Do women have a place in Kendo???

[mingshi]

Hehehe... We are way smarter than that.
Please look at the question CAREFULLY and cast your vote.

[Tato]

:p

[KhawMengLee]

:p

[sjp]

Why can't I vote twice ? :)

[Kent Enfield]

I didn't know which one to choose, because I couldn't tell if the second option is enthusiastic or creepy.

[Confound]

If women don't have a place in kendou, then I'm rather disappointed. You see, some of my favourite sempai are women.

c

[mingshi]

Sorry moderators. I made a bad joke. Forgive me.

(huh? Leave personal attacks for the dojo??)

[Alex]

personal attacks in the dojo. If you don't attack someone in the dojo what do you do??? It's just a play on words.

[KENSHIN]

Originally posted by mingshi
Hehehe... We are way smarter than that.
Please look at the question CAREFULLY and cast your vote.

err....where is the NO!!! button? what kind of undemocratic voting is this...:D :D :D

[Confound]

Kenshin, we all know that irrational women favour autocratic societies. What kind of democracy do you think Margaret Thatcher was running? Really now!

c

[Tato]

:p :p

[rottunpunk]

women are way scarier than men-of copurse we have a place
:p

[munenmuso]

Hell hath no fury of a woman scorned!!!!!

For heaven's sake.Yes,no need to ask that.


___________________

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by munenmuso
For heaven's sake.Yes,no need to ask that.

Is that a Yes or a No ??

Mines a Yes, someone has to make the o-cha.

Only joking - some of the best kendoka in my part of the world are female.


R

[ben]

Now there's a thought Richard... kendo OLs!

No really, I'm serious.

b

[Kendoka]

.. wots an OL ?

[Confound]

OL = Office Lady

The career of the OL is just one of handful stellar options available to japanese women. others include: housewife, convenience store clerk, school teacher and post office desk worker! A small amount of very lucky women might even become school accountants (in reality, they're little more than glorified receptionists, someone else does the accounting).

As for kendou office ladies... i highly doubt it. the female kendouka I know do not work as office ladies, and never would.

c

[mingshi]

Maybe a bit off topic, but I was wondering....

So what kind of women actually practice Kendo in Japan?
Okay apart from the usual police and education related people... who's left?

Since Confound said OLs would not do Kendo....?

ar... what about that housewives' championship?

[laurien]

Good question, Mingshi. Been wondering that myself....

About kendo OL's - great idea! As long as we can have kendo OB's. Let's not triffle with office boys, either. I'll take the beefcake, thank you.

:vampire: laurien

[toreisu]

Originally posted by Kendoka


...someone has to make the o-cha...




...and someone has to clean the dojo floor...and someone has to pour the sake for sensei...

[Hongsermeier]

I have to say yes or my wife(Ni-dan) will kick my(Ni-Kyu) butt. Many women practice Kendo through college in Japan. However, I've never seen one older than that practicing. At least not where my wife is from.

[toreisu]

Originally posted by Confound
OL = Office Lady

The career of the OL is just one of handful stellar options available to japanese women. others include: housewife, convenience store clerk, school teacher and post office desk worker! A small amount of very lucky women might even become school accountants (in reality, they're little more than glorified receptionists, someone else does the accounting).

As for kendou office ladies... i highly doubt it. the female kendouka I know do not work as office ladies, and never would.

c

Ouch! While I agree the glass ceiling in Japan is lower than it is in other countries, I don't agree that female school accountants are just glorified receptionists...housewives are the ones who handle all the accounting in most Japanese households, so there's no reason why women couldn't handle the job at work as well. There's nothing wrong with being a receptionist either.

Your comment that no female kendoka you know would ever work as an office lady sounds as though you feel that kind of work is "beneath" the sort of person who would do kendo. To answer the question of what kind of Japanese woman would do kendo, the answer is - ANY kind of woman. Why NOT a convenience store worker, office lady, housewife, teacher? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to practice kendo. The jobs you mentioned may seem like humble work for a woman to you, but it doesn't mean the women doing that work aren't up to practicing kendo. Incidentally what kind of work do your fellow female kendoka do? I'm assuming their jobs are all well above the status of the "handful of stellar options available to Japanese women" that you mentioned... Perhaps they're all working OUTSIDE of Japan?...

