Sensei vs Champion, Status vs Achievement: which are you?

[ben]

This is primarily for the senior members of the board, but of course all opinions/rejoinders are welcome.

My thesis is this:

High-achievers in kendo seem to seek either a) status/position (running their own dojo, reaching high grades, becoming president of their federation), or b) success/achievement (club/regional/national/world champion). Significantly, when someone choses one, they also tend to shirk the other.

Of course most of us muddle around in the middle, but I would argue there is a broad (and largely unconscious?) tendency to go in one direction or the other that exists in almost all of us. You can even sense it the posting styles of people on this forum.

What do you think?

On a relatd note I read an interesting thing posted by I think it was Kurukuru, one of the SoCal guys anyway, who said that he can sense at the beginning of a jigeiko exactly what the unspoken "rules" are going to be in that encounter, and that he adjusts his kendo accordingly. I thought it was a profound observation, which might not be unconnected to what I'm trying to describe.

b

[Odachi]

Gee...and all I wanted was to have fun.

[ben]

Gee...and all I wanted was to have fun.

OK. Not the kind of scintillating input I was hoping for... but point taken. :)

b

[Swissv2]

Low and Medium level Kendoist also strive to attain high grades. It is not limited to higher levels of Kendoists. You are tapping into the phychological aspects of a person, which you will have a hard time understanding. This is because you first have to understand where the individuals came from, parts of their life that lead them to make such decisions, how they see themselves presently, and what their goals in the future are.

You cannot possibly attain this knowledge by taking a step back and looking at the broad picture. But I can help you with some thoughts about your hypothesis.

I dont believe it is a shirk of a particular path, it is more focus based. If you are a high ranking individual, the focus gets harder, thus takes more time. You could compare to the proverb about mountain climbing;

"As I started out climbing the mountain, it was very easy in the beginning. Relatively flat land, easy walking, and much enjoyment. When I got to the middle of the mountain, it became tougher. My breath was more rapid, the air thinner, not quite so easy as the beginning. When I got very high, each step to the top became impossibly hard. Not only was the mountain steep at this point, but I had hardly any energy, barely enough air, and I move so slow I do not think I will make it to the top"

If one is to excel at such a path they choose, and make the decision to achieve their goals, they must become focused. Meaning simply, you cannot become a master at all things. Now if you have all the time and money in the world to spend I am sure you can definately become excellent at many things.

I know I have written a lot, so I will sum it up in a few last words.

Whatever one wishes to do and accomplish, concentration and focus is required to achieve their goal. Time and Money are the 2 big things that prevent many people from achieving that goal, let alone many goals. One you have both time and money, it is the UNIQUE aspects of each individual that determines their drive, sense of accomplishment, and setting future goals.

[Swissv2]

side note: A sensei can definately be a former champion :)

[emitbrownne]

What do you think?


I am one of the most laid back Kendoka I know... gradings and conquest in Shai hold little or no interest for me.
However I would like one day to have a little class of my own.. I have always enjoyed teaching, and to see someone you have taught go on and develop is a great feeling.

However I know for a fact that if I did grade properly..(actually go for it instead of being a lazy Ikkyu) .. that would be all all I would do. I would chase grades.

Being king of the hill in competitions does nothing for me... Being king of the dojo long term...hmm maybe

[moocow65]

Forget rank or running a dojo, I'm aiming to be world champion. 3-dan for life! Which means I'll never be regarded as a Sensei in the US, which means I won't have the responsibilities of a sensei, which means I can focus on improving my skills rather than improving others. Hey, the way I look at it, the bigger the beat-down I give you during keiko, the better you become. So, I don't have to teach anything to improve the ones below me.
As far as the SoCal post by one of us, to me, it applies to in a shiai as well. If I go against some fool I don't like, he better expect me to rough him up, but if it's some guy I respect and if it's a mutual feeling, we'll compete honorably i.e. no hard tai-atari or excessive pushing or funky waza.

[Hongsermeier]

As far as the SoCal post by one of us, to me, it applies to in a shiai as well. If I go against some fool I don't like, he better expect me to rough him up, but if it's some guy I respect and if it's a mutual feeling, we'll compete honorably i.e. no hard tai-atari or excessive pushing or funky waza.

I must agree with moocow on this. Most of the people I fight in shiai give and recieve respect. There are just a few that need to get "man handled". Don't come at me all sidways with some wierd waza unless you want to end up on your a**. :cross_eye:

[hyuna]

My thesis is this:

High-achievers in kendo seem to seek either a) status/position (running their own dojo, reaching high grades, becoming president of their federation), or b) success/achievement (club/regional/national/world champion). Significantly, when someone choses one, they also tend to shirk the other.

