Bunglawala said: “Lots of innocent Muslims went to the demonstration not realising that it was organised by extremists. They were hijacked by them.”
Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the council’s secretary-general, said: “We cannot have double standards, so therefore any breach of the law should be looked at by the police and investigated.
“The cartoons have offended every Muslim and the anger of Muslims has to be lawfully expressed. However, this outrage was used by some to induce Muslims into taking part in terrorist violence. We condemn their actions.”

[Ignatz]

There were plenty of Militant Catholics and Protestants in NI that were violent.

Funnily enough, they were thought of as "Good Old Boys" in the USA.

And many people declined membership in the AOH (the real one) myself included. As we now know the situation in Ireland degenerated to the point that the radicals on both sides were nothing more than a bunch of gangsters. So you will get no argument from me. I have stood up many times and condemned the violence by both sides. To think that if a Catholic guy dated a Protestant girl (or vice versa) somebody from one of the groups would bomb their house is disgusting.
This is the point I think that Fonz made origninally that there were no 10,000 screaming demonstrators shouting "death to the murderers of innocents". Sure, there were mullah here and there saying "Islam is not about that" but the demonstrations were "Death to America"
We need to get all of these people playing kendo
"World Peace Through Kendo, Don't Be an A-hole"

[Ignatz]

P.S. my little buddy Mr. Bear is trying not to be offensive, please give him credit.

[Bear of Doom]

"don't even get me started on islam" who are you to say that, did you graduate in islamic studies, i wouldn't think so.
Get your facts right my friend and give matters there due investigation because you haven't even began to scratch the surface. It's as if you just touched a shinai and one second after you started claiming to understand all its mechanics which is obviously ridiculous.
As far as offending is concerned i think it's not a suprise coming from you, i hope that kendo will temper that part of your nature.

You just answered much of what you wrote in the first paragraph, do you have some kind of a double personality?

The extreme behaviours come from humiliation, ignorance, discrimination ....etc which effects got multiplied after that godamned 9/11 which unofficially gave the green light for anybody who's got issues to harrass muslims indiscriminately and complete the vicious circle which in turn serves the agenda of extremists from either side of the fence. The riot is the danish comunity's problem as was the french one, what are you suggesting to deal with it, get rid of all the muslims? I bet many are thinking about that. The americans of japanese descent didn't riot, it's to there credit,but not everybody reacts the same way for obvious and less obvious reasons, take for instance the riots of americans of black african descent. Why did the latter react that way? plus you have to take to account that many demonstrations start peacefully but end violently, Ireland can be an example two.

Easy there mate, no need to be harsh! ^^" no offence intended ... just me ranting. I was just a wee ticked at all the criticism sending towards Denmark and the cartoon. I for one believe in the rights to freedom and that it is not just, in my opinion, for Muslim nations to boycott Denmark for standing up to their beliefs ... you have to look into the foundation of Danish democracy too, they also have something to uphold, the right for citizens to freely express their opinions. But yeah, I understand your arguements and fully accept it ... thats life eh?

I leave you off with this quote as food for thought, it can apply to many of us consciously or not:

"A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices." – Edward R. Murrow

(a good supportive quote for your greenlight bit)

Oh! and thank you Mr. Ignatz ^^

[Fonsz]

Here's some more food for thought blatantly stolen by me from the NY Times.
I guess that makes me a bleeding heart liberal by the standards of folks who are not liberal.:confused::puzzled:

Those Danish Cartoons

Published: February 7, 2006

Cartoons making fun of the Prophet Muhammad that were published in a Danish newspaper last September are suddenly one of the hottest issues in international politics. Muslims in Europe and across the Middle East have been holding protests with growing levels of violence and now loss of life.

The easy points to make about the continuing crisis are that (a) people are bound to be offended if their religion is publicly mocked, and (b) the proper response is not to go on a rampage and burn down buildings. If Muslim organizations want to stage peaceful marches or organize boycotts of Danish goods, they're certainly within their rights.

The pictures, one of which showed the prophet with a bomb on top of his head in place of a turban, violate a common belief among Muslims that any depiction of Muhammad is sacrilege. The paper that first published them did so as an experiment to see whether political satirists were capable of being as harsh to Islam as they are to other organized religions. If that sounds juvenile, Americans still recognize it as within the speech protected by our First Amendment.

The New York Times and much of the rest of the nation's news media have reported on the cartoons but refrained from showing them. That seems a reasonable choice for news organizations that usually refrain from gratuitous assaults on religious symbols, especially since the cartoons are so easy to describe in words.

The cartoons were largely unnoticed outside Denmark until a group of Muslim leaders there made a point of circulating them, along with drawings far more offensive than the relatively mild stuff actually printed by the paper, Jyllands-Posten. It's far from the first time that an almost-forgotten incident has been dredged up to score points with the public during politically sensitive times.

The governments of the countries in which the demonstrations are occurring are responsible for keeping them nonviolent. Lebanese officials have rightly apologized to Denmark for failing to control a protest that ended with the torching of the Danish Consulate in Beirut. That's in stark contrast with what happened in Syria, a nation where there is no such thing as a spontaneous demonstration, yet where large crowds managed to assemble and set fire to the Danish and Norwegian Embassies.

[KhawMengLee]

I for one believe in the rights to freedom and that it is not just, in my opinion, for Muslim nations to boycott Denmark for standing up to their beliefs ...I leave you off with this quote as food for thought, it can apply to many of us consciously or not:
^^

Danes drawing derogatory pictures of Muhammed = standing up for their beliefs.

Muslims saying that drawing pictures of Muhammed is sacrilage = Is also standing up for their beliefs.

So whats your point?

Its not a question of beliefs but one of respect. You don't see Muslims insulting Jesus? Actually, that is a sin because (suprising as it seems) Jesus is regarded as one of the prophets but the last being Muhammed.

The Mid-East has a very large fundamentalist base. You know what fundamentalists are like and you are surprised they react the way they do to an insult like what the paper drew?

If you walk into a Church in the Vatican City. Shat on a statue of Christ and then wiped your arse on the Bible. What sort of reaction do you think you'll get? Or try doing the same thing at a fundamentalist Church in Alabama.

