Which hand to use?

[SaitoHajime]

I notice that most every teaching or demo that I see uses the right hand as the primary. I however am left handed. Can anyone tell me if it's possible to use my left hand and also if it might create any apparent weaknesses in my form?

[Swissv2]

no, just do as a left handed will do. Might be tough for your sensei to show you, but you can certainly "mirror" technique.

[Atama]

I notice that most every teaching or demo that I see uses the right hand as the primary. I however am left handed. Can anyone tell me if it's possible to use my left hand and also if it might create any apparent weaknesses in my form?


There is no left or right hand in kendo as such, the left hand is always at the butt of the shinai and the right hand at the tsuba. The left hand/arm is the one that actually does all the work the hand is there to stablise and guide (or at least thats how I was taught it) so being left handed should actually give you an advantage in the beginning stages.

If in doubt always ask your sensei. :wink:

Lisa

[bullet08]

about.. 20 yrs ago when i was teaching bagpipes to beginners.. one of the guy just could not get the concept of upper hand/bottom hand thing.. found out he was left handed. once we switched the hands ass backward, he was doing fine. maybe you should request your sensei what might be the proper way for lefty to do.

you should see left handed pipers in parade.. they are really funny bunch..

[SaitoHajime]

There is no left or right hand in kendo as such, the left hand is always at the butt of the shinai and the right hand at the tsuba. The left hand/arm is the one that actually does all the work the hand is there to stablise and guide (or at least thats how I was taught it) so being left handed should actually give you an advantage in the beginning stages.

If in doubt always ask your sensei. :wink:

Lisa
Thank you for the info. This leads to another train of thought. That being that one hand is for power and the other is for guidance. I've never been trained properly in kendo or any other such thing. However if it's a choice between using my dominant hand for power or guidance I think I would rather use it for precission guidance as good technique shouldn't require as much power. Any thoughts ?

[Swissv2]

Since you will be holding the Shinai like a right handed person, eventually you will get used to it.

[Kaoru]

Hi there!

Ahhh... You are trying to teach yourself? My advice? Don't bother. Once you get into a dojo, you will be re-taught everything from scratch. Right now, you aren't even doing Kendo, if I may say. The only thing you are doing to yourself right now, is teaching yourself things that are bad habits and bad technique. This will make it harder for you actually, because in a dojo you will spend lots of time unlearning every single bad habit rather than learning it right the first time around for the first month or two. It is much more fun to learn everything right the first time around. :)

As far as what you say about "good technique" you won't have any yet. You won't ever, until you make your way to a proper dojo.

You must hold the shinai properly, with the right hand near the tsuba, left hand at the bottom of the tsuka(handle). There is no left handed way of holding the shinai. The left hand DOES have the power though. That is an advantage for a left handed person. There are no left handed swordsmen once a person begins a JSA. It really is not about which hand is dominant at all.

So, you don't get any choice at all, which hand is the power behind the cut. I'm not trying to be impolite here... this is just how it is. The left hand IS the one with the power, the right hand guides. You won't really understand this until you have a sensei who can explain and show you. Your sensei, when you get into a dojo, will expect you to hold the shinai properly, with the RH on the top, LH at the bottom, and do proper cutting. You will get used to it, once you get proper instruction in a dojo. Honest. :) Oh, and there is much more to it than just holding a shinai and cutting. Trust me, you will be surprised at the little details there are in making a cut properly.

That being said, there IS Kendo where you are.

Here is the Houston dojo:

Houston Budokan Inc. (http://www.houstonbudo.com/)
4230 Mangum
Houston, TX
M F 7pm-8:30pm Sa 3:30-5pm
Contact: Darrel Craig (houston_budokan@hotmail.com) (713)682-9014

Be sure to call and ask if you can watch a practice first. This is standard etiquette. Please go check out this dojo. You will be happy you did. :)

Hope this helps!

Kaoru

[SaitoHajime]

Hi there!

Ahhh... You are trying to teach yourself? My advice? Don't bother. Once you get into a dojo, you will be re-taught everything from scratch. Right now, you aren't even doing Kendo, if I may say. The only thing you are doing to yourself right now, is teaching yourself things that are bad habits and bad technique. This will make it harder for you actually, because in a dojo you will spend lots of time unlearning every single bad habit rather than learning it right the first time around for the first month or two. It is much more fun to learn everything right the first time around. :)

As far as what you say about "good technique" you won't have any yet. You won't ever, until you make your way to a proper dojo.

You must hold the shinai properly, with the right hand near the tsuba, left hand at the bottom of the tsuka(handle). There is no left handed way of holding the shinai. The left hand DOES have the power though. That is an advantage for a left handed person. There are no left handed swordsmen once a person begins a JSA. It really is not about which hand is dominant at all.

So, you don't get any choice at all, which hand is the power behind the cut. I'm not trying to be impolite here... this is just how it is. The left hand IS the one with the power, the right hand guides. You won't really understand this until you have a sensei who can explain and show you. Your sensei, when you get into a dojo, will expect you to hold the shinai properly, with the RH on the top, LH at the bottom, and do proper cutting. You will get used to it, once you get proper instruction in a dojo. Honest. :) Oh, and there is much more to it than just holding a shinai and cutting. Trust me, you will be surprised at the little details there are in making a cut properly.

That being said, there IS Kendo where you are.

Here is the Houston dojo:

Houston Budokan Inc. (http://www.houstonbudo.com/)
4230 Mangum
Houston, TX
M F 7pm-8:30pm Sa 3:30-5pm
Contact: Darrel Craig (houston_budokan@hotmail.com) (713)682-9014

Be sure to call and ask if you can watch a practice first. This is standard etiquette. Please go check out this dojo. You will be happy you did. :)

Hope this helps!

Kaoru

Interesting

First I'd like to say thanks for your information as it makes a lot of things clear. I was begining to think that I really didn't want to get into kendo but thought that maybe I was just exagerating over nothing. However your information supports my theory that kendo has a structure all it's own that I wouldn't exactly fit into. Then again I like the mentality of the samurai along with the technique. I should probably just learn sword arts and just practive with people who are open to different styles and techniques. I don't think I'd care too much for the structure you're describing that doesn't seem to allow for much improv. I like the thought of growing as a sword arts practitioner through seeing other styles and techniques. Kendo seems to be based on a specific style of attack/deffense ie only using right handed techniques. As in your statement I would also say that I'm not trying to be rude, just stating my view. Some things that you said however didn't make sense to me. Right or Left a hand and arm are the same, however right and left handed people are this way due to a possible dominance in their brain, also you've used that side for the whole of your life so I would figure that it would make an amount of difference in the power you could produce and how familiar you are with that side. Granted anyone can learn to use the other side possibly just as well but wouldn't it be easier to use the side you were used to ? What do you mean there is no left handed way of holding the shinai? Hands and arms are equal in fingers and ability to move so how could one not be able to just reverse one's use of them? There's more I'd like to say on the subject of teaching myself bad techniques as I don't think learning always starts at the teacher student level. I'm not saying I'm that person but I believe that it can be said historicly that some have started out learning from books and refining what they learned through teachings from others. On the other hand this still doesn't negate that what you are saying about kendo having a certain form. This is something I'll really have to speak to the guys at the dojo on. Though I know I don't see myself practicing in an art form that only goes one way, I mean if I do it the same way just like everyone else it really only means that one of us is just faster or has better execution, not that one of us came up with something that would make the other person have to grow to become better. On another note does anyone have a better suggestion for a sword-art that may better suit my wish to develop a technique in a way that is only limited by what I can come up with?

[Swissv2]

just read this

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3485&highlight=left+hand
should give you some ideas or so.

[SaitoHajime]

just read this

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3485&highlight=left+hand
should give you some ideas or so.

Well it's really more of the same. I could conform but where is the fun in that :)

[Kaoru]

Hi there,


First I'd like to say thanks for your information as it makes a lot of things clear.You're welcome. I'm glad it helped some. :)


However your information supports my theory that kendo has a structure all it's own that I wouldn't exactly fit into. Then again I like the mentality of the samurai along with the technique. I should probably just learn sword arts and just practive with people who are open to different styles and techniques.This will never work. No legitimate sensei is going to let you do what you want, unless you go to one of those McDojo karate schools that think they know swordarts, but really are dangerous with a sword.If you just want to goof off and mess around with a sword in a karate dojo where they will give you points for how high you can throw a sword and other crazy "creative" stunts, fine. But, that isn't what swordsmanship is about.

Yes, there are different styles and techniques in real Japanese sword arts OUTSIDE of and NOT including karate "JSA". BUT: ALL these traditional JSA have structure and a set way of doing things, and each style does NOT take from another Ryu(style) and learn it. That is not JSA. You will never get to practice with real practitioners and expect to get any good with this way of thinking.


I don't think I'd care too much for the structure you're describing that doesn't seem to allow for much improv. I like the thought of growing as a sword arts practitioner through seeing other styles and techniques. Then you are not ready for studying a true Japanese sword art, which Kendo is. ALL the sword arts, Iaido and Kenjutsu included, have this set structure. Iaido and Kenjutsu are 400 year old arts. Kendo is some 150 years old. Yes, there is a set way of doing things, and a set way of doing techniques. You can't get away from it. You CAN'T improvise. It is not done. Ever. Unless you are a Karate Samurai wannabe. They don't have much of a clue, I am afraid. And you can't call what they do, JSA even.

This is why you need to get into a dojo. You don't understand yet, that you DO grow in a dojo wth structure. It takes almost a year to just be allowed to spar in Kendo. It is hard work. If you don't want the hard work, you are not ready. There is structure in ANY GOOD reputable JSA dojo.

And yes, all Kenshi are encouraged to visit other Kendo dojos once they get fairly decent technique going. No two sensei are alike, and all teach differently. It is the same stuff, but different, if you know what I mean. You don't understand, because you have never set foot in a dojo, and given a sensei half a chance to teach you anything for a long period of time.

Koryu dojos, those that teach Iaido and Kenjutsu I mean, do not spar, but do encourage dojo visiting I believe. Though, you do not go and learn bits here and there at different dojos of different Ryu. That is not learning JSA when you think you can do that. It takes years to even become halfway good in just one art. You can't just throw stuff together and claim you are learning JSA. You aren't and can't, and that is just the truth.

So, yes you DO grow with good structure. And, watching other arts just broadens your horizons. You grow best in a dojo with a properly qualified sensei, period. There is no other way.


Kendo seems to be based on a specific style of attack/deffense ie only using right handed techniques. They are not right-handed techniques really. They are balanced by BOTH hands together.


Some things that you said however didn't make sense to me. Right or Left a hand and arm are the same, however right and left handed people are this way due to a possible dominance in their brain, also you've used that side for the whole of your life so I would figure that it would make an amount of difference in the power you could produce and how familiar you are with that side.You ned to get away with this "I'm left handed" deal. I don't care if you are. I am left handed as well as right. I was born left handed. But, since I have a vision impairment, that kinda messed things up a little. I use both. I can't decide which is dominant half the time, and really, I don't feel sorry for you, no offense. I hold my shinai the way sensei said, and it worked just fine after practicing diligently. You either deal with it, or don't do JSA.

This will never make any sense to you until you get into a dojo to get a sensei to show you why.

Again, the POWER is in the LEFT HAND. The LH MUST be at the bottom of the shinai, and THIS is where you use that power. The RH is the GUIDE. It makes NO difference which hand is dominant. You just have to do the boring thing and actually *gasp* PRACTICE a lot in between classes. Several weeks of hundereds of slowly practiced suburi taught to you in a dojo will take care of this "problem." :)

I understand this doesn't make sense to you yet, but if you get yourself going and go to a dojo, I promise you, this WILL eventually make sense to you.


Granted anyone can learn to use the other side possibly just as well but wouldn't it be easier to use the side you were used to ? No. It just doesn't work that way.


What do you mean there is no left handed way of holding the shinai? Hands and arms are equal in fingers and ability to move so how could one not be able to just reverse one's use of them? I mean that there are no left-handed swordsmen ever. There never was. You draw with the right hand, and cut using both. You can't reverse anything. No offense, but you are really hung up on your left hand. This is really a simple matter of getting into a dojo and actually practicing hard to get used to it. You are playing mind games with yourself... and it is getting to you. Let it go, and just go to the dojo I gave you, and practice hard. All good things come in time, if you are willing to work hard at them.


There's more I'd like to say on the subject of teaching myself bad techniques as I don't think learning always starts at the teacher student level. I'm not saying I'm that person but I believe that it can be said historicly that some have started out learning from books and refining what they learned through teachings from others. No, not historically. All swordsmen trained in a dojo with a sensei. You can gain a lot of knowledge yes, by reading a book, but you cannot LEARN techniques from a book. They are only two dimensional. And, back in the old days, they had no books for these arts, but scrolls, and only one teacher had the scrolls. The information was transmitted in the dojo, not through a scroll, but by actually teaching students in the dojo. The scroll was kept by the sensei only, and was not for the students. Books are just for use as an aid to proper instruction. Ask any of the prominant authors of those books. Without a sensei to guide you, you will always have bad habits and very wrong technique.


On the other hand this still doesn't negate that what you are saying about kendo having a certain form. This is something I'll really have to speak to the guys at the dojo on. It is always a good idea to go to a sensei with questions. But, please remember to be respectful and listen to what the sensei has to say. He/she will have trained for many years and you have no training to speak of. Be sure to recognise their years of training under qualified teachers. The same goes for talking to the students in the dojo. They are senior to you. Really, it is a good thing to be curious and ask questions, so I encourage that.

On to part two please... :)

[Kaoru]

Part two:


Though I know I don't see myself practicing in an art form that only goes one way, I mean if I do it the same way just like everyone else it really only means that one of us is just faster or has better execution, not that one of us came up with something that would make the other person have to grow to become better. The reason you think this, is because you have never been taught. You don't understand anything yet. Doing a cut the way sensei tells you, and doing what everyone else does, has NOTHING to do with speed or execution. Becoming faster and having better execution comes of practicing hard every day in between practices at the dojo, what the sensei and sempai have told you what you need to work on or corrected, in the dojo each week.

There is so much you don't know about. It does not mean what you say at all. This is where you should not talk until you go train. Being untrained, you don't know what you are saying really. Though, you are trying, but you really can't know anything about the details and have deeper understanding until you train.

Practicing with your sensei or sempai(senior) will always make you grow as a student. You can't grow unless you practice hard, and listen to what the sensei tells you, and what your sempai tell you. If you can't deal with the structure and being corrected for bad technique in a class, and can't be bothered to care, then why bother wanting to train in a JSA? ALL real JSA will be hard work and have structure, and there is NO way around that.

The sensei learns from their students and the sempai learns from the kohai(junior) besides you learning from both, by the way. It is a never ending circle of learning. ALL grow because each works and practices together.

You will never grow if you are a "class" of one, trying to teach yourself. The only thing you will gain is a mess of bad techniques which won't even be considered tecniques by real JSA people. You will just have a million bad habits and no form or anything at all but a mess of "cuts" that aren't really cuts, and awful footwork, among other things. Do you really want that, and to trick yourself into believing this is true JSA? If you want to learn a legitimate art, you have to be willing to work hard to learn it, or don't do it at all.

You don't "come up with something" in the way of a technique to grow. Thart is not how it works. Nor, is it what JSA is.

Growing in Kendo means you not only grow in good technique and form by being corrected by sensei and sempai, you learn to grow as a person. Kendo teaches a person many things. One thing you will learn, is patience. Kendo, when you begin learning to cut properly, will teach you that right away, because if you just swing without thinking, it will just be a sloppy cut with no zanshin.(Another thing you will learn about in class.) There is a lot more... You can't learn any of this alone. You learn this from the others in the dojo. You will learn compassion, and kindness, too. When motodachi(The one in bogu(armor)you will strike as a beginner. You will not be in bogu then.) allows you to strike him/her in practice, he/she is giving you a gift, my sensei says. Motodachi is allowing you to learn a poper Men. Kote or Do cut, even if you happen to miss due to inexperience and hit them on the wrong area, which can hurt them. That's why it is a gift. The compassion is knowing you are striking them, and it might hurt, so you are thankful they let you hit them, and realise that they are being humble to allow it. You in turn, try not to hit so hard that you are clubbing them. Kendo is also about respect. When you bow after working with him/her, you are thanking them for letting you strike them and helping you to learn. You don't just hit them. They will instruct you and guide you. And, when they bow back, they are thanking you too, for trying your best. hehe, Our sensei told us all this at lunch one day, and some of this is my own idea of what he meant, after thinking about what he told us.

Now, for a sensei to grow, this is a higher level than what growing for a beginner or student is. One way a sensei grows is by teaching. He/she learns whst does and does not work, when teaching to get a point across. Teaching is NOT easy. Each student is different, and what will work for one, may not work for another. They still teach the same technique, but maybe present it more visually to one student by showing, and more verbally to another by telling. And even, by taking the student's arm and moving the arm into the correct position, is a way to teach. The sensei is also endlessly learning Kendo on a higher level as well, besides teaching by training in a dojo with sensei higher ranked than themselves when they can. I am sure one of the sensei on this board can explain what I am getting at MUCH better than I can. This is but a vain attempt to explain the other end of learning that happens on a higher level. I am still a beginner myself since October. All of us, whether sensei or student, are endlessly learning and growing because of each other.

So... You have MUCH to learn about what growing means. Heck, I AM in a dojo, and I STILL am growing and don't know all that much. I still have MUCH to learn, myself. Kendo will transfer to your personal life, too. The etiquette you will learn in a dojo is very important as well. You forgot about that, see? Etiquette helps you grow too. You will learn much about what it means to be polite. A simple bow speaks volumes depending on how you do it. This is just one thing out of many. JSA without the proper etiquette is not really JSA at all...



On another note does anyone have a better suggestion for a sword-art that may better suit my wish to develop a technique in a way that is only limited by what I can come up with?
No. You yourself cannot "develope" a technique. You LEARN technique from a sensei and sempai. If you don't want to work at it and actually learn, you may as well forget it. NO legitimate JSA, whether it be Kendo, Iaido or Kenjutsu, is without structure and set ways and proper etiquette.

Otherwise, you will forever be a samurai wannabe, for lack of a better word for it. I hope you will choose to do the hard work and get into a real dojo.
If not, then at least I can say I tried my best to explain what JSA really is.
Please have an open mind and read carefully what I said. Then, go visit the dojo I gave you, and the one Charles-san gave you in your other thread in the Iaido forum. You can't make a decision uinless you are suitably informed, and that means, having visited the dojos FIRST and chosen one to study at for a long period of time. I can guarantee you, that after at least two months. you will never want to go back to teaching yourself, because you will then realise why you can't. It is next to impossible to.

Well, I hope this sheds a bit more light on JSA and what it takes to study it, for you. :)

I apologise for the length of my posts everybody.

Kaoru

[SaitoHajime]

Interesting read. I can only say that some people like being in the matrix and some people want to break away. To tell you the truth neither one is right, they both have reasons. I just want to use my left hand because no one is doing it. Not because I believe it gives me advantage or anything like that. If I'm going to commit my time, money and life to something then I'm going to do it because it's personal to me and I enjoy it. Call me crazy but I'm really just not into being a kendo drone. I don't knock what you are doing but I really can't see myself looking forward to engaging a room full of people who know the same things I do, where is the growth there. How do you grow in a place where everyone is not the same but uses the same techniques. I'd probably be beaten more by the boredom of it all then anything. Still I knew even before you posted that I wouldn't be able to join a kendo dojo. There's just no fun in it for me. Well there would be from the jump but I'd tire of knowing that no matter who I faced he wouldn't be able to try anything new on me because it wouldn't score the point and therefore was of no use to him. You should probably refrain from pointing out anyone elses martial art to be less then yours, that doesn't speak highly of you. I may not think kendo is for me but I will never say it's less then any other martial art if not an amazing one actually. It's just not for me.

[SaitoHajime]

No. You yourself cannot "develope" a technique. You LEARN technique from a sensei and sempai.
There are a few things I'd like to pick out but this one just jumped out at me. I'm curious to know who the sensei learned thier technique from and who that person learned from? In other words unless the technique fairy jumped out and suddenly bopped someone on the head with it's magical sword, anyone can develop a technique which is then refined over the years. Sorry that's about the best way I could say that after listening to some of the things you are coming up with. It sort of seems like you have a somewhat elitest attitude when it comes to all things JSA vs JUSTABOUTANYOTHERTHINGINTHEWORLD. It's that closed minded "it's the way it's done" type attitude that has so many human beings on this earth acting like robots and listening to whatever fool comes up with the next big thing even though it really isn't that great but I guess when you are starving jack in the box must taste like steak. You sure seem to think that kendo and the dojo are just the way to go but have you ever even had a match with someone who fights with escrima sticks or sais or any other weapon? No I dont mean real weapons because each one of those has a practice weapon to be used. I don't want to fight the same way and the same people all the time. I want to opponents with methods I've never heard of or experienced and while some will say I practiced kendo today I want to say I used my shinai left handed style against my friend with his padded boken, which I actually did by the way. Now I may not have technique and yes I was using my left hand but it was fun and I got to know some of the problems of trying to fend off a boken not just another shinai which btw my friend also practices with. That's the kind of fun I enjoy. Even in unarmed combat it's soooo much fun for a kenpo guy to go spar with a tae kwon do guy. My cousin who does grapling loves to visit other types of dojo because that's how he grows as a fighter (well part of it at least). Once again and forever I'll say I'm not bashing you or your chosen art form as I would never want to bash any person or thier art. However I would never agree with anyone who boxes themselves into a belief that this or that is the only way because there is never just one way to do things and the sooner people see that the sooner we as a humans can all move that much farther.

[taganahan]

i think you watch too much of those samurai movies and samurai animes/cartoons. if you know how samurais trained, you should know that all of them weren't taught techniques for a long long.....very long time. they were taught how to control themselves and improve themselves through basics. and after they have been training for a long long.....very long time, their sensei teaches them techiniques. just stick to reality and you'll get better.

~taganahan

[Neil Gendzwill]

Just to address a couple of points - there's no rule against holding the shinai with a reversed grip. You'd need to find a pretty open-minded sensei who'd teach it to you, but you can do it. The reasons why everyone grips the same way are historical and somewhat bound in older prejudices against left-handed people. There are some definite disadvantages to it from a competition point of view, mostly because of what the judges are used to seeing. Most lefties I've talked to haven't ultimately found the grip to be that limiting. The ones I've taught who've asked have shrugged and just carried on with the right-handed grip. In hockey or baseball, preference for a right or left-handed grip isn't 100% tied to handedness either. I believe it can be taught.

Second - while there is a structure to what we learn and a definite rigidity to what is correct and proper technique, within that framework there is a lot of room to work out your own thing. One of the fun things about being a new kendoka is trying out what you think might or might not work. So long as you're not hitting off-target, you can give it a shot, especially when sparring with people your own level. Be prepared for a butt-kicking if you try some silly crap with your sensei though... Among all JSA, kendo is probably the least restrictive and the most based on what actually works for you personally, as tested in the sparring environment.

Third - even having said those two things, I believe you are right - kendo is not for you. Despite all your protestations of being a free spirit, your mind is closed. You'd be one of the many people who aren't sufficiently disciplined to last more than a month or so.

[SaitoHajime]

i think you watch too much of those samurai movies and samurai animes/cartoons. if you know how samurais trained, you should know that all of them weren't taught techniques for a long long.....very long time. they were taught how to control themselves and improve themselves through basics. and after they have been training for a long long.....very long time, their sensei teaches them techiniques. just stick to reality and you'll get better.

~taganahan


Ok so ummm what did anime have to do with anything I or you just said? Where do you think I said in my above post that I didn't want to train for a long long very long time. FYI I look at this as a life long commitment which is why I have a certain way I would prefer to go into it. Also I'm not looking to become a samurai or anything like that. I don't plan on having sword battles in this lifetime at all really. The reality is that I am not the type who wants to be just like everyone else, if I was then I'd just join any dojo usa and be like everyone else. I don't feel there is growth potential in such a limited sport. This is the same reason why I don't play basketball or football. The players change but there is still only one way to score. That's not my style, as I said I want to see new and interesting things, not the same ol same ol. I'm very rooted in reality however I don't let some small part of it dictate what I can and can't do. Next you'll be telling me the world is flat and that I'll surely fall off if I continue too far right? Oh and btw I do watch a lot of anime and samurai movies, do you for once in even a millionth of a second think I'd let hollywood tell me what it's really like? I mean I also race my car in autocross but I don't think the fast and the furiuos is how it really goes down. geeeeez :)

[SaitoHajime]

Just to address a couple of points - there's no rule against holding the shinai with a reversed grip. You'd need to find a pretty open-minded sensei who'd teach it to you, but you can do it. The reasons why everyone grips the same way are historical and somewhat bound in older prejudices against left-handed people. There are some definite disadvantages to it from a competition point of view, mostly because of what the judges are used to seeing. Most lefties I've talked to haven't ultimately found the grip to be that limiting. The ones I've taught who've asked have shrugged and just carried on with the right-handed grip. In hockey or baseball, preference for a right or left-handed grip isn't 100% tied to handedness either. I believe it can be taught.

Second - while there is a structure to what we learn and a definite rigidity to what is correct and proper technique, within that framework there is a lot of room to work out your own thing. One of the fun things about being a new kendoka is trying out what you think might or might not work. So long as you're not hitting off-target, you can give it a shot, especially when sparring with people your own level. Be prepared for a butt-kicking if you try some silly crap with your sensei though... Among all JSA, kendo is probably the least restrictive and the most based on what actually works for you personally, as tested in the sparring environment.

Third - even having said those two things, I believe you are right - kendo is not for you. Despite all your protestations of being a free spirit, your mind is closed. You'd be one of the many people who aren't sufficiently disciplined to last more than a month or so.
Thank for the interesting points of view. Number 3 isn't on the money though. I never really closed my mind off to any concept. Not even that of going with the right hand, however what person choosed what they don't like especially when it's said that that's exactly what it will be. My mind needs freedom to work well the closed system of kendo is a limited freedom that I won't enjoy for long and thus your point about being sufficiently disciplined becomes correct. I can be disciplined but only if it serves my purpose ie work. Though I'd like to hear more info on how you think I'm closed minded :).

[SaitoHajime]

BTW I'd like to add a little more on my drive of the left hand issue

In the old days, in most of the world, left handedness was looked on with deep suspicion, and was usually considered a sign of weakness. This is a prejudice of course, invented by right handed, tall, healthy, WASP males to keep the rest of the world under their domination; nontheless it was the common feeling. Japan was not an exception to this handed bias and as a result, no Samurai would admit to being a leftie. There are no schools that I have ever heard of, that used a left handed grip (right at tsuka gashira, left at tsuba) when practicing sword. There are, in these latter days at least, instances in Jo practice where you take the left hand grip (right hand at bottom end) but I can't say whether this is tradition.

Quoted from http://user.it.uu.se/~jimh/kendo/kendo/texter/lefthanded.html

and if you think I'm being a part of something that grew based on that, well I wouldn't wait on that one :)

Sign of weeknes indeed :)

[taganahan]

the world is flat...and if you really go too far off, you're gonna fall.

they also thought that left handedness was an evil kind of thing. you know, people weren't really used to see left handed people so they condemned them as evil. just my 2 cents here.

i mean, by the way you're answering some of the stuff it seems that you wanna do kendo but you wanna do the kendo-myway thing. if you wanna do your own technique that's fine. most people have their own techniques here, which some of them made up, but they didn't do it right away. example: if you wanna learn jodan, nito or other stuff, you got to ask your sensei to teach you because books and videos are not enough. but senseis teach these kind of stuff when you're already a nidan or up, sometimes shodan though. so, you gotta learn a lot of basics, and i mean a lot of it.

like neil said, because your the kind of person who is free spirited you won't last that long. kendo is traditional and almost all people stick to the traditional kendo.

~taganahan

[SaitoHajime]

the world is flat...and if you really go too far off, you're gonna fall.

i mean, by the way you're answering some of the stuff it seems that you wanna do kendo but you wanna do the kendo-myway thing. if you wanna do your own technique that's fine. most people have their own techniques here, which some of them made up, but they didn't do it right away. example: if you wanna learn jodan, nito or other stuff, you got to ask your sensei to teach you because books and videos are not enough. but senseis teach these kind of stuff when you're already a nidan or up, sometimes shodan though. so, you gotta learn a lot of basics, and i mean a lot of it.

like neil said, because your the kind of person who is free spirited you won't last that long. kendo is traditional and almost all people stick to the traditional kendo.

~taganahan

You could have at least said hexagonal, if that's even a word. In any case before someone comes up with this profound thought which I had already thoght of a while ago. I'll probably just end up taking iaido and practicing with my left hand in my spare time. It's double the work but might be my only means of accomplishing my goal, besides if it was easy it wouldn't be fun.

[Swissv2]

You seem to appear to believe that it is possible to learn by reading. there is one problem though: you will not know if you are doing something wrong when you teach yourself. When you teach yourself you are essentially improvising. Its "I think its correct so it must be correct" When you teach yourself, you may fall under the bad spell of "learning incorrectly"

You must understand by learning from a trained source physically before you can improvise. The best analogy I can come up with is one I have great knowledge about: Concert Piano Playing. Anyone can buy the books, listen to recordings, and attempt the music on the piano. But all those who attempt to play these hard music finds themselves trying to figure out how to play particular parts of the music which ultimately leads to improvisation. This is due to them not understanding the technical aspect of the music. I was accepted to the Julliard School of Music, but ultimately didn't go due to not being interested in a career playing piano all my life.

The same is with Kendo. While you may be able to read, watch, and read some more, there are technical aspects that are not revealed to you in the book alone. You might as well "re-invent the wheel" if you want to learn by yourself. Plus you will never know if you are doing something wrong because you do not have a trained eye watching you.

I have talked too much, but I can't sleep so I decided to reply.

[taganahan]

iaido is more on form....if you're the physical type person, you should really take kendo. about the lefty issue, if you're left handed that an advantage for a start. don't think of it still as an advantage in the long term though.

if you haven't seen kendo yet, you should visit your local dojo and check em out.

~taganahan

[SaitoHajime]

i mean, by the way you're answering some of the stuff it seems that you wanna do kendo but you wanna do the kendo-myway thing. if you wanna do your own technique that's fine. most people have their own techniques here, which some of them made up, but they didn't do it right away. True but I'm talking about changing hand and position, that's just not going to fly. Honestly I don't want to do it my way in kendo, I don't want to do kendo since it's structured like this. I'll probably end up just practicing sparing in general with some of the reny guys lol, and taking iaido with my other time. It's not much but I'll be happy knowing I'm truly developing as a swordsman. I'm also sure that at some point in iado i'll find a lot of people who want to spart regardless of which hand I use. I'm willing to bet they'll like it just because it's different.



they also thought that left handedness was an evil kind of thing. you know, people weren't really used to see left handed people so they condemned them as evil. just my 2 cents here.
They would probably have thrown me off a cliff back in the day after I finally killed someone with my left handed technique, and the sensei who taught me :(

[SaitoHajime]

You seem to appear to believe that it is possible to learn by reading. there is one problem though: you will not know if you are doing something wrong when you teach yourself. When you teach yourself you are essentially improvising. Its "I think its correct so it must be correct" When you teach yourself, you may fall under the bad spell of "learning incorrectly"

You must understand by learning from a trained source physically before you can improvise. The best analogy I can come up with is one I have great knowledge about: Concert Piano Playing. Anyone can buy the books, listen to recordings, and attempt the music on the piano. But all those who attempt to play these hard music finds themselves trying to figure out how to play particular parts of the music which ultimately leads to improvisation. This is due to them not understanding the technical aspect of the music. I was accepted to the Julliard School of Music, but ultimately didn't go due to not being interested in a career playing piano all my life.

The same is with Kendo. While you may be able to read, watch, and read some more, there are technical aspects that are not revealed to you in the book alone. You might as well "re-invent the wheel" if you want to learn by yourself. Plus you will never know if you are doing something wrong because you do not have a trained eye watching you.

I have talked too much, but I can't sleep so I decided to reply.
Check out some of my other post, I'm just reading to get an idea of things and having fun. I don't believe the book will at all teach me the things I need to get from a sensei. Which is why I'll most likely end up joinin an iaido class and just using my left in my own time. This way I learn to properly execute the moves and can just change them over to my preference.

[taganahan]

i don't think they really spar in iaido(spar as in fight)......

~taganahan

[SaitoHajime]

iaido is more on form....if you're the physical type person, you should really take kendo. about the lefty issue, if you're left handed that an advantage for a start. don't think of it still as an advantage in the long term though.

if you haven't seen kendo yet, you should visit your local dojo and check em out.

~taganahan
I've watched the mpegs and I've had sessions with a friend of mine who studied ninjutsu for a while. When comparing the two I really saw how different they were. While sparring with him it was fun and we got to try a lot of different things with each other while being relatively safe. I enjoyed that a lot. Then I looked at kendo and although it was not live I got such a sense of how there was only a certain system for attacks. I wasn't just watching students either, these were finals of some type. All they did was use footwork, not even much deffense, it really seemed to come down to the person with the fastes most accurate swing. Don't get me wrong this was a great example of what they set out to accomplish but is not what I'm into. Call me silly but I would have loved to have seen one opponent use either a different type of weapon or attack, that's just me :)

[SaitoHajime]

i don't think they really spar in iaido(spar as in fight)......

~taganahan
No it seems they don't. Pretty much it's just about katas but I plan to take that knowledge and use it for sparring with others, and yes with the left or right hand. As I think about it, if I can become ambi with my swordmanshp, now that would be interesting :) totally hard but interesting.

[Swissv2]

Did your friend call ninjutsu another thing? or did he just call it ninjutsu. Who was the soke of his art? (soke meaning grandmaster)

[SaitoHajime]

Did your friend call ninjutsu another thing? or did he just call it ninjutsu. Who was the soke of his art? (soke meaning grandmaster)

He said ninjutsu but that's an old friend from years ago so I couldn't answer your questions. Trust me though he was a ninja in training, slept with my ex right after we broke up, now if that's not ninja I don't know what is :). Man if me and him ever get to spar again....

[taganahan]

Trust me though he was a ninja in training, slept with my ex right after we broke up, now if that's not ninja I don't know what is :). Man if me and him ever get to spar again....
woah....he really is a ninja! works in secret and is just a figment of the imagination. stabbed you right at the back...that's gotta hurt.

~taganahan

[Kaoru]

Interesting read. I can only say that some people like being in the matrix and some people want to break away. To tell you the truth neither one is right, they both have reasons. I just want to use my left hand because no one is doing it. Not because I believe it gives me advantage or anything like that. If I'm going to commit my time, money and life to something then I'm going to do it because it's personal to me and I enjoy it. Call me crazy but I'm really just not into being a kendo drone. I don't knock what you are doing but I really can't see myself looking forward to engaging a room full of people who know the same things I do, where is the growth there. How do you grow in a place where everyone is not the same but uses the same techniques. I'd probably be beaten more by the boredom of it all then anything. Still I knew even before you posted that I wouldn't be able to join a kendo dojo. There's just no fun in it for me. Well there would be from the jump but I'd tire of knowing that no matter who I faced he wouldn't be able to try anything new on me because it wouldn't score the point and therefore was of no use to him. You should probably refrain from pointing out anyone elses martial art to be less then yours, that doesn't speak highly of you. I may not think kendo is for me but I will never say it's less then any other martial art if not an amazing one actually. It's just not for me.
I find it interesting that you make this decision based upon no knowledge and experiwnce in any art. You never even set foot into a dojo, and you claim you know it isn'tfor you? You don't understand one thing I even told you.

Well, then you are out of luck. You will never learn any real JSA with this attitude. And, you can't ask us for help either, because we can't help you.
If you will be stubborn like this, then you really are not that interested. Get yourself a bokuto and then mess around if you want. But, don't go around calling it Japanese sword arts.

You cannot say Kendo is not for you without ever experiencing it or even having watched a practice. You would know for sure after watching a practice to see what it really is. Right now, you have NO clue at all. You can't even base a decision on an imagination of what it is.

I told you how you grow. Did you even read that? You don't get it at all. Using the same techniques is what a JSA IS. Nobody just makes stuff up. Musashi did not just make stuff up. He actually trained in a dojo, in case you wonder. I'd love to see you go against a hachidan(8th dan). You'd not even know why he was able to hit you so fast. and you'd never even realise he DID hit you. You do not learn every single technique in one year. You learn more from year to year. You really don't know what you are even talking about. There are 3 basic cuts in Kendo, and then there are a bunch of variations of those cuts. And, there are different kamae(stances) too. You never know, once you get into bogu a half a year to a year later, what somebody will use on you. And, you might not even have learned the one teechnique they use on you yet. That is part of growing. You just saw a new thing and are aware of it then, and then have to learn to parry or avoid it. One type of growing is learning how to deal with a new waza(technique) thrown at you for the first time. Oh heck, it is no point even explaining, because you don't care. You obviously don't want to know. *Sigh*



There's just no fun in it for me. Well there would be from the jump but I'd tire of knowing that no matter who I faced he wouldn't be able to try anything new on me because it wouldn't score the point and therefore was of no use to him.

Ok, Shall we throw you into bogu and let you swing however you want with a shinai making up "waza" while a trained sensei or trained student thumps you into submission in a ji-geiko(sparring match)? That is exactly what would happen to you. With this arrogance you just showed, you'd be toast. Whoever it was sparring you, would make sure of that. You would be very lucky if someone did not choose to tsuki you to the wall. Tsuki is a thrust to the throat, by the way. Only shodan(1st dan) and above are allowed to learn this. What you just said, is that you couldn't be touched. Ha. You'd be serious toast that others here would have for breakfast.



You should probably refrain from pointing out anyone elses martial art to be less then yours, that doesn't speak highly of you.

If you even knew what I am referring to, you would not say this. What they do is downright dangerous. I am talking about what goes on in the weapons category at tournaments. I can't even watch without covering my face. It is sheer folly and is not real JSA. The others here would agree with me. Until you are trained, I suggest you just listen. Anyway, you are one to talk. Hence:


Call me crazy but I'm really just not into being a kendo drone. I don't knock what you are doing but I really can't see myself looking forward to engaging a room full of people who know the same things I do, where is the growth there.
You don't even practice Kendo, have never seen it, or even tried it. This is pure arrogance... I am sorry to say that to you, and I don't mean to huirt your feelings, but this is how you are coming across. You DID knock Kendo in an indirect way. So, you need to start just listening now since you are with no experience in any art. You won't be engaging a room full of people. You will be at the bottom of the chain and work your way up from there.

Now, having said that, I am going. I have Kendo practice tomorrow.

Kaoru

[SaitoHajime]

woah....he really is a ninja! works in secret and is just a figment of the imagination. stabbed you right at the back...that's gotta hurt.

~taganahan
Actually he stabbed her so I didn't feel a thing. My pride was hurt but I've since gotten over that. Though I'd enjoy putting my reserved anger and emotion into a match with him.


I find it interesting that you make this decision based upon no knowledge and experiwnce in any art.
Kaoru
Do you need to burn yourself on the fire to know it's hot or something?

[taganahan]

damn right kaoru! you just said the things i couldn't say.

you should really listen to people around here. you asked a question and you should listen.

have fun with the practice!

~taganahan

[SaitoHajime]

What Kaoru said
I don't like to litter threads by quoting the whole thing. In one post or another I clearly stated that I'd probably look into iaido and just practicing left handed on my own. Thus ends the great kendo debate as it's just not for me. I think it's great an all, just not what I really look forward to. I guess I'm just a kata kinda guy :)

[Kaoru]

P.S.

I'm sorry I was so curt. I am just a little annoyed that you won't go to a dojo and try it before you make up your mind. I still stand by what I said. I just wanted to say I wasn't being curt to be mean. Having an open mind is important in life. Making a decision based on nothing cannot help you in anything. I am trying to get you to think and consider. (Ok, it doesn't help that I am still up and it's late and am a little tired, too. Sigh. I think I will go to bed so I don't keel over in Kendo tomorrow. I'm not mad at you at all. I was just trying to help.)

Kaoru

[SaitoHajime]

damn right kaoru! you just said the things i couldn't say.

you should really listen to people around here. you asked a question and you should listen.

~taganahan
I did listen lol. Whoever said I didn't? I can't use my left hand, kendo is structured in a way that I wouldn't like, end of story. Iaido and it's transferable katas would probably suit me much better. There's a dead horse of there won't you please not beat it :)

[Swissv2]

SaitoHajime if Kendo doesn't interest you, then it doesn't. Do whatever floats your boat.



I really can't see myself looking forward to engaging a room full of people who know the same things I do, where is the growth there.think of it this way. take the NBA finals. Each basketball players know the same things as everyone else. There is something missing: The Ability to apply your Skill. There is plenty of growth possible.

I highly suggest you watch this video if you have nothing to do.
http://kendoshop.com/eshop/index.php?mode=kosoboard_view&szTblName=pr&page=1&id=5&szFid=-4&szDepth=1&limit=&keykind=&keyword=

or this link of you want to download the same video
http://kendoshop.com/images/8dan.wmv (http://kendoshop.com/images/8dan.wmv)

I recommend you listen to Kai Miyamoto saying this: "I clearly wish I had more steady training" Also pay attention to the fact that even though they are 7th degree black belts, they still are willing to ask each other for assistance. This is important. You MUST get a trained person to train you no matter what you do. Period. To learn by yourself means you will not get anywhere.

[SaitoHajime]

P.S.

I'm sorry I was so curt. I am just a little annoyed that you won't go to a dojo and try it before you make up your mind. I still stand by what I said. I just wanted to say I wasn't being curt to be mean. Having an open mind is important in life. Making a decision based on nothing cannot help you in anything. I am trying to get you to think and consider. (Ok, it doesn't help that I am still up and it's late and am a little tired, too. Sigh. I think I will go to bed so I don't keel over in Kendo tomorrow. I'm not mad at you at all. I was just trying to help.)

Kaoru
Haha I'm sorry I probably should have told you earlier that I enjoy these type of things, debates that is. You put a smile to my face miss Kaoru and helped me stay up and busy while at work. I want you to know that your words were not at all lost on me. I felt in a way like we were sparring and truth be told you had much more range then I could ever demonstrate at this point. I'll probably go to a kendo dojo, watch and ask questions if not just because I talked to you and it would be my way of showing appretiation for your efforts.

[Kaoru]

I don't like to litter threads by quoting the whole thing. In one post or another I clearly stated that I'd probably look into iaido and just practicing left handed on my own. Thus ends the great kendo debate as it's just not for me. I think it's great an all, just not what I really look forward to. I guess I'm just a kata kinda guy :)
Oh, I must have been posting. Iaido would be good. Check out the dojo Charles-san posted in his post to you in your other thread, ok? I'd love to study Iaido, but can't. It's a beautiful art. I love kata, and love the Kendo kata we do with bokuto. I am forever begging my sensei to do kata in class. He always gives in, hehehe! :) Yeah, you'd like Iaido if you like kata. Be prepared for lots of hard work! And, being on your knees a lot. Gez... I am still awake!

Kaoru

[SaitoHajime]

SaitoHajime if Kendo doesn't interest you, then it doesn't. Do whatever floats your boat.


think of it this way. take the NBA finals. Each basketball players know the same things as everyone else. There is something missing: Skill Level. There is plenty of growth possible.

I highly suggest you watch this video if you have nothing to do.
http://kendoshop.com/eshop/index.php?mode=kosoboard_view&szTblName=pr&page=1&id=5&szFid=-4&szDepth=1&limit=&keykind=&keyword=

or this link of you want to download the same video
http://kendoshop.com/images/8dan.wmv (http://kendoshop.com/images/8dan.wmv)

I recommend you listen to Kai Miyamoto saying this: "I clearly wish I had more steady training" Also pay attention to the fact that even though they are 7th degree black belts, they still are willing to ask each other for assistance. This is important. You MUST get a trained person to train you no matter what you do. Period. To learn by yourself means you will not get anywhere.
Thanks for the video link also read in one of my post I said I didn't like basketball or football for the same reasons. It's like I'm the guy who wants to do slamball because it was new and different but the idea never got off the ground because so many people were rooted in the nba. I dislike this kind of circle that keeps humanity from moving forward in a faster pace.

[Kaoru]

I did listen lol. Whoever said I didn't? I can't use my left hand, kendo is structured in a way that I wouldn't like, end of story. Iaido and it's transferable katas would probably suit me much better. There's a dead horse of there won't you please not beat it :)
What do you mean, "transferable?" It does not transfer to anything. Each Iaido Ryu(style) is different and has its own kata.

Kaoru

[SaitoHajime]

What do you mean, "transferable?" It does not transfer to anything. Each Iaido Ryu(style) is different and has its own kata.

Kaoru
I mean what I can learn and do wth my right hand so can I also....... :)

[Kaoru]

I mean what I can learn and do wth my right hand so can I also....... :)
Oh. No, it doersn't work that way. You can't do that. You'll find out soon enough the hard way. ;) You can try, but it'll just mess you all up.

Kaoru

[SaitoHajime]

Oh. No, it doersn't work that way. You can't do that. You'll find out soon enough the hard way. ;) You can try, but it'll just mess you all up.

Kaoru

A man who loses one arm can be just as good with the other arm, it takes huge amounts of effort and time but it can be perfected. I'll just probably seem like a b average student as I'll be doing double the work of the others. Nothing worth having is easily earned :)

[SaitoHajime]

Oh. No, it doersn't work that way. You can't do that. You'll find out soon enough the hard way. ;) You can try, but it'll just mess you all up.

KaoruI hate when I forget things as I post.

Why do you say can't all the time miss Kaoru, nothing is impossible if you put your mind to it :)


Also note this article http://user.it.uu.se/~jimh/kendo/kendo/texter/lefthanded.html proof of the idea.

[Swissv2]

Think about people trying to build an aircraft to go into space. Long ago, there was a scientific surge. Many wanted to go into space and proposed ideas how how to build the aircraft. All were wrong in their designs, but over time a solid base of mathematics and understanding of physics were they finally able to get an aircraft first off the ground, an engine, a rocket, steel materials, etc.

Heres the bottom line: you do, but do not understand. You see, but do not comprehend. You think, but do not know. You hear, but do not listen. You must first learn to walk before you jump.

Iaido was established many years ago. Experience and learning of skill is very important before you "improvise" a new technique. You must understand all the aspects of right hand, before you learn left hand. Only then, will you be able to do left hand. Musashi, whom you admire, learned and mastered the right hand before he did left hand. Please understand this before you jump directly into left hand style.

[Kaoru]

damn right kaoru! you just said the things i couldn't say.

have fun with the practice!

~taganahan
Walay sapayan ug Salamat taganahan-san! (Kahibalo ko ug little of Cebuano. Though, you speak tagalog, right? What's the "ta" before ganahan?) You play the piano that good? That is aweome. What you said made perfect sense in regard to learning the piano and the corrolation(Sp? Tired.) to Kendo. I am a classical percussionist. And, I play the piano too. Though, percussion is my major instrument.

(I said "you're welcome and thanks" those who can't read the above.)

Now I really am going to bed!

Kaoru

[SaitoHajime]

Iaido was established many years ago. Experience and learning of skill is very important before you "improvise" a new technique. You must understand all the aspects of right hand, before you learn left hand. Only then, will you be able to do left hand. Musashi, whom you admire, learned and mastered the right hand before he did left hand. Please understand this before you jump directly into left hand style.

You seem to think that I think this is just as easy as some anime where in the next cell I'm shown 10 years later cutting an apple in 3 pieces then sheathing my sword. This is NOT how I see this at all. The point is that if I choose to dedicate my life to something then I am doing to make very sure that this is going to be the something that I want it to be. Then again you don't know me at all since you've just seen me post. Had you have known me you'd know that once I get my mind set on something there is no stopping till I'm comfortable with the results. I plan to pour my soul into this if I have to but I also realize the dramatic results that I can achieve. A swordsman who can possibly use both hands or the never used left hand, it may not sound like much to you but I find it unique and valued enough to pursue to no end.

[SaitoHajime]

Oh forgot to add, on the other side should I fail to recognize my dream of being a left handed swordsman then at least I'll still be able to be a right handed one but I won't have to worry that I didn't try my hardest thus I'll have no regrets in life.

[Swissv2]

Had you have known me you'd know that once I get my mind set on something there is no stopping till I'm comfortable with the results. I plan to pour my soul into this if I have to but I also realize the dramatic results that I can achieve. A swordsman who can possibly use both hands or the never used left hand, it may not sound like much to you but I find it unique and valued enough to pursue to no end.
Having your mind set is good, it is what is needed. But, if you are planning on teaching yourself by referencing books and videos, you run the risk of not learning correctly.

Even if you spent a lifetime coming up with things on your own and improvising, you will soon realise that the very things which you believe is revolutionary in iaido has most likely already been done. You would kick yourself saying "I can't believe I spent all that time figuring out that particular technique when I could have learned it faster by being trained"

As for left handed, you have instantly made learning Iaido hard for yourself due to the fact you have to mirror everything that a right handed person does. Mirroring leads to many errors. You are only hurting yourself by not having a highly Iaido sensei train you.

Like I have said: to revolutionize you must first fully understand. To fully understand you must learn first hand by a trained person. Iaido is a physically learned skill, not only a mentally learned skill.

[Kaoru]

I hate when I forget things as I post.

Why do you say can't all the time miss Kaoru, nothing is impossible if you put your mind to it :)


Also note this article http://user.it.uu.se/~jimh/kendo/kendo/texter/lefthanded.html proof of the idea.
Ok.. one more post. Valid question. Why? Because some things you just can't do, and there are certainly other thing, you can do. This is one of the times, where you can't. JSA is complicated, and has many things taught that has been passed down for hunderds of years, and these arts have not changed since, with very few minor exceptions. And I mean MINOR. I am not talking about new techniques at all, here. Maybe a waza is lost to time, because part of a scroll was lost, that sort of thing.

What Swiss-san just wrote is said very well. Thank you Swiss-san.(Man, hahaha, I keep thinking of Swiss Cheese every time I see your name. I don't know why... forgive me! It finally got to me. :D I just can't help it... Every time I see it, that's what I think. hehehe!)

Anyway, read his post. It's good. SOME things are not impossible if you set your mind to it. Others are not meant to be done regardless. If you read Charles-san's post aboit why, this is a very good reason not to. Yoi donlt weant an injury. Well, you will use a bokuto(wooden sword) for a long time at first anyway, but still... You don't want to develope bad habits. If you try to do both, you will mess up in class and possiby injure another student next to you in class while trying to do one thing one way by accident, when you are supposed to do it another way. Trust me, this can happen, and if it does, you will seriously hurt that student. Doing things the way they are suposed to be done in a JSA class is very important to you and to your fellow students. You have a responibility to them, to practice things correctly. You are a literal danger to others, should you try to do techniques not meant for the left hand and get used to it, and then get confused in class. Yes, it CAN happen. You will be sorry if it does. This is a safety issue that you need to listen to.

Kendo is not Iaido. They are completely different arts. Iaido uses techniques not used in Kendo, and were meant to kill and CAN kill. Really, one wrong slip. and you hurt someone. In Kendo, we were bogu at the advanced stage. In Iaido, the whole class is not in bogu when learning kata. No-one is protected. See my point? Thisis why you need to adhere to the sensei's wishes. In a traditional Iaido dojo, they don't care if you are right or left handed. They will not accomodate you. That is why I said you can't.

Does this help? :)

Kaoru

P.S. I better go or I'm gonna pay for it... sensei will not be easy on me if I slack because I am tired! :D Good night... :)

[Swissv2]

I hope this story helps you understand:

As a kid of 10 years old I was absolutely fascinated with Ninjutsu. Every day I would read up on as many books as I can, and emulate what they had to say. Every day I watched as many ninja-turtles and other related ninja movie I could find over and over again.

I held this fascination with me for quite a long time (9 years) and had gathered quite a collection of videos and books. I was never trained.

I was introduced to Taijutsu by a friend of mine. I decided to take Taijutsu with him. I met a guy who was a 10th Dan in Taijutsu, and his knowledge of body movement, balance, and weapon usage was astounding.

I learned that Ninjutsu was only an aspect of Taijutsu. Ninpo, as it is referred to, is the art of stealth and does not define the entire martial art. I learned that the soke was Masaaki Hatsumi, 34th Grandmaster of Togakure Ryu

Masaaki has been awarded for his willingness to bring this ancient art to the western world. He has since then made many many videos of his technique and they sell quite well. But one thing he said will stay with me for the rest of my life:

"I appreciate people trying taijutsu as a martial art, and many have tried to emulate me by watching my videos. But there is one thing that I must warn is though you may put as many cameras on me as possible at every angle, you will not understand what I do. My movements are never the same, they change as it needs according to the person. But there is a fundemental correctness that must be established to understand how to improvise the technique"

I learned the hard way, for my taijustsu sensei had to re-teach me everything that I had assumed I learned correctly all those 9 years. There is a truth in that you must first understand before you can think about improvising your own method.

[Kaoru]

Haha I'm sorry I probably should have told you earlier that I enjoy these type of things, debates that is. You put a smile to my face miss Kaoru and helped me stay up and busy while at work. I want you to know that your words were not at all lost on me. I felt in a way like we were sparring and truth be told you had much more range then I could ever demonstrate at this point. I'll probably go to a kendo dojo, watch and ask questions if not just because I talked to you and it would be my way of showing appretiation for your efforts.
I really was off to bed, but I just caught this post, and wanted to reply before I left. I know you did already. Domo arigato gozaimasu for your kind words.(That's polite Japanese you would learn in Kendo meaning thank you very much.) *bow* hehe, I'm glad I was of help in some way! That's ok. Yeah, debates are cool, I'd agree. I enjoy a good debate, myself. But, I really wanted to help out. I'm kinda stubborn that way. hehehe, It was kind of like sparring... Hadn't thought of that! Funny! I'd love it if you would visit a Kendo dojo and even try the class to see if you'd enjoy it. It is loads of fun! Oh, I think you would love it, once you tried it. You might be surprised. And, after you did that, and then still didn't like it, that's ok too. You'd have to come back here and tell me what you thought, though! :) I'd be very curious!

Well, this time, I am really leaving. hehehe!

Kaoru :)

[dohrt]

I have had only two kendo classes so far. I am obviously a novice, and therefore, my words should not be expected to represent any profound understanding of kendo.

Nonetheless, I'm going to comment here. I can relate to your comments, mainly because I have always been very individualistic and have swam against the tide in many aspects of my life.

Two themes in your posts really are what I'm speaking about here. One is the idea that Kendo, due to it's structure, stifles individualism. It is this "sheep" mentality of kendo that makes it seem pointless.

My response to this is to ask why you post here in english. Why speak a language that is so structured, that regulates how you use grammar, how you use "words" - that has a finite number of words even. How can you be an individual if you only follow the "rules" of english, like a sheep in a flock ?

It may seem to be an absurd and silly example. But I feel that Kendo is a language, much like english. The structure, the etiquette, the ritual, this all are the grammar, syntax and lexicon of the language that is Kendo. Like any language, there is structure, but that structure is actually there so that things can be communicated, so that individuals can express themselves.

This brings me to the 2nd theme in your comments - the idea that due to the structure, all that Kendo ever boils down to is who is faster. My conception (though this is the perception of a novice mind you) is that those who are advanced kendoka can not only "hear" the "kendoese" of their opponents, but can "speak" it as well. Through subtle movements, muscle tensions, relaxations, positioning of the body, and more difficult to understand aprehensions, the advanced kendoka can manipulate their opponent, force their hand.

In this way, advanced Kendo is not about speed. It's true, a practiced kendoka is much faster than I am, and could use this alone to defeat me. But that isn't what gives them success against their peers. It's the language. The tension. The feeling. The ability to hear and push their opponent.

That is the real attraction to me for Kendo. I love swords, I always have since I was a little child. But Kendo uses the medium of the sword to teach what it really offers - human understanding. Self understanding. How to read and control. How to marshall yourself. I have always felt the most noble goal one can set is to master themselves. For me, Kendo is a way for me to work on this lifelong pursuit.

For those who read this who are experienced kendoka, I apologize, both for my weak portrayal of ideas that I am only beginning to be cognizant of, and for my audacity in trying to explain something I really should leave to those with more understanding. Still, I thought that my words may be a good perspective on why someone with no real kendo understanding would take it up, particularly someone who feels a need for individual expression.

[Neil Gendzwill]

dohrt, you make good points, beginner or not. And if kendo were only about speed, you'd never see the 70 year olds thumping the 20 year olds.

Saitohajime - you asked why I thought you were close minded. I say so because you reinforce this with every post. You've got a bunch of ideas about what kendo should be, or how you would do it, and probably some fantasies about how terrific you'd be at it if only you could do it your way. What you haven't got is any clue about what it actually is. You're so busy trying to impose your view on it that you'll be unable to actually see it when you're there. Kendo has hundreds of years of history behind it, and has been refined and learned by millions of people. There is a wealth of technique and thought behind it, which you want to ignore immediately for doing your own thing. I see guys like you every September. They always quit.

[Swissv2]

dohrt hit the nail on the dot.

Saitohajimem, if you are trying to develop your own "revolutionary" way of Iaido or Kendo you are free to do that by yourself. But what you will find yourself doing is pulling from what is already documented and learned! If you wish to find something where you can truely make up your own techniques, try this

http://dogbrothers.com/

Or try Brazilian style ju-jitsu. All these arts have taken refined techniques of old martial arts and re-applied them to the art of combat. Kendo and Iaido, on the other hand have certain rules and structures. Kendo is the mastery of how to do Kendo, not the mastery of full combat. Iaido also is the mastery of how to do Iaido, not the mastery of full combat. Both Kendo and Iaido are a nod in reverence to the old art of war. But both arts realise that we have long since passed the age of swords, spears, and bows and arrows.

That is not to say that Kendo and Iaido is not dangerous, they both can be dangerous! Injuries can occur very easily if you do not do something properly, and you run the higher risk of a hefty medical bill if you mess up. Kendo and Iaido has been refined and developed as Neil said, not only in technique and form, but in the value of safety and an acute and highly developed understanding of the very weapon you use.

[DCPan]

FWIW, anatomy is not symmetrical.

Imagine a guy training in empty-hand art, but wanting to mirror-image everything because he's left haned. What was a strike to the liver would not quite be the same when you mirror it now, would it?

When you cut kesa-giri, there's meeting the blood vessels and lymph feedback on the left that isn't on the right side. You can see the pulse of the tip of the heart on the left, but not the right.

If you really want to go there, you'd think just mirroring everything will produce the same result?

FWIW.

[Swissv2]

DCPan I think you gave him too much to think about, hehe :D

[DCPan]

DCPan I think you gave him too much to think about, hehe :D

LOL! :rolleyes:

I use to be really big about things being symmetric...but really, when one hand is in front of the other, you can not be symmetrical...some movements are easier from one-side compare to the other.

Besides, I was under the impression that pro-boxers actually have a jab-side and a power-side...because of the muscle groups involved, it is better the specialize in particular types of motion.

When you look at some martial artists who like to practice topless (in bad kung-fu movies), you can actually "see" this specialization because their ab-muscles are assymetrical.

FWIW.

[Skolld]

he could try Calvin-ball, i hear that's pretty individualistic :wink:

(hopefully some of you are familiar with Calvin and Hobbes)

[taganahan]

Walay sapayan ug Salamat taganahan-san! (Kahibalo ko ug little of Cebuano. Though, you speak tagalog, right? What's the "ta" before ganahan?) You play the piano that good? That is aweome. What you said made perfect sense in regard to learning the piano and the corrolation(Sp? Tired.) to Kendo. I am a classical percussionist. And, I play the piano too. Though, percussion is my major instrument.

(I said "you're welcome and thanks" those who can't read the above.)

Now I really am going to bed!

Kaoru
you flip or you went there?....kabalo pud ko mag-binisaya....though i speak
half-half of each....i don't have a straight language. i speak half tagalog and half bisaya at home.

hmmm?...taganahan is my last name....haha

~taganahan

[Kaoru]

you flip or you went there?....kabalo pud ko mag-binisaya....though i speak
half-half of each....i don't have a straight language. i speak half tagalog and half bisaya at home.

hmmm?...taganahan is my last name....haha

~taganahan
hehe, Neither. I have a couple JSA friends who live there. I have learned some bisaya from them. I think visiting there one day would be neat though.

Half of each? Cool. Where in the Philippines are you from? (If I may ask.)

That's your last name? haha, I was a bit thrown by it, since "ganahan" means "like" in bisaya! Lo-uy!

Kaoru

[taganahan]

i used to live in davao then moved to cebu then moved back to davao....now, i'm in canada

~taganahan

[SaitoHajime]

I have had only two kendo classes so far. I am obviously a novice, and therefore, my words should not be expected to represent any profound understanding of kendo.

Nonetheless, I'm going to comment here. I can relate to your comments, mainly because I have always been very individualistic and have swam against the tide in many aspects of my life.

Two themes in your posts really are what I'm speaking about here. One is the idea that Kendo, due to it's structure, stifles individualism. It is this "sheep" mentality of kendo that makes it seem pointless.

My response to this is to ask why you post here in english. Why speak a language that is so structured, that regulates how you use grammar, how you use "words" - that has a finite number of words even. How can you be an individual if you only follow the "rules" of english, like a sheep in a flock ?

It may seem to be an absurd and silly example. But I feel that Kendo is a language, much like english. The structure, the etiquette, the ritual, this all are the grammar, syntax and lexicon of the language that is Kendo. Like any language, there is structure, but that structure is actually there so that things can be communicated, so that individuals can express themselves.

This brings me to the 2nd theme in your comments - the idea that due to the structure, all that Kendo ever boils down to is who is faster. My conception (though this is the perception of a novice mind you) is that those who are advanced kendoka can not only "hear" the "kendoese" of their opponents, but can "speak" it as well. Through subtle movements, muscle tensions, relaxations, positioning of the body, and more difficult to understand aprehensions, the advanced kendoka can manipulate their opponent, force their hand.

In this way, advanced Kendo is not about speed. It's true, a practiced kendoka is much faster than I am, and could use this alone to defeat me. But that isn't what gives them success against their peers. It's the language. The tension. The feeling. The ability to hear and push their opponent.

That is the real attraction to me for Kendo. I love swords, I always have since I was a little child. But Kendo uses the medium of the sword to teach what it really offers - human understanding. Self understanding. How to read and control. How to marshall yourself. I have always felt the most noble goal one can set is to master themselves. For me, Kendo is a way for me to work on this lifelong pursuit.

For those who read this who are experienced kendoka, I apologize, both for my weak portrayal of ideas that I am only beginning to be cognizant of, and for my audacity in trying to explain something I really should leave to those with more understanding. Still, I thought that my words may be a good perspective on why someone with no real kendo understanding would take it up, particularly someone who feels a need for individual expression.
Wether you have a full understanding of kendo or not I do feel that you at least understand a bit of my points on things. However on my speaking of english language there are some things I'd have to say. If I were learning kendo to fight to live I wouldn't really care what I had to do to learn it or which hand I used because it was to live. Which hand I use now or how I wish to use a shinai won't really affect me living unless I manage to somehow fall on it with my nose driving it into my brain, but I don't see that happening. If I moved to japan I'd learn japanese the way it was taught and I'd also try to pick up on slang. As with the english language, I know how to use it but I'm glad that someone went against the grain and made up slang which I also love to use. I type this way because I'm talking to you and don't know you but if you knew me you'd know that I can talk a totally different way :). This is also why the usage of my left hand interest me. It's another thing that I can add to my toolbox that isn't common. Take note that I don't feel that one should absorb or try everything just because it is there. The left hand just happens to be something that interest me :).

[SaitoHajime]

dohrt, you make good points, beginner or not. And if kendo were only about speed, you'd never see the 70 year olds thumping the 20 year olds.

Saitohajime - you asked why I thought you were close minded. I say so because you reinforce this with every post. You've got a bunch of ideas about what kendo should be, or how you would do it, and probably some fantasies about how terrific you'd be at it if only you could do it your way. What you haven't got is any clue about what it actually is. You're so busy trying to impose your view on it that you'll be unable to actually see it when you're there. Kendo has hundreds of years of history behind it, and has been refined and learned by millions of people. There is a wealth of technique and thought behind it, which you want to ignore immediately for doing your own thing. I see guys like you every September. They always quit.
You're wrong on every point you just posted. The beginner had a better clue as to my thoughts then you. What I type and who I am don't always reflect each other added to the fact that you don't know me I see why you think what you think but I will say that you are wrong. Of course this is just based on what I think I know about me from a lifetime of being me. You could possibly be seeing me more so then I see myself. :)

[SaitoHajime]

FWIW, anatomy is not symmetrical.

Imagine a guy training in empty-hand art, but wanting to mirror-image everything because he's left haned. What was a strike to the liver would not quite be the same when you mirror it now, would it?

When you cut kesa-giri, there's meeting the blood vessels and lymph feedback on the left that isn't on the right side. You can see the pulse of the tip of the heart on the left, but not the right.

If you really want to go there, you'd think just mirroring everything will produce the same result?

FWIW.
You have a point there. I never said it would be a one to one copy just the basis. Adaptation important.

[SaitoHajime]

he could try Calvin-ball, i hear that's pretty individualistic :wink:

(hopefully some of you are familiar with Calvin and Hobbes)
Not familiar enough but I get what you are infering. That's funny :)

[Storm_tyrant]

I actually regestered just to post this lol, i used to think exactly the way u do(i dont care for proper spelling or punctuation on message baords...just making that clear) I used to and still do have an obssession with being different and avoiding what others are doing at all costs, but then i realized that is impossible, every thought u have is the result of an experience u saw someone else do or create, every word u use or type is something u were forced to learn over the first years of your life. There comes a point where u gotta let go of being 100% original and settle for 70% iv been doing kendo for about 3 months and i dyed my kendogi and hakama black since the kendogi's dont come in black(hakama's do but the black wouldnt match) any suit of bogu that costs less than 800$ is dyed using a type of fabric paint, i found a site that sells it in different colors and i plan on making my bogu black also. Thats just one aspect of being different, its not about standing out but just having things the way YOU want it.

Even if u think kendo isnt for u, i suggest watching one practice, i did the same thing, i got all the info possible before i actually went to a dojo, and even after the first day i thought kendo was just "whoever swings first and fastest wins" but after my first few practices i realized how much skill it took to do something that looked so easy, there are so many little things that everybody does different but its all so quick that it takes a couple months to even realize it. When u take the time to watch the students spar u will also realize that each person has a different style. Later on u can learn nito-ryu(2 handed) or even one handed tecniqes(sp) like i said i know how u feel when it comes to needing to be different but there is also something special about being with a group of guys that all like the same thing and learn from eachother. I know this was probly hard to understand, its 530 am and im seeing double =P but i hope it helped even a little.

[SaitoHajime]

I actually regestered just to post this lol, i used to think exactly the way u do(i dont care for proper spelling or punctuation on message baords...just making that clear) I used to and still do have an obssession with being different and avoiding what others are doing at all costs, but then i realized that is impossible, every thought u have is the result of an experience u saw someone else do or create, every word u use or type is something u were forced to learn over the first years of your life. There comes a point where u gotta let go of being 100% original and settle for 70% iv been doing kendo for about 3 months and i dyed my kendogi and hakama black since the kendogi's dont come in black(hakama's do but the black wouldnt match) any suit of bogu that costs less than 800$ is dyed using a type of fabric paint, i found a site that sells it in different colors and i plan on making my bogu black also. Thats just one aspect of being different, its not about standing out but just having things the way YOU want it.

Even if u think kendo isnt for u, i suggest watching one practice, i did the same thing, i got all the info possible before i actually went to a dojo, and even after the first day i thought kendo was just "whoever swings first and fastest wins" but after my first few practices i realized how much skill it took to do something that looked so easy, there are so many little things that everybody does different but its all so quick that it takes a couple months to even realize it. When u take the time to watch the students spar u will also realize that each person has a different style. Later on u can learn nito-ryu(2 handed) or even one handed tecniqes(sp) like i said i know how u feel when it comes to needing to be different but there is also something special about being with a group of guys that all like the same thing and learn from eachother. I know this was probly hard to understand, its 530 am and im seeing double =P but i hope it helped even a little.

Well let's make that registration worth it :). I like your opinion on things and think we for the most part see things alike. All in all when it comes to the issue of which hand I (as posted above) realized that it really doesn't matter which hand I use because either will work. However since classes are taught with the right hand that's the only way I'll really be able to learn the art. In this case I think carrying this wish to be different would have adversly affected my learning in that it would have been more of a disctration then helpfull, but as far as wearing the gear the way I want or in the color I want or things like that. Of course I'm sure that's another subject of epic debate, blah blah blah. Of course this brings me to why I'm not so sure about the keno thing. I mean all I can say is that it seems fun and worth getting into just for the exercise. I guess it's like playing basketball for me. You get on the court you do your thing, you might get a little better at it but in the end you can't decide to dribble two balls at the same time and you can't use any jersy you like or anything creative, and that is just not exactly what I'm looking for. In any case thanks for the comments.

[Snobody]

Nonsense. You can wear whatever color keikogi and hakama you want, just be prepared for the beating you'll receive by the many people who don't feel that a polka dotted keikogi and a neon green hakama belong on the dojo floor.

On the other hand, you might want to check out http://www.dagorhir.com/ .
I'm not kidding or making fun here, I honestly think that if 5 pages of posts haven't done anything but reinforce the fact that kendo is not for you, then it really isn't for you. Look for something else, but I'd also advise to stay away from any real martial art or sport.
Kendo is not a bunch of right handed people insisting that their right handedness must be correct because left handed people are evil and should be damned to hell and to teach them to use a weapon with the left hand would unravel the universe. It is not an art in which everyone must conform to a standard, otherwise Big Brother locks you away and makes you love him. The problem is that you look at kendo and see that everyone looks the same.
"Hey, they all hold the shinai the same way. Hey, they all swing at the same spots. Hey, all their uniforms are that same dull blue color. Hey, their footwork is all the same. Hey, their bogu all looks the same. How lame this kendo crap must be. How boring. These guys should try and be unique like me and the other hundred thousand people standing in backyard holding a sword ripped straight out of a bogus anime that has the blade on the wrong side. Now try it LEFTY!"

Look a little past the uniforms and the shinai, damnit! Kendo is an individual art on a whole other level. Wearing the same thing does not make you the same person. Having the same fundamentals does not mean you are doing the same thing as the guy next to you. If you can't quite grasp the fact that doing things the same way does not mean that you're all doing the same exact thing, then you were correct from the start. Kendo is not for you.
Look into Dagohir. They'll let you hold the sword with your left hand.

[SaitoHajime]

Nonsense. You can wear whatever color keikogi and hakama you want, just be prepared for the beating you'll receive by the many people who don't feel that a polka dotted keikogi and a neon green hakama belong on the dojo floor.

On the other hand, you might want to check out http://www.dagorhir.com/ .
I'm not kidding or making fun here, I honestly think that if 5 pages of posts haven't done anything but reinforce the fact that kendo is not for you, then it really isn't for you. Look for something else, but I'd also advise to stay away from any real martial art or sport.
Kendo is not a bunch of right handed people insisting that their right handedness must be correct because left handed people are evil and should be damned to hell and to teach them to use a weapon with the left hand would unravel the universe. It is not an art in which everyone must conform to a standard, otherwise Big Brother locks you away and makes you love him. The problem is that you look at kendo and see that everyone looks the same.
"Hey, they all hold the shinai the same way. Hey, they all swing at the same spots. Hey, all their uniforms are that same dull blue color. Hey, their footwork is all the same. Hey, their bogu all looks the same. How lame this kendo crap must be. How boring. These guys should try and be unique like me and the other hundred thousand people standing in backyard holding a sword ripped straight out of a bogus anime that has the blade on the wrong side. Now try it LEFTY!"

Look a little past the uniforms and the shinai, damnit! Kendo is an individual art on a whole other level. Wearing the same thing does not make you the same person. Having the same fundamentals does not mean you are doing the same thing as the guy next to you. If you can't quite grasp the fact that doing things the same way does not mean that you're all doing the same exact thing, then you were correct from the start. Kendo is not for you.
Look into Dagohir. They'll let you hold the sword with your left hand.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. People always make fun of the guy who tries to be different but yet they use inventions everyday from some guy who thought "hey let's do it like this instead of that". Instead of encouraging new lines of thought you favor telling me that I'll just hurt someone or that I'm just trying to be a guy out of anime. I can see kendo has really opened up your mind :). I mean after all I just think kendo isn't for me but that doesn't mean I won't go to a dojo and talk to people about it as I've said in post before this. As I said how ironic that all these people who came up with new and cool things at some point were teased or belittled by those who just wanted to keep doing it the way it has always been done.

[DCPan]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People always make fun of the guy who tries to be different but yet they use inventions everyday from some guy who thought "hey let's do it like this instead of that".

That's sounds good in theory; however, a lot of these people who think outside of the box achieved a certain level of competency inside the box first.

You can't revolutionize something if you don't even know what you are revolutionizing...fair? :rolleyes:

That's why people research before they have breakthoughs.

FWIW.

[Storm_tyrant]

A couple things i forgot to mention since i was half awake this morning are...Im left handed also, and when they told me i had to swing it "right handed" i was like wtf i wanna do it my way, but when they say being left handed is an advantage they mean it. I know that saying all this is probly pointless and kendo probly isnt for u but this is from one lefty to another =) Think of it this way, it takes a weekend to learn how to write with the opposit hand, your left and right arm are exactly the same, its all in your head the only difference is your left hand has slightly more strength. This is kinda hard to explain but just because u spent so much of yoru life writing and throwing etc. with your left hand, that doesnt automaticaly mean your left hand is better at swinging a shinai, see what i mean? its not just right handed jibberish, it really doesnt matter, the only difference is u will hit harder than everybody else. Either way it wont be comfy at first, it wont feel natural. Someone told me once that the reason why Kendo has so many rules and structure to it is to keep people from just making wild swings at eachother till one of them scoers. It forces people to have skill, cus anybody can swing a shinai like a blind guy on crack.

Anyway im just rambling, dont take this the wrong way but there really is allot more to kendo than what u think, u have to learn the rules and the basics, first, its like learnng to walk before u start trying to dance. Its probly too late to say all this but give it a real chance, real as in go to a dojo =P

[SaitoHajime]

That's sounds good in theory; however, a lot of these people who think outside of the box achieved a certain level of competency inside the box first.

You can't revolutionize something if you don't even know what you are revolutionizing...fair? :rolleyes:

That's why people research before they have breakthoughs.

FWIW.
DC I never said this wasn't required. Also this thread began with a question. Research is based on asking questions right? Also it's not like I said I am here to bring the left handed technique to you so listen up people. In fact I never claimed to know anything about anything. People so far have just assumed left and right that I either think I know everything about everything or that I feel like I already have this whole thing pegged. I've made no statement to infer that and if I have will someone please point out to me where I acted like I knew anything ?

[SaitoHajime]

Someone told me once that the reason why Kendo has so many rules and structure to it is to keep people from just making wild swings at eachother till one of them scoers. It forces people to have skill, cus anybody can swing a shinai like a blind guy on crack.


I'm still going to check out a dojo at some point, though classes aren't done at the same time that I'm off work so I'll have to go in the day at some point probably this week. Yes I'm that silly boy who likes the idea of someone being able to swing like a blind guy on crack or use other simulated weapons. Probably sounds like anarchy but I would still rather do that then go up agains people all using the same weapons bound by the same rules. Yes they can hit me before I'll even see the shinai move and that's cool, however I'd really like to try fending off other weapons or styles, I'm just easily bored like that. All of this goes without saying that kendo is much deepr then swinging a stick and it's that part I respect but if it's about kendo the most. However I'm also not all about the mental so at some point I'll probably look at joining a dojo if not just for the workout. For the rest I'm thinking iaido is a better start.

[DCPan]

I've made no statement to infer that and if I have will someone please point out to me where I acted like I knew anything ?

See below.


I notice that most every teaching or demo that I see uses the right hand as the primary.

Your primary assessment is already incorrect. While I can't speak for every style, for kendo and zen ken ren seitei iaido, the left hand is the primary/dominant element.


However if it's a choice between using my dominant hand for power or guidance I think I would rather use it for precission guidance as good technique shouldn't require as much power. Any thoughts ?

It's not as simple as that. Your left-handedness does not necessarily correlate with an inverse in brain spherical dominance.

So, again, there can be precision guidance in spherical dominance as yet undiscussed.


However your information supports my theory that kendo has a structure all it's own that I wouldn't exactly fit into.

Presuppose you understand the structure of kendo.


What do you mean there is no left handed way of holding the shinai?

Actually, there are a couple...people just don't use them much because they are rare or advanced.

There's gyaku-jodan...for example.

There's katate-hidari-jodan.

Etc.


Well it's really more of the same. I could conform but where is the fun in that :)

The fun is in acquiring the vocabulary to fully expressed yourself. It makes no sense to censor your vocabulary before you are fluent.


To tell you the truth neither one is right, they both have reasons.

Answer to the first quoted question.


The reality is that I am not the type who wants to be just like everyone else

Aren't you making an implied assumption about the conformity to those who practice kendo?

I can go on and on, that was just the first page and a little bit of the second.


Research is based on asking questions right?

No, you begin research with a question, then figure out a way to answer it with primary information, not secondary information you hear from other people.

You can talk away on this forum all day, and not achieve anything useful because you don't even know the relative skill and experience of the individuals that have taken the time to respond to you. You don't know if they are being truthful in what they are sharing. Even if they are being straightforward, they may not have the experience to answer you.

If you want a reliable answer, you'll have to "EXPERIENCE" it for yourself.

FWIW

[SaitoHajime]

Your primary assessment is already incorrect. While I can't speak for every style, for kendo and zen ken ren seitei iaido, the left hand is the primary/dominant element.Primary is relative to what you define primary as. I stated it incorrectly but I also said most and not all. Most is relative to my definition of it. If you thought that I meant anything other then some of but not all then that's the way you see it.


Originally Posted by SaitoHajime
However if it's a choice between using my dominant hand for power or guidance I think I would rather use it for precission guidance as good technique shouldn't require as much power. Any thoughts ?


It's not as simple as that. Your left-handedness does not necessarily correlate with an inverse in brain spherical dominance.

So, again, there can be precision guidance in spherical dominance as yet undiscussed.

I only said if it was a choice. The key word being if.

Originally Posted by SaitoHajime
However your information supports my theory that kendo has a structure all it's own that I wouldn't exactly fit into.


Presuppose you understand the structure of kendo.

Theory is just that a theory. If theory were fact then this world would be different. If my theory is wrong I can learn what the right thing is but that that again is why it's a theory. I never said I understood anything. Only that I had a theory

Originally Posted by SaitoHajime
Well it's really more of the same. I could conform but where is the fun in that :)


The fun is in acquiring the vocabulary to fully expressed yourself. It makes no sense to censor your vocabulary before you are fluent.

I simply meant it's boring to me to repeat my thoughts over and over. If you find it fun the by all means please do so.

Originally Posted by SaitoHajime
To tell you the truth neither one is right, they both have reasons.


Answer to the first quoted question.

It's a relative answer. Right and wrong are only what any person believes them to be and therefore aren't exactly defineable as a whole. It was an opinion. Opinions can't be right or wrong for everyone just the person who stated it so I sitll never said I knew anything. I only gave an opinion

The reality is that I am not the type who wants to be just like everyone else


Aren't you making an implied assumption about the conformity to those who practice kendo?

I can go on and on, that was just the first page and a little bit of the second.

It was a general statement and implied only what it implied that I just don't want to be like everyone else. I don't see where that really means anything other then to myself.

Research is based on asking questions right?


No, you begin research with a question, then figure out a way to answer it with primary information, not secondary information you hear from other people.

Based on and begin with, these two seem very similar but that's just my opinion.



Sorry I didn't do everything with quotes but I'm at work so I'm having to cut corners.

[Kaoru]

i used to live in davao then moved to cebu then moved back to davao....now, i'm in canada

~taganahan
Oh, I see! Geez, how'd you end up in Canada?? I have heard it is beautiful there, but I think I wouldn't last a second in the cold there! I can barely stand Winters here! I am from S. California... Don't you just freeze?? Sorry, I couldn't help but ask...Going from a tropical place like the Philippines to Canada is a huge difference!

Kaoru

[Nanbanjin]

There are a few things I'd like to pick out but this one just jumped out at me. I'm curious to know who the sensei learned thier technique from and who that person learned from? In other words unless the technique fairy jumped out and suddenly bopped someone on the head with it's magical sword, anyone can develop a technique which is then refined over the years. Sorry that's about the best way I could say that after listening to some of the things you are coming up with. It sort of seems like you have a somewhat elitest attitude when it comes to all things JSA vs JUSTABOUTANYOTHERTHINGINTHEWORLD. It's that closed minded "it's the way it's done" type attitude that has so many human beings on this earth acting like robots and listening to whatever fool comes up with the next big thing even though it really isn't that great but I guess when you are starving jack in the box must taste like steak. You sure seem to think that kendo and the dojo are just the way to go but have you ever even had a match with someone who fights with escrima sticks or sais or any other weapon? No I dont mean real weapons because each one of those has a practice weapon to be used. I don't want to fight the same way and the same people all the time. I want to opponents with methods I've never heard of or experienced and while some will say I practiced kendo today I want to say I used my shinai left handed style against my friend with his padded boken, which I actually did by the way. Now I may not have technique and yes I was using my left hand but it was fun and I got to know some of the problems of trying to fend off a boken not just another shinai which btw my friend also practices with. That's the kind of fun I enjoy. Even in unarmed combat it's soooo much fun for a kenpo guy to go spar with a tae kwon do guy. My cousin who does grapling loves to visit other types of dojo because that's how he grows as a fighter (well part of it at least). Once again and forever I'll say I'm not bashing you or your chosen art form as I would never want to bash any person or thier art. However I would never agree with anyone who boxes themselves into a belief that this or that is the only way because there is never just one way to do things and the sooner people see that the sooner we as a humans can all move that much farther.

I prefer to limit the amount of techniques you can use. It's best to play an opponent who uses exactly the same techniques that you use. Then the only way you can win is to be better at those techniques, i.e. have better basics.

[taganahan]

it's not really that cold in here. most people think that because canada is way up north, it's a freezing hell. it rarely snows here at vancouver and when it does, it going to be 1-2 inches of snow only. weeee!!!...what fun. i still remember my sister making a snow man out of snow+mud. hahaha

~taganahan

[SaitoHajime]

I prefer to limit the amount of techniques you can use. It's best to play an opponent who uses exactly the same techniques that you use. Then the only way you can win is to be better at those techniques, i.e. have better basics.
Sounds like good practice for basics but how far can you really grow in this scenario. Our military trains in basic warfare which is good but they also train for unlikely yet possible scenarios which keeps them ready for the unpredictable situations. Of course it goes without saying that if you are simply good at youre technique then you can take on a wide variety of opponents already. Still rangers and seals are highly regarded because of thier many different skills, not just only being good at the basics.