Canadian Kendo Federation

[Confound]

I noticed recently that the Canadian Kendo Federation doesn't actually list their fees on their website. How sneaky. The more I read about the Federation, the less I like it!

Can someone honestly tell me how much it costs? I know we went over costs in Mingshi's thread, but I want an exact amount from someone training in Canada. Also, how much does the ni-dan exam cost, plus the menjo fee?

I'm starting to think that studying kendou in North America sucks. There are far too many fees, equipment is too expensive, and the Federations milk you for every penny.

If someone can halt the spread of my violent disillusionment, please, do so.

c

[kendokamax]

15 $ per year.

[Alex]

Jeez that's cheap!
Whoever complains about that much has some serious issues!

I think some people have absolutley no idea how much time and effort and personal costs are involved in trying to run a federation and promote kendo. It's just whine whine winge, and what am I getting from it....Depends what you put into it, really!:alien:

[Haowen]

I don't know about "it's expensive to learn kendo in all of North America". I live in the US, and have studied kendo as a beginner in both California and Pennsylvania. I was absolutely staggered by the incredible low monetary cost of kendo. I mean, you get sensei who have earned their ranks through a lifetime of study simply -volunteering- to teach any interested student for free, basically. Even ignoring their incredible skill levels, most of these guys have huge salaries in their regular jobs, just thinking about the opportunity cost they are spending to teach kendo is enough to fry my brain. Compare all that to, for example, yoga which averages maybe USD$70/mth for instructors of all varying skill levels. I'm incredibly grateful that kendo is such an open, sharing community here in the US. I have no idea how it is in Canada but it is certainly not "expensive" in the USA!

[Will]

No offense confound, but just because you're cheap doesn't mean north american kendo sucks. We might not be as strong as Japan or Korea, but Kendo isn't the active here as it is there.

Secondly, different federations within Canada might have different fees, etc.

[AlexM]

In Canada there is only one (legitimate) kendo federation (the CKF...thank the maker).
As for the exam and certificate fees: Check the CKF website under "downloads". There's a form that shows the fees for exams and the certificates.

[Ian Russell]

Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002
From: Bruce Campbell
Subject: Canadian Kendo Federation AGM - PAY YOUR ANNUAL FEES (http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0207&L=iaido-l&P=R216)

Hello all

Non-Canadian readers can skip this message - it relates to the CKF AGM held
last Saturday in Vancouver as part of the 14th Canadian Kendo Championships.

For the CKF members - be it Kendo, Iaido, or Jodo - PAY YOUR ANNUAL CKF
DUES!

People have gotten into the bad habit of paying dues only in the years that
they grade. This significantly reduces the annual operating revenue of the
CKF - by about 60%!

Many folks complain that they never see any benefit from the CKF. The
reason is that there is very little to work with after CKF meets commitments
to the Canadian Kendo Team.

The Board has proposed a very good plan to separate Team Canada fund raising
and make the team self-funding. This will be done by regional fundraisers
across Canada. The intention is that ALL other revenues (dues and grading
fees) will go to support CKF developmental programs.

But, unless we pay our annual fees EVERY YEAR there will be little to work
with.

Once you take your first examination under CKF (usually ikkyu) you are "in"
and should be sending in your dues, through your dojo, every January.

AND HERE IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DON'T.

The Board proposed a large increase (around 20% for all dan levels) in
examination and registration fees at the AGM. After extensive discussion
this motion was defeated - but only after several people, including me,
commited to lobbying you to be more diligent about dues.

So, the formula is simple. Pay your annual dues and keep examination and
registration fees down or pay a lot more for them. If you do the simple
math you are WAY ahead by paying your dues and so is the CKF.

Please, support the growth of kendo, iaido, and jodo in Canada. Pay you
annual dues.

Best Regards
Bruce Campbell
President, BC Kendo Federation
Sunrise Kendo
Shin Ken Kai Iaido
Vancouver

[Confound]

Hey, I didn't say it sucks, I'm just a cheap-o. Look, I've been spending the past two years living on half a shoestring (I send a substantial portion of my paycheck home to be invested for university), and I'm not going to be able to count on Canada Student loans to pay for mynext degree. Thus, I'm rather worried about money issues involved in studying kendou during university.

c

[stinkyKote]

CKF fees are the least of your worries and are only once a year anyway. University fees can typically be a little bit more expensive to play kendo in Canada because the monthly fees are usually made up of usage fees for the athletic centres, although, if you're enrolled, I think this fee may be waived making university kendo very cheap- if you're really that curious I can find out from any number of people that visit from neighboring universities to play kendo-

[stinkyKote]

oh, and yes you did say "kendo in north america sucks", and "Federations milk you for every penny".

