Womens Kendo

[gill]

Apologies to the guys for getting all girly, but as there aren't many of us around, this is a great place to find out stuff!

I would like to find a way to get more women into kendo - and stick at it, so I am interested to know what attracted the women to take up kendo in the first place?

Also how many women there are generally in clubs in different countries, and are your national associations doing anything in particular to try and develop kendo for women? Also, do you know any women who have given up, and do you know why?

For me, I went to a demonstration, as one of my friends did kendo, and it just looked so much fun, and after my first class I was hooked. (My mother is convined it's cause you get to hit guys over the hear and scream MENNNNN! at the top of your voice, which I must say is an added advantage....:p )

In most clubs in the UK there may be one, possibly two women, although there are a few clubs in London with several) The number of women training here seems to be slowly increasing. The association are looking to increase the female membership, but it is a question of how to go about it......:confused:

cheers!!!

Gill :D

[KenD'OH]

i guess kendo is just like any other martial arts where the majority of participants are men. though i never understood why.

Ive got a couple of girls in my dojo, but only 2 seniors. Mostly juniors. Some girls like to watch kendo tho, (mainly for cute guys). :)

cheers

[kendo_chick]

For me, getting interested in Kendo took a while. I liked the idea of it, but my boyfriend was in it and I didn't want to seem like I was imposing on his territory. So that means, for the first year or so I watch every kendo practise that he attended.

I decided August of last year that I would like to try it out for myself, just to see what it was like. I started in the beginner class and realized that I had learned most of the beginner stuff (how to hold a shinai, footwork, etc) by watching my boyfriend. I went straight into the "advanced" class and starting wearing bogu that September.

There are very few women in my club. I think that was one of the things that interested me. I wanted to do something that was for the most part a man's sport. I wanted to show people, and myself that I was able to do anything that the men could do. We now have 6 women in our club, 3 of which are on exchange from Japan so they won't be around for long. One girl just started wearing bogu and the other is a little more advanced.

I think the key to getting a lot of women interested in kendo is to have women in kendo be part of the seminars and demos. But the problem arises when you have no women in the first place.

We have only had a couple of women quit. Some just moved away, but a couple have left because they don't like having bruises and welts. Actually we had some men quit because of that. And the number one reason that a lot of people leave kendo, at least in my club, is lack of interest. They enjoy the social aspect, but don't particulary like the sport.

I would love to have more women in my club, so if anyone has any really good ideas on how to encourage women to start it up, please tell me!

[reicheru]

I decided to try out the kendo club at my university after seeing 2 friends fooling around with some shinai. When I started, I was the only female from my class (I was in my last year of college at the time), but a bunch of younger women joined at the same time, and by now I've heard that there's quite a good balance at that dojo (maybe even a female majority? there are others on this forum who would know).

Here in Japan, I train mostly with junior high school students (some elementary school, a few senior high). About half are female. Of the 5 junior high students who tested for (and passed) the shodan exam in July, 4 were girls. I don't know how many of them will continue with kendo in the future, but for now they've made a pretty strong commitment to it. I think a large part of the reason that there's such a good balance of boys and girls at my dojo here (and probably at my college dojo as well) is that none of the sensei treat the girls any differently from the boys...

[Henning]

Stockholm Kendo in Sweden is hosting a "ladies camp"
http://stockholmkendo.com/nationalteam/article.asp?articleID=1350&articleCategoryID=9
Guess this can be a way to keep women in Kendo.
This year we have 4 new women starting up in our club. I will get back to you after x-mas telling you how many are still with us. :)

[CypherSushi]

right now I am the only active woman in out very small club. I don't mind though even if it would be fun with some other girl to talk to about ... well female problems. The fact that there are mostly guys in the club never stopped me... but then again I am have mostly male friends so it is quite natural to me. Guess I am kind of a tomboy.

and I agree with gill, hitting guys over the head screming at the top of ones lungs is a big part of why it is so damn fun!
The guys in my club don't bother that I am a girl.... they never hold back their cuts and I am thankful for that.

[Antonin]

Dear all,
About this topic, I have heard recently that there are 400 women doing kendo in France. Just to keep things in perspective, this is the same number of people doing kendo in the UK, total ! Why is it so ? i am not sure, but kendo is quite big in France ayhow, so....

[Confound]

O! let's fix it by using an 'equal opportunity selection programme'. not.

Why try to recruit women only? If we're interested in promoting kendou, why not try to attract people of all ages and all walks of life? As a woman who is darned fed up with 'feminism' and 'women's ways of knowing' (or 'women's ways of <insert ANYTHING>), I'd like to say that I don't give a darn if more women come to kendou practice or not. I just want to see this art get the recognition it deserves.

c

[KenD'OH]

some kendo girls in my dojo are pretty cute! :)

[mingshi]

Half right only, my dear Confound.

Yes, Kendo need more promotion.
Esp. in countries outside Japan, how many of them have seen people hitting each other with bamboo sticks and dress like Darth Vader? When I show some pics of Kendo in my international class, only 1 non-Japanese can tell it's KENDO (out of 20). Pathetic.

I also pick up Kendo after seeing a real-life demonstration. But that's very different because I've seen ALL of it in Manga and Anime etc., plus the extreme amount of Kungfu movies available in HK. There're TV programs showing kids in Japanese schools doing Kendo, and for a long time I thought it's only available to those kids... Don't forget my Dad also does a few Martial Arts... IMHO people won't pick up some Martial Arts on their 1st sight, otherwise everyone will sign up for Kungfu classes after seeing Crouching Tiger.

People need that CLICK, "Yes, I'd go for Kendo!". Which depends on who you are and when you know about it. For me it's the real life action.
-----

More female Kendoka are needed. Although I don't mind, but we still need them.

Take any sports for example. Anyway all sports are dominated by men, to be honest, with the exception of... gymnastics, synchronized swimming, etc. (I can't think of anything else right now.) Men's sports rely heavily on physical built, while when it's women's turn, they'll benefit by their flexibility+techinque. For example, there is a great different between men & women's soccer, men & women's basketball, etc. etc. So as in Kendo.

Don't really believe that in Kendo you hold a sword so both men and women are equal. Theoretically yes, BUT... I'm not talking about Senpai/Sensei with far better experience than you. There's a very high chance of female beginners who, because of their size, savaged by another beginner (usually male). Men really likes going for tai-atari (to show how strong they can push people around), and also they miss A LOT OF Dou cuts!!! Which really hurts! There's nothing you can do if you are a small girl holding a bamboo stick. I can see in their face the girls won't like this kind of thing. Last year ... only one female beginner stay in my club (out of another 7)!!

A month ago I started going to a club with a lot more girls in it (around 6). Every single one of them is more experienced than me so I've learnt a lot. Many fast Kote cuts, for example. Not only I learn their techniques, but also that, "Hey, girls around my size can be that good too!" Something that you would not know if you are the only "girl". It shows something I can really reach if I try.

I don't think my Sensei has been particularly easy on girls. Equal opportunities right? And I still hold the record of "most frequently falling on the dojo floor" :p

p.s. Edward/ KenD'oh: I don't think the girls are watching the cute guys... If they want cute guys they should go for other places... Everybody is in armour how can they see their cute face?? BTW maybe it's that reason that there is limited cute guys around...

[KenD'OH]

mingshi: haha, i might be mistaken then. ;) ive been to practices a few times (i just started kendo) and there are girls watching everytime. and since juniors dont' have bogu's yet, we just practice with our shinai so the men wouldn't block the face.

i don't know. maybe my dojo is just wierd then! :)

[ben]

We have a range of women at our club, and because its a University club, we're always losing members after graduation. So we are constantly needing to replace those people. What has emerged over the last 10 years however is quite a strong social network amongst the members which seems to get passed on to the newcomers. It is also something which operates democratically, outside the sempai/kohai structure of the dojo. This helps everyone stay interested, but I particularly think is why we have quite a high number of women in the club (half of all the women kendoka at the recent Australian University Games were from our club). Some women do kendo to test themselves and to excel. But for the women (and men) who don't aim to be Australian Champion, the social aspect is what keeps them coming to training when things get tough. IMHO.
b

[Dee Hanson]

There are very few women in the UK who do kendo, less than 100 at a guess but I have found a very supportive atmosphere form fellow female kendo people. The meeting up at competitions and other events is always nice, because we are so few we like to cheer each other along.
My own Dojo is possibly one of the most testosterone pickled in England but it is assumed that I am one of the lads and the only problem I have is the tasteless sense of humour and the higher than average expectations of my alcohol intake. Seriously though Kendo has a lot to offer women especially as those grey hairs appear , it is one active martial art which is full contact; demands that you keep your head and control of your body with out having some one dump you increasingly brittle bones on a mat ! Keno is not something that gives victory to the biggest and butchest but to the fastest and most skilled and so men and women can compete on a fair footing .
I came to kendo at a late age an found it tough, it is still one of the hardest things I have ever done and will always be so. Being a lone woman in a blokes dojo is psychologically difficult but then was any thing easy worth doing ?
My niece now comes to kendo and she has taken a lot of help and advice from other women we have met from other dojos this has helped her understand that she can do it and that it is not some thing done by crazy aunty.
The more women that do kendo then the more women it will attract. Kendo is kendo who ever is behind that mask . Kendo is also about solving a physical puzzle in micro seconds; men and women can have different perspectives on how to do this and the more perspectives that you have the better your kendo !
I started kendo because I was looking for a hockey club and trailed in to the sports centre instead I found some guys in skirts bashing each other with sticks. My life, views and liver changed for ever.

[CypherSushi]

Confound: I wholeheartedly agree with your views on feminism but strangely I think that maybe beginners classes for girl would be something good. later on the girls would of course be included with the rest of the club, but I think that as beginners many girls get frightend because of the high sound level and such things. Society in general raise little girls to be silent and compliant. That goes very much against the kendo style where you actually get points for screaming at the top of your lungs and being pushy. So there for I think that a beginners class where the girls would get a crash course in screaming and pushing ie the stuff most guys learned on the schoolyard, might get more girls to stay.

On a sidenote... another part why I stay... I get to whack my little brother over the head on a regular basis :D

[Tato]

Herrr, ....

In the discusion of changing the way of doing things vs changing society (for the better) I'm for the seccond option. Let's change society.

We really need to educate the new generations on a better way, it's ok that occidental (and I guess that oriental) girls are bred to be cute and fashion (it's fun, and we the men we use to like girls that way), but we can show them that's compatible with a richer life.

No, I'm against separate beginers clases, as I'm against anything that goes in this direction. And, sorry, I don't belive that you can bring no one into kendo, the only way they would come and stay is trough a (usualy complex) act of self decision.

The only thing we can do is promoting kendo, so it's better known by more people, so they can chose, but as a specialist of promoting things, I tell you that you will find yourself easely on a slipery surface. Today, real promotion means "compromise" and "commercial", and "selling", and "product dessing", I'm not sure would I like to mix those concepts with Kendo. So promotion, yes, but let's be carefull.

By the way, in my dojo we have a couple of women, plus one more who started just now. The first two are by far my seniors, and use to give me many good leassons. If a manage to improve in Kendo is in a big way thanks to them.

Rei.

[Antonin]

Dee,
100 women doing kendo in the UK ? err.... I think not. counting the japanese and the kids, I think I reach about 30 that I know of. I happen to practice in the dojo Mingshi talked about a few post earlier, and I go to most seminars and shiai, so if there are 70 more hiding around, I'd be very surprised... If my memory serves me right, i think there was around 5 or 6 women at the 'kangeiko' (quotes needed, as it is a 'kangeiko' by name only...).
Just trying to keep numbers in perspective here ! There is some wrk to do in the UK to attract more women to do some kend, for sure, but it will start by trying to get more people to do kendo full stop !
Antonin

[sjp]

Its Ok Antonin

Dee cant count past her number of fingers & toes, does not know any good jokes and is always the first to stop drinking


We dont know why we put up with her :)

[CypherSushi]

I am a girl myself if you missed that part... I am also well aware that society needs changing and I am all for it doing so... but I do think that it will take a generation or so to change it. I was raised to stand up for myself and to never let the fact that I have breasts stand in the way of me doing what I want. I will raise my own children that way and I hope that many more do so.

But as my point was in my earlier post. It is the ones in my generation that need to be helped along to maybe even get the chance to make that consious decision. Therefor I think that a beginners class for girls would get more girls to dare to try this wonderful sport, and the more that try it the more can stay. Right?

[CypherSushi]

My reply was to Tato by the way.... sorry for any misunderstanding and I also appologise for any spelling errors.

[Tato]

Yes, I was aware that you're a girl. I'm not so sure abouth the posibility of doing separate beginner clases, outside universities it will be hard to get an apreciable number to start with.

In any case, I'm just giving an opinion, if you can do some test, and if it works, it would be my pleasure to propose doing the same thing in our dojo. (I'm too junior to propose it right now)

Rei

(By the way, don't apologize for your spelling, mine is much worst, and I know it, :( )

[gill]

Originally posted by Confound
O! let's fix it by using an 'equal opportunity selection programme'. not.

Why try to recruit women only? If we're interested in promoting kendou, why not try to attract people of all ages and all walks of life? As a woman who is darned fed up with 'feminism' and 'women's ways of knowing' (or 'women's ways of <insert ANYTHING>), I'd like to say that I don't give a darn if more women come to kendou practice or not. I just want to see this art get the recognition it deserves.

c

Confound,

I agree whole heartedly that we need to attract more people to kendo full stop - no matter who they are and where they come from, however there is a distinct inbalance between the number of women and men taking up kendo, and I am trying to find a way to try and help redress that balance

If kendo was predominantly women, and you were the only guy in the dojo, surely you would be seeking out other guys who had the same interest as you? If for no other reason than to have someone to chat to in the changing room!!! :(

I aplogise if you feel this is inbalanced, but that is why the post was called womens kendo, and had an apology at the beginning for getting girly, but it is only through forums like this that we can exchange this type of information. I am sure that a discussion on how to promote kendo to the world at large would make a very interesting thread.