Or here's a scenario a Thai would understand. Lets say the Danes thought how the custom in our region, of showing your bare feet on a table in public or putting your foot on someone's head being extremely rude, was funny. And they drew or photographed a picture of a man stepping on the Thai King's head or a Monk. How do you think the Thai people would react to that?

Yes, its your freedom of speech to say what you want. But don't act surprised when the people you offend come a knocking on your door.

[LNGUYEN]

Danes drawing derogatory pictures of Muhammed = standing up for their beliefs.

Muslims saying that drawing pictures of Muhammed is sacrilage = Is also standing up for their beliefs.

So whats your point?

Its not a question of beliefs but one of respect. You don't see Muslims insulting Jesus? Actually, that is a sin because (suprising as it seems) Jesus is regarded as one of the prophets but the last being Muhammed.

The Mid-East has a very large fundamentalist base. You know what fundamentalists are like and you are surprised they react the way they do to an insult like what the paper drew?

If you walk into a Church in the Vatican City. Shat on a statue of Christ and then wiped your arse on the Bible. What sort of reaction do you think you'll get? Or try doing the same thing at a fundamentalist Church in Alabama.

Or here's a scenario a Thai would understand. Lets say the Danes thought how the custom in our region, of showing your bare feet on a table in public or putting your foot on someone's head being extremely rude, was funny. And they drew or photographed a picture of a man stepping on the Thai King's head or a Monk. How do you think the Thai people would react to that?

Yes, its your freedom of speech to say what you want. But don't act surprised when the people you offend come a knocking on your door.

True, but the Christian will not go out shouted "Death to ___". I don't think they will burn any embassy neither. The thing is lives are more precious than any cartoon and if the Islam is a peaceful religion, then the Muslim should react differently than what I have seen so far. Thus, don't tell me that whoever burned the embassies, shouted death to any countries are extremists because all the protesters are all doing that.

[KhawMengLee]

True, but the Christian will not go out shouted "Death to ___". I don't think they will burn any embassy neither. The thing is lives are more precious than any cartoon and if the Islam is a peaceful religion, then the Muslim should react differently than what I have seen so far. Thus, don't tell me that whoever burned the embassies, shouted death to any countries are extremists because all the protesters are all doing that.


As I said. There is a huge differences between the muslims in areas like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc when compared to Saudi Arabia, Malaysia and so forth.

Where you have a good economy. Good infrastructure. etc you don't see these kind of protests.

Where you have fundamentalists, what do you expect?

Remember the wake of 9-11? Anti muslim attacks, some guy dressed as Osama in New Zealand got the shit kicked out of him. Another bloke in a Osama mask holding a toy gun was shot to death in the States. Hate crimes against innocent muslims on the rise.

Now imagine if the Fundamentalist Christians had their finger on the button. What do you think they would have done?

What I'm saying is that you cannot lump all of Islam by the actions of a few rogue states.

[LNGUYEN]

You pointed out some incidents here or there and those were related to the murders from terrorist. People got killed. You can't compare it to the huge World wide protests, shouting, killing, and burning just because a cartoon.

[LNGUYEN]

You pointed out some incidents here or there and those were related to the murders from terrorist. People got killed. You can't compare it to the huge World wide protests, shouting, killing, and burning just because a cartoon. However, I have to agree that whoever draw that cartoon is a stupid jerk but still a formal is just but not the violence one.

[KhawMengLee]

You pointed out some incidents here or there and those were related to the murders from terrorist. People got killed. You can't compare it to the huge World wide protests, shouting, killing, and burning just because a cartoon.

Some people take their faith seriously.

My point being, you can see how a fanatic will react waaaay before it happens. Yet, you go ahead and stir the hornet's nest.

Why did the newspaper allow the cartoon to run? If they didn't stir up this shit then there would be no protests. Is it legal for me to draw pictures of jews as money hungry boogeymen stealing Denmark's money? Yes its legal. Is it right? No.

[Fonsz]

Is it legal for me to draw pictures of jews as money hungry boogeymen stealing Denmark's money? Yes its legal. Is it right? No.
If you look at Arabian language newspapers from different countries, this is exactly what you would see in their Op-ed Cartoons. The Jews are stealing the money of the Palestinians instead of the Danes but never the less. Bush is portrayed as a parrot on the arm of a Jew with a hooked nose etc etc as seen in cartoons in German newspapers round the time that Germany was called the Third Reich. Auswitz and other concentration camps are also used in these cartoons to prove a point. There is no freedom of speech in those countries last time I heard. Newspapers are controlled by government officials. So one might presume that it is with the consent of the rulers. I never saw Jewish people throwing stones at the Arabian Embassy and if they did it never reached the news.

1 wrong doesn't make the other right (does that make sense?) What I hate is that it wouldn't matter what, they were looking for a reason to get of their rockers to get even. It could have been anything else. It has been hyped up by the evil forces that lurk everywhere. Hopefully WW III won't break out because of a cartoon that hasn't even been published in the Danish newspaper. But I have been wrong before.:down:

[LNGUYEN]

So according to Islam, Muhammad is a prophet. If I said that I don't believe Muhammad is a prophet, then am I insulting Islam and subject to stone to death?

[Fonsz]

So according to Islam, Muhammad is a prophet. If I said that I don't believe Muhammad is a prophet, then am I insulting Islam and subject to stone to death?
Well maybe not stoning per se but at least other unpleasant things and eternal damnation. This is not what every Muslim would wish you but this is what I hear and read now and then in the news.

[Paikea]

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyid=2006-02-07T152958Z_01_L07723729_RTRUKOC_0_US-RELIGION-CARTOONS-IRAN-HOLOCAUST.xml&rpc=22

The infantility escalates again...

[Ignatz]

Now is the time for all good men and women, muslim, christian, jew, buddhist, hindu, atheist, whatever, to stand up and be counted and not let the lunatic fringe groups run rampant and destroy peace in the world.
Stop it!! All of you.

[Lloromannic]

So according to Islam, Muhammad is a prophet. If I said that I don't believe Muhammad is a prophet, then am I insulting Islam and subject to stone to death?

From "normal" muslims, no. From radicals, it's about the same as if you tell radical christians that jesus was simply an uppity jew. Note, I don't condone either view.