While praticing kendo in Japan, I noticed many women who chose to pursue kendo came from families who had been practicing kendo for many generations - old family tradition passed down - or were mothers of kids who had taken up kendo - new family tradition passed upwards.

[munenmuso]

Well said Toreisu. I could have never said better.

[kendokata]

Hi all,
I thought this was going to be an actual discussion on what women excel at, but it's really more of a none content thread. There was at least a few interesting comments.
I do have to agreee with Hongsermeier. Although, I have only been in Japan a short time, I have noticed something. I have only met women kendoka who either at present time play and are in H.S./ college/uni or who no longer play, but played in H.S./college/uni. It seems to be very rare to see women in the dojo other then students, after the finish they all seem to drop off and I don't seem to understand why either. But, it"s definitly noticible.
The good thing is that the one's that generally continue playing are damn good and it is a pleasure to play and learn from them. Wonder why this happens and why you don't seem to see it as much with women who play Naginata (they continue playing after uni - not just the teachers).

Just a thought
Michael Castellani

[munenmuso]

I read that there is also the All Japan Housewife Kendo Championship(?), so me thinks that women in Japan continue to do kendo beyond university life and they still do it while washing the dishes and doing household chores so that maybe answers your question its just a matter of finding them. It isnt just a cultural thing, isn't it? Like any other endeavor, if you really want it you have to get it and continue doing it even at old age.

[nodachi]

A couple of the women in my club joined because they figured that, well, I take my kids here every practice, why not join in and have some fun too. It'll be fun to see their kids reactions to how they do in shiai.

[hamish]

You'll meet a high percentage of guys who gave up kendo after high school/uni as well.

Hamish

[Confound]

Mingshi,

The female kendouka I know work in shimin centers (like a community centre, a place with many arts and practical living classes), or in companies that sell kendou equipment. They are not office ladies, they don't run around in packs, wearing the same clothes, and go to Thailand to have sex with barely legal Thai boys during Golden Week.

Putting aside the worst stereotypes of Office Ladies, I must ask how many Office Ladies you have personally known and spoken with in your life, Mingshi? I have met and spoken with a respectable number. There is variety, but I found most of them tiresome, incredibly tiresome. The work of an Office Lady is degrading at best, serving tea with a pathetically 'Hello Kitty' bounce, scraping and bowing before everyone, even the most junior accountant, routine sexual harassment, it's all part of the Office Ladies' lot.

If one manages to secure an OL job with a good company, as in one that treats its workers fairly, the job itself isn't half bad, but I don't know the odds on getting a good company versus one where your boss fondles your bottom every morning and people stare at your cleavage.

The mentality that created the 'Office Lady' is one that isn't quite pleasant to contemplate. The OL is an ornament, a pretty object for the purpose of tea serving, handing out omiyage, and other menial, polite tasks that are supposedly 'below the attention' of regular, male employees.

There are some women who take up kendou when their young children start studying, I applaud them heartily. It's a late start, but it's a brave move, very brave. We have two women like that in our club, and I'm proud of them.

As for the schol accountant being a glorified receptionist, she does do the accounting, but no one gives her any respect. she is treated like a receptionist, and has many of the duties of one as well.

c

[reicheru]

I dunno. In more than half of the schools I go to, the "glorified receptionist" is male, and most of them (male and female) seem to have a fair number of responsibilities and adequate respect. In one of my junior highs, the "receptionist" speaks better English than any of the English teachers -- he's also a ski instructor and expert guitar player.

As for office ladies, it's true that it tends to be a fairly degrading position. But most of the women I've met who work as OLs don't see it as a long term position. Some only intend to stay in those companies until they get married or until they turn 30 (believe it or not, some companies maintain the right to terminate your job if you get too old for the position -- my town hall is one of those), but some just see it as a temporary position until they can find better jobs. While it's true that I don't know any OLs who practice kendo, it wouldn't really surprise me to find some who did -- I know OLs who do lots of other interesting things (as well as some who fit Confound's stereotype).

There are no adult women in my current kendo club. But then, there are no adult men either, other than the 3 sensei and a few others who occasionally drop in. Of the kids (elementary, junior high, and a few high school), it's split about 50-50. There are actually a few more girls with dan rankings than boys at the moment. I wish some of the moms would join -- perhaps I'll suggest it to some of them!

And, as Hamish said, I've met just as many men who say they played kendo in high school/university as women...

Rachel