Longest ever sword

[Kenshin Axel]

Hey everybody,

I was wondering, does anybody have any proof of the longest ever Japanese sword?
I remember reading this samurai had an enourmous sword, like nearly 2 metres.
Can anybody help me?

[don quixote]

Freud probably could... 'Sometimes a sword is just a sword'... :wink:

[Kenshin Axel]

??????
Is Freud a person on Kendo-world forums?
??????
"sometimes a sword is just a sword" ???? I don't get it.:confused2

[Yann]

He was joking, like "we don't care about who has the longest sword"...
Anyway, I have the biggest, discussion closed. ;)

PS: Freud is a psychanalist who analyses dreams and other things like that.

[Mr.Tvola]

??????
Is Freud a person on Kendo-world forums?
??????
"sometimes a sword is just a sword" ???? I don't get it.:confused2

LOL :smiley:

[don quixote]

[QUOTE=Kenshin Axel]
I remember reading this samurai had an enourmous sword, like nearly 2 metres.
QUOTE]

Seriously though, I seriously doubt that... I personally have an enormous sword as well, but it is not even 'nearly' two metres long! :wink:

[D'Artagnan]

It is not the length of your sword that is important, as long as you have a good SOLID kamae. :wink:

[streetcleaner]

size doesn't matter

[Swissv2]

but whoever has that longest sword will either be a big giant or he can never lift up the sword successfully :D

[nalogg]

Well the "Daitou" or "nodachi" (sometimes called Daikatana) pre-dates the present-day katana... and it was bigger.
Daitou were curved because they were used like big two-handed axes from horseback, meant to cleave through footmen as you galloped past. The curve allowed for a greater cutting force. Apparently they were too big to wear on your side and generally were slung across your back. And apparently they broke pretty often, because the tempering process hadn't produced strong enough alloy yet.

So the Katana was modelled after the daitou and meant for footsoldiers AND horsemen alike, but was forged in the new (now traditional) way to be quite resilient.

but for the life of me i can't find measurements of the daitou....

i'm guessing 1.5m... because 2m is a bit silly unless you're Sephiroth

[Cheese_Man]

It doesnt matter its not the size that counts its how you use it!

[mystic_kendoka]

It is not the length of your sword that is important, as long as you have a good SOLID kamae.
It doesnt matter its not the size that counts its how you use it!

these are both stupid, if you have a 2m long katana, it no longer matters how good you are at wielding it, or how good your kamae is.. the fact that you are holding a sword longer than their height, is everything... imagine fighting a baseball bat with a chopstick...

[LNGUYEN]

Then why I keep hearing: "Oh! you're looking so good" and "Look at that sword, it is too long, I don't think I can handle that" :smoker:

[mystic_kendoka]

you just need arms at least a foot wide in diameter... THEN you are ready to do kendo...

[Curtis]

Here you go:


http://japantrip.tripod.com/nodachi/norimitsu.html

[Curtis]

The rest of them:


http://japantrip.tripod.com/nodachi/odachi_gallery.html

[Swissv2]

looks like someone made that to compensate for something? :p ok I joke, I joookeee. :D

[don quixote]

I must admit I hesitated a moment before checking out those links... but I needn't have worried, it seems someone is actually trying to give a serious answer to the poor dude's question... amazing!

btw those swords are seriously long! but then, they are not for use are they? :wink:

[Hyaku]

Well the "Daitou" or "nodachi" (sometimes called Daikatana) pre-dates the present-day katana... and it was bigger.
Daitou were curved because they were used like big two-handed axes from horseback, meant to cleave through footmen as you galloped past. The curve allowed for a greater cutting force. Apparently they were too big to wear on your side and generally were slung across your back. And apparently they broke pretty often, because the tempering process hadn't produced strong enough alloy yet.

So the Katana was modelled after the daitou and meant for footsoldiers AND horsemen alike, but was forged in the new (now traditional) way to be quite resilient.but for the life of me i can't find measurements of the daitou....i'm guessing 1.5m... because 2m is a bit silly unless you're Sephiroth

OMG. Where on earth do you get this info from? Slung across the back, broke pretty often?

Unless its just the kensaki swords "bend" they dont snap. The longer it is the more likely it will bend. So the smith has to play with added weight and width without making it too big to use. If you wore on on the back how could you possible draw it? Can you touch your toes without bending over?

Most of long ones shown are mad for Japanese Shrines. As one of Japan's regalia the longer and bigger it is, the more homage we are paying to the gods. A Yon-shaku can be effectivley drawn form the waist. Mount it as a tachi and we can up the length not being restricted by sayabiki the Obi

Please seperate the fantasy from reality.

[Masahiro]

Please seperate the fantasy from reality.
Oh O,. .. ...what if I can't tell one from the other? hahahhahahahha.

[Hyaku]

Oh O,. .. ...what if I can't tell one from the other? hahahhahahahha.


With all those silly hahaha letters I doubt if you ever will. Try posting in an anime forum.

[Kenshin Axel]

He was joking, like "we don't care about who has the longest sword"...
Anyway, I have the biggest, discussion closed. ;)

PS: Freud is a psychanalist who analyses dreams and other things like that.
Hmmm, I seem to have made a fool of myself.................:tired:

[mystic_kendoka]

i dont think the swords in the pictures from the website are that big, i think its just that the blade is the same size, but the handle is a bit extended...

[Kenshin Axel]

Wouldnt that be a Nagemaki?

I think I read somewhere a Nagemaki has the same blade length as a sword, but a real long handle.

I'm probaly wrong,

[Mr.Tvola]

http://www.hyoho.com/K1.html

http://www.hyoho.com/Compare.jpg

http://www.hyoho.com/Embu2.jpg

[D'Artagnan]

these are both stupid, if you have a 2m long katana, it no longer matters how good you are at wielding it, or how good your kamae is.. the fact that you are holding a sword longer than their height, is everything... imagine fighting a baseball bat with a chopstick...


My god, for 15 you are rather naive

[nalogg]

OMG. Where on earth do you get this info from? Slung across the back, broke pretty often?

Unless its just the kensaki swords "bend" they dont snap. The longer it is the more likely it will bend. So the smith has to play with added weight and width without making it too big to use. If you wore on on the back how could you possible draw it? Can you touch your toes without bending over?

Most of long ones shown are mad for Japanese Shrines. As one of Japan's regalia the longer and bigger it is, the more homage we are paying to the gods. A Yon-shaku can be effectivley drawn form the waist. Mount it as a tachi and we can up the length not being restricted by sayabiki the Obi

Please seperate the fantasy from reality.
Hey man, i'm just working with what i've heard... but you're right about the slung across the back thing... when i heard that i thought to myself, "how would that make it easier to sling a LONGER sword?"

nonsense

but i'm not talking about a long KATANA here, i'm talking about a sword that pre-dates that method of forging.

I'm guessing that it wasnt necessesarily bad craftsmanship that caused the sword to break, even though the forging process wasn't perfected... but rather the length/weight didn't allow for proper strikes, and it broke.

I've heard that even the best katanas will break if you use them and strike with improper form.

that's interesting about longer = more homage to the gods

[D'Artagnan]

swords "bend" they dont snap.


That is not true.

I have seen several good quality swords snap, when used in combat. It is dependant on the steel itself. Some steel bends, before it snaps (often resulting in damage to the fittings). Other steel, just breaks clean (this is not pretty when half a sword is now travelling very quickly, in a random direction). This can be caused by several factors, uncontrollable flaws in the steel, repetetive damage to the blade's edge (especially common amongst sharper swords) etc. I have seen and experienced both of these situations, and can assure you that swords both bend AND snap)

Now, yes a very well forged japanese blade has much less chance of either of these outcomes, however, I do not believe that every japanese blade was a masamune masterpiece.

[Nanbanjin]

I know little about swords, but I have lost count of the number of times I have been told that a sword will break if you turn it around and hit with the back edge. This is called "Mine-uchi".
I have been told that this happens because the cutting edge is hardened and the back is flexible. Like bending an orange string backwards, for want of a better analogy. This is a source of criticism of jidai-geki, because in jidai-geki the back of the blade is apparently often used.

[D'Artagnan]

Like bending an orange string backwards

Whats an orange string? is it like a red string?
:D

[Nanbanjin]

Whats an orange string? is it like a red string?
:D
I have been hitting this forum too hard. I'm getting my threads mixed up. I meant orange skin of course.

[D'Artagnan]

I have been hitting this forum too hard. I'm getting my threads mixed up. I meant orange skin of course.

Aw, i was hoping for something i could wrap round my shinai to ward off ghosts

[Nanbanjin]

Aw, i was hoping for something i could wrap round my shinai to ward off ghosts
Try rubbing it with garlic oil.

[psywarblade]

as for the pictures of the blades I could see the advantage in a one on one confrontation. It almost borders a pole-arm.

I have to admit I like the sleek line of it but the functionality in a war situation is ron-existant. Give me two short swords and I will take on whoever is holding that big mother.

[mystic_kendoka]

if it was a war, you could cut 2 or 3 men with it in one blow, but then as ready yourself for the next attack, someone would kill you..

[psywarblade]

exactly my point. Your only choice would be to use continuous whirlling attacks never stopping. Sooner or later you would get dizzy and fall over.

[Hyaku]

That is not true.

I have seen several good quality swords snap, when used in combat.

Where were you, Sekigahara?

[Hyaku]

I know little about swords, but I have lost count of the number of times I have been told that a sword will break if you turn it around and hit with the back edge. This is called "Mine-uchi".
I have been told that this happens because the cutting edge is hardened and the back is flexible. Like bending an orange string backwards, for want of a better analogy. This is a source of criticism of jidai-geki, because in jidai-geki the back of the blade is apparently often used.

Yes this is true. If you strike it hard on an inanimate hard object such as the anvil it was made on. But a quick bit of surfing will show you that the blades have soft core that tapers off towards the kensaki.

You will find lots of threads on which part of the blade is used to block/parry with. However whatever part you use there is a certain amount of deflection. I think you mean Kobudo? A Jidai-geki is a period drama production.

But I find the whole subject is beside the point when most of us know that a good cut is answered with even better one, not a parry. But if it saves a life and ruins a blade it would be favorable.

[D'Artagnan]

Where were you, Sekigahara?

Something like that.

However, your statement did not specifically refer to Japanese swords, not that it makes a great deal of difference.

[Nanbanjin]

I think you mean Kobudo? A Jidai-geki is a period drama production.


No, I mean Jidai-geki.

[nalogg]

http://www.touristphoto.no/images/rogal/hafrsfj_mon_hf.jpg
I believe this answers your question...

this is a monument in norway translated as "sword in mountain"

[KhawMengLee]

http://japantrip.tripod.com/nodachi/norimitsu.html

Here's one from a while back.

[mystic_kendoka]

touche.....

[nalogg]

http://japantrip.tripod.com/nodachi/norimitsu.html

Here's one from a while back.
Mine's bigger!

[mystic_kendoka]

Mine's bigger!

yes your's is bigger but its off topic

I was wondering, does anybody have any proof of the longest ever Japanese sword?

Khaw wins

[psywarblade]

Mine's bigger!
you know how many use that line ..... and very few of them can back it up. Wait we arent talking about swords here are we .....

[KhawMengLee]

Mine's bigger!

ah...but can you wield it? with a schwartz that big can you control its awesome powers!!!??!?!?!?!!!!

[Sephiroth]

Please note my sword is 68" long and it's name is Masamune. Can you withstand the 9999 damage it delivers, every time?

[Dr. Hellsing]

apparently cloud can

[Nanikure]

apparently cloud can

Rofl. Awesome.

[ne0r]

Errm... about the thing with wearing it on the back.

I actually read in a history book/wikipedia (can't remember wich of these it was) that nodachi/odachi were worn on the back.

[ScottUK]

Errm... about the thing with wearing it on the back.

I actually read in a history book/wikipedia (can't remember wich of these it was) that nodachi/odachi were worn on the back.Wiki should be trusted as much as barbed wire should be eaten.

Slightly off-topic:

How many practitioners of nodachi/choken do we have on this thread? Ah, just the one then... never mind, keep arguing amongst yourselves.