Gill

[Kenshi]

I would say that the problem in the UK - and many other countries - is the lack of senior female kendoka in the organisation/association (I am thinking godan+).

If we had senior female (or more senior-ish) role models who could mix-it-up with the guys, then - I predict - we would see more females enter into the dojo and stay longer.

Persons like GILL above are on the top-rung of active female kendoka in the U.K. :cool:

Of-course, this is only 1 piece of the puzzle, but I thought Id mention it as no one else has.

[antonin, btw, 400 is under exagerated by at least 50%]

Cheers,

[Confound]

Japanese girls are the most girly-girly, hyperfeminine pieces of fluff I've ever encountered in my worldly travels. They cry over a bump in the hall, and they fall down onto the floor melodramatically and dissolve into tears over something small and stupid like a classroom door being locked after school. (She just wanted to go in and hang out, not get a forgotten item or something.)

Yet, these girls are not frightened by the yelling and screaming. Don't argue that it's because kendou is a part of their culture. I've met some Japanese kids who have no idea what kendou is, or what iaidou might be. if those girls, who walk with their hands flat out by their sides, and affect pigeon toes because they want to be cute (then end up with knock knees 10 years later), can handle kendou, then I'm sure any western woman can.

Someone who gets put off by the 'pushing' or the 'painful strikiing' probably doesn't want to do kendou anyway. if you're that much of a wimp, then I probably wouldn't want to waste my valuable dojo time trying to ease you into kendou. I don't do kendou for dummies. I don't do ANYTHING for dummies.

I have tolerance for the girls in my club, because their culture teaches them that they have to be incompetant and stupid, it isn't their fault when they can't do something right after 50 tries. They're not only trying to do it right, they have to do battle with their own impulse to do it WRONG just to be cute.

That said, I didn't exactly have an easy time when I first started. Members of my first dojo would literally tell me, "We do not want you here." I stayed. I persevered. I train somewhere else now, and when I go bakc there, I get the respect that was earned by that one year of perseverence.

in kendou, as in any other martial art, or life in general, things that you work hard for will have more meaning. we don't like to work in modern society, we prefer to coast. if you want to coast in my training group, you can coast right on out the door, and back to your house.

c

[CypherSushi]

Confound, I am not talking about going easy on the girls that might end up in the separate beginners class. I am talking about them daring to take the hits and maybe even raise their voices without having to wonder "what does that cute guy think of me now".
I think that an all female beginners class would help girls/women to get over that first step and actually continue with Kendo.

[James]

Originally posted by gill

...I aplogise if you feel this is inbalanced, but that is why the post was called womens kendo, and had an apology at the beginning for getting girly...
Gill really has no need to apologise for this. She has raised a question that anyone who is a member of a kendo association like in the UK with such a poor ratio of women to men - should probably be concerned with.

As Antonin and Confound say this is just not the same globally, in France or Japan or the United States, the situation is different with much higher participation and retention of female members.

As George points out the role models of higher grades, is one aspect (well done Gill on your grading!). However as far as role models go, if we look at the successes of the women's and men's teams recently we could say the women were way out in front (no pun intended).

Along with others on this forum, I am not generally for so-called 'positive discrimination', but as someone who sometimes teaches technical subjects to mixed groups I am always frustrated and dismayed at the tendency of some girls (for whatever reason) to put themselves to the back of the class when there are boys around.

In places like Japan, apart from the kendo culture, in education there is often some kind of segregation where sports etc. are learnt, there are several 'women only' Universities for example, and if this environment helps women engage in something not distracted/threatened by men, then maybe some kind of segregated 'introduction to kendo' as CyperhSushi says may not be a bad experiment.

I think that the association in the UK should certainly be trying anything they can think of as the situation is, I would say chronically, bad.

As a member of the dojo that Mingshi mentioned earlier, the comeraderie of the women and the teaching environment of that particular dojo has meant retaining a strong group of women members; and the members of the dojo, always go out of their way to make beginners feel comfortable. So on a local level it can work, however on a national level, it seems most dojos have one or two women if that.

It seems to me the main problem seems to be getting them through the door in the first place. Which means raising awareness of kendo as a womens activity. (As well as raising awareness of it as an activity in general).