[Paikea]

What's really scary, is all it will take for the situation to move out of control is for ten seconds of video where western troops or police are shooting at demonstrators. "Why" won't matter...I believe it's the real purpose behind the whole thing.

[Lloromannic]

True, but the Christian will not go out shouted "Death to ___". I don't think they will burn any embassy neither. The thing is lives are more precious than any cartoon and if the Islam is a peaceful religion, then the Muslim should react differently than what I have seen so far. Thus, don't tell me that whoever burned the embassies, shouted death to any countries are extremists because all the protesters are all doing that.


They did however, make a war in the middle east, take many cities by force, took over jerusalem, killed everyone inside and repeated it on many cities.

[Lloromannic]

They did however, make a war in the middle east, take many cities by force, took over jerusalem, killed everyone inside and repeated it on many cities.

Scrap that.
Instead I'd like to draw your attention to an intersesting game Nation States (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/www.nationstates.net) where yo can create your own country and run it as you like. I'd urge people to create their own and maybe later we can turn to flame each other over who has a better country

[Paikea]

Scrap that.
Instead I'd like to draw your attention to an intersesting game Nation States (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/www.nationstates.net) where yo can create your own country and run it as you like. I'd urge people to create their own and maybe later we can turn to flame each other over who has a better countryJeeze Emilio, this could get me fired....

Location: The North Pacific (http://www.nationstates.net/67073/page=display_region/region=the_north_pacific)

The People's Republic of Multnomah County is a tiny, environmentally stunning nation, notable for its compulsory military service. Its hard-nosed, cynical population of 5 million are ruled without fear or favor by a psychotic dictator, who outlaws just about everything and refers to the populace as "my little playthings."

The enormous, corrupt, socially-minded government is effectively ruled by the Department of Law & Order, with areas such as Religion & Spirituality and Social Welfare receiving almost no funds by comparison. The average income tax rate is 39%, but much higher for the wealthy. Private enterprise is illegal, but for those in the know there is a slick and highly efficient black market in Uranium Mining.

Crime -- especially youth-related -- is well under control, thanks to the all-pervasive police force. Multnomah County's national animal is the raven, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the Megabuck.

[runsyi]

Scrap that.
Instead I'd like to draw your attention to an intersesting game Nation States (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/www.nationstates.net) where yo can create your own country and run it as you like. I'd urge people to create their own and maybe later we can turn to flame each other over who has a better country

Location: the Pacific (http://www.nationstates.net/07937/page=display_region/region=the_pacific)

The Protectorate of Shallow Idle is a tiny, socially progressive nation, notable for its absence of drug laws. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, intelligent population of 5 million have some civil rights, but not too many, enjoy the freedom to spend their money however they like, to a point, and take part in free and open elections, although not too often.
The large government juggles the competing demands of Law & Order, Defence, and Healthcare. The average income tax rate is 19%. A substantial private sector is led by the Uranium Mining industry, followed by Trout Farming and Automobile Manufacturing.
Crime is a problem. Shallow Idle's national animal is the goat and its currency is the she-sell-seashells.

[Lloromannic]

Mine is the Republic of Fences and Windows. (http://www.nationstates.net/fences_and_windows) (if you recognize the name it should tell you something about me)

Location: The North Pacific (http://www.nationstates.net/28855/page=display_region/region=the_north_pacific)

The Federation of Fences and Windows is a small, environmentally stunning nation, notable for its burgeoning Two Headed Panda population. Its compassionate, intelligent population of 7 million are fiercely patriotic and enjoy great social equality; they tend to view other, more capitalist countries as somewhat immoral and corrupt.
The enormous government juggles the competing demands of Social Welfare, Education, and Healthcare. The average income tax rate is 34%, but much higher for the wealthy. A substantial private sector is led by the Information Technology industry, followed by Furniture Restoration and Cheese Exports.
Voting is voluntary, military funding has been stripped back, and meat-eating is frowned upon. Crime is relatively low, thanks to a well-funded police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Fences and Windows's national animal is the Two Headed Panda, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the Konk.
Fences and Windows is ranked 1015th in the region and 22,114th in the world for Largest Furniture Restoration Industry.


It really makes you think. You may think you are so great but it sometimes comes out as scary.

[Fonsz]

I also wonder why there is such a ruckus about cartoons from 6 months ago. I would however expected similar scenes after the publication of the pictures taken at the Abu Graib prison. If a revolution broke out because of that then I would have understood completely.:scared:

[LNGUYEN]

They did however, make a war in the middle east, take many cities by force, took over jerusalem, killed everyone inside and repeated it on many cities.

Are you quoting the history? As I know in the history, the Muslim and Christian were radical at that time. One side was trying to convert the whole World to become Islam and the other side was trying to reverse it. Of course war was always cruel to either side and as I said both were extremist at that time. Since then, Christian got evolve and became more of peaceful. On the other hand Islam got evolve to become so many faces today. More or less are on the peaceful side, some other still got extremist, and Sunni and Shiai are still not getting along together. Of course the Irish problem is something different, it is more political than religious and it is only a small percentage of the Christian World. KKK is the racist problem within the US. The most painful image is someone shouted Allahu Akba and then blew himself up and killed many along with him. God must be crying river when we, the human being killing each other in the name of him. because Alla or God or whatever name we call him, he is still the same one God according to Islam, Christian, and Hebrew.

[KhawMengLee]

Are you quoting the history? As I know in the history, the Muslim and Christian were radical at that time. One side was trying to convert the whole World to become Islam and the other side was trying to reverse it. Of course war was always cruel to either side and as I said both were extremist at that time. Since then, Christian got evolve and became more of peaceful. On the other hand Islam got evolve to become so many faces today. More or less are on the peaceful side, some other still got extremist, and Sunni and Shiai are still not getting along together. Of course the Irish problem is something different, it is more political than religious and it is only a small percentage of the Christian World. KKK is the racist problem within the US. The most painful image is someone shouted Allahu Akba and then blew himself up and killed many along with him. God must be crying river when we, the human being killing each other in the name of him. because Alla or God or whatever name we call him, he is still the same one God according to Islam, Christian, and Hebrew.

Actually, the Christians were the radicals.

The Crusades started when the Byzantine Emperor Alexius sent a letter to the Pope asking for help to deal with Turkish raiders on his land. The Pope took this as an opportunity to bring the Greek Orthodox Church under its fold and also to absorb its religious power base.

The Church capitalised on the religious fevour at the time to recruit soldiers throughout Europe to go on a holy Pilgramage to 'free' the Holy Land. Basically, it was sold that the Muslims were persecuting Christians in Jeruselam...which was for from the case.

Alexious was expecting a few thousand mercenaries. What he got was a few hundred thousand armed killers on his doorstep.

In stark contrast to Islam's image today. The Muslims at the time were actually very cultured. Perfecting the arts and sciences. Towards their opponents they were merciful and honorable, many aspects of Chivalry you see in the Knights code was taken from the Muslims.

At the time, it was the Crusaders who were the brutes. The city of Marat for example, which they laid seige too, had every inhabitant butchered(man, woman or child. Christian, Jew and Muslim). To deter the crusaders the inhabitants had burned all their supplies...so the Crusaders ended up eating the people.

They did the same with the city of Antioch and when they conquered Jerusalem 1099 they did the same.

In stark contrast, when Saladin came to power he was both benevolent and merciful. He would frequently spare his enemies and send them off in good health and with gifts. When Guy De Lusignan started a campaign against him(roughly portrayed in the film Kingdom of Heaven). Saladin destroyed the Crusader army and proceeded to recapture every town the Crusaders took during the first Crusade (by this point in time it would have been the start of the third crusade).

When he captured Jerusalem, Saladin spared the lives of the inhabitants. He did not butcher them like the Crusaders did before. Those who could pay he set free, those who could not were sold as slaves. In stark contrasts to Richard the Lionheart's actions during the capture of Acre. Where when the captured soldiers and their families could not be ransomed he had his men spend the day butchered everyone of them. Over 2600 men were beheaded and their families too.

One of the main reasons for Islams more radical views was a result of the constant attacks during the crusade. A very good documentary to watch is the Crusades with Terry Jones.

For a brief overview:

The Crusades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crusades)

Saladin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin)

I like this little bit of Trivia about Saladin;

Not long after Richard's departure, Saladin died in 1193 at Damascus. When they opened Saladin's treasury they found there was not enough money to pay for his funeral; he had given his money away to those in need. His tomb, located in the Umayyad mosque, is now a major tourist attraction. His tomb is one of the most visited in the world.

Another good source of reading material:

A Booke of Days by Stephen J Reville (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786704624/qid=1139416619/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-1439979-6329714?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)
or try the documentary

The Crusades (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005U8F3/qid=1139416731/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-1439979-6329714?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130)

[Paikea]

Actually, the Christians were the radicals.

...Why KML, you closet scholar.

[KhawMengLee]

Why KML, you closet scholar.

I just love irony.

Just like how China was so powerful they got arrogant and decided everyone else was not as good as them.

The when the British came...

Gun? What is this gun? Bwahahaha! Stupid white devil! I have Kung Foooaarrrrgh!

[Paikea]

I just love irony.

Just like how China was so powerful they got arrogant and decided everyone else was not as good as them.

The when the British came...

Gun? What is this gun? Bwahahaha! Stupid white devil! I have Kung Foooaarrrrgh!Aparrently, that happens to every powerful nation/empire at some point in their history. You'd think we'd learn...

[Hai_hai]

KhawMengLee,
The Professor Hentai title is interesting. Is this on your zekken?

[KhawMengLee]

KhawMengLee,
The Professor Hentai title is interesting. Is this on your zekken?

its on the underside...you gotta crouch down and lift up my tare flap to see it.

[Lloromannic]

Aparrently, that happens to every powerful nation/empire at some point in their history. You'd think we'd learn...

But if we learned we'd have a continuous rule until the aliens came, and my descendants won't have GWB XVI as their king.

[Hai_hai]

its on the underside...you gotta crouch down and lift up my tare flap to see it.
変態 or へんたい should be embroidered on the koshiita of your hakama.

[KhawMengLee]

変態 or へんたい should be embroidered on the koshiita of your hakama.

what's that?

[Fonsz]

what's that?
I can't read Kanji but the Hiragana says "Hentai" and I haven't got a clue what that means.

[h2o]

I can't read Kanji but the Hiragana says "Hentai" and I haven't got a clue what that means.You mean that tou can read hiragana but don't know the word hentai? I mean, for god's sake, I know what hentai means, and I don't know a single kana ;)

[Mugu]

I can't read Kanji but the Hiragana says "Hentai" and I haven't got a clue what that means.

Today's vocabulary is:

変態 【へんたい】(n) transformation, metamorphosis, abnormality, pervert, (P)

[Paikea]

Today's vocabulary is:

変態 【へんたい】(n) transformation, metamorphosis, abnormality, pervert, (P)I'm thinking Hai-Hai isn't meaning 1, 2 or 3.

[Jerott]

I feel a person's opinion never matters, unless it's against me. But i think that person should live a while in America and see if he still dislikes us.
P.S-Austrailia rocks, never been there, but still sounds awesome

[Commander]

I have only been to NYC, though I will be going to Hartsville, SC to stay with my bf and his family and then going to MS to see his dad so we'll be stopping over in GA and AL. I dunno how to rate the south, i've heard alot of badness with the KKK, racism, their old ways etc. I cant judge just now but i know it'll be completely different from Scotland and the North like NYC.

If anyone is a native and or has been to the South, what is it like?


I have no problem with Americans but some can be big headed and down other peoples culture, just plain ignorant. But most i've met are really nice people

[Ignatz]

I have only been to NYC, though I will be going to Hartsville, SC to stay with my bf and his family and then going to MS to see his dad so we'll be stopping over in GA and AL. I dunno how to rate the south, i've heard alot of badness with the KKK, racism, their old ways etc. I cant judge just now but i know it'll be completely different from Scotland and the North like NYC.

If anyone is a native and or has been to the South, what is it like?


I have no problem with Americans but some can be big headed and down other peoples culture, just plain ignorant. But most i've met are really nice people
I lived in North Carolina for 9 years. Many of the people are warm and friendly. My biggest complaint is the sneaky, behind your back people and there are a lot of them. I got alot of "you're a yankee from New York" even though my family is from Texas, they weren't interested in the truth they had their prejudices and were sticking with them. The racism is really behind the scenes, sneaky racism. We say in NYC, when we stab you in the back, we do it right to your face.
I'm glad you have no problem with Americans, I for one, feel much better now.:eek:

[Bear of Doom]

I know that the subject on the cartoons is a case closed and well expired on our KW, but I just read this really interesting letter to the editor by a Danish-American bloke in the Bangkok Post. I just thought it was an interesting read for whoever's interested, those who are not feel free to ignore. It's well written, sort of speaks my mind.


Cartoons not really offensive

Who has seen the drawings that have so enraged some Muslims? It is doubtful whether the protesting Muslims have seen them. I have seen them online at http://librabunda.blogspot.com/ They're drawn by 12 different artists, and the theme is "depictions of Mukammad" not "Muhammad". All but two of the 12 cartoons are so benign as to be harmless to anyone who's not itching for a fight. The two that might be offensive are truly lightweight.

Some rioting protesters have been quoted as saying the cartoons are "denigrating to Muslims". Hey pal, the only thing that might be denigrating Muslims is the actions of the fringe element who are burning buildings over some pen-and-ink drawings. Last time that sort of thing happened, there was a rumour of a prison guard who might (or might not) have put one of your "holy books" on a toilet seat. Are we to believe that Muslims are so insecure in their beliefs that some little action half a world away would toss their world into a tailspin? My message to the hot-heads is: Don't be so thin-skinned and easily offended.

The alternative is to wrap their ego around their self-righteousness, and therefore get angry and offended at the slightest off-colour remark by anyone.

KEN ALBERTSEN

Danish-American


Source: Bangkok Post
URL: http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/09Feb2006_news99.php

[Mugu]

If anyone is a native and or has been to the South, what is it like?


Start watching a comedy called "Blue Collar TV"... if you get what they say and the jokes, you'll be just fine...

[Commander]

I lived in North Carolina for 9 years. Many of the people are warm and friendly. My biggest complaint is the sneaky, behind your back people and there are a lot of them. I got alot of "you're a yankee from New York" even though my family is from Texas, they weren't interested in the truth they had their prejudices and were sticking with them. The racism is really behind the scenes, sneaky racism. We say in NYC, when we stab you in the back, we do it right to your face.
I'm glad you have no problem with Americans, I for one, feel much better now.:eek:

Yeah people from the South tend to dwell alot on the past and not move on, like back in time. No i have no problem with American's if i did i wouldn't be going out with one :p

[Paikea]

If anyone is a native and or has been to the South, what is it like?Like anywhere else, you'll meet good people and bad, they'll like you because y'all have a funny way of talkin'.

Learn to appreciate the subtlety of a well-made julep, suck the heads on your crawfish and get your cholesterol checked three times a year, and you'll do fine.

[samurai999]

If anyone is a native and or has been to the South, what is it like?




Well I'm not Southern, but my coworker in the past was.. He wore a rebel flag t-shirt to work once hehe. I got my quote in my sig from him. He took jokes about him in stride so it was fun to hang with him. They are usually hospitable in general. I dunno about parts of the deep south though.

Thought you might find this handy hehe

http://www.janegraves.com/funsouth.htm

Tim

[Omnis]

Do people hate americans because our kendo federation charges an admission fee? :P

[KhawMengLee]

Well I'm not Southern, but my coworker in the past was.. He wore a rebel flag t-shirt to work once hehe. I got my quote in my sig from him. He took jokes about him in stride so it was fun to hang with him. They are usually hospitable in general. I dunno about parts of the deep south though.

Thought you might find this handy hehe

http://www.janegraves.com/funsouth.htm

Tim

Hahah...I have the Reb Flag on me wall. Hurrah! Hurrah! For Southern rights! Hurrah! Hooray for the bonny blue blag that bears a single star!
hahaha

[TylerY]

Wow... this thread is still alive? I seem to remember posting on it this time last year. I guess people really DO hate americans...

[Commander]

Doesn't the confederate flag symbolise the racism there?

[KhawMengLee]

Doesn't the confederate flag symbolise the racism there?

I think thats a stereotype.

Freeing the slaves was one aspect of the war, the bigger issue was the South voting to seed itself away from the US.

[Commander]

Hmmm why would they wanna do that when its the same country? I thought people stuck together, especially the same nationality

[Bear of Doom]

Mass contradicting ideas and many more ... read about the American civil war! ><

Here to help you out, a short wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_war

Wish the world would be like that ... people sticking together in the same country, with pretty butterflies flying around, lambs gambolling in the fields ... ah, yes. I can see it now.

[Ignatz]

Doesn't the confederate flag symbolise the racism there?

They will tell you it doesn't but they are lying. Imagine a small town where everybody knows everybody else and their business. In this small town, a gang of men in sheets and hoods drags black men out of their homes and hangs them and burns crosses yet nobody in the town knows who they are. bullshit.

You can go into the economic reasons for the civil war all you want but the main difference between the North and South was slavery. Of course the North, who tells you they were against slavery, grabbed all of the Irish as they came off the boats and sent them off to the war to be cannon fodder.
Many in the south refer to the civil war as "The war of northern agression" but it is over and the south lost and after 150 years perhaps they should move on. In Atlanta, Georgia most people were not even born in the U.S., let alone the south.

[Commander]

I do not believe in racism and the way the South is to this day. Its terrible things like that are totally unhead of here in Scotland.

I think the UK was more civilised eh?

[Ignatz]

I do not believe in racism and the way the South is to this day. Its terrible things like that are totally unhead of here in Scotland.

I think the UK was more civilised eh?

Where do you think all of those people came from?
And the UK was perfectly civilized if we forget about the attempted genocide of the Irish (could never work, we breed like rabbits)

[LNGUYEN]

I think the UK was more civilised eh?

Oh yeah? check the "I hate Gibbo" thread to see how civilise they are.

[Commander]

I meant Scottish people.

[samurai999]

Doesn't the confederate flag symbolise the racism there?

You tell that to a southerner and you'll most likely won't get a friendly response. They wanted their own identity and they kinda lost it. My friend still debates that Tennessee wasn't part of the Union but part of the south.

