Another kiai thread =(

[Machismo111]

Howdy guys. Sorry if this question's already been asked. I checked around a little but didn't see anything. I'm sure it's been addressed before though, so bear with me ^_^.

Im just curious about all the excess kiai in matches. I understand it's like spirit or will or whatever and you're trying to intimidate your opponent or something, but when a match begins I've noticed both challengers typically give a kiai. Or when they're standing there, kiai. Is that really necessary? If you yell too much it seems like you'd be wasting energy, no?

I noticed a thread about like...putting kiai in your left lung? I'm not sure I can even tell one lung from the other. My point is...Im sure if you don't respond to an opponent's Kiai you'll seem weak, but of course staying quiet wont lose you the match (unless you don't kiai on your strikes). In my opinion, yelling more wont win you the match. Will people sort of look down on you if you don't kiai a bunch?

Sorry if this is a repost, and thanks for taking the time to read =D.

[Yann]

My sensei explains that a loud kiai at the beginning helps to de-stress you, so that you can do your best kendo. Also it has this "auto motivation" effect :P.This should be some of the reasons of the shiai beginning' kiai, I guess.
A big kiai also FULLY empties (?) your lungs and will then help you to breath more efficiently. (He explains that better than me lol).

May the more experienced kendokas explain their views on this...

[taganahan]

kiai scares off your enemies. kiai takes away your nervousness(this works for me). kiai is part of kendo. kiai is tells the opponent that you can go against him without any fear.

~taganahan

[DCPan]

Im just curious about all the excess kiai in matches. I understand it's like spirit or will or whatever and you're trying to intimidate your opponent or something, but when a match begins I've noticed both challengers typically give a kiai. Or when they're standing there, kiai. Is that really necessary? If you yell too much it seems like you'd be wasting energy, no?


I like the analogy that "kiai" is like "revving your engines".

I noticed a thread about like...putting kiai in your left lung? I'm not sure I can even tell one lung from the other.

If you are thinking of the thread that I'm thinking of, it's about putting your ki in your left "leg" :rolleyes:

It's probably a good idea to distinguish between ki, kiai, ki-gurai, and kime.

In my opinion, yelling more wont win you the match.

Aye, there's the rub. Kiai is not just yelling.

[meow]

I am a beginner and in the first classes had some problems doing loud kiai. After some classes I got used to it and it wasn´t that much of a problem anymore. Especially kiai when hitting.

But I always found it a bit strange to do a loud kiai before you strike. Last class our teacher made us do very much and very loud kiai before attacking and I was surprised that it really helped to build self-confidence and kinda psyche you up. I felt much more alerted and concentrated when doing kiai BEFORE striking. I also feel that good kiai will make you more serious in your practice.

After thiss class I was surprised that I could do kiai that loud without any problems.

[moetl]

hi,
i'm also a beginner. during jigeiko, when my opponent kiais i sorta feel the urge to respond. it is like s/he would get the upper hand when i don't respond - it's like an unexpressed threat/tenseness in the air that is dispelled when i kiai back. or something like that ^^

[Fenix]

If you yell too much it seems like you'd be wasting energy, no?
One of my sensei's said that when you get really tired thats when you rely more on your kiai. A loud/strong kiai will keep you going, as long as you concentrate on it coming from your gut.

[hamish]

How many matches have you been in/been to watch?

The interplay of energy between the competitors is a very important part of who wins or loses, especially with evenly matched kendoka, and particularly in team matches. Kiai plays a very important part in this.

If you're a subscriber to the mag and have been following Steven Harwood's series on breathing, you'll be aware of the physiological changes brought about by correct kiai, and also by different kinds of kiai.

As people have said above, kiai isn't just yelling.

Hamish

[Machismo111]

If you are thinking of the thread that I'm thinking of, it's about putting your ki in your left "leg"

O_O Omg, lol. Im sorry I cant read any more...If that is the case...I uh...well, im embarassed =). If Kiai isn't just yelling then it's yelling+an expression of spirit. And if yelling is the irrellivant part than Ki and Kiai isn't much different. Kiai just kinda...comes out.

I've been to a few tourneys and we do bunches of keiko stuff. Not that I'm an expert on kendo cus obviously Im alone on this...but in my 7 months (I know, I know! Im such a newbie =D) I've never experienced once a benefit of kiai. Perhaps I've simply never actually "kiaied" correctly.

Please, please, please forgive me if this is rude, Im not trying! But I'm not a very spiritual person and I honestly don't believe that contracting your gut so your spirit flows out of your mouth could be that essential in a match. However I may be more inclined to believe it to be a tool of intimidation or a psychological thing.

But if you don't kiai in a match...what happens? Lol, do the judges kinda like give you a penalty or something? Or is it just that much quieter?

[Fenix]

But if you don't kiai in a match...what happens? Lol, do the judges kinda like give you a penalty or something? Or is it just that much quieter?
I think in order to score a point, the judges are looking for good form, a good hit, plus a loud kiai. Kiai also brings attention to yourself...if you and your opponent strike at the same time, the one with the louder kiai will get noticed more....even if the hit wasn't that great, a loud kiai can still get you the point.

[DCPan]

And if yelling is the irrellivant part than Ki and Kiai isn't much different. Kiai just kinda...comes out.


"Not just" does not equal "irrelevant".

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3177

I honestly don't believe that contracting your gut so your spirit flows out of your mouth could be that essential in a match.

Well, I don't care for the "mystic dribble" in teaching kendo. However, some things has to be experienced and cannot be explained by mouth, which is why you are probably given some explanations you find unfathomable.

There's many discussion on the psychological, neurological, and physical effects of kiai.

Like Hamish said, if you are truly interested, subscribe to kendo-world mag for borrow a copy from someone and read that article on breathing.

:rolleyes:

[taganahan]

can someone scan that artcle?

~taganahan

[Yann]

can someone scan that artcle?

~taganahanlol ... Doesn't sound fair for Kendo World Magazine...
I mean if we start scanning their articles, KW will die, you got me.

[Andoru]

can someone scan that artcle?

~taganahan
Subscribe and support the KW cause! :D

[taganahan]

haha....i'm broke.

~taganahan

[Marquis]

kiai is used to control breathing and in a keiko it's kind of a powering up for me... just getting ready both mental and physical

For the moment I can't use full kiai... my tonsils were removed a few months ago... I hope it will come back :paranoid:

[Stimpson J. Cat]

I noticed a thread about like...putting kiai in your left lung? I'm not sure I can even tell one lung from the other.
I used to know a guy who claimed he could breathe primarily into and out of whichever lung he chose, he could take a puff off of a cigarette, then blow out clear air, then take a breathe of clear air and blow out smoke, so he was doing something. Maybe moving one side of his diaphram more than the other? He had some experience in martial arts, but he never mentioned the "one-lung" thing in connection with kiai that I know of. I believe that as far as he was concerned it was just a party trick.

Seems likely Machismo-san was thinking of something else anyway, but if that guy could smoke/breathe/blow with one lung or the other, I imagine he could kiai with one if he wanted to.

[Aiko]

I'll just admit my first thought. Kiai is just fun! I mean, hell, you're waving a pointy stick at them, AND you get to yell at them. :wink: Whats better than that? :smiley: Also, it helps your breathing(I think) and it helps ease your nerves.(Actually, the first time I got to practice about being in a match, it caught me off my guard...I'd been in Omaha, NE for 3 weeks proir, never practicing once. Much to say, I was almost hyperventalating, and tied my men on wrong :ko: )