In Korea apparently there was a soap opera where one character was female kendoka, and every morning she did her suburi before going out to work. Seeing this as a regualr activity for women the popularity of kumdo for women sky-rocketed.

Confound, I kind of agree with your sentiments but If you look at Gill's first post - she is not advocating anything, she is rather asking an open ended question, and one that needs asking, (at least here in the UK).














:alien:

[Confound]

James,

I was a little heavy handed. I'll justify it by saying that it's an issue that really carries many little post-it notes and past irritations. I really don't like the idea of segregating men and women, it smacks of condescention, I see it here too plainly.

Honestly speaking, I fervently (perhaps rabidly), believe that anyone who truly wants to study kendou will not be deterred by anything short of brain damage. Be they woman or man, a dedicated individual will remain so no matter what problems arise.

That said, I also hate dojo bullies. upper yudansha who like to pick on their kohais. I'll admit that I've never met a woman who behaves like that, but my experience is limited. I can't extrapolate from it to generalize that all women are good sempais.

c

[James]

Originally posted by Confound
James,
I was a little heavy handed. I'll justify it by saying that it's an issue that really carries many little post-it notes and past irritations. I really don't like the idea of segregating men and women, it smacks of condescention, I see it here too plainly.


Don't mind your heavy hand, I like that slapping sounds, good kiai too!,as I said I generally agree with you about segregation, but I think Gill was casting around for strategies or ideas as to how to improve things in the context of the UK, and CypherSushi's idea may have some validity.

Honestly speaking, I fervently (perhaps rabidly), believe that anyone who truly wants to study kendou will not be deterred by anything short of brain damage. Be they woman or man, a dedicated individual will remain so no matter what problems arise.


However as a strong women who is already dedicated to kendou, I would respectfully say people like you are not in the equation.
The question is surely about women who do not know they ...

truly wants to study kendou and how can it be made appealing , (or in this country, even visible) to them.
I agree what you say about bullies too, but before we even talk about retention of students, we have to get them through the door.
In the dojo which Mingshi talks of, apart from an excellent sensei who treats all students with sensitivity yet without condescention; I would say the thing that appeals to women about this dojo is that there are already quite a few women in the dojo (some medal-winning national team members) . It's a bit of a Catch 22.
For dojo's without any female members, I think new women coming through the door may not see it as a female sport, even if told otherwise, probably knowing nothing about kendo at that stage.

In this country this is part of wider question of how we interest people in general, as Antonin points out in Frace there are now lots more kendoka, even though kendo came to the UK first.
I think Gill is right in looking for strategies targeted at women due to the dicrepancy in this country. For example we may need particular strategies to answer the quitestion "how can we get more young people interested in kendo?" with which we also have a poor ratio in this country, and some kind of targeted approach may be appropriate.

My wife had the chance when she was seven years old in Japan of practicing in a group with other girls in primary school, and also seeing women only tournaments. In this country we can manage only one women's tournament, and that struggles from year to year to find enough participants, and there are only two dojos that I know of that take seven year olds, most of which are the kids of Japanese ex pats. It is in this context that the question needs answers.

[laurien]

Originally posted by gill

I would like to find a way to get more women into kendo - and stick at it, so I am interested to know what attracted the women to take up kendo in the first place?

Also how many women there are generally in clubs in different countries, and are your national associations doing anything in particular to try and develop kendo for women? Also, do you know any women who have given up, and do you know why?



Gill,
A perfectly valid question. In my short kendo career (four years), there were many times I thought that it would be nice to have some women kendo buddies. As you say, just to have someone to talk to in the change room, but also, to have someone the same size to fight against! I went to two dojo, and at both I was easily the smallest member. Proportionately speaking, I must have taken more than my share of a thumping.

So, I think that ON OCCASSION it would be nice to be able to have some shiai/ji-geiko within the same weight/height class. How do you do that when most dojo don't have very many members? I dunno. Maybe some regional good-will tournaments with OPTIONAL weight/height categories - but not split by gender. (I think as Mingshi mentioned in her experience), when you have the opportunity to play against someone your own size for a change, you can stop guarding against being squashed for a little bit. It would be a new dimension!! Well, theoretically. I never had that opportunity, I'm just speculating. Whadayathink?

Not that I mind playing against the boys, mind you. They are/were like second family. I fell in love with kendo the moment I saw a picture of it, and I still love it today, even though I have not practiced for several years. In a nut-shell, the reasons I stayed with it for four years: speed, timing, spirit. The reason I am no longer doing it: I moved to a small town of 700 people, about five hours from the nearest dojo. (Nope, no brain damage.)