[KhawMengLee]

Wiki should be trusted as much as barbed wire should be eaten.

Slightly off-topic:

How many practitioners of nodachi/choken do we have on this thread? Ah, just the one then... never mind, keep arguing amongst yourselves.

Doesn't Hyaku Sensei practice that as well as Nito ryu?

[ScottUK]

You got it and win the prize... :)

Maybe everyone else will be a little more respectful and not fill the forum with assumptions and theories.

(oh, and it is Niten Ichi Ryu.. :D)

[KhawMengLee]

(oh, and it is Niten Ichi Ryu.. :D)

I know darlin' I just had to say the bits that would annoy you and him both...hahahahaa

Maaaaan...this thread was so old...and dead too! Necromancers are about!

[ScottUK]

This is why I hate you... :D

[KhawMengLee]

This is why I hate you... :D

awww...did woogims get a little boo boo on his schnoo schnoo?


Incidentally, I picked up a nito kendo bokuto when i was in tokyo...its pretty sweet. Thinner and very much lighter...and fits perfectly in the side of my car seat.

[ScottUK]

...and fits perfectly in the side of my car seat.My version (http://hand-crafted.com/CU/CU_prod706.jpg)

[KhawMengLee]

My version (http://hand-crafted.com/CU/CU_prod706.jpg)


Hahahaha! OMG! I remember my dad bringing that home when I used to live in London! I was like WTF?!?

I still got it in my appartment in Oz...

I prefer the one's without the spring loaded mechanism and crossguards tho' easier to carry and conceal...

A mate of mine in Melbourne used that with quite devastating results. We were sitting at a tram stop and this car drove by with these dicks who shouted "gooks!" To which me mate got up and threw his unopened can of coke into the back of the car(great shot). The guys drove further down the road, parked and got out and started to run over. Cool as a cucumber, he pulled the baton out, flicked it open and then just pummelled the first to guys with it...after which the rest of us(and him), who kinda just stood there in shock, had to leg it coz the cops came...

effective weapon tho'

[beinsteiner]

Speaking of swords:



Yüeh Kien, or 'Delight in the Sword-fight.'

Formerly, king Wan of Kâo delighted in the sword-fight. More than three thousand men, masters of the weapon, appeared as his guests, lining the way on either side of his gate, and fighting together before him day and night. Over a hundred of them would die or be (severely) wounded in the course of a year, but he was never weary of looking on (at their engagements), so fond was he of them. The thing continued for three years, when the kingdom began to decay, and other states to plan measures against it.

The crown-prince Khwei was distressed, and laid the case before his attendants, saying, 'If any one can persuade the king, and put an end to these swordsmen, I will give him a thousand ounces of silver.' His attendants said, '(Only) Kwang-tsze is able to do this.' Thereupon the prince sent men with a thousand ounces of silver to offer to Kwang-tsze, who, however, would not accept them, but went with the messengers. When he saw the prince, he said, '0 prince, what have you to say to Kâu, and why would you give me the silver?' The prince replied, 'I have heard that you, master, are sagacious and sage. I sent you respectfully the thousand ounces of silver, as a prelude to the silks and other gifts. But as you decline to receive them, how dare I now tell you (what I wished from you)?' Kwang-tsze rejoined, 'I have heard, 0 prince, that what you wanted me for was to wean the king from what is his delight. Suppose that in trying to persuade his Majesty I should offend him, and not fulfil your expectation, I shall be punished with death; and could I then enjoy this silver? Or suppose that I shall succeed in persuading his Majesty, and accomplish what you desire, what is there in the kingdom of Kâo that I might ask for which I would not get?'

The crown-prince said, 'Yes; but my (father), the king, will see none but swordsmen.' Kwang-tsze replied, 'I know; but I am expert in the use of the sword.' 'That is well,' observed the prince; 'but the swordsmen whom his Majesty sees all have their hair in a tangle, with whiskers projecting out. They wear slouching caps with coarse and unornamented tassels, and their coats are cut short behind. They have staring eyes, and talk about the hazards of their game. The king is delighted with all this; but now you are sure to present yourself to him in your scholar's dress, and this will stand greatly in the way of your success.'

Kwang-tsze said, 'I will then, with your leave, get me a swordsman's dress.' This was ready in three days, and when he appeared in it before the prince, the latter went with him to introduce him to the king, who then drew his sword from its scabbard and waited for him. When Kwang-tsze entered the door of the hall, he did not hurry forward, nor, when he saw the king, did he bow. The king asked him, 'What do you want to teach me, Sir, that you have got the prince to mention you beforehand?' The reply was, 'I have heard that your Majesty is fond of the sword-fight, and therefore I have sought an interview with you on the ground of (my skill in the use of) the sword.' 'What can you do with your sword against an opponent?' 'Let me meet with an opponent every ten paces, my sword would deal with him, so that I should not be stopped in a march of a thousand lî.' The king was delighted with him, and said, 'You have not your match in the kingdom.' Kwang-tsze replied, 'A good swordsman first makes a feint (against his opponent), then seems to give him an advantage, and finally gives his thrust, reaching him before he can return the blow. I should like to have an opportunity to show you my skill.' The king said, 'Stop (for a little), Master. Go to your lodging, and wait for my orders. I will make arrangements for the play, and then call you.'

The king accordingly made trial of his swordsmen for seven days, till more than sixty of them were killed, or (severely) wounded. He then selected five or six men, and made them bring their swords and take their places beneath the hall, after which he called Kwang-tsze, and said to him, 'To-day I am going to make (you and) these men show what you can do with your swords.' 'I have long been looking for the opportunity,' replied Kwang-tsze. The king then asked him what would be the length of the sword which he would use; and he said, 'Any length will suit me, but I have three swords, any one of which I will use, as may please your Majesty. Let me first tell you of them, and then go to the arena.' 'I should like to hear about the three swords,' said the king; and Kwang-tsze went on, 'There is the sword of the Son of Heaven; the sword of a feudal prince; and the sword of a common man.'

'What about the sword of the Son of Heaven?'

'This sword has Yen-khî and Shih-khang for its point; Khî and (Mount) Tâi for its edge; Tsin and Wei for its back; Kâu and Sung for its hilt; Han and Wei for its sheath. It is embraced by the wild tribes all around; it is wrapped up in the four seasons; it is bound round by the Sea of Po; and its girdle is the enduring hills. It is regulated by the five elements; its wielding is by means of Punish ments and Kindness; its unsheathing is like that of the Yin and Yang; it is held fast in the spring and summer; it is put in action in the autumn and winter. When it is thrust forward, there is nothing in front of it; when lifted up, there is nothing above it; when laid down, there is nothing below it; when wheeled round, there is nothing left on any side of it; above, it cleaves the floating clouds; and below, it penetrates to every division of the earth. Let this sword be once used, and the princes are all reformed, and the whole kingdom submits. This is the sword of the Son of Heaven.'

King Wan looked lost in amazement, and said again, 'And what about the sword of a feudal lord?' (Kwang-tsze) replied, 'This sword has wise and brave officers for its point; pure and disinterested officers for its edge; able and honourable officers for its back; loyal and sage officers for its hilt; valiant and eminent officers for its sheath. When this sword is thrust directly forward, as in the former case, there is nothing in front of it; when directed upwards, there is nothing above it; when laid down, there is nothing below it; when wheeled round, there is nothing on any side of it. Above, its law is taken from the round heaven, and is in accordance with the three luminaries; below, its law is taken from the square earth, and is in accordance with the four seasons; between, it is in harmony with the minds of the people, and in all the parts of the state there is peace. Let this sword be once used, and you seem to hear the crash of the thunder-peal. Within the four borders there are none who do not respectfully submit, and obey the orders of the ruler. This is the sword of the feudal lord.'

'And what about the sword of the common man?' asked the king (once more). (Kwang-tsze) replied, 'The sword of the common man (is wielded by) those who have their hair in a tangle, with whiskers projecting out; who wear slouching caps with coarse and unornamented tassels, and have their coats cut short behind; who have staring eyes, and talk (only) about the hazards (of their game). They hit at one another before you. Above, the sword slashes through the neck; and below, it scoops out the liver and lungs. This is the sword of the common man. (The users of it) are not different from fighting cocks; any morning their lives are brought to an end; they are of no use in the affairs of the state. Your Majesty occupies the seat of the Son of Heaven, and that you should be so fond of the swordsmanship of such common men, is unworthy, as I venture to think, of your Majesty.'

(Chuang Tzu)

[Saito]

If anyone cares the longest japanese sword made was around 12 or 15 feet long. It was never used in battle.

[Boon]

I care what the longest sword is

[Wildroses]

I don't know if this will help but from the research I have done the long swords, often translated as no-dachi or as simply a long odachi were indeed worn on their backs but only during times of peace where drawing the sword was unnecessary. When used in combat they were used like a normal katana but were particularly difficult to wield because of their immense weight and size.

[MSPaintClock]

I don't know if this will help but from the research I have done the long swords, often translated as no-dachi or as simply a long odachi were indeed worn on their backs but only during times of peace where drawing the sword was unnecessary. When used in combat they were used like a normal katana but were particularly difficult to wield because of their immense weight and size.


Sources please?

[yoda-waza]

If no-dachi were ever used in battle perhaps their function was to cut down the mounts of charging horsemen and the heads of thrusting pikes? That's how the medieval German Landsknecht mercenaries known as Doppelsöldner (double soldier) wielded their 2-meter long zweihänder (two-hander).

Even if the largest no-dachi never saw battle, its conjectural usage on the battlefield is immortalized in the old jidai-geiki film "Fuurin Kazan" (http://www.animeigo.com/Samurai/SBANNERS.t). Towards the last quarter of the film, during a long climactic battle scene, a three-man team wielding a huge no-dachi cuts down a dozen charging ashigaru - a memorable, if unlikely, action sequence.

[Mokuso]

hmm the longest sowrd in history...
Its got to be the nodachi or the one in my pants.

[fifthchamber]

I was recently able to visit Okayama prefecture and in the museum there saw several long bladed swords of over 10 feet in length..None of the swords were designed to be used in battle and were and always had been designated as 奉納刀 or Hounoutou, swords given to a shrine or temple as an offering..They were incredibly beautiful blades but were never designed for practical use on a field or war..If someone is attacking you with polearms, the best bet is not to have a long sword but to have a longer polearm or a projectile weapon....There is considerable evidence of the Japanese use of polearms and significantly less evidence of the use of swords in battle..It was of course used but only as a defense when you had nothing else left to fight with in my opinion...
The idea of a long sword carried on the back and swung into action against spear carrying infantry is not one that would win any prizes in the brains department..
Regards..

[ScottUK]

...or the one in my pants.Yeah yeah, aikuchi boy... :D

[icy_flame]

This thread wins the most suggestive inuenda.

[EcoRI]

What about Tanaka Fumons Koden Enshin Ryu?
I admit that some say his Kobudo claims are a little suspect but he seems to teach nodachi, or at least his student Serge Mol had some pictures of Kata using nodachi in his book "Classical fighting arts of Japan".

Any views on this?

Thanks

[ScottUK]

Any views on this?Hehe lots, but not allowed on KW due to profanity rules... :D

[yoda-waza]

What about Tanaka Fumons Koden Enshin Ryu?
I admit that some say his Kobudo claims are a little suspect but he seems to teach nodachi, or at least his student Serge Mol had some pictures of Kata using nodachi in his book "Classical fighting arts of Japan".

Any views on this?

I've never seen this book but got the distinct impression it really is more about the history and background related to jujutsu, not a lot on other "classical fighting arts". How does a nodachi fit in?

[SmellsLikeBogu]

everyone knows its not the size that counts, its who you stab with it! :p

[fifthchamber]

I've never seen this book but got the distinct impression it really is more about the history and background related to jujutsu, not a lot on other "classical fighting arts". How does a nodachi fit in?

A lot of the classical Jujutsu Ryuha focused just as strongly on the sword as well, whether it was a nodachi or a yoroi doshi. Even the schools that are not considered "sogo" have the use of the sword in at least some of their curricula due to the fact that it was the one weapon you could be relatively sure of facing.
All that said, I hated the Fumon book, and Serge Mol's has little to promote it...Although it is a good start.
Regards.