Aboringinal Rights??!!

[Kenshin Axel]

Hey everybody,
I've been thinking about this a fair bit.
Here in Australia, I am so sick of people saying it's every non-indigineous persons responsibilities to re-write the wrongs of 200 years ago!
I mean, Aboriginals already get free schooling, and get so many discounts off stuff.
I mean, move on, 200 years ago was along time ago.
I'm not racist at all, not the slightest, I just don't think I have any obligation to "re-write the wrongs of 200 years ago"

[Andoru]

Oh dear......

[ZealUK]

Mass displacement of indigeonous peoples by migrants can cause permanent socio-economic damage. 200 years is very little in comparision to the amount of time that aborigional peoples have inhabited Australia. I would say you should endeavour to learn something about the history of the country you inhabit, so that the same mistakes will not be made over again, even if you have no involvement in the colonialisation undertaken by your ancestors.

Having said that, we English are not the best at owning up to our colonial cock-ups. And we have made many of them.

[taganahan]

giving them free school and stuff isn't enough. the best thing you can do is give your property to them and tell everyone to do the same. at the first place, they really own australia but just lost it because of english's supiority in some aspects. even here in canada, the government gives them free education, some kind of allowance, they also give them land(i think they call it reserves). they still whine about this and i understand why because the land was really theirs and the english just stole it away from them without paying them.

~taganahan

[Hai_hai]

13...
a young person you are...
wisdom you lack...
you walk the path of ignorance...
much you must learn.

[Atama]

. they still whine about this and i understand why because the land was really theirs and the english just stole it away from them without paying them.

~taganahan


As a new immigrant to canada fresh of the boat and all, I've been making a small effort to learn a lil bit about this country, and from what I've read and watched on the discovery channel ( and i could be wrong) the English technically didn't steal the land from the indians they bought it for wiskey guns and $5 per person per year which i belive they still receive. Fair enough they got screwed on the deal but they don't pay taxes and they get deducted tuition that alot more than some people get.

Lisa

[Kenshin Axel]

I have nothing against aboriginal people, but what bugs me is when some aboriginal people are against anybody non-indigineous, yet theyre whole way of life is just like them.

And yes, it is not just aboriginals, there are idiots in every race.

This topic isnt about bagging out aboriginals, just why should we all have to contribute!

I think all people in Australia should be treated equal, no matter what race.

But it is unfair. let me give you an example.

There is a non-indigeneous child. His family is poor, they have trouble paying bills, groceries, and school fees.

There is an indigeneous child, His family is also pretty poor, but he gets free schooling, and his parents recieve payments just for being indigineous, so they don't have as much trouble.

Now, how fair does that sound??

Sure, there has been alot of injustice and racism, over aboriginals over the past.
But just because there was injustice in the past, doesnt mean it should be made up for with more injustice.

[taganahan]

they own the land and they were scammed. they called the title of a land the "white man's paper" or something like that. they weren't taught what that paper was, maybe just a bit, because they were not educated that well. also, the white people traded whiskey, guns and other stuff to them for the land title. the aboriginals didn't know what the paper was really was traded with them because the paper didn't really mean anything to them because it was just paper in their own position.

i'm not being racist when i'm say white people. i'm just referring to the english people who came long ago, as it was what they were referred to also.

~taganahan

[Cheese_Man]

LMAO, thats just like our indian reservations over here in the USA, they have some of the largest casinos because they can dodge alot of taxes that apply to normal casinos (atlest in my state), but i gotta admit I am glad when the fourth of july comes around since I can pick up lots and lots of banned fireworks on the reservation....

[Jamie]

13...
a young person you are...
wisdom you lack...
you walk the path of ignorance...
much you must learn.
"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to suffering."

I aint no Jedi but it makes sense to me...................

[Kenshin Axel]

Okay,
I have come up with a better explanation.

Sure, when Captain Cook arrived, he claimed Australia property of The Queen of England, and brought disease over, and made life misery for the Aboriginal people.

But you have to understand that exploring is what humans do, we explore and find new places.
Would the indigeneous people of today like it if they had just left Australia, and while the rest of the world evolved into intelligent modern people we are today.
Would they like it if there were no hospitals, cars, television, shops, electricity, paved roads, modern clothes, modern sports, etc.

I just don't think it's fair to non-indigeneous people when some indigeneous people get payments and stuff, and they just spend it all on booze and drugs.
The money should be used to fix places up, for everybody, not just indigeneous people.
Indigeneous people are not more deserving than non-indigeneous people.
Why pay them money, when you dont even know how some people are going to spend it.
It should be used to fix up parks, schools, towns over run by graffiti and pollution.
Both non-indigeneous and indigeneous people should be helped out equally.:)

[Andoru]

If you're so interested in this topic, I suggest that you read the Mabo decision (http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/disp.pl/au/cases/cth/HCA/1992/23.html?query=title+%28+%22mabo%22+%29).

[taganahan]

Why pay them money, when you dont even know how some people are going to spend it.

it's like saying, why does your parents need to give you allowance when they don't know how you might spend it. you still need to understand what life is and what it means. not just by your own concept but others too.

~taganahan

[Kenshin Axel]

Yeah Andoru, I will read that thing, although it may take me some time.......

Also, one thing I forgot to put in my last post,
I don't see why they should be complaining now, it's not like Australia was turned into an apocaliptic waste land, it's still very beautiful.

And yes Taganahan, that is a good point, but I still don't think they should get the payment.
The money should be used for the good of everybody.

[Nanbanjin]

If you are in Sydney I recommend that you contact the Tranby college in Glebe.

http://www.tranby.com.au/

Tranby runs workshops on Aboriginal history and culture that I am sure you would find useful.

[Kenshin Axel]

Thanks dude,

But my interest is'nt so much on Aboriginal Culture, but on rights and stuff.

I agree that Aboriginals should recieve some stuff, because they were the first inhabitants, I just dont think they should have privelages that non-indigeneous people dont have.

[Nanbanjin]

I haven't studied at Tranby, but my mother has and is a board member at the college.

From what my mother said I think the courses at Tranby help explain the impact of European settlement in terms of your own personal impact on Aboriginal people.

In my own case the connection is obvious. My mother's family farmed land in South East Queensland for about one hundred and forty years after disposessing the local inhabitants. Aboriginals were a constant presence. My great grand mother spoke the local Aboriginal language and grew up freternising with the Aboriginal people who travelled through and who worked on our family's land. Somewhere along the line the good will she held was lost. Her son, my grandfather, refused to allow Aboriginals to even work on his farm. This was in spite of the fact that he had been wet nursed by Aboriginal women as an infant.

My father's family were German immigrants who mined the land in Australia for about as long as my mother's family was farming it. Again, the land they worked on was appropriated at the expense of the original inhabitants.

If you really want to learn about Aboriginal rights the best people to ask are probably Aboriginals. I hope I am wrong, but you probably wont find many of them at Kendo-World.com.

[Kenshin Axel]

My ancestors werent english settlers,
In the 1800s with the gold rush, My great grandmothers family were Chinese, and my great grandfathers were irish/dutch, they came to dig gold.

You know the more I think about this topic, the less interested I am in it.
I don't really care that much about Aboriginals getting payments, free schooling etc.
Sure, it makes me a 'little' angry, but I have nothing to complain about, I'm happy. :smiley:

[Nanbanjin]

I read your original post. I am sorry for replying without having done so.

Here in Australia, I am so sick of people saying it's every non-indigineous persons responsibilities to re-write the wrongs of 200 years ago!

Nobody (at least nobody in the public sphere) says this.
Some people do say we should "right the wrongs of history". Other people would like to "re-write history" (especially people who accuse recent historians of having a "black armband" view).

I mean, Aboriginals already get free schooling, and get so many discounts off stuff.

Everyone in Australia is entitled to free schooling. Almost everybody gets government funded education to some extent, even people who go to private schools.

For homework, try listing three concrete examples of the "stuff" that Aboriginal people get discounts off. Try using google to find the exact amount discounted, and why the discount exists.

I'm not racist at all, not the slightest

You are a racist. Starting a sentence in this way does nothing to get you off the hook. Again, try using google to search for the phrase "I'm not a racist". You will find no end of examples of people like yourself who try to balance blatantly racist comments and opinions with this phrase.

I apologise if this upsets you, but given that some people would argue about the exact definition of a racist, this is my honest opinion. Try not to get too defensive. Rather, try to understand why I am saying this.

If it makes you feel better, I am probably a racist myself to some degree, but I do my damnedest not to be.

[Nanbanjin]

My ancestors werent english settlers,
In the 1800s with the gold rush, My great grandmothers family were Chinese, and my great grandfathers were irish/dutch, they came to dig gold.

You know the more I think about this topic, the less interested I am in it.
I don't really care that much about Aboriginals getting payments, free schooling etc.
Sure, it makes me a 'little' angry, but I have nothing to complain about, I'm happy. :smiley:

Try asking your grandparents what they know about the Aboriginals where they grew up.
My mother asked all her old relatives about this as part of her studies. I would be too embarassed.

I sometimes find that makes me angry is not necessarily where I channel it. I consider racial minorities off-limits though.

[Kenshin Axel]

Well,
I don't really see how I am rascist, I havent bagged out aboriginals at all.
The only things I have been saying is that we all should be treated equal, by giving aboriginal people payments for just being aboriginals is ridiculous, it's like giving somebody money just for having blonde hair.
I have a few aboriginal friends, and I don't see them any differently than my non-aboriginal friends.
Please tell me how I have been rascist.

[Kenshin Axel]

Try asking your grandparents what they know about the Aboriginals where they grew up.
No-can do, my Grandparents have passed away. :cry:

[Nanbanjin]

No-can do, my Grandparents have passed away. :cry:

I'm sorry to hear that.

Avoid saying "I'm not a racist" when dealing with this type of topic. If you think you have presented a balanced argument let other people make up their minds. Remember that being a racist means different things to different people. I should have said "I think you're a racist".

Take the following song lyrics.

"...
Number three is the unconscious racist
Not knowin' they're racist they invade your spaces
They say, "I'm not a racist, I'm not a bigot"
Yet they allow it to go on and won't admit it..."

Are you sure this doesn't describe you?

Saying "I have aboriginal friends" is also meaningless because 'friend' is very loosely defined.

Are you sure you don't see your Aboriginal friends as different from your non-Aboriginal friends?
Of the aboriginal 'friends' you have, how many have you been out to see a movie with? Have you had any of them over for dinner? Would you consider marrying any of them? Would you offer any of them a job in senior management if you were a hiring manager and they had the right qualifications? Do you think you will still be in contact with them in five years time? Is your best friend Aboriginal? Would you be able to comfortably discuss this topic with any of them?

[Atama]

Okay,


I just don't think it's fair to non-indigeneous people when some indigeneous people get payments and stuff, and they just spend it all on booze and drugs.
The money should be used to fix places up, for everybody, not just indigeneous people.
Indigeneous people are not more deserving than non-indigeneous people.
Why pay them money, when you dont even know how some people are going to spend it.
It should be used to fix up parks, schools, towns over run by graffiti and pollution.
Both non-indigeneous and indigeneous people should be helped out equally.:)

Welcome to the real world, most people have been at the same point as you at some time in their life and have to come to realise the world isn't fair, its not fair that the indigenous people had their land taken, its not fair that everyone else has to pay taxes,its not fair that adults have to work while their kids spend their hard earned cash on beer and video games and it certainly isn't fair that most things bad in the world are blamed on the WHITE MAN (thank god I'm a woman) but thats life I'm afraid.

So at the end of the day you have two choices try to change the problem (good luck with that) or put on a happy face and get along with life the best way you can . Don't forget kendo is always a good for relieving stress.

in the words of monty python "always look on the bright side of life".... :wink:

Lisa

[taganahan]

one more thing.........life is bliss and bliss is life.

~taganahan

[Kenshin Axel]

Of the aboriginal 'friends' you have, how many have you been out to see a movie with? Have you had any of them over for dinner? Would you consider marrying any of them? Would you offer any of them a job in senior management if you were a hiring manager and they had the right qualifications? Do you think you will still be in contact with them in five years time? Is your best friend Aboriginal? Would you be able to comfortably discuss this topic with any of them?
My best friend is half aboriginal, I still like him, regardless of what race he is.
I have nothing against aboriginal people, it's just not fair though.
Thats all I have been saying man, I havent said anything bad about Aboriginal people themselves.
I don't know why you see me as racist, Please tell me how I have made you think this, I'm not mad, tell me what it is so I wont offend anybody else.

I think it may have been a mistake to open this topic.
Just please nobody reply anymore, Like I said in an earlier post, I'm happy I have no need to complain about this, it's a simple thing.

Axel,

[Hai_hai]

My best friend is half aboriginal, I still like him, regardless of what race he is.
I have nothing against aboriginal people, it's just not fair though.
Thats all I have been saying man, I havent said anything bad about Aboriginal people themselves.
I don't know why you see me as racist, Please tell me how I have made you think this, I'm not mad, tell me what it is so I wont offend anybody else.

I think it may have been a mistake to open this topic.
Just please nobody reply anymore, Like I said in an earlier post, I'm happy I have no need to complain about this, it's a simple thing.

Axel,
What you deem as fair may not be fair to someone else. Sometimes, it's called injustice. You are too young and inexperienced to know what that is. Go play with your toys.

[D'Artagnan]

Ahh, Axel i remember when i was your age...

I was a brat also.

[LNGUYEN]

Alright, here is the situation. 200 Years ago, they lost their land and the way of their lives to the White who explored and took whateverland they saw, put on the map, named it their own ways, and claim it to the queen, king, or whoever, all did in the name of exploring. After 200 years exploited it, and owned it and made it become a white men world then suddenly, they said, jeez, what we did were wrong and now to show that we are better, and as civilize as always, we gave them some benefits as we think would help them to adapt to our way of lives. Free School to teach them English, free or discount foods and give them aid (money) and if they used it as not the same way as we think best, we ain't happy. Let see how much do we give them to show that we are the good guy, jeez, .001% of budget (theory) and if they used it to buy alcohol, we pissed. Why didn't they make more money like us by investing in the stock, open a school (then don't have enough money to hire teachers, maintenance the property), develope the area, blah blah, blah. I think we treat a beggar better than them.