Okay, aside from ensuring that a dojo has good social activities aside from practice, (as other posters mentioned), I would say that it's important that the activities are ones that everyone can enjoy. Ie., going for a beer after practice is great, but not if it excludes some members.

Also, how about promotional club or tournament posters that feature women kendoka?

Lastly, I personally think that kendo would be more enjoyable if there was a bit less bruising involved. I dream of a better designed kote ... and do! Even one of the bigger and beefier sempai at my dojo used one of those kote-protectors. However, I don't expect you to open up your own bogu design company. But hey, since you're an electical engineer... maybe you know some material engineers?

Just a few thoughts. Good luck, Gill!

laurien

[Denryuu]

Well, at my dojo there is only 1 girl and most guys make fun of her. I think that one of the reasons that women aren't so much into kendou is because the sport seems pretty agressive and painfull at first sight(which it is). Once my mom watched me taking a class and watched some of the more advanced students having duels, and she told me that she was SCARED!!!!

[CypherSushi]

I really don't think that making fun of someone for being a girl goes very well with the respact that i feel Kendo is all about.
Of course people get scared.... I still get scared, after all people are coming after me with a bamboostick, but that doesn't hinder me for going out there and having fun.

[Confound]

People make fun of her? How odd. What a bunch of weirdos. She needs to bring in gill or some high ranking woman for a lesson or two. Yes, you're all seperated by the vast land mass that is Europe, but honestly, I can't really sit well with a woman being mocked in a dojo for no apparent reason. What infantile individuals. Poor woman. Hopefully she doesn't quit.

c

[Atama]

I totally agree with Dee..

I started kendo because my boyfriend decided he wanted to have a go, and after watchin my first class the temptation to hit my boyfriend with a big stick was too much for me to walk away.

Although womens kendo is in the minority in the uk it is definately growing, in the short time that I have been doing kendo I am seeing more and more new female faces walking through the door. It totally helps when they see other women on level playing field with the men.

We had 2 more women join our club this month and they can't wait to get in bogu, which is great because oppertunities to fight other women are few and far between. We need some womens kendo seminars.

[CypherSushi]

I was at a womens kendo seminar last weekend and it was sooo much fun! I learned lots and got to meet many nice female kendoka.
It was defenetly worth dragging my bogu though all of Stockholm and spending money I really didn't have :)

[nodachi]

It does help women to join Kendo when they see other female faces. I would be a little intimidated walking into a club to find out that I was the only male in the club. My Kendo club started out with one female member. Then another joined. And now the club is half women. Landslide effect. It can just be very strange to join a club or sport being the only person of your gender there, for men or women. Kendo is still depicted as a male sport. I spoke to a Japanese woman the other day. In her junior high school experience, the boys got to choose between Kendo club or Judo club, while the women only got to join a jump rope club. I find that rather strange and upsetting.

[KATSUJIN]

hmmm...well here in singapore.....the number of people joining kendo is increasing now...especially the number of girls...my club...or rather the club in my school has abt 12 to 15 girls( roughly) who r still practising......which i think is pretty good already compared to the past..generally in singapore we do have more girls now....perhaps for a stated rumour that girls here have a unusual effect on other girls, which makes them stay.....i think.....

[KhawMengLee]

Damn shiok or not, ar? ;)

[saki_wooah]

Hm there's a big number of girls in our dojo, though a couple of them don't come regularly. Our club president is a girl, and she is nidan. I think most of them kept on practicing because our sensei is very nice, and the club's motto is Happy Kendo. I wanted to continue because I find kendo fun and it's a good way to spend my energy (those boring school teachers aren't enough). I'm more active than before too... I think that if you're afraid of hitting a wall or cry when you scratch yourself, kendo is definitly not for you!

[2muchryt]

at the level of the all japan high school and college championships,womens kendo in japan is truly amazing. they really dont appear to be female or male
(or even human for that matter), just amazing kenshi. i really wish
kendo world mag would do a feature on the truly dramatic topic of
the japanese high school/college female kenshi, their sensei/coaches,
training, and the road some of them take to make it to the championship.

[stephkendo]

Hi Gill,
hope you remember me (Jims neice)from Taiseidokai.I agree with you 100% get more 'chicks' into kendo.Im sure its not just the women up here in Glasgow that would appreciate some more female appearances-do you?knowing this lot?lol!Well up here theres Heather.myself,Maureen and a new woman Ruth,and i think 3 not in armour but its not clear if they'll stick or not.Hope so,we're getting a good crowd going!In fact Thursday night there Gerry was complaining of wanting more women to come along-haha!

Take care
Steph x

[Paburo]

Tato, what about the japanese and nikkei girls at nihonjin gakkou? don't they count as women too?! damn you!
(in our dojo, students who are less than 18 yrs old are mostly japanese or nikkei, and are mostly girls).

kendo 'seems' like an overly rough sport/martial art(and sometimes it is). that's why some women(men too, in a lesser grade) feel intimidated when they first see it.

it helps if at demonstrations, girls show they can kick ass. it also helps if boys don't be too brutal with women while they are still too young and learning.
(some of our guys actually do the same 100% brute force conan uchi tai-atari kendo with 15 yr old girls. needless to say, that scares the hell out of them).

moral is: be nice with girls, so they join(or don't quit) your dojo.

[GMason]

Don_Lubo

I can't agree with you here at all. Granted some women/girls, can be very girly and wouldn't like to do Kendo. But I know quite a few men who would hate it too. Each to their own.

But the women who stick with Kendo, are every bit as physical and skillful as the men.

We have a couple of women at our Dojo, Atama being one of them, and we cut them no slack at all, I think Atama will agree with me that she would hate it if we did, and probably be insulted.

I also practice with a lass from Macau, who is crazy when it comes to kendo she loves to fence men who are about double her size the higher grade the better, so she can and I quote "Beat them up".

I have fenced with, or seen most of the women from England who are on this board, and I don't think I would consider any of them girly when it comes to fencing.

OK I've replied and now I think I will also reach for the ignore button.

[Kenshi]

Keeping on track....

Is there anyone out there who has actually ran a dojo and attempted to recruit more students, particularly by targetting a particular type? I mean, kids, women, upper middle class (!), etc etc - you get my point.

What did you do and was it successful?

btw, the best and nicest kendoka I fought last year was a Japanese Uni Champion from Fukuoka [female]. I havent been so amazed at someones kendo in... years.

Cheers,

[Neil Gendzwill]

We've never tried to target people. The single most important thing we did was to change location. We're now part of the programming at the local YMCA which gives us a central location, publicity and respectability. Before we were renting space in a school gym, and changing locations every year or two as the school board dicked us around.

Aside from a good location and good practice times, our postering campaign nets us the most newbies. We also get a few from our website. Every second year we do demos and have a booth at a cultural festival which causes a definite jump in the number of newbies.

[Tato]

Yes, the Website is a great asset (Paburo where are you?), that's how many of our new recruits arrive to the dojo, and that how I arrived to the dojo!

hurra for the web! hip hip...

Rei

[mingshi]

During last Xmas 3 Japanese female Sensei, two 7th Dan and 1 6th Dan, visited Hong Kong.

But they ran out of time because everyone was trying to queue for them. I managed to practice very briefly with two of them.

A local female Sensei (5th Dan) warned us that female Sensei are generally tougher. And indeed they are!! Towards the end of the session I was waiting for one... So glad to witness some militant Sensei got brutally beaten up!!!! Revenge time, you bastards!! Hahahahahaha:D!!!

I was looking for inspiration, and now they are my new Kendo idols!!!:p

I was told that there were only around thirty 7thDan women. But I wonder if there is any 6th Dan and above/ high grades Gaijin women in other parts of the world?

[don_lubo]

I repeat:
KenD'OH:"i guess kendo is just like any other martial arts where the majority of participants are men. though i never understood why."
Kendo Chick:"I wanted to show people, and myself that I was able to do anything that the men could do"
CypherSushi:"and I agree with gill, hitting guys over the head screming at the top of ones lungs is a big part of why it is so damn fun!"

That's why kendo is not for girls and women....

inner_cent:You are just asking for trouble when you keep on bring up this kind racial/sexual discrimination comment....
Mister inner_cent you're winning nothing with this.Go cringe somewhere else:mad:

[inner_cent]

Originally posted by Tashaki Nakata
"girls have more balls than men ;) They will kick your ass"
-see toots, i said that on a public forum. Want me to shag you senseless?

Inner_cent, instead of looking sexually desperate in public, you can stay in bed and watch the powerpuff girls.

Wat the ..... ?!
I was Flaming Dou_Lubo here ....... got told off by someone ?!
Mmm ah ... Think I'll hide in Bush now..... Anyone (except Dou_lubo) got offended by my phrase, Do accept my Apology please.. ..........

[nodachi]

" CypherSushi:"and I agree with gill, hitting guys over the head screaming at the top of ones lungs is a big part of why it is so damn fun!"

That's why kendo is no for girls and womens.... "

What do you mean by saying that the above stated reason is why Kendo is not for girls or women???

I know quite a few people, male and female, who enjoy Kendo for this very reason. Granted, Kendo needs to be taken seriously, I do think this, but the elements that make it fun, like hitting people over the head and yelling at the top of one's lungs, are necessary to keep people interested.

If it wasn't fun, people wouldn't do it. That's human nature. Just because they enjoy hitting people over the head and yelling doesn't mean they don't take Kendo seriously and that they should quit, or else a large number of us would just disappear from Kendo altogether, men and women.

Isn't this the point where someone says "plonk", or did I just overlook it? :)

[dorkusxmaximus]

Do you know how stupid you sound, don_lubo? You're such a freaking moron. I can't believe you're in kendo.

[don_lubo]

Thank you so much dorkusmaximus!:)

[kendo_chick]

Okay don_lubo, how would you like it if I told you that Bulgarians can't play kendo and that they shouldn't practise? That is just about as dumb and as accurate as saying kendo is not for women. I'd love to have a shiai with you. Maybe I could show you just how much kendo is FOR women!

[Atama]

It dosen't phase me in the slightest weather or not kendo is for women ...I hear it all the time in my line of work but that hasn't stoped me It just pushes me to exel at it more.

The good thing about kendo is anyone can do it young, old, male, female, you don't have to be super fit or be able to break bricks with your head. The only thing you need to do to become a kendoka is have the ability to swing a shinai over your head if you can do that then you have as good a chance as any.

And to the guys who have a problem with women doing kendo well it seems to me that you got some issues.

And remember "Hell hath no fury like a womens scorn"


Lisa (Do Shin Ken Yu Kai)

[Tashaki Nakata]

dorkusmaximus, you didn't agree with don_lubo so you insulted him. What was the point in that?

[Karaken]

Back to the original purpose..
Gill said,

I would like to find a way to get more women into kendo - and stick at it, so I am interested to know what attracted the women to take up kendo in the first place?

Many years ago there was a hot soap opera in Korean. Many boys and girl went to KUMDO dojo after watching one of the COOL characters who happened to be a Kenshi and a bodyguard.

They said the same thing about Star Wars II - but I don't think it did anything for Kendo..Not even close..

Take the Center - keep it there

[dorkusxmaximus]

Umm no point really, Tashaki. I was just being immature.

[Tashaki Nakata]

Apparently.
And....what's the point in that?

[dorkusxmaximus]

I was angry at what I read, that's all. I apologize for being such a kid.

[CypherSushi]

*pointedly ignores don_lubo...again*

My first post in quite a while. I just wanted to say that we have a big problem getting girls to train in our club now, it might be cause both I and the other girl in the club has been injured/sick. I am finally recovering from a vicious viral infection to my lungs and hope to be back in training in a week or so.

I would be interested to know if someone has any experience in getting girls/women to train in a small town as mine is. Any special marketing that should be done?

[bronxjragon]

Where are all the kendo ladies in NYC? Show some love!

[nodachi]

Cyphersushi,

You gotta find groups of women to join simultaneously. Then they won't feel so out of place. My club is now half women. One joined individually, but all the others joined together. It's the whole support group mentality, know what I mean? Being an individual can be intimidating, but joining with friends makes things feel more comfortable and fun.

Maybe advertising and providing discounts on the initial club joining fee if you bring a friend along who sticks with it.

[gill]

I'm with Nodachi on this one - you tend to find that if there are a few women in the club already, you are more likely to get others joining (there are the odd exceptions.......not that I'm calling anyone odd:p )

Cybersushi, I suggest the best way to try and bring more women in is to make sure that there is a female presence at any demonstrations / events - and if possible try to have an even balance of men and women. I know this is hard if there are only one or two of you - but its better than there being none at all!

Gill :D

[Sinta]

Wow my first post!

Eitherways, Women's Kendo. I woman and I do kendo! Actually I was quite surprised that a good few of the active members in my club are women. We have around 5 including me. Sure there are 40 "members" but we are around 10 - 12 always active Kendokas who always come twice a week for training. And out of this twelve, there are always at least 3 women participating actively (me too!) .

Sure I found it hard at the beginning and still find it hard after I had a break due to health cirumstances. But the philosophy and the way of the sword intrigue me and keep me commited.

[stephkendo]

I sense that the release of Tom Cruise's new film will see an influx in female participation in Kendo-so be it but for the wrong reason.You are all in Kendo and can all see that yes it is a male-dominated art in most of the world, but those who have the right attitude will be able to say that it is not about whether you are fencing a man or a woman, and by no means should someone like don_lubo say that kendo is not for women.i sincerely hope that he doesn't disrespect any women in his dojo in such a way otherwise he is the one not for kendo.Like most things in the world women are the minority but over time numbers even out-we can already see this in Kendo.I'd like to see don_lubo voice hs opinions to the best female kendoka in Japan and fence them to prove his point.