Tim

[Lloromannic]

Hmmm why would they wanna do that when its the same country? I thought people stuck together, especially the same nationality


I can't say about now but then they were the United States, a bunch of territories united and not one single entity. So some of the members didn't agree with some of the situations and wanted to leave.



I meant Scottish people.


Come on, Scots are anything but civilized,and you can't say that I don't know what I'm talking about cuz I saw both Braveheart and Trainspotting. (do I need to say this is a joke?)

[KhawMengLee]

Hmmm why would they wanna do that when its the same country? I thought people stuck together, especially the same nationality

The South was an agriculture and commodity based economy. The North was industrialized. Both economies needed labour to survive. The South used slave labour and the North used immigrant labour. Though, this sounds rather black and white(no pun intended) its not so simple. I think one scene from the civil war drama North and South explained it quite well.

Orry Main(Southerner) was visiting his best friend George Hazard's steel mill. As he walked past the worker's cabins(Irish immigrants), Hazard notices his friend's look and says, "I know, they don't look much different from your slave quarters...but everyone here is a free man and can leave whenever they want."

To which Orry replies, "Its not so easy to leave when all you have ahead is to starve."

The South felt that its home politics and liberties should not be dictated by someone outside the state. Sorta like a stranger coming into your home and telling you how to run things.

The truth is that the Civil war was not as simple as slavery or racism. Even the KKK started by Nathan Bedford Forrest, did have a good reason to its formation. When the slaves were liberated, the North didn't really want to do anything with them so they left them to their own devices. So what do you think would happen when you have hundreds of thousands of slaves with no food or education or law, wandering around the countryside?

Looting, robbery etc etc

The KKK started as a protection/avenging force. BUT(before you bite my head off) over time grew to be a venting point for frustrated southerners. Bedford Forrest left in disgust when he saw the KKK degenerate into a mob who lynched, robbed, raped indiscriminately(the irony of it all).

Events in our history often get oversimplified when the main crux of the matter is much more complicated in truth.

[Commander]

I can't say about now but then they were the United States, a bunch of territories united and not one single entity. So some of the members didn't agree with some of the situations and wanted to leave.





Come on, Scots are anything but civilized,and you can't say that I don't know what I'm talking about cuz I saw both Braveheart and Trainspotting. (do I need to say this is a joke?)


Thats only a film, one film im a Scotswoman and i know we are really nice people, the most generous in europe. Braveheart was because the English drove us to that. Present we are civilised.

[Lloromannic]

Thats only a film, one film im a Scotswoman and i know we are really nice people, the most generous in europe. Braveheart was because the English drove us to that. Present we are civilised.


I know, I've met some Scots and they've been great people without fail. One guy from Stornoway (my chemistry teacher) is rather odd but I guesws that's what you become when you live in that small island.

[Commander]

I know, I've met some Scots and they've been great people without fail. One guy from Stornoway (my chemistry teacher) is rather odd but I guesws that's what you become when you live in that small island.

Yeah dont trust an Islander :p

We're good people, im not being big headed but im afraid its true. Scottish are really good people.

Have a nice weekend

[Rurouni Kenshin]

I do not believe in racism and the way the South is to this day. Its terrible things like that are totally unhead of here in Scotland.

I think the UK was more civilised eh?


I meant Scottish people.

No offence here; just from an objective point of view and definately not in the defence of the South as I do not agree with their way of thinking either but................isnt your comment somewhat in the faintest way along the same line of thinking as the South does, by differentiating yourself from the the Brittish and trying to keep your own identity?

[Paikea]

No offence here; just from an objective point of view and definately not in the defence of the South as I do not agree with their way of thinking either but................isnt your comment somewhat in the faintest way along the same line of thinking as the South does, by differentiating yourself from the the Brittish and trying to keep your own identity?What firsthand experience do you have that allows you to make "objective", yet sweeping generalizations about how nearly one hundred million people think like that?

Television, perhaps?

[drizzt]

Doesn't the confederate flag symbolise the racism there?

If you fly it as a rscist symbol, it is a racist symbol.

I have a flag i keep up with a couple of civil war reproductions(with an american flag crossed right across from it), its not in a racist context, but i guarantee half the people in the world would cal em on for having it. I wish the rest of the world would figure out the idiots in the klan dont represet the south...

I am proud of being from the south, and more importnatly TX. People in the states tend to have a more sectionalist view, especialy in the south, as alot of the states we come from are bigger than most countrys..

[Ignatz]

Events in our history often get oversimplified when the main crux of the matter is much more complicated in truth.

Now isn't that the truth? If more people recognized that we would have far fewer problems in the world.

[Commander]

We may be the "Great Britain" but i consider myself Scottish because its my nationality, however in the States the people from the North and South are Americans,

America is ONE country, was never actually a seprate country, Canada and the USA yes.

Scotland and England, totally different countries, culture, lifestyle etc

We have own on Flag and country name, so whats the problem? I know some English people hate us because of the war etc but i dont care, let them hate us.

I am very patriotic about my country, i am Scottish.

[Commander]

FYI,

Im not trying to make anyone feel low. I have English friends, they are just like any other human being, i work with some too and they are very cool. Its just some people, you get the odd Scotsman and the odd Englishman that utterly hate each other, but i think we should all move on.

[Anjin-san]

I think beauty queens sum it up the best... World Peace!

[Commander]

lol erm I dunno about that, prob for guys :p

[LNGUYEN]

We may be the "Great Britain" but i consider myself Scottish because its my nationality, however in the States the people from the North and South are Americans,

America is ONE country, was never actually a seprate country, Canada and the USA yes.

Scotland and England, totally different countries, culture, lifestyle etc

We have own on Flag and country name, so whats the problem? I know some English people hate us because of the war etc but i dont care, let them hate us.

I am very patriotic about my country, i am Scottish.

Just question for the Scot. Are you going for independence from England or satisfying with the current status right now?

[Moe-Swordsaint!]

So according to Islam, Muhammad is a prophet. If I said that I don't believe Muhammad is a prophet, then am I insulting Islam and subject to stone to death?

umm... no.

[Commander]

Just question for the Scot. Are you going for independence from England or satisfying with the current status right now?

Well it would be nice to have complete control over "our" own country. England has control over theres, so why cant we? I dont see the point.

[Fonsz]

So according to Islam, Muhammad is a prophet. If I said that I don't believe Muhammad is a prophet, then am I insulting Islam and subject to stone to death?

umm... no.

You just restored my faith in mankind Moe, thank you very much.
How's Kendo coming along? Have you got an Arabian National Team yet?

[FastEd]

We may be the "Great Britain" but i consider myself Scottish because its my nationality, however in the States the people from the North and South are Americans,

America is ONE country, was never actually a seprate country, Canada and the USA yes.



What...are you smoken? European's may prefer to call everyone over the pond American's, but over here three distinctions are made. North American, South American and Central American. America, stands for the USA in common usage. No one from Mexico or Canada would ever refer to themselves as an "American", Or ever say "I'm from America". At least not in my living experience.

[Lloromannic]

What...are you smoken? European's may prefer to call everyone over the pond American's, but over here three distinctions are made. North American, South American and Central American. America, stands for the USA in common usage. No one from Mexico or Canada would ever refer to themselves as an "American", Or ever say "I'm from America". At least not in my living experience.


I'm from Mexico and I'd say I'm an american since I live in america. Although it's true thar in Anglocentric countries America tends to be used for the US

[Commander]

What...are you smoken? European's may prefer to call everyone over the pond American's, but over here three distinctions are made. North American, South American and Central American. America, stands for the USA in common usage. No one from Mexico or Canada would ever refer to themselves as an "American", Or ever say "I'm from America". At least not in my living experience.

Dont get on your high horse, you have not understood what i wrote
I never mentioned Canada or South America or Mexico i meant the USA as in the United States.

Just because im "European" doesn't mean to say i cant tell the difference between Canadians, Americans or whatever lol

Sorry

[FastEd]

Dont get on your high horse, you have not understood what i wrote
I never mentioned Canada or South America or Mexico i meant the USA as in the United States.

Just because im "European" doesn't mean to say i cant tell the difference between Canadians, Americans or whatever lol

Sorry

No I am sorry... Your right, I completely misunderstood your post. They don't call me FastEd for nothing...!

[Ignatz]

No one from Mexico or Canada would ever refer to themselves as an "American", Or ever say "I'm from America". At least not in my living experience.

It's easy to tell them apart. If they say "Eh?" they are Canadian. If they say "Que?" they are Mexican. The other ones are American.:D

[FastEd]

I'm from Mexico and I'd say I'm an american since I live in america. Although it's true thar in Anglocentric countries America tends to be used for the US

Hello Lloromannic, not trying to be antagonistic, just curious about how the term American, America is used.
I could accept, anyone living in Mexico, USA, or Canada saying that they live in North America. Or they are North American. But to call yourself an American means to me that you are a US citizen. Saying you live in America means to me that you are living in the US. However, living in America may not make you an American. This may be my Anglocentric understanding of things, what is the latinocentric perspective?

[Lloromannic]

Hello Lloromannic, not trying to be antagonistic, just curious about how the term American, America is used.
I could accept, anyone living in Mexico, USA, or Canada saying that they live in North America. Or they are North American. But to call yourself an American means to me that you are a US citizen. Saying you live in America means to me that you are living in the US. However, living in America may not make you an American. This may be my Anglocentric understanding of things, what is the latinocentric perspective?


No worries, in latin america, America is the name of the continent and the United States is the name of the country.

[Commander]

No I am sorry... Your right, I completely misunderstood your post. They don't call me FastEd for nothing...!


Im sorry too, i didn't mean to be so rude. Especially on valentines day.

:(

I did have a nice one though.

Oh and the Scots say "Aye" or "Naw" :p

[Moe-Swordsaint!]

You just restored my faith in mankind Moe, thank you very much.
How's Kendo coming along? Have you got an Arabian National Team yet?


oh good thing you haven't lost hope :D,,, well kendo is great,, 2 weeks ago my sensai told me im ready to wear bogu, i was surprized and thought it was early myself but im going to buy bogu soon (as soon as i can afford it, there are no places that sell bogu here so my sensei will get it from japan)

as for the Saudi Arabian National Team... well that gonna take ALOT of time, first i need more experience and i am training (last lesson my sensei noted that im progressing "perfectly" :silly: )... and it turns out my sensei knows the guy in charge of the karate & takwondo federation here in saudi and he might help us with it.. :)

well thanks for asking.. :)

[Moe-Swordsaint!]

Sorry, I didn't realize that this was a personal thread between you and Fonz. I must say that I adore the little ganja and miss ignatz thing, nothing like a little ad hominum to buck up an otherwise stellar presentation. A pot smoking woman, wow. Sounds like a muslim insult. Well, I've got to put my panties and bra on and roll me a nice spliff.


OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shocked: U JUST INSULTED ISLAM! TASTE MY COLD BLADE AND RPG ROCKETS AND DIE YOU INCOMPITENT INFIDEL!!!!! AND ROAST IN HELL WITH ALL OTHER PIGS OF THE WEST!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!






(hope u aprechiate(sp?) sarcasm.....) :tired:

[Paikea]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shocked: U JUST INSULTED ISLAM! TASTE MY COLD BLADE AND RPG ROCKETS AND DIE YOU INCOMPITENT INFIDEL!!!!! AND ROAST IN HELL WITH ALL OTHER PIGS OF THE WEST!!!!!!
:tired:Mmmm....roast kahlua pig. Is there a line forming for this hell thing?

[Moe-Swordsaint!]

Last I heard is that the newspaper has said that they are sorry that Muslims all over the world are not happy with the situation. But apparently that's not enough heads will have to roll, blood has to be spilt

... has anyone seen this pathetic apology? it was fist written in danish then translated to arabic and editid so that most of the "apology" in it was gone and after that it was put up on their site in the middle of one night in the edited form... and just about no one even heard of it, and i really think they should have done a better job with the apology, at least putting it on the paper itself in both arabic and danish,,


anyway im not with the violence going on and its really not doing anything except making us look even more barberic to the rest of the world, but im with protesting as long as its peaceful. i beleive we should act like the prophet taught us to act in such conditions, and that is certainly not burning down embassies and resorting to violence in any way...

our prophet has been insulted badly (yes, i have seen the caricatures) and they call it freedom, would insulting ur father publicly be freedom? i dont think so. and they do it to someone that is more then that to muslims what the hell did they expect? the muslims to read it and have a good laugh at their prophet? nope! i persnally think (and was thinking at the time) that when all the kidnappings and killings were going on in iraq (and other things & places) in the name of islam we should have publicly showed our views on them and protested,,,

this is a really long subject and im not in the mood to continue writing right now...

[runsyi]

Mmmm....roast kahlua pig. Is there a line forming for this hell thing?

Hell is an imu?

[Paikea]

Hell is an imu?If you fell in at the wrong time, I guess it would be.

[Moe-Swordsaint!]

Are you quoting the history? As I know in the history, the Muslim and Christian were radical at that time. One side was trying to convert the whole World to become Islam and the other side was trying to reverse it. Of course war was always cruel to either side and as I said both were extremist at that time. Since then, Christian got evolve and became more of peaceful. On the other hand Islam got evolve to become so many faces today. More or less are on the peaceful side, some other still got extremist, and Sunni and Shiai are still not getting along together. Of course the Irish problem is something different, it is more political than religious and it is only a small percentage of the Christian World. KKK is the racist problem within the US. The most painful image is someone shouted Allahu Akba and then blew himself up and killed many along with him. God must be crying river when we, the human being killing each other in the name of him. because Alla or God or whatever name we call him, he is still the same one God according to Islam, Christian, and Hebrew.



OH please.... please look more closly into history.

[Ignatz]

(hope u aprechiate(sp?) sarcasm.....) :tired:

Ya betcha.:cheerful:
But Hey Moe! (I'm going to ask a serious question and thought it would be nice to start it that way),

I looked into this picture thing a little bit and the earliest likeness I can find of the prophet is around the mid 12th century and a western painting at that. Now that is what, 500 years after his death. So, it seems to me that, like Jesus, nobody really has any idea what he looked like. Now my question is that since only one of these cartoons indicated that it was allegedly the prophet (the one where the cartoonist is hiding it while he is drawing it) how does anybody know that these are likenesses of the prophet at all? Maybe this is a stupid question but lets look at the one with the guy having a bomb in his turbin, how do we come to the conclusion that this is a picture of the prophet and not just joe muslim off on his way to work at the terrorist factory? Or is it that if we somehow connect islam with terrorism that is blasphemy?
Anyway, glad to hear that your kendo is going well, you are of course welcome to join the Great Coalition for World Peace Through the Vigorous Training in Kendo ("Don't be an a-hole")
john

[Moe-Swordsaint!]

Ya betcha.:cheerful:
But Hey Moe! (I'm going to ask a serious question and thought it would be nice to start it that way),

I looked into this picture thing a little bit and the earliest likeness I can find of the prophet is around the mid 12th century and a western painting at that. Now that is what, 500 years after his death. So, it seems to me that, like Jesus, nobody really has any idea what he looked like. Now my question is that since only one of these cartoons indicated that it was allegedly the prophet (the one where the cartoonist is hiding it while he is drawing it) how does anybody know that these are likenesses of the prophet at all? Maybe this is a stupid question but lets look at the one with the guy having a bomb in his turbin, how do we come to the conclusion that this is a picture of the prophet and not just joe muslim off on his way to work at the terrorist factory? Or is it that if we somehow connect islam with terrorism that is blasphemy?
Anyway, glad to hear that your kendo is going well, you are of course welcome to join the Great Coalition for World Peace Through the Vigorous Training in Kendo ("Don't be an a-hole")
john


Hey there Ignatz!

ur right.. just like the prophet jesus (or just about any prophet) there is no drawn picture of what the prophet muhammad looked like, although there were some people (from his time) that wrote what he looked like,

Well to answer ur question... No, its not connecting islam with terrorism (although it pisses the hell out of everyone) it is the fact that the prophet was made a mockery of in a public newspaper that was blasphemy.

How do we know its the prophet? simple, the newspaper asked anyone with a talent in carecatures to draw up what they think the islamic prophet muhammad looks like or acts like or whatever.. and another reason is that if u saw the translated cartoons it clearly says in some of them that the person drawn is the the final prophet (PBUH) muhammad...

oh and how do i join this "Great Coalition for World Peace Through the Vigorous Training in Kendo ("Don't be an a-hole")"??? im really interested :D

[Mr. T.]

oh and how do i join this "Great Coalition for World Peace Through the Vigorous Training in Kendo ("Don't be an a-hole")"??? im really interested :D

That's simple. If our honourable chairman, Mr. Ignaz, thinks you’re worth it, you can join. You have to promote world peace by practicing kendo vigorously (or iai to promote world harmony, in my case). As you have noticed in this tread and in seen on the news, we lack members because war and insults are still present on this tiny planet of ours. So I think you're most welcome. We still need a few billion members to accomplice our goals.

[Fonsz]

...

oh and how do i join this "Great Coalition for World Peace Through the Vigorous Training in Kendo ("Don't be an a-hole")"??? im really interested :D
Hello Moe,
Good to hear that you're doing fine and that Kendo is becoming what you thought of it or at least gives you pleasure so to speak.
Now about this coaltion it's a coalition of Countries right now all over the world who propagate World Peace whilst screaming over the top of your lungs and hitting each other over the head.
Mr. T is on probation untill he can prove that Iaido folks do sweat while they practice. So you see we are quite open and generous we even allow Iaidoka in our select company. We also think that we should at least have the intention to meet each other to practice what we preach with each other all over the world.
Last but not least we solemnly swear not to be an a-hole. This means we like to keep to the lighter side of serious problems over which we have no control. You just proved it by writing sensibly about the cartoons that are slowly burning up and dividing the world.
Send your apply to the President of this great institution, the right honorable Mr. Ignatz and the whole world will embrace you for the sake of World Peace.

[Mr. T.]

Mr. T is on probation untill he can prove that Iaido folks do sweat while they practice. So you see we are quite open and generous we even allow Iaidoka in our select company. We also think that we should at least have the intention to meet each other to practice what we preach with each other all over the world.


I’m still on probation? :eek: Can any of my fellow iaidoka explain to the sweaty kendoka that iaido is not an old mans game, but an art that requires a lot of sweat and hard work, if you train hard of course. The "World Kendo Peace Alliance" (we've got to find a name for this thing) doesn't believe me:down: