Kumdo to Kendo

[Kenshin Axel]

Hey everybody,

I have a rather important question.
I'm gonna start Kumdo, because there is no kendo club close enough to me.
If I start kumdo now, when I am able to do kendo, will my rank be the same?
And even if I do keep my rank, will I be as good in Kendo as I was in Kumdo?


Axel,

[Kyros Nighle]

i sincerely dont know about kumdo, so ill better keep my mouth shut till someone who does knows enlightens this thread..............


(waits till someone who DOES know post......) :D

[Andoru]

kenshin_axel: doesn't matter whether you do kumdo or kendo as long as you partake in grading sanctioned by the IKF through its respective regional kendo association. From the list of IKF affiliates (http://www.kendo.or.jp/english-page/english-page2/IKF-affiliates/asia.html), the only IKF-recognised kendo body in Australia is the Australian Kendo Renmei (http://www.kendoaustralia.asn.au/).

Be sure to ask your sensei if this is a concern for you.

[Kaoru]

Hi!

hehehe, Sorry I didn't reply to your other thread yet.

The Burwood dojang(Korean for Dojo.) is listed on the page I posted for you, and is a member of the NSW Kendo Federation. This is very good.

And, I quote Aden-san's post:


Hi there

As former Secretary of the NSW Kendo Association I can assure everyone that the Burwood Kumdo dojang training is excellent. I trained there occasionally in the late 1990s and was always very impressed by Master Song and his seniors.

No it is not Japanese, so the ettiquete is different as is the kiai, but technically what is taught there was very nearly identical to Japanese Kendo.

Aden
University of Wollongong Kendo Club
Kendo-Iaido-Jodo
http://www.uow.edu.au/~aden/kendo.html
You can trust what he says.

Yes, you will be as good, since Kumdo and Kendo are basically the same exact thing, with some minor differences. Kumdoka and Kendoka compete against each other in the major tournaments, and they ARE as good as the Kendoka.

AND: you are only as good as the amount you practice and work hard, If you never bother to practice you will never be as good as either Kendo or Kumdoka. If you practice hard and are dedicated, you WILL be as good hopefully one day as your fellow Kendo/Kumdoka.

The rank will transfer if it is a NSW dojo as far as I know. But, rank is not all that important. It is how hard you work, that is. You won't get ranking every three months. You grade only when your sensei says, and sometimes, it isn't for a year. Some dojo give Kyu(Keup I think, in Korean.) grades, but even then, they aren't earned on a schedule. Do not focus on rank. Focus on having fun and working on your footwork and technique. There is no hurry. I have no grade, and I have done Kendo for almost a year now. I don't mind. I know that when my sensei says, I will grade. My dojo does not do Kyu grading, but we go for Ikkyu then Shodan. It takes a year or more at least, to get Ikkyu.(Last grade before Shodan-1st degree)

Now, if it was a non-federation dojo(I mean one not listed on the NSW Kendo Federation page) and not recognised, the rank earned would not count and you'd have to grade all over, if you switched to a recognised dojo. But, since this is not your case, you are fine.

I just would go and enjoy it. :) You will be fine. You'll just have to get used to hearing Korean all the time. If this dojang was a bad one with a TKD sensei trying to teach and it was in a McDojo setting, then I'd tell you forget it. There are places like that. But, the Burwood dojo is not like that.
You can always do Kendo one day, if you just happen to decide you like Japanese better as the language used in class, and the Japanese way of doing things. Just please give the Burwood dojo a chance. :)

Please let us know what happens, ok? :)

Kaoru

[Kenshin Axel]

Guess what!
I'm not doing Kumdo, well, not for now.
Instead I am continuing Ju Jitsu, and starting Kobudo, and maybe a bit of Karate.
Maybe in a few years when my sister gets her license, she'll take me to Kumdo.
But I'm happy, I go to a good dojo, too bad I am the youngest and everybody is almost twice my size, The only person my height is sensei.

[webjunkie401]

"everybody is almost twice my size"

Well, that should get you used to using your opponents size and weight against them.

[DaQo'tah]

here is my problem,,,,

I just learned about this Kumdo /Kendo difference the other day.

But the trouble is that I will be starting my first Kendo lessons soon, but then I have been talking to a BlackBelt in my home town who is getting ready to start a Kumdo class next summer.

By switching to Kumdo next year I save myself a 4 hour drive 2 times a week....so you betcha Im interested in Kumdo. But the problem is how do I check later this year to make sure that Both my kendo and Kumdo teachers are connected to the right org. so that down the line Im not going to end up on the wrong end of the stick?

[Andoru]

Why don't you ask that "BlackBelt" with which organisation he/she is affiliated with?

[Old Warrior]

This whole discussion is no different than "how do I find a good doctor/lawyer?". The only person who is in a position to gauge the skill of the practitioner is one who is an expert himself. In general I try to pick a doctor by having a friend who is a doctor check them out. If you respect the skill of the "Black Belt" you could wait to see his/her opinion of the teacher/class.

On the other hand, there is enough material on the web for you to get a good understanding of kendo principles and then see how classes are run and if you think you would fit in. I started Kumdo almost 2 years ago and knew absolutely nothing. But I had trained in some aspect of the martial arts for 30 years. It was easy to see the skill of the instructor, the regimine of the class and the seriousness of the atmosphere. Also, the credentials of the 7th dan instructor seemed unbelievably substantial. I have since met a number of posters on this board who study kendo, who have visited our dojang, just to train with our Master. My choice has proven very satisfying and I have enjoyed the education immensely.

Life is a journey and I wouldn't squander many hours a week if there was a chance that the local kumdo school might give you a chance to learn kendo (which our Master says is the same as kendo).

[The Boss]

There are very distinct diffrence between kendo and kumdo

Kendo = strong aspects of one's mental & spiritual development (manner/respect)
dojo mostly non-profit, organized by volunteer senseis

Kumdo = more emphasis on phisical development = sports (trying to understand/copy mental/spiritual part of kendo but have not succeed yet)
profit/commercial oriented, trying to make profit out of students bogu purchases and rank testing.


And I alway wonder why they call 'master'?
Calling 7 DAN 'master, 8 DAN is 'Super Duper Grand Master'?
and what rank they become 'master'?

I know there is a word for sensei in korean, and many uses in kumdo.
something like 'senjun'? (sorry) Why not use sensei (in korean) instead of 'Master'?

[Old Warrior]

"There are very distinct diffrence between kendo and kumdo"

The techniques are the same as well as the principles of proper form and action. The translation of "sabumnim" into English comes out as "master" as the word teacher doesn't quite do it. All of the same concepts of mental and spiritual development apply and are part of out school's website.

The fact that the art is taught for profit doesn't mean that it is different. What it does mean is that opportunity for access is increased and the teachers work at it everyday, rather than part time, squeezed in between other endeavors.

I sense that the perceived differences are more of ethnocentric preference than reality. And, I can state with absolute certainty that, where I study, the art is the message, not the ethnicity of the messenger.

[DaQo'tah]

As a North Dakota Viking,,,,Im not mixed up in ethnic struggles to make Kendo or Kumdo the "Top dog"

History has shown that both kendo and Kumdo have been doing just fine. Both will likely be around for a long long time.

However there is one new item that does upset the status quo....that being the Olympics...

If the sport of Kumdo is made the only offical Olympic sport , then there is going to be a lot of ethnic struggling back and forth to push one sport over the other...

If Kumdo becomes the worlds only offically recognized sport, then this will definitely change a lot of things.

I cant predict the future, but from other sports I have seen how the Olympic people will likely change things around a bit, and that if Kumdo is chosen, and a few changes are made, then I would expect such changes to spread fast throughout all Kumdo.
I would also expect some Kendo to change to reflect the Olympic sport.

If Kendo is dubbed the offical sport by the Olympics,,,then I expect Kumdo to change to adjust to the Olympic mandates


This is just my ideas,,I cant support any of this,,,just a few ideas I have been kicking around....

Your views?

[The Boss]

Thx "sabumnim" is the word i was thinking

So 5 DAN up is "sabumnim" = "THE MASTER'?

All of the same concepts of mental and spiritual development apply and are part of out school's website.Must be. As I stated before, 'trying to understand/copy mental/spiritual part of kendo but have not succeed yet'

You explained many things but everything i siad were clear distinction, especially profit/commercial part. making money off of rank test, profit off of member's bogu/equipment, even i saw one dojo sold soft drinks out of MASTER's smelly ice-chest for $1.00. LOL

I am sure not all kumdo schools are like so, but many are. :confused2

[DaQo'tah]

I dont find any problems with Kendo teachers earning a buck ....the lights and heat are not given for free you know...

The pop and ice didnt fall from heaven, someone had to drag the thing to the lesson.

people earning a buck are what America stands for,,,I believe that a student will pay closer attention to the teacher if he has invested a bit of money into the lesson,,,the student will also look to make sure that his teacher is worth the money,,,this makes for better teachers in the long run...

The teacher will also know that the student has placed his money into the mix, and that the student has clearly shown the interest....

I dont see a down side...

[Wout]

yeah but what about expectations, don't students who have lots invested in kendo expect result as in 'I paid you so you must make a swordsman out of me' or 'this and that grade, technique' etc.

whereas a teacher can promise you nothing in that sort of way, he can only promise he will teach you if you want to listen.

Same thing happens in some private-high schools in belgium (note that 99 % of students in belgium are in schools well-funded by the state), some of the parents pay much money to the school so they expect them to recieve a graduation in this or that class. Regardless of the kids real abilities some schools are willing to meet the parents demands but my question is, is this better?

[not-I]

Props, Wout.

Personally, i really respect the traditional kendo principle that the sensei teaches "for free." In a way, he/she is repaying a debt to his/her own teachers.

It may not be the "American Way," but so what?

Dishing out the dojo fees can be useful financial motivation for beginners, but if they are exceptionally high, the student will be more likely to "expect" something.

As Oscar Wilde said about cynics, they "know the price of everything, and the value of nothing."

[D'Artagnan]

As a North Dakota Viking,,,,




A WHAT??????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


people earning a buck are what America stands for

So, the Japanese call it 'Kendo', The Koreans call it 'Kumdo', what do these American's call it?? seen as they are so entitled to operate differently.

[sjp]

here is my problem,,,,

so that down the line Im not going to end up on the wrong end of the stick?

You are definetley going to end up on the wrong end of the stick

[sminki]

here is my problem,,,,
But the problem is how do I check later this year to make sure that Both my kendo and Kumdo teachers are connected to the right org. so that down the line Im not going to end up on the wrong end of the stick?

Sounds like what you should do is to wait until the school is set up and then check if the teacher and the school is affiliated with International Kendo Federation by way of the local kendo federation. If there is no affiliation, your rank, etc. will not be recognized as "kendo" or "kumdo" in the same context of this forum and the IKF.

Definitely getting tired of this kendo vs. kumdo talk which is plagued with generalization and misinformation... It's all the same to me.

[DaQo'tah]

A WHAT?



The Vikings are the name of our local high school team

[DaQo'tah]

what do these American's call it?.

Us?...we call int $40 a month.

[meow]

But the problem is how do I check later this year to make sure that Both my kendo and Kumdo teachers are connected to the right org. so that down the line Im not going to end up on the wrong end of the stick?

I think the most important part is, that the chemistry in the dojo you are joining is right. Means: You have fun practicing and you have a relationship based on confidence.

You will not benefit from a dojo when you don´t get along with the people there or you have problems with the sensei/teacher.

The dojo where I am practicing is only a rather small group of kendoka and the teachers are not so high ranked like sensei in other dojos. But it was the first kendo dojo I visited and I liked the athmosphere there right from the spot. The more fun you have, the more motivated you are.

[not-I]

You will not benefit from a dojo when you don´t get along with the people there or you have problems with the sensei/teacher.
But it has to be said, if you are a moron with a closed mind, you gives a shit about you? The dojo, no matter where, or who is running it, will never benefit. If you can't suspend your opinions and prejudices in direct contact with the sensei, then you are utterly useless and will never learn kendo. Case closed.

[DaQo'tah]

Meow...

Excellent advice!

I only hope that I will be able to move from Kendo to Kumdo without incurring the wrath of "separatists"...

I would rather learn Kendo,,,I would rather learn things that are of a clearly Japanese connection,,,However due to the travel distance involved, I will most likely have to switch from one to the other.

Does this happen alot?

[kendokamax]

yo man cant you just go to a dojo try kendo, then come back on the forum?

[litige]

If the sport of Kumdo is made the only offical Olympic sport , then there is going to be a lot of ethnic struggling back and forth to push one sport over the other...

If Kumdo becomes the worlds only offically recognized sport, then this will definitely change a lot of things.



this is utterly impossible. The Kumdo isn't in enough nation to be part of the olympic program. And the IKF don't wan't it, even if it cans.

[Nanbanjin]

this is utterly impossible. The Kumdo isn't in enough nation to be part of the olympic program. And the IKF don't wan't it, even if it cans.
I spoke with some right wing Japanese bloke a while back who went on about the power that Korea has in the IOC, and the power that that gives Korea to push the Kumdo cause. I noticed that the Korean vice president of the IOC was recently sentenced to jail for corruption. I guess that the IKF is breathing a little easier now, if there ever really was a threat.

[DaQo'tah]

litige
....been paying attention to the news?...I hear Kumdo is . well...going for the gold , as it were.

Kumdo is useing a lot of arm twisting to get the Olimpic committe to only recognise Kumdo...

Now, personally, I perfer the idea that Kendo is placed into that position,,,but I dont get to vote on such things...

[litige]

litige
....been paying attention to the news?...I hear Kumdo is . well...going for the gold , as it were.

Kumdo is useing a lot of arm twisting to get the Olimpic committe to only recognise Kumdo...

Now, personally, I perfer the idea that Kendo is placed into that position,,,but I dont get to vote on such things...

no kumdo isn't going for gold. They don't have enough power for this.
If what nanbanjin said is true (why wouldn't it be?) then you can forget it, when are the next summer olympics in Korea?

[not-I]

Litige,

Nice to see you again. :wink:

But have a look at this guy's posting history before engaging in further "discussion" with him.

There is a reason why many respected members have him on their ignore list.

[DaQo'tah]

litige..I dont have the slightest idea about the amount of power of Kumdo to get named into the Olympic Games,,,,,,,,I have my guess that this could get "interesting" should the whole nation of Korea start a huge push of support for this,,,But I have no idea how that would end.

I know from a Kumdo website that was drumming up support for the O Games and stuff....I have also I think read this on Cnn.com, but I will have to check....

A Google Search soulds like a good idea to help me learn a few more facts...

[Hai_hai]

There's a big fat article on www.kendo-world.com called "The Black Ships of Kendo" by Dr. Alexander Bennett.

[DaQo'tah]

I have just finished the artical ....

Im still not sure what to think...

Kumdo is clearly pursuing olympic gold....the future seems incertain.

[Hai_hai]

I have just finished the artical ....

Im still not sure what to think...

Kumdo is clearly pursuing olympic gold....the future seems incertain.
It's almost like they are the black ships of kendo.

[litige]

Litige,

Nice to see you again. :wink:

But have a look at this guy's posting history before engaging in further "discussion" with him.

There is a reason why many respected members have him on their ignore list.

Thanks Not-I, glad to be back and see the old ones, he!

Seriously, I don't think he's a troll, but a really fanatical person, either way he sucks. I think he put me on his ignore list, I wanted to, and i did it with class, see the post Foul Language. hehe, anyway, I won't talk to him anymore.

[DarKDawN]

Hey everybody,

I have a rather important question.
I'm gonna start Kumdo, because there is no kendo club close enough to me.
If I start kumdo now, when I am able to do kendo, will my rank be the same?
And even if I do keep my rank, will I be as good in Kendo as I was in Kumdo?


Axel,
A long time ago one of my instructors who back then had been doing kendo for about 7 or 6 years went to a kumdo dojo. He said they were very arragont and weren't kind to him at all. He said they were also sloopy and practiced more on speed then hitting where your suposed to. He also sparred with their "Grand master" and beat him 3-2. After class he said one came up to him and said, "listen if you want to take classes here your going to need to get rid of all your equipment and buy all of ours and never talk to who ever taught you kendo" or osmething stupid like that. So I try to stay AWAY from kumdo, I don't think there all like that..I hope.

[taiwnezboi]

A long time ago one of my instructors who back then had been doing kendo for about 7 or 6 years went to a kumdo dojo. He said they were very arragont and weren't kind to him at all. He said they were also sloopy and practiced more on speed then hitting where your suposed to. He also sparred with their "Grand master" and beat him 3-2. After class he said one came up to him and said, "listen if you want to take classes here your going to need to get rid of all your equipment and buy all of ours and never talk to who ever taught you kendo" or osmething stupid like that. So I try to stay AWAY from kumdo, I don't think there all like that..I hope.

Sounds like he just went to a crappy dojang. Our dojang doesn't care if we get our equipment elsewhere, and no one that's only practiced 6-7 years is going to beat our Sabumnim =P

[DanDan]

There are very distinct diffrence between kendo and kumdo

Kendo = strong aspects of one's mental & spiritual development (manner/respect)
dojo mostly non-profit, organized by volunteer senseis

Kumdo = more emphasis on phisical development = sports (trying to understand/copy mental/spiritual part of kendo but have not succeed yet)
profit/commercial oriented, trying to make profit out of students bogu purchases and rank testing.


And I alway wonder why they call 'master'?
Calling 7 DAN 'master, 8 DAN is 'Super Duper Grand Master'?
and what rank they become 'master'?

I know there is a word for sensei in korean, and many uses in kumdo.
something like 'senjun'? (sorry) Why not use sensei (in korean) instead of 'Master'?it's 'sunsengnim' but 'sabumnim'(master) shows that they teach a martial art...

[DanDan]

also kendo isn't non-profit bcuz u hav to pay a monthly fee and some of that money goes to your sensei...the only real difference is the language

[kenshi_kr]

It's too bad there are alot of bad incidents involving kumdojang's as really, they're clearly not representatives of kumdo's attitutde and mentality.

[DanDan]

those dojangs that dont allow you to buy your equipment wherever you want are a disgrace to kumdo

greedy bastards....

[reg]

this thread is fast becoming a kendo vs kumdo thread, if it hasn't become one already.

[Nanbanjin]

After class he said one came up to him and said, "listen if you want to take classes here your going to need to get rid of all your equipment and buy all of ours and never talk to who ever taught you kendo" or osmething stupid like that.
Maybe they just didn't like him and wanted him to stay away.

[reg]

Maybe they just didn't like him and wanted him to stay away.
eitherway, comments about how kumdo does this, kumdo does that, detracts from the original question, and it's not exactly informative either.

[Nanbanjin]

eitherway, comments about how kumdo does this, kumdo does that, detracts from the original question, and it's not exactly informative either.
Just reminds me of a Shodo sensei I took lessons with last year. He would sometimes get "weirdos" wanting lessons or wanting him to write script for their new tattoos or whatever. His way of getting rid of them was to charge them a massive premium for his services.
(no, the reason I quit wasn't that the price was too high!)

[reg]

(no, the reason I quit wasn't that the price was too high!)
perhaps his penchant for lamb chops was? =D
but i guess that is a good way to get rid of an unwanted crowd.

baaa~

[Nanbanjin]

=D

8====D ~ ~ ~ ~ to lamb chops!

[litige]

8====D ~ ~ ~ ~ to lamb chops!

There are kids here!

[reg]

8====D ~ ~ ~ ~ to lamb chops!
it's even anatomically and structurally correct!

[Kenshin Axel]

Yeah, it's actual size for you reg.

[reg]

Yeah, it's actual size for you reg.
just because that's the size you're used to having does not mean it's the same for everyone else

[reg]

i think he figured out what aho means..

[Nanbanjin]

There are kids here!

Hey, isn't that one of them three posts up?

[reg]

Hey, isn't that one of them three posts up?
what gave it away?? was it the 13 years of age listed? or was it the anime avatar? or was it the mindless prattle that it seemed to produce on threads?

[Kendoka]

However there is one new item that does upset the status quo....that being the Olympics...

If the sport of Kumdo is made the only offical Olympic sport , then there is going to be a lot of ethnic struggling back and forth to push one sport over the other...

If Kumdo becomes the worlds only offically recognized sport, then this will definitely change a lot of things.



There is no kumdo or kendo international organisation that is a member of the IOC and that is a pre-requisite for inclusion in the games.

Also there may not be sufficient numbers of participants in a sufficient number of countries for either to be admitted.

[kenshin13]

8====D ~ ~ ~ ~ to lamb chops!nice Nanbanjin.