You have to look deeper into the situation before complaining. They ain't got that much, they don't want and can't live like you are, they have no culture left to hold on. Everyone look at them as poor, pity victims and need to be treat nicely like we treat our dogs, and if the dog bite back, we blame it on stressful, bad foods, take them to vet. to see what's wrong. However, if the aboriginal didn't do like want, we diss them like they are a rotten in the society.

You want to really help them, then give them back their lives, their lands, and go back to Europe, or less, use their language as the official language, because that is the language being used for thousand years before little 200 Years of occupying in the name of exploring. Put one of them to be prime minister, call all of them by sir, madam, wear clothes like them, teach your children the aboriginal way of life and culture.

Before you can do that, then just stopping complain and think they are doing no good with the tax money.

[Kenshin Axel]

Go play with your toys.
:ermm::ermm::ermm::ermm::ermm:?????

[KhawMengLee]

Hey everybody,
I've been thinking about this a fair bit.
Here in Australia, I am so sick of people saying it's every non-indigineous persons responsibilities to re-write the wrongs of 200 years ago!
I mean, Aboriginals already get free schooling, and get so many discounts off stuff.
I mean, move on, 200 years ago was along time ago.
I'm not racist at all, not the slightest, I just don't think I have any obligation to "re-write the wrongs of 200 years ago"


The obligation is there because Aboriginal culture was never fully intergrated into the West. Basically, they were uprooted from the land and sort of left on the side(out in the middle of nowhere...aka. Tasmania) to fester and be forgotten.

Now if you killed them off, there would be no complaints. No, I'm not advocating genocide but stating a simple fact. Look at England for example, the original inhabitants of England were the Celtic groups and they were wiped out, fought off and bred out by the ANglo Saxon invaders. As British society progressed the remaining groups like the Scots and Irish and Welsh were integrated into society.

Aborigines are given free education, dole, healthcare, etc buuuuuuuuuut are they accepted into Australian Society? No.

Tho racism is an issue it's not the only reason. Aboriginal culture is not based on permanent land settlement. They do not have the same social structure as most groups in the world. Chinese, Japanese, Lebanese eceteranese are used to living within a structured society of city life...Aboriginies have only been recently introduced to it(200 years is not a long time).

Therefor, their intergration into western culture takes longer.

I don't agree on giving away freebies. I think that just breeds lazyness, not for Aborigines only but for everyone. The amount of scams I've seen involving the dole makes me sick. I may agree that freebies are wrong BUT I disagree that we should not be obligated to help.

What I believe is that intergration and equality is the key. Give them opportunities, education, proper incentives. Don't just dump 200 bucks in their hands and then say "Okay, my job is done!"

Think of a child growing up, you don't just dump money in their lap and say "righto, off you go!". You teach and bring them to understand.

[KhawMengLee]

Go play with your toys.

Are they Sexy Toys?

[Nanbanjin]

I don't know why you see me as racist, Please tell me how I have made you think this, I'm not mad, tell me what it is so I wont offend anybody else.


LOL
Were you hoping people would agree with you? Try the One Nation website for that.

You showed racism the moment you singled Aboriginals out for receiving unfair allocation of public funds. More so because you did this with little/no knowledge of the underlying issues.
You seem fairly geniune, but this type of question is often asked more in search of affirmation of already held prejudices than for knowledge that will help you understand the issue. Maybe it is a good thing that you asked the question here.

At thirteen you are not too young to understand these issues. Plenty of adults are too stupid to do this though.

You are lucky to have a good friend who is Aboriginal. If you get the chance try discussing the issues you have raised here with him. You might find that he thinks Aboriginals get too much funding. Allocation of funds is always tricky because the most needy are usually also the most vulnerable.

On a final note - I will leave this alone now - Australian Aboriginals are among the most empoverished people in the world. The last 200 hundred years have been a tragedy for Aboriginal people. If you can't feel that at least try to understand it. If you want to be forgiven ask for forgiveness, but don't expect it to be given.

[Andoru]

No offence to the posters in this thread, but I still can't believe that we're debating Aboriginal rights on a Kendo forum.

[Nanbanjin]

The previous five threads in "Flames".

What fate would you choose for Hai_Hai?
Why do people hate Americans???
Free lessons for re-educating misterkurukuru!!!
Why do people like to take a crack at the U.S at every chance?
Do Americans believe they didn't lose the Vietnam war?

Where's the kendo?

[Andoru]

That's a valid point mate, and I'm not flaming you for posting. But the issue of Australian Aboriginal rights does appear to be more exclusive to Aussies (or anyone who knows Australian history) don't you think (without including other aboriginal rights in other countries that is)?

I do in fact agree with many of the points you've listed, but I feel that this thread loses relevance because not many people can participate in it (or know enough Australian history to do so in the first place) and also because at the end of the day, we'd be debating with a 13 year old kid.

[Nanbanjin]

People need to understand that Australia is the world centre for kendo so anything relevant to our culture is by default relevant to all kendoists.

The activist in me wants to alert to world to the plight of Australian Aboriginals.
I don't have a problem arguing with a thirteen year old.

[Kenshin Axel]

Hmmmmm,
Many good points have been brought up, but Nanbanjin, whaddya mean Aboriginals are the some of the most empoverished people in the world?
What about those starving kids in Ethiopia whose parents are dead and they have to take care of there siblings with only rats and contaminated water as food.
Sure Aboriginals have had a really hard time in the last 200 years but some people have to undergo much worse.

Don't think I don't feel that Aboriginals havent had a hard time, I mean like you said before, how your great Grandpa wouldnt even let an Aboriginal work on his farm even after an Aboriginal woman took care of him when he was a child.
I just think if Aboriginal people get help, non-indigeneous people should be helped just as much.
I dunno, I am very confused, I don't think they are more deserving than non-indigeneous, but then again they are.

Also, my best friend, I don't see how he would need funding anyway, he's got a perfectly good family, and he's actually pretty fortunate.


And khawmenglee, I don't really see my punching bag as sexy.

[KhawMengLee]

Hmmmmm,
Many good points have been brought up, but Nanbanjin, whaddya mean Aboriginals are the some of the most empoverished people in the world?
What about those starving kids in Ethiopia whose parents are dead and they have to take care of there siblings with only rats and contaminated water as food.

And khawmenglee, I don't really see my punching bag as sexy.


The difference is that Ethiopia is a nation that is starving. Australia is a nation far more advanced that Ethiopia, yet its aboriginal population live in poverty.

As I said before, you cannot just give money to people. The charity needs to be managed.

sexy punching bag eh?hmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Hinokuni]

Hmmmmm,
Many good points have been brought up, but Nanbanjin, whaddya mean Aboriginals are the some of the most empoverished people in the world?
What about those starving kids in Ethiopia whose parents are dead and they have to take care of there siblings with only rats and contaminated water as food.
Sure Aboriginals have had a really hard time in the last 200 years but some people have to undergo much worse.

Dear 'Kenshin'

On average, Aboriginals have a life expectancy 21 years less than the rest of the population. Illiteracy and alcoholism levels are far above the Australian average. Aboriginals are also far more likely to die of preventable diseases (something that will never happen to you.)

In contrast, your life expectancy and standard of living have risen steadily over the last 20 years.

While you are likely to receive an education and live into your late 70s in relative wealth and health, the average impoverished aboriginal will probably die of a cureable disease/accidental death in his/her mid 50's.

I strongly suggest you examine your conscience and decide whether you really begrudge whatever bone from your plate an aboriginal is taking. Do you really lack the generosity and humanity and give to your fellow man without expecting something in return?

[KhawMengLee]

Seriously tho, some of the planners for these funds are real morons. Its like when we had the East Timor refugees here and they were given $20 phone cards to call back home.

I mean who the hell are they going to call. Lessee, riots outside, total infrastructure collapse, chaos and destruction....oh, I'm sure the phone lines still work.

[Kenshin Axel]

Like I said before,

I dont care, I am happy, I am not angry about this.

I have learned alot more since opening this topic.

I just think it's wrong when Aboriginal people get payed and they spend it wrongly.

Khawmenglee, yes it's very sexy.

[Hinokuni]

I just think it's wrong when Aboriginal people get payed and they spend it wrongly.So your main gripe with the Aboriginal people is their spending habits.

[KhawMengLee]

I just think it's wrong when Aboriginal people get payed and they spend it wrongly.

Khawmenglee, yes it's very sexy.

Exactly, a better program needs to be put forward. I know what is on your mind, and that is they spend it on booze. Mates of mine who worked in rural areas would tell me nightmare stories about this(they are doctors and med students). eg. how one aboriginal fella walked out of recovery in his med gown to go drink in the pub next door.

Maybe things like food stamps instead of straight cash should be issued or a electronic swipe card which prohibits certain items being bought. But that is only one part that needs to be looked at.

Aborigines need to find their pride back. They need to be able to look to the horizon and see a real future for themselves. A future where they can get the life they see in social stereotypes. A family, a steady job, the right to rise above all if they try hard. Not just a dole cheque and then a closed door when they want to try.

Believe me, as much as society says its not there, racism against aborigines is real. In High School it was open(I wont have to mention how many times I heard Bungs[boo-oongs] being said in a day). Now its more discrete, the look of contempt I see when an aboriginal person enters a store or the blatant remark a cabbie would pass.

[Hinokuni]

Exactly, a better program needs to be put forward. I know what is on your mind, and that is they spend it on booze. Mates of mine who worked in rural areas would tell me nightmare stories about this(they are doctors and med students). eg. how one aboriginal fella walked out of recovery in his med gown to go drink in the pub next door.
Nothing firmer than ancedotal evidence, that's what I say!

Aborigines need to find their pride back.Yep, and food stamps or electronic swipe cards are just the thing for that.

A future where they can get the life they see in social stereotypes. Promulgated by..?

Believe me, as much as society says its not there, racism against aborigines is real. Really? What should we be on the look out for?

[gsx1100s]

I've been sitting on the side lines and have only one this to add. Research your facts , then come back with some facts rather than blanket generalizations . I am not having a go , just sick to death of hearing the phrase "they all...." So you've met every Aboriginal in Australia??:rolleyes: Well then I guess we should get back to that matter of research:) :wink: .

Cheers Michael

[KhawMengLee]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KhawMengLee
Exactly, a better program needs to be put forward. I know what is on your mind, and that is they spend it on booze. Mates of mine who worked in rural areas would tell me nightmare stories about this(they are doctors and med students). eg. how one aboriginal fella walked out of recovery in his med gown to go drink in the pub next door.


Nothing firmer than ancedotal evidence, that's what I say!


Quote:
Originally Posted by KhawMengLee
Aborigines need to find their pride back.

Yep, and food stamps or electronic swipe cards are just the thing for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KhawMengLee
A future where they can get the life they see in social stereotypes.

Promulgated by..?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KhawMengLee
Believe me, as much as society says its not there, racism against aborigines is real.

Really? What should we be on the look out for?

1) Look, I grew up in Australia and though it sounds politically incorrect a large majority of Abriginal people have a problem with alchohol. I am not trying to humiliate them, rather point out how the system in place is not helping them by giving them money.

2) As said before, the problems aborigines face is not a simple one. Yes, they get benefits but it is not well managed. The issue of regaining their pride is another topic.

3) Social stereotypes of the perfect life put forth by our peers, religion, society, TV, etc take your pick. You know, the usual...a good job, so you can support a family, planning for the future...etc etc

4) sigh...

[Random m0f0]

Those fuckin coons can all fuck off and die in my opinion. Those leeching, slackass deadshit fuckwits do nothing but sink piss, fuck, abuse their women and children and piss on the rest of society for trying to help them.

Fucking losers.

[Kaoru]

Those fuckin coons can all fuck off and die in my opinion. Those leeching, slackass deadshit fuckwits do nothing but sink piss, fuck, abuse their women and children and piss on the rest of society for trying to help them.

Fucking losers.
If you keep this up, you will get banned. This forum is not for swearing at everyone. It is for intelligent and clean dicussions. If you can't be polite then please leave and find another forum to harrass.

Kaoru

[Random m0f0]

Fuck off idiot.

[Kenshin Axel]

Nevermind him Kaoru,
He's just an idiot trying to get us all worked up.
I don't know what his problem is, he's posting crap in all topics.
I think he's some loser who found out about the internet, He probaly isnt even interested in Kendo or any martial arts.
He'll be banned very soon.

[Kaoru]

Nevermind him Kaoru,
He's just an idiot trying to get us all worked up.
I don't know what his problem is, he's posting crap in all topics.
I think he's some loser who found out about the internet, He probaly isnt even interested in Kendo or any martial arts.
He'll be banned very soon.

hehehe, Thanks Kenshin-san. :) I think you are right. I finally decided to ignore him and hope he gets banned. Who knows what his problem is... He is unhappy, that is for sure. Yeah, I doubt he does Kendo.

Kaoru

[D'Artagnan]

Those fuckin coons can all fuck off and die in my opinion. Those leeching, slackass deadshit fuckwits do nothing but sink piss, fuck, abuse their women and children and piss on the rest of society for trying to help them.

Fucking losers.


That just isn't funny mate....

I don't particularly care for this topic either, but there is no need for that.

but thanks for letting me test the 'report bad post' icon, i had never used it before.

[kanyil]

pretty interesting discussion. I do not pretend to understand the plight of the aborigine or their way of life but I do believe it is an issue that many countries (not just Australia) is currently facing. just my quick two cents on the issue.

having read the Mabo and Wik cases myself I must confess I do not at first understand what the big fuss was, let along the court's rationale behind the decision. while the mass relocations, "stolen children" and land expropriations sound terrible, the general populace (i.e. voters) never experienced it and hence do not feel it the same way. the practical question, at the end of the day, is what the society can (and should) do for something which occurred so long ago.

I personally do not believe outright payments will work. special concessions such as gambling reserves (i.e. American Indian reserves) only serves to widen the perceived gap between the aborigines and the general public. "Levelling the playing field" in such a way may only make life harder for other minorities who do not receive similar benefits (dare I say affirmative action?). On the other hand, it is also apparent that some communities need all the help they can get.

The only certain thing is that there is no easy solution.

[Paikea]

I personally do not believe outright payments will work. special concessions such as gambling reserves (i.e. American Indian reserves) only serves to widen the perceived gap between the aborigines and the general public.DISCLAIMER: Typically, I can be so conservative as to make William F. Buckley look like a Naderite (but that's been mellowing for the last three years - wonder why?)

...but it is very amusing to observe the same tribal governments that were getting stepped on 20-25 years ago "driving the bus" in local government because now they have political power (money). It's even better that's it's financed by catering to the gambling and tobacco addictions of the dominant culture. The symmetry is beautiful.


The only certain thing is that there is no easy solution.
Indeed.

[indigo0086]

Are there many aboriginal Kendoka?

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Alright, here is the situation. 200 Years ago, they lost their land and the way of their lives to the White who explored and took whateverland they saw, put on the map, named it their own ways, and claim it to the queen, king, or whoever, all did in the name of exploring.
*snip*
You lose the war, the other guys take your land and make the rules, as far as I can tell thats pretty much the way it's been throughout history, including between groups of the aboriginal people of Africa, North America, South America, and probably Australia as well. It's politically correct to pretend that only the White
operated that way, but it's not true, go to Japan and ask an Ainu, if you can find one.

[KingCanute]

the problem is that the divide is cultural/social more than political and economic. Native's are not significantly less capable than the average american but the average american/australian wont give them a chance. Thanks to the widespread drugs problems within their society it is just a downward spiral at the moment.

[Lloromannic]

I personally do not believe outright payments will work. special concessions such as gambling reserves (i.e. American Indian reserves) only serves to widen the perceived gap between the aborigines and the general public. "Levelling the playing field" in such a way may only make life harder for other minorities who do not receive similar benefits (dare I say affirmative action?). On the other hand, it is also apparent that some communities need all the help they can get.
I agree with you that simple payments do not work, and neither does tax dodges and similar stuff, what is needed is a "extreme" process of equalization, NOT compensation, nothing can compensate such things, problem then is: what if they don't want a "modern" lifestyle, should they be forced?. Here in Mexico we also have those problems and we seem to get nowhere fast.

the problem is that the divide is cultural/social more than political and economic. Native's are not significantly less capable than the average american but the average american/australian wont give them a chance. Thanks to the widespread drugs problems within their society it is just a downward spiral at the moment.

Here the division is not so huge because the majority of the population has mixed ancestry and a family that can trace a "pure" spanish bloodline back to the XVI century is extremely rare. However what we have is a huge problem with political parties buying their vote with the aid destined to them, I am part of a group that goes to many rural communities in below poverty conditions (shacks made of sticks and held together by garbage bags) and the first times the first thing they said after we gave them the food (it was for those families with malnourished children) was "who do I have to vote for?", the parties make them vote for them as a conditio to get food and most of of the food sent to them by non government association dissapears on the way.

[Kaoru]

Here the division is not so huge because the majority of the population has mixed ancestry and a family that can trace a "pure" spanish bloodline back to the XVI century is extremely rare. However what we have is a huge problem with political parties buying their vote with the aid destined to them, I am part of a group that goes to many rural communities in below poverty conditions (shacks made of sticks and held together by garbage bags) and the first times the first thing they said after we gave them the food (it was for those families with malnourished children) was "who do I have to vote for?", the parties make them vote for them as a conditio to get food and most of of the food sent to them by non government association dissapears on the way.
That is really sad... Those parties(Whomever it is who makes them vote for them in return for food.) are so mean! They only care about themselves. GRRRR!!! Maybe they should be made to live as those people do, and have THEM be made to starve if they don't vote for whom they are told to. Maybe then, they'd shut up and give them the food with no strings attached if they had to be put in the other's shoes for once. Taking advantage that way is shameless and cruel, IMHO. And, how can people(IE, the disappearing food.) take food meant for starving people?? GRRRR!!!! Have they NO conscience???

Ohhhh.... :( Please excuse the rant. It just makes me upset when people behave like that toward others. Sorry.

Kaoru

[kanyil]

You lose the war, the other guys take your land and make the rules, as far as I can tell thats pretty much the way it's been throughout history, including between groups of the aboriginal people of Africa, North America, South America, and probably Australia as well. It's politically correct to pretend that only the operated that way, but it's not true, go to Japan and ask an Ainu, if you can find one.
to be fair, I think Stimpson J. Cat did make a good point. and when somebody fights back well they usually get a better deal. just compare the treatment accorded to the New Zealand Maori (as guaranteed by the treaty of Waitangi) with those given to the Australian aborigines.

[nickyroony]

I used to have exactly the same viewpoint as you. Until this year when I have to study the compulsory Australian History course. That was when I truly understand everything. To learn about the severity and extreme dispossesions they had to go through. Most people who have yet to study the course or left school before the course was introduced seem to think that this Aboriginal issue is simply about making it up to them for what they had experienced, but it's so much more than that.

First of all, you brought up an example of a poor white boy who can't afford things and Aborigines getting preference over him. Now as the other members had already stated, Aborigines experience more poverty than other Australians. True, other people are poor also, but their race hasn't been poor for the past 200 years. We all want no one to be poor right? Now Aborigines can't escape their cicle of poverty without the help of government fundings. EDUCATION is needed for them to escape out of that cicle. Without the fundings, they can't have the necessary education they need to break that cicle that has been going on for the past 200 years. If you take away the funding, or even argue against it, that's like condemning their race to another 200 years of poverty.

Anyway, if we take away those rights, we would never hear the end of it from the United Nations. They're already complaining about us not treating the Aborigines right even today. Even with current fundings, the international communities are still not satisfied.

I think you'll understand more as you go through school. Looking at your age (13), you're probably about year 8 or 9? Wait till year 10 when you do the course. You'll understand so much more.

[louisvandalen]

1) Look, I grew up in Australia and though it sounds politically incorrect a large majority of Abriginal people have a problem with alchohol. I am not trying to humiliate them, rather point out how the system in place is not helping them by giving them money.
Yeeeehaaaaaaaaaa,

I met Aussies all over the globe. Never ever saw one that was sober I think.

Keep up the good work!

Best Regards,

Louis
(Live on the other side of Australia)

[KhawMengLee]

Yeeeehaaaaaaaaaa,

I met Aussies all over the globe. Never ever saw one that was sober I think.

Keep up the good work!

Best Regards,

Louis
(Live on the other side of Australia)

Cheers Mate,

still drunk as ever, except, its Chivas here and no VB's...got plenty of Fosters tho', except no true blue Aussie would drink that pigs piss.

[KamiKiller5000]

What are some good beers that Australians do like?

[bullet08]

crap.. met an aussie two years ago at a wedding. he did say foster is pigs piss. and they drink something else.. but it's brewed by same brewer.. can't remember the name. crown or something..

[Nanbanjin]

crap.. met an aussie two years ago at a wedding. he did say foster is pigs piss. and they drink something else.. but it's brewed by same brewer.. can't remember the name. crown or something..]

I think VB accounts for something like 40% of all beer sales in Australia. I am not a big drinker but I don't mind VB. James Boags (Premium or Strongarm) is a good drop. Cascade lager is popular. As a rule of thumb beer that comes from Tasmania is the best and the quality deteriorates as you get further away. Not surprisingly XXXX gold, which comes from Queensland, is the worst.
You are thinking of Crown lager, which is enjoyed by people with lots of money but no sense.

[Andoru]

]

I think VB accounts for something like 40% of all beer sales in Australia. I am not a big drinker but I don't mind VB. James Boags (Premium or Strongarm) is a good drop. Cascade lager is popular. As a rule of thumb beer that comes from Tasmania is the best and the quality deteriorates as you get further away. Not surprisingly XXXX gold, which comes from Queensland, is the worst.
You are thinking of Crown lager, which is enjoyed by people with lots of money but no sense.
Agreed. Queenslanders can't spell "beer" hence the XXXX :D

VB is always dependable, and so is Cascade. I love Hahn's Premium though.

[KhawMengLee]

Heh, South Aussies love Cooper's Pale Ale. VB's not too bad. I'm more partial to Carlton Cold or Hahn Ice. Strongbow Cider is good as well.

Fosters, as I said earlier is fermented sweat of a dog's bollocks.

[reg]

]

I think VB accounts for something like 40% of all beer sales in Australia. I am not a big drinker but I don't mind VB. James Boags (Premium or Strongarm) is a good drop. Cascade lager is popular. As a rule of thumb beer that comes from Tasmania is the best and the quality deteriorates as you get further away. Not surprisingly XXXX gold, which comes from Queensland, is the worst.
You are thinking of Crown lager, which is enjoyed by people with lots of money but no sense.
only rich boy show offs drink crownies. queenslanders are all in denial. they're proud of their XXXX, but deep down inside they all know it's pitiful. boutique beers are all the rage nowadays. VB is good enough, and reasonably priced. i don't know why lots of people knock it, maybe because they think it's cheap and too common. i agree james boags are quite nice. i tried becks recently, and despite my friends' approval, i thought it was quite ordinary. not bad, but i'd choose others over it. like a round of KBs or five.

ps you're not a man until you've had guinness!

[KhawMengLee]

ps you're not a man until you've had guinness!

Ah...but you're not a Irishman until you've drank a Guinness in Ireland!

[reg]

Ah...but you're not a Irishman until you've drank a Guinness in Ireland!
but why on earth would you want to be an irishman?? :smiley:

[kanyil]

VB's nice when it's ice cold, and could get quite bitter if it gets anywhere near room temperature. Carlton Mid-Strength's pretty nice too, not too heavy.

XXXX is a bit on the dodgey side, but you have to admit that the brand has a certain appeal. when I first got off the plane I thought to myself..."those Aussies are hardcore, I wonder what the extra X stands for".

[Nanbanjin]

VB's nice when it's ice cold, and could get quite bitter if it gets anywhere near room temperature. Carlton Mid-Strength's pretty nice too, not too heavy.

You can get bad batches with VB. If you let it get to near room temperature you've been mulling over it way too long.

[Kendoka]

Axel Briskey does not -
1. Do kendo
2. Represent the views of the majority of Australians on aboriginal issues
3. Realy know what he is talikng about
4. Drink beer
5. Care much about a civilised society helping fellow citizens when they need a bit of help
6. Know how to build an interesting website
7. Understand that such statements as the below, are racisit -
My best friend is half aboriginal, I still like him, regardless of what race he is...

Axel,
8. Understand that many if not most aboriginals are not as well off and healthy as the rest of us.

And to comment on a few other things that have been said in this discussion.

Not all Australians are descended from English settlers.

Australia has been independent of England, governementally, if not emotionally, for over 100 years.

Some Australians from certain ethnic groups are quite racist.

Some Australians from less populous areas and a couple of states are also quite racist.

Most aboriginals live in rural areas where employment opportunities are not as good as the towns and cities.

Any Australian can receive free education and health care. Those with a job pay some.

In some cases aboriginals have been given back their land and that program continues, albeit slowly.

Some Australian posters in this thread grew up in Australias version of Alabama.

[louisvandalen]

Axel Briskey does not -

4. Drink beer
Ban him, ban him, ban him !!!!

Best Regards,

Louis

[Nanbanjin]

Axel Briskey does not -
1. Do kendo
2. Represent the views of the majority of Australians on aboriginal issues
3. Realy know what he is talikng about
4. Drink beer
5. Care much about a civilised society helping fellow citizens when they need a bit of help
6. Know how to build an interesting website
7. Understand that such statements as the below, are racisit -

8. Understand that many if not most aboriginals are not as well off and healthy as the rest of us.

And to comment on a few other things that have been said in this discussion.

Not all Australians are descended from English settlers.

Australia has been independent of England, governementally, if not emotionally, for over 100 years.

Some Australians from certain ethnic groups are quite racist.

Some Australians from less populous areas and a couple of states are also quite racist.

Most aboriginals live in rural areas where employment opportunities are not as good as the towns and cities.

Any Australian can receive free education and health care. Those with a job pay some.

In some cases aboriginals have been given back their land and that program continues, albeit slowly.

Some Australian posters in this thread grew up in Australias version of Alabama.


Thanks Richard. Nice summary.

Peter

[Wifenmummy]

"Any Australian can receive free education and health care. Those with a job pay some."
well said... were all australian so it doesnt matter much to me.. what gets a bit annoying is filling out forms and seeing 'are u aboriginal or torres strait island?'! why is that? are they just taking there own census?!!!
my mums side are scottish settlers and my dad is from england

end of transmission

[Kaoru]

Axel Briskey does not -
1. Do kendo
2. Represent the views of the majority of Australians on aboriginal issues
3. Realy know what he is talikng about
4. Drink beer
5. Care much about a civilised society helping fellow citizens when they need a bit of help
6. Know how to build an interesting website
7. Understand that such statements as the below, are racisit -

8. Understand that many if not most aboriginals are not as well off and healthy as the rest of us.

And to comment on a few other things that have been said in this discussion.

Not all Australians are descended from English settlers.

Australia has been independent of England, governementally, if not emotionally, for over 100 years.

Some Australians from certain ethnic groups are quite racist.

Some Australians from less populous areas and a couple of states are also quite racist.

Most aboriginals live in rural areas where employment opportunities are not as good as the towns and cities.

Any Australian can receive free education and health care. Those with a job pay some.

In some cases aboriginals have been given back their land and that program continues, albeit slowly.

Some Australian posters in this thread grew up in Australias version of Alabama. Kendoka-san does not realise that Axel-san is a 13 year old kid with questions he needed answered. Be nice, Kendoka-san. He's only a kid. He doesn't know everything, and neither do you. You know what really annoys me? People who pick on kids and other people.

Axel Briskey does not -
2. Represent the views of the majority of Australians on aboriginal issues Of course not. He's a 13 year old kid asking people questions he can't answer himself yet. Saying this was not fair.

Oh, and by way, if a person thinks they need to get drunk to have fun, they are seriously mistaken. I don't drink, and I hate the stuff. So what if he doesn't drink beer? It is not important. The person themselves is more important than some drink that can kill another. Get your priorities in order.

Whether or not he does Kendo is not important here, either, He's not trying to give out bogus Kendo advice, so that was spiteful of you.

And, picking on his website was uncalled for, too. That was just mean.

He's not racist. If you actually engaged your brain, you'd see that. He is growing up in a time where race is being talked about and complained about, so of course, he is really aware of that, and it probably bothers him, because it IS hard to understand racial issues. Being a kid is not easy. He asked because he had questions. Are you going to deny him the right to be curious and ask others for help to understand this stuff better?

He is not old enough yet, to know which thing to care about and is just discovering
major issues. It confused him, so he asked. Saying he does not "Care much about a civilised society helping fellow citizens when they need a bit of help" was not fair to say. How would you know? He does care. He just does not know what thing to be thinking right now. He's not an adult! Give the poor kid a break.

Understand that many if not most aboriginals are not as well off and healthy as the rest of us. Why do you think he was asking questions? To try to understand what the heck is going on in his world. Leave him alone. Again, a 13 year old is not going to neccesarily know this!

To pick on him is dispicable. And, not becoming of a Kenshi. I think you should apologise. If he knew all the answers, he'd not have asked us for help trying to understand.

Kaoru :(

[Andoru]

Axel who??

And where's Reg when you need him eh?

[Kaoru]

Axel who??

And where's Reg when you need him eh?
Kendoka-san is referring to the starter of this thread, Kenshin Axel. Axel is his first name, and Kendoka-san rudely posted Kenshin Axel-san's last name without his permission and not asking him first. I guess he found it on Kenshin-san's website.

Kaoru

[Nanbanjin]

Axel who??

And where's Reg when you need him eh?

Kaoru has a habit of turning all threads she is involved with into episodes of Family Ties.

[rainmaker]

easy guys~~

[Kaoru]

Kaoru has a habit of turning all threads she is involved with into episodes of Family Ties.
That wasn't very nice. What's wrong with sticking up for someone? :( Would you rather I picked on Kenshin Axel-san instead also? Would that have pleased you more? Sorry for being who I am, if it bothers you. I can't change it. I try to say the right thing... I'm not perfect.

Kaoru :(

[Nanbanjin]

That wasn't very nice. What's wrong with sticking up for someone? :( Would you rather I picked on Kenshin Axel-san instead also? Would that have pleased you more? Sorry for being who I am, if it bothers you. I can't change it. I try to say the right thing... I'm not perfect.

Kaoru :(
Lay off the saccharine. Axel hasn't posted in over a month and a half. Kendoka's post was the best contribution to this thread so far. If Axel actually read it and understood it it will have done him far more good than your mollycoddling.

[reg]

Axel who??

And where's Reg when you need him eh?
i'm reluctant to opine in matters such as this, or religion. they are topics where there is no clear right and wrong, it's all subjective. and as much as i want to comment on axel, i keep the fact that he is only 13 years old in mind, and thus giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Kaoru has a habit of turning all threads she is involved with into episodes of Family Ties.
hahaha that's GOLD! gold gold gold for nanbanjin! seriously though kaoru, this kid tried to be racist. i think he said "i'm not trying to be racist or anything.." [can't be arsed to find the quote], but people who say those types of weasel disclaimers ARE trying to be racist, but they're trying to excuse themselves by putting the lame weasel disclaimer beforehand.

don't take the family ties comment to heart, it's just that the whole nice big sisterly type of responses that you seem to revel in can get overbearing. it's not a criticism, but more of an observation.

[Wifenmummy]

Wish this topic would die.. a few people have been picked on... or feel like they have been judged..

[Kaoru]

Lay off the saccharine. Axel hasn't posted in over a month and a half. Kendoka's post was the best contribution to this thread so far. If Axel actually read it and understood it it will have done him far more good than your mollycoddling.
Well, he's probably got school to think about right now. I wasn't mollycoddling. He's only 13. You are 31. See the difference? A kid is still developing beliefs at that point and trying to decide who to believe and what to think. Some kids are more mature than others too. Kids do mature at different rates. A person should keep than mind when posting to a 13 yr. old. Not all will understand major issues.
That is why is better to just answer their questions and hope they will learn from it. Some issues may be well be over their head at this point, because of the age level and maturity level. We as adults, can't help that and must just deal with it.

Kendoka-san was out of line because he was not polite and tried make it personal.
Of course, I am going to side with a kid on this. Kenshin Axel-san, regardless of whether he is here or not, did not deserve what Kendoka-san said. He never said anything wrong or mean. Besides, he's a kid. Adults should be mature enough not to go picking on a kid when all he did was ask questions to understand something serious.

Now if he behaved as some who have been banned, or was just a jerk, well, that's another story.

Just my humble opinion. :)

Kaoru

[Nanbanjin]

Well, he's probably got school to think about right now. I wasn't mollycoddling. He's only 13. You are 31. See the difference? A kid is still developing beliefs at that point and trying to decide who to believe and what to think. Some kids are more mature than others too. Kids do mature at different rates. A person should keep than mind when posting to a 13 yr. old. Not all will understand major issues.
That is why is better to just answer their questions and hope they will learn from it. Some issues may be well be over their head at this point, because of the age level and maturity level. We as adults, can't help that and must just deal with it.

Kendoka-san was out of line because he was not polite and tried make it personal.
Of course, I am going to side with a kid on this. Kenshin Axel-san, regardless of whether he is here or not, did not deserve what Kendoka-san said. He never said anything wrong or mean. Besides, he's a kid. Adults should be mature enough not to go picking on a kid when all he did was ask questions to understand something serious.

Now if he behaved as some who have been banned, or was just a jerk, well, that's another story.

Just my humble opinion. :)

Kaoru

Stop trying to be so goddamned nice all the time! You're making me ill.
If this was the "Let's make each other sick with sweetness" forum I could understand, but this is the "FLAMES" forum, so burn baby burn!

[Kaoru]

Stop trying to be so goddamned nice all the time! You're making me ill.
If this was the "Let's make each other sick with sweetness" forum I could understand, but this is the "FLAMES" forum, so burn baby burn!
Nanbanjin-san, just because this is the flames section does not mean you have to be mean to others. This is who I am. There is nothing wrong with being nice to people no matter where or what the disussion is. I am pretty much the same in person. Sorry. If I lived in Australia, and either was in your dojo or one of us visited each other's dojo, I would not expect you speak to me.

Kaoru

[Nanbanjin]

Nanbanjin-san, just because this is the flames section does not mean you have to be mean to others. This is who I am. There is nothing wrong with being nice to people no matter where or what the disussion is. I am pretty much the same in person. Sorry. If I lived in Australia, and either was in your dojo or one of us visited each other's dojo, I would not expect you speak to me.

Kaoru

My neck is twisting around and I am vomiting green bile like Linda Blair in the Exorcist.

[Kaoru]

My neck is twisting around and I am vomiting green bile like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. Oh, is that supposed to be funny? Your sense of humour is terrible. :D (And I thought mine was bad.) hehehehe...

Well, whatever. :D Sorry I haven't anything witty to say. I can't think of anything witty when I want to. Read: Am not funny! So sad... ;) (It's true. I fail miserably if I even attempt at being funny. :) )

Kaoru

[Infinity]

]

You are thinking of Crown lager, which is enjoyed by people with lots of money but no sense.
hey! i dont mind the odd crownie...

[Nanbanjin]

Oh, is that supposed to be funny? Your sense of humour is terrible. :D (And I thought mine was bad.) hehehehe...

Well, whatever. :D Sorry I haven't anything witty to say. I can't think of anything witty when I want to. Read: Am not funny! So sad... ;) (It's true. I fail miserably if I even attempt at being funny. :) )

Kaoru

No, this is no joke. Excessive use of smiley faces has the same effect on me.

[Nanbanjin]

hey! i dont mind the odd crownie...

Feel like a crownie after training this Saturday?

[Infinity]

Feel like a crownie after training this Saturday?i dont think im up to training on saturdays with the big boys just yet. let me get used to my bogu actually fitting and getting used to being hit.
does a beer after training negate all good a heavy physical workout does to one's body?

[Nanbanjin]

i dont think im up to training on saturdays with the big boys just yet. let me get used to my bogu actually fitting and getting used to being hit.
does a beer after training negate all good a heavy physical workout does to one's body?

The beer afterwards is the icing on the cake of a good session of keiko.

BTW, how's the new gear?

[Andoru]

does a beer after training negate all good a heavy physical workout does to one's body?
Course not. You'd be practising renzoku waza during beer keiko anyway! The amber stuff also cools the body down and provides it with much needed nutrients for recovery.

[Kaoru]

No, this is no joke. Excessive use of smiley faces has the same effect on me. hehehehe, Really?? :evil:

:D:rolleyes::p:cheerful:;):surprise::eek:

*wonders what's going to happen when he sees all those* :confused:

Kaoru :D

[Nanbanjin]

hehehehe, Really?? :evil:

:D:rolleyes::p:cheerful:;):surprise::eek:

*wonders what's going to happen when he sees all those* :confused:

Kaoru :D

hahaha.
Now you're showing your true colours you cruel heartless woman.

[Infinity]

Course not. You'd be practising renzoku waza during beer keiko anyway! The amber stuff also cools the body down and provides it with much needed nutrients for recovery.actually i have done a bit of research on beer and the athlete. it turns out that athletes tend to deplete their body's natural reserves of a mineral called chromium. beer has that mineral. drink more beer and train hard.

[Nanbanjin]

i dont think im up to training on saturdays with the big boys just yet. let me get used to my bogu actually fitting and getting used to being hit.
does a beer after training negate all good a heavy physical workout does to one's body?

Saturday just has no separate beginner's class. I started three beginners on Saturdays but only one still comes. He trains with the rest of us even though he still doesn't have bogu. Cam is a bit of an exception because I started him off on Saturdays and he knows the deal. I'm just too lazy to set up a separate class for beginners. I might try to start a new beginner's session on Saturday or Sunday afternoon once my exams are over. I'd need to discuss this with John of course.
For those with new Koei bogu you are welcome to come and train with us anytime. You can train with us even if you are using old club bogu.

[Infinity]

Saturday just has no separate beginner's class. I started three beginners on Saturdays but only one still comes. He trains with the rest of us even though he still doesn't have bogu. Cam is a bit of an exception because I started him off on Saturdays and he knows the deal. I'm just too lazy to set up a separate class for beginners. I might try to start a new beginner's session on Saturday or Sunday afternoon once my exams are over. I'd need to discuss this with John of course.
For those with new Koei bogu you are welcome to come and train with us anytime. You can train with us even if you are using old club bogu.i think i may have been a bit worried about frustrating the more advanced kendoka with my limited experience. However, i am beginning to understand that there is more to kendo that executing perfect waza and receiving cuts correctly.

I will be there on Saturday.

[Kendoka]

Well, he's probably got school to think about right now. I wasn't mollycoddling. He's only 13. You are 31. See the difference? A kid is still developing beliefs at that point and trying to decide who to believe and what to think. Some kids are more mature than others too. Kids do mature at different rates. A person should keep than mind when posting to a 13 yr. old. Not all will understand major issues.
That is why is better to just answer their questions and hope they will learn from it. Some issues may be well be over their head at this point, because of the age level and maturity level. We as adults, can't help that and must just deal with it.

Kendoka-san was out of line because he was not polite and tried make it personal.
Of course, I am going to side with a kid on this. Kenshin Axel-san, regardless of whether he is here or not, did not deserve what Kendoka-san said. He never said anything wrong or mean. Besides, he's a kid. Adults should be mature enough not to go picking on a kid when all he did was ask questions to understand something serious.

Now if he behaved as some who have been banned, or was just a jerk, well, that's another story.

Just my humble opinion. :)

Kaoru
Hello Kaoru,
I was not rude. I was adding a balance and some fact to what Axel was writing.

Some of what he wrote is offensive and in this country would be judged to be a racist comment.

Axel was not asking questions he was expressing an opinion.

I did know that he is a kid and whether he is 13 or 31 matters not, what matters is what he wrote and the attitudes that he described.

The reference to beer was an attempt at humour, playing on an off topic discussion and of course kids are not permitted to drink beer except under the control of their parents. Axel is a kid.

I was not "personal", I commented on the issues raised.

[Kaoru]

hahaha.
Now you're showing your true colours you cruel heartless woman.
hahaha! I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it made me laugh. :D

Kaoru

[Nanbanjin]

hahaha! I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it made me laugh. :D

Kaoru

Hmm, are you as good looking as you are dopey? Please post pics.

[Kaoru]

Hmm, are you as good looking as you are dopey? Please post pics.
Wow, you sure are forward! Ummm, is that supposed to be a compliment? (Because it could go either way, you know.) *speechless* I've been called naive a lot, but never dopey!

Kaoru

[Nanbanjin]

Wow, you sure are forward! Ummm, is that supposed to be a compliment? (Because it could go either way, you know.) *speechless* I've been called naive a lot, but never dopey!

Kaoru

I'm a randy old goat! I'll monitor the "Post pictures of yourself" thread with bated breath.

If you want to take my last post as a compliment be my guest (thought a less "naive" person would probably just tell me to get stuffed).

Being dumb seems to have become a virtue anyway. I've noticed on some other threads that people displaying anything but abject stupidity are branded as "European" or having "European values". Is this pigeonholing part of some new type of discrimination against smart people?

p.s. contratulations on your 500th post.