Of course most of us muddle around in the middle, but I would argue there is a broad (and largely unconscious?) tendency to go in one direction or the other that exists in almost all of us.

I think this is circular, most obviously in (b) -- "high-achievers seek success/achievement" but it is also visible in (a). Basically, of course "high-achievers" seek "achievement" or else they wouldn't fall under your definition of "high-achievers."

Furthermore, people try to do what is "good" and so to the degree that they believe that it is "good" to have high status, power, authority, recognition, etc, people will try to achieve those things. Western culture is all about those things, so most Westerners certainly will aim to accomplish them. So it is more-or-less unavoidable that you will see people move in such a direction.

So, I guess I agree with you, all in all. I just would use a little different phrasing. People try to be successful, and for most people that means seeking high status and recognition.

I, for one, am not comfortable with such a definition of success and I look to kendo to help me replace it with one that is more to my liking. It is difficult, however, because it may well be practically impossible to divorce these three things: improvement from advancement in rank from community status.

I also agree with what you said about Mr Kurukuru. I think it is indeed a profound statement.

[Old Warrior]

Everyone has a right to set his/her goals with respect to kendo. I note the abundance of hormones that seem to drive some of the posters (and I am somewhat jealous), but I attribute that mostly to their youth and optimism. I know a number of former world class athletes and for the most part their enormous sacrifice was met with minimal success (on the world front) and used up a significant portion of their youth and life. Moreover, most of them now have long term health issues that will negatively impact their lives forever. I feel the saddest for those who gave up the opportunity to have children, a supportative spouse and a career that basically, first began, after they quit training.

I also note those who have the need for "respect" that they believe comes from attainment of rank. Kendo may make up a part of the fabric of your person, but I don't know that it should hold a significant place in ones own assessment of personal worth. I truly enjoy the pursuit of the art, but I could never allow myself to believe that I am a better person, relative to someone else, because of my efforts to improve my mastery of the art. To be perfectly candid, I enjoyed the classes just as much, when I was at the end of line, than when I am expected to lead the opening/closing ceremonies and pass on my limited knowledge to others.

My own personal philosophy is that life requires a balance to be satisfying. It requires a mix of relatively good health, family love/support, career satisfaction, financial security etc. If kendo rises in importance to the level of interfering with any of the above, I would be concerned. Things I do for pleasure are important (and not to be diminished), but priorities in life need to be examined and adjusted on a regular basis. I see kendo as a significant tool in helping me acheive the aforementioned, not as a goal in and of itself. It is something private, for me to do and savor, for myself.

[Masahiro]

I am not sure what you are asking Ben, so could you please elaborate even more. As I think it is a good idea for the starter of a thread to "reinforce" the central thesis along the discussion. But I ask you this, is it possible that for individuals such as Miyazaki Masahiro and many other before him who have achieved both b)success/achievement and a)status/position to have started out (not so much from the beginning of their kendo career since childhood) with their eyes set on both goals? I look forward to your answer, as well as sharing my thoughts farthermore.

[itachi]

Well I don't think those are the two cases... my senseis have both a and b.

[nodachi]

I would find the path of the sensei more meaningful than the path of a world champion. Granted a world championship or some big title is quite an accomplishment, but it is more temporary than a lifelong goal of sharing kendo with others.

Of course, it is very possible to do both, but isn't part of making yourself a better person through kendo also helping others to do the same, hence teaching would be the higher more lifelong goal, in my opinion.

Cheesey quote but, "your candle burns brighter when it lights another"

[Kote-Men]

When i started Kendo, i only wanted bogu. bogu, bogu, bogu that was all i could think about. I changed a LOT. I've realized that bogu is the first step....in an infinite amount of steps. Well, i havent changed in Iaido yet, all i want is a shinken :devious: I believe rank is not something that you should continously think about....Rank is just stating how many of the infinite steps you have taken.

[d3rdson]

Is it possible to partake in kendo training just in these following activities: cleaning up dojo everytime, bone breaking breath taking jikeiko , grading, ... repeated many times ... go to tournament (whenever possible) ...

... enter the senior ranks ...

... cleaning up dojo everytime, bone breaking breath taking jikeiko , grading ... etc ...

... and then refuse the position to take care of dojo(s) as sensei, when asked?

Not wanting to come up as selfish sob, but outside kendo, my life needs SERIOUS immediate fix up in terms of financial and everything; sometimes I would have to travel for a period of time which makes it impossible to stay and always be available for teaching...

I want to give something back, but then again I can't tell them my own problem(s); this is something I have to take care personally.

I hate moral dillema choice like this :(

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks