concept of indifferences...

[SOLDIER]

hopefully we can all be friends...with saying that i do not feel i bashed anyones posts....nor do i feel like i disrepected anyones threads..could someone please tell me why when " I " post that changes to the latter...someone telling me how disrespectful iam..someone is a sensei...or so and so has been doing kendo for 20 years...hey thats cool and all that but...i want all of you to know something...i practice kendo for " MY" own personal reasons...and i do not feel i have to justify my rank, race or where i trained and how i trained to anyone...i only post on here while i work so as to past the time by quicker. i figured a whole forum dedicated to kendoka,,,i wonder???? but it seems alot of people are misreading me...i just want to clear the air......you guys have your country and your dojo and your style of kendo..you also have your family your habits and your job....in other words live and let live.....iam not trying to convince you or take anybody on my road. i just wanted to see if some of the training i did was normal for everyone.....i guess not..my sensei (DR.J.YAMAMOTO) told me before i keiko'd with him the first time ..he said " just do good kendo, and have fun"...thats it nothing more...i hate to be a killjoy for some of you..but kendo is not a life or death art to me...i have a rifle and several friends with rifles(my platoon) for that. so to make a short story long...i do kendo for me...me ...and no one but me...i love the fact that everybody is into it..cool...but you can not make me see what i do not want to open my eyes to. i do what i can.but i do not bash anybody in the process.....if i were to be a hipocrit i would want to coment on the fact that half of you here probably never have or never will serve your country...but i gaurantee you will serve yourself...but i wont impose my patriatism on anyone...so dont impose your past,future on me.....my kendo is what it is mine......thank you for reading my concept on indifference...live and let live.......soldier

[indigo0086]

taxes serve the country greatly.

[not-I]

thank you for reading my concept on indifference...live and let live.......soldier
I know what you mean, i like to call it equanimity. If i remember correctly, the Japanese call it heijoshin.

About the forum issue, i wouldn't sweat it too much. You're the "new guy on the block" and i think it's normal that people will be a little skeptical of you at first. Plus you have a strong personality on the net -i'm sure in real life too- so that can also put others off. Language can be a big factor too. All of us are guilty to various degrees of posting stuff in a huff that we later regret. Here, that's supposed to be limited to the flames section, but it will naturally spill over into the other sections. I'm now getting very wary of even posting there at all. An internet forum is a community too (although it can be a strange one) with its own customs and rules and it changes temperature too. Sometimes it's hot, sometimes it's cool as a cucumber, just like life.

As for me, i'm glad you're around and i respect your opinions, even if i may not always agree with them. Communication is the only way to get over misunderstandings. Thanks for your thread.

[Munnin]

You were posting in bold for a while and that has its effect on people. You tend not to break up your posts into paragraphs which make them more difficult to read, you must remember that we have plenty of non-native speakers here. Add to that some strong opinions and you get some push back.



That said I don’t think most of your post have elicited flames or even much push back. You have contributed with the idea of using Murphy’s oil soap and warned me off of some cheap kendo products. Overall I value your presence, even if I don’t agree with you about self limiting my first amendment rights.



P.S.: you never told me your MOS, I was a 76Y (supply) while I was in.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Soldier, the confrontational tone you take added to your relatively short experience with kendo is what puts some people off.

[JSchmidt]

What's really amazing is that in your 'attempt' to clear the air, you promptly proceed to insult people.
Bravo.

Jakob

[moetl]

jschmidt, where did you see an insult in his post? i didn't feel offended :D

[JSchmidt]

my first amendment rights.
There's no such thing as the first amendment here. This is a private BBS, run by 2 Kiwi's who lives in Japan and not a public physical location in the US.

Jakob

[Munnin]

There's no such thing as the first amendment here. This is a private BBS, run by 2 Kiwi's who lives in Japan and not a public physical location in the US.

Jakob

My comment to him was saying valued his presence even though I did not agree with some of his opinions. If disagreeing with his opinions is an insult to him then public discourse has fallen even further than I suspected.

As far as freedom of speech on the board I agree with what you are saying but my comment was not about on board conduct but rather this comment:

"point is if you anit in the fight(serving your country) then do not comment on it." - SOLDIER

I think you would agree that its perfectly reasonable for me to disagree with this.

[Kirin]

so to make a short story long...i do kendo for me...me ...and no one but me...i love the fact that everybody is into it..cool...but you can not make me see what i do not want to open my eyes to.

Sad to hear that......
Without partner, you can not practice kendo. Without sensei, you can not practice kendo....
One of the most important aspect of kendo is "Respect and Appreciation to Others" Hope you can understand this someday soon.
I go to practice becasue my sensei are there every time!
I go to practice because my senpai are there,
and most of all, I go to practice because my kohai are there!

Regarding your past posts, though I may not agree most, you are expressing your opinion.....thats fine by me.
At this forum, 85% of posters are shodan or below, but there are many true sensei (especially 6-dan up) not 8kyu or 3 kyu senseis :rolleyes:
You are new to this forum so you may not know those sensei or active posters, but please respect others :)

[Kaoru]

There's no such thing as the first amendment here. This is a private BBS, run by 2 Kiwi's who lives in Japan and not a public physical location in the US.

Jakob
Hi minna-san,

What is a "Kiwi" please? I thought a Kiwi was a fruit? :confused:

Can somebody please tell me? :)

Please excuse the slight thread drift.

Kaoru

[Shazzanzzz]

I'm making the post in the nicest way possible, not supposed to be a personal attack. Just so you know...

I don't think anyone mind what you post, it's how you post. You make it sound like your way is the only right way to do things, and what everyone else say cannot be right because that is not what you have done. If you used a more suggestive tone instead of the command tone, i don't think anyone would have any problems with your posts. I don't think the me me me talk helps your case either.

I think it's cool that you are proud being a soldier and serve your country. But, i think you're getting a little too proud that you can pass to be a snob. So what if most of us don't serve our country as a SOLDIER? We serve our countries by simply working and paying taxes, maybe volunteer and contribute to society in other ways. Being a soldier is not the only way to show your patriotism and serve your country.

[D'Artagnan]

Look matey,

My one and only problem with you was the telling a nanadan you know better. Compared to him, you (and 90% of this forum) know NOTHING about kendo.

Aside from this i actually thought you made some interesting posts.

Wheter we are patriotic or not, the advice of a sensei (especially 5th dan up) should not be argued with by a 3rd kyu. Yes grade is important in this situation. You say you do kendo for you, but it is only yourself you are impededing with this attitude.

[Andoru]

Hi minna-san,

What is a "Kiwi" please? I thought a Kiwi was a fruit? :confused:

Can somebody please tell me? :)

Please excuse the slight thread drift.

Kaoru
Kiwis are also known as "New Zealanders".

Application example: "Mate there are heaps of kiwis in Bondi (http://www.voyeurmagic.com.au/)!"

[JSchmidt]

Munnin, my apologies. I've just seen that '1st Amendment/Free Speech' thing so many times when referring to a BBS, that I placed my usual reply to it, without knowing the context.
:)

Jakob

[Eiliries]

hopefully we can all be friends...if i were to be a hipocrit i would want to coment on the fact that half of you here probably never have or never will serve your country...but i gaurantee you will serve yourself
So, the only way to serve ones country is to invade a third world-country and kill pitch-fork wielding civilians? How sad....
By the way, how are you hoping to make friends by implying that your way is the only way to serve your country?

[Munnin]

Munnin, my apologies. I've just seen that '1st Amendment/Free Speech' thing so many times when referring to a BBS, that I placed my usual reply to it, without knowing the context.
:)

Jakob
My fault for not being clearer, but it's all good.

[abunaidesu]

So, the only way to serve ones country is to invade a third world-country and kill pitch-fork wielding civilians? How sad....
By the way, how are you hoping to make friends by implying that your way is the only way to serve your country?
I believe that as one of the last true super power countries with the resources to "invade third world countries", we should. Also,these civilians don't arm themselves with pitchforks, those days are long gone (like Marlon Brando), now they have these things that are a little more powerful, they're called rpg's and automatic machine guns. I don't know any "civilians" with rpg's. I think it is a civic duty to serve your country (and I'm a democrat). If we are able to intervene in a situation where we can stop leaders of countries from murdering innocent civilians (real ones, not ones with freakin anti-aircraft missles), or commiting genocide, THEN HELL YEAH we should do something. If you do serve you should know your making a difference, and those who aren't...what are you doing to make a difference? Giving and orphaned child in Sudan $0.10 a day? Spitting on YOUR troops that are trying to make this world safer for your children? Know that these soldiers didn't sign up to get killed, but are willing to sacrifice their lifes for those who talk out their asses. Anyone who spits on our soldiers should be ashamed, whether you like it or not, they are there. They are dying daily to assure your children don't have to worry about planes crashing into their palces of work.

[kendokamax]

Look matey,

My one and only problem with you was the telling a nanadan you know better. Compared to him, you (and 90% of this forum) know NOTHING about kendo.

Aside from this i actually thought you made some interesting posts.

Wheter we are patriotic or not, the advice of a sensei (especially 5th dan up) should not be argued with by a 3rd kyu. Yes grade is important in this situation. You say you do kendo for you, but it is only yourself you are impededing with this attitude.

so what the hell is this forum is for? if we cant argue with everyone on a equal base? Well ,I agree that the nanadan has better chances to be right about kendo related subject, but that's to that person to show he or she is right with some good points by telling us of his/her experiences. If not all of us might lose the opportunity to learn something here, right?

[kenshin13]

very right kendokamax :)

[Neil Gendzwill]

I agree that each post should stand on it's own merits but sometimes it's not always possible to prove something in text. We deal with physical stuff, right? So when a sensei tells you to do something a particular way, you try it that way and see how it goes. Sometimes he's able to give you a sound argument, sometimes you don't have the background to understand why something is or isn't right. At all times, you should respect the opinion of your sensei even if you privately disagree. Take his advice, try it, incorporate it into your kendo if you understand it and it works for you. But stand there on the floor arguing with him about it? Not Done. What makes you think they'll have any more patience for it on a forum such as this? Why do you think most sensei don't bother coming places like here?

[kendokamax]

Of course, if in keiko some sensei would explain me something ,even if I disagree I wouldnt show it openly. I would just nod and try to do as they ask, since I might have a chance to graps something new.

But on the forum, there is no hierachie(spell?) or anything like this. Actually, if by chance a hachidan sensei would give his opinion on something without telling about his status on the forum, he might be put down by some dude who made 500 posts. Since the 500 posts guy feels he is confortable here, he would be more likely to give sh*t to a newcomer whatever the rank and experience in kendo. Its a bit on the extreme as an example, but I think it applies sometimes.

Anyway, I think everyone should always be open minded and keep their cool. I think some newcomers on the forum might try to be annoying and provocative at first, so they can be listened later on when they really do want to give their honest opinion on something, and then show that they arent really idiots. hmm..


..sorry that my spelling and grammar is so terrible.. :robot:

[Old Warrior]

"But stand there on the floor arguing with him about it? Not Done. What makes you think they'll have any more patience for it on a forum such as this? Why do you think most sensei don't bother coming places like here."

As I have espoused before, one of the greatest benefits to be learned from Kendo, especially for children, is manners and respect. While humbleness, is a more difficult virtue to comprehend, it too can be gleaned from a thoughtful study of the art. One of the reasons I have never had an interest in participating in any organizations (professional, political or social) is the rampant belief that one's opinion (because its yours) must be superior to others. When a conversation breaks down to a shouting match (be it oral or in a post), somehow I lose interest.

[not-I]

When a conversation breaks down to a shouting match (be it oral or in a post), somehow I lose interest.Everyone loses interest, except for the participants. But in a way, isn't that also a form of "feeling more superior?" With your age and life-experience, i venture to say you'd be a more likely candidate to help moderate it, if just with a gesture, and if it's not a totally lost cause.

But yeah, funny thing about the internet. You being older than me, i would be unlikely to "suggest" anything to you in a face-to-face conversation or interrupt something you addressed to Neil, except in a very respectful or indirect way. But here, as long as it's not specifically about the practice of kendo, where credentials come into play, all texts stand on a more-or-less equal footing and are open to response.

[SOLDIER]

i do not post on here to get an uproar..but i feel alot of you are misreading my posts

as far as the me me me thing..ofcourse you can not practice kendo alone ,,,again i was read wrong.....what i mean is this...when i come to the dojo/dojang iam there for the betterment of myself..me as a person. without question i give my respect and courtesy to me fellow dojo mates . but my reasons for kendo are my own and thats what i mean..

my grandmaster miyahara sensei (7-dan)said " i put my pants on the same way you do".. he tells us to approach him with out hesitation....he admits some higher ranking kendoka are frugal with the younger less experienced....

about being too proud to be a soldier....there can never be enough pride when someone is devoting life to something....but i value your opinion...

about my posts being long...ok i will try to shorten them.

about me posting in a command tone...? sorry i did not know letters had tones....maybe its the way you are reading, iam just talking normal.....lol //sorry

[DCPan]

But here, as long as it's not specifically about the practice of kendo, where credentials come into play, all texts stand on a more-or-less equal footing and are open to response.

I agree for the most part.

Personally, however, my take on the internet forum like this is that if you have to fall back on your credentials for credibility, the conversation has already ended.

IMHO, simple truths should be able to stand on its own.

I also really don't care for conversations that degenerate to "well, my sensei said, and he's x-dan."

Regardless of what your motivation is for saying so, it has also effectively ended the conversation because in order for you to offer a contrary opinion, you now have to contradict someone else's sensei and etc.

I visit internet forums to discuss and learn. People who are here only to debate the validity of their views usually don't offer me venues of mutual growth because they don't offer their views in such a way that is rationally convincing. I don't like debating because it polarizes the conversation in such a way as to usually prevent mutual understanding.

Then, it goes down the road of mine is bigger than yours and who has the longer shinai, and it's all downhill from there.

:rolleyes:

[enkorat]

I've noticed that on many internet related forums (not just this one), it is very easy to get upset at people for an imagined slight or a preceived insult. This is probably because in writing on the internet, we all tend to write fast without much thought to shades of meaning, tone or deeper meaning.


For example, how many of us actually go back and edit our work before we post the "Submit" button? I don't. Yet when I write a paper for publication in a journal, the thing goes through at least 10 edits between more than two people.

I am guilty of getting upset myself a few times while moderating live discussions on the internet, and getting angry. I have fortunately come to the very swift realization that getting angry at someone over the internet isn't very useful. Even if it is resolved the reality is that I'm still in front of a computer typing away burning up energy and time that could be usefully expended in a number of other things that I need to do.

There will always be people who for whatever reason feel the need to vent from behind the anonymity of the internet. Its very easy to be loud and brave when all that you are is a name on a computer screen and the person you're mocking is 2 continents away.

<shrug>

But it is not my life that's being wasted away, and if someone else wants to invest their energy and time into something that I find no value in, I'm not going to stop them. Me, I should go put away my laundry. It doesn't fold itself unfortunately.

[not-I]

Personally, however, my take on the internet forum like this is that if you have to fall back on your credentials for credibility, the conversation has already ended.
I see your point. Allow me to rephrase:

But here on the internet, all texts stand on a more-or-less equal footing and are open to response.

Ideally, in the realm of pure reason, all posts stand or fall on their own merits.

"More or less" means that we will tend to view new posts based on what the poster has posted before and what we "know" about them from their profile, statements, etc. The only way to find out is to actually read what they have to say.

An internet forum is - among other things - a community, where knowing who's who and being part of a social environment is very helpful and condusive to discussion.

This doesn't mean getting attached to labels like "troll" or "expert," but on the contrary, actually getting to know other people who share our interest in kendo, and replying with that in mind.

I think we are basically in agreement here.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I agree, not-I. But the logical fall-out of your statement is that who you are does matter, and arguing from credentials is a least partially valid. Not necessarily in the sense of "I am X-dan, therefore listen to my wisdom" but rather in being more willing to accept some statements at face value. For example, if Marsten-sensei says something here, I'm listening. He doesn't have to back it up with a lot of argument, it's already backed up with his decades of kendo experience and his previous helpful advice on this board.

[not-I]

I agree, not-I. But the logical fall-out of your statement is that who you are does matter, and arguing from credentials is a least partially valid.Yes, i agree. That is the logical consequence of my statement. By reading along and getting a feeling for who's who, the community works and no one has to "fall back" on credentials, they are simply there.

[Eiliries]

I believe that as one of the last true super power countries with the resources to "invade third world countries", we should. Also,these civilians don't arm themselves with pitchforks, those days are long gone (like Marlon Brando), now they have these things that are a little more powerful, they're called rpg's and automatic machine guns. I don't know any "civilians" with rpg's. I think it is a civic duty to serve your country (and I'm a democrat). If we are able to intervene in a situation where we can stop leaders of countries from murdering innocent civilians (real ones, not ones with freakin anti-aircraft missles), or commiting genocide, THEN HELL YEAH we should do something. If you do serve you should know your making a difference, and those who aren't...what are you doing to make a difference? Giving and orphaned child in Sudan $0.10 a day? Spitting on YOUR troops that are trying to make this world safer for your children? Know that these soldiers didn't sign up to get killed, but are willing to sacrifice their lifes for those who talk out their asses. Anyone who spits on our soldiers should be ashamed, whether you like it or not, they are there. They are dying daily to assure your children don't have to worry about planes crashing into their palces of work.

I do not spit on soldiers, I just think it is wrong to invade and tear apart a far less advanced country because our jackass president thinks they could maybe, possibly, rhetorically have some type of weapons of mass-destruction. And as a matter of fact I, have plenty of rpg's*! I would like to see you try to take away my right to own rpg's*!

*rpg's=role playing games