The CKF is a non-profit organization. All the committee members have day jobs, and volunteer an inordinate amount of their personal time to promote kendo in North America. If you don't think it's worth it, feel free to come to my dojo some time, I'll introduce you to one of my sensei, and you can tell him in person that you think the CKF is ripping you off.

[amatsuda]

Originally posted by Confound
I noticed recently that the Canadian Kendo Federation doesn't actually list their fees on their website. How sneaky. The more I read about the Federation, the less I like it!

I'm starting to think that studying kendou in North America sucks. There are far too many fees, equipment is too expensive, and the Federations milk you for every penny.
c

Normally I ignore her posts, but after reading some of the recent posts by Confound as well as this post, I have to say...."What a Jerk...."

I don't know how everyone else feels, but I find it completely and utterly disrespectful for someone (who isn't even a member of the CKF or AUSKF or know much about the organizations) to come onto a public forum and state that they feel that practicing Kendo in North America "sucks". Then, go on to accuse the two non-profit organizations (CKF, AUSKF) that they try to milk people for every penny.

This statement is insulting to everyone who practices Kendo in North America. Especially the Senseis who spend personal time to keep their local and national federations going and to teach basically for free. The Sensei in both Canada and U.S. only try to give back to their students the teachings they have received from their Sensei. No one is compensated for their time or instruction.

In fact, they are probably spending their own personal funds to attend the various Kendo federation functions.

She may defend her statments and opinions by claiming to be a "Piker" or a "Snob", but I think the real issue is we have someone who has little or no respect for other people or an appreciation for Kendo.

amatsuda

[Haowen]

Flames off, everyone, she just made a mistake. People get misinformed sometimes.

Read this thread, you'll find she acknowledged she was mistaken.
Kendo > Dojos > Toronto/Vancouver (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=372)

osame-toh, people ;)

[KhawMengLee]

Best Regards
Bruce Campbell
President, BC Kendo Federation
Sunrise Kendo
Shin Ken Kai Iaido
Vancouver

Is this the same Bruce Campbell of Evil Dead I and II and Army of Darkness Fame?

http://www.bruce-campbell.com/

http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/5923/hail.wav

:D :D :D

CHEERS
MENG

[Antonin]

Well, if Confoound has made a mistake, it would be nice to hear it from her, not from you. The point is that it is not the first time that she's expressed, shall we say, rash opinions about just about everything and anything at all. Kendo in Norh america sucks ? Stop practicing ! What can I say ?
Antonin

[Confound]

Anontin, poor form, poor form. However, my expectations are low from you.

Please note what I actually said:

"I'm starting to think that studying kendou in North America sucks."

Those of us who are aware of English grammar will not that the previous sentence does not have the same meaning as the following:

"I think kendou in North America sucks."

Please note the tentative quality of the first question, as evinced by the use of "starting to think".

Ah! I have posted this in error. Antonin doesn't think! I can't expect him to understand. Forgive me for wasting everyone's time.

c

ps - My exact words were "happily disappointed" upon acknowleding my mistake. Hardly the words of someone upset about being incorrect.

[Kenshi]

> Anontin, poor form, poor form. However, my expectations are low from you<

I tend to keep quiet in threads such as this, but had to butt in when I saw what you wrote about [my friend] Antonin. Basically, your condescending tone is just rude.

>If someone can halt the spread of my violent disillusionment, please, do so<

I think thats your problem, not anyone elses.

Perhaps if you used your actual name you wouldnt be so .... enthusiastic with your opinions?

[stinkyKote]

That's just semantics. If I told you:

"Your mother is a cheap whore."

I don't suppose that's any less insulting than:

"I'm starting to think your mother is a cheap whore"

I don't think anyone here cares if your comments were 'tentative' or not.

[KhawMengLee]

Okaaaayyy....lets defuse the situation shall we?

I can see where this thread will go and we don't need another "don lubo" type incident. Lets not forget that we are here because of our passion for kendo and not to bicker...

C'mon everyone hug and make up, eh?

PEACE
MENG

[Raiza]

Whoa, I'll try to change the thread's direction a wee bit here because this is related to the original topic. I belong to a dojo that has already rolled the CKF fees into the regular activity price and the overall fee is a pittance compared to a 'commercial' dojo (no comment on that here).

The benefits of being part of the CKF are enormous. Here's but one example. If you're in Canada, can spare $10 and are at the right place at the right time, you can attend a Team Canada Gasshuku. For a $10 CDN ($6.50 US) donation to support Team Canada you can watch the country's best at work for a weekend and get the chance to practise and do keiko with them. I'm in the midst of it right now, and all I can say is that I've never received a better return on my investment, and I don't think I ever will. I only wish my knowledge of kendo was better so I could appreciate this opportunity more. I am a mere flea by comparison, but at one point long ago, each person there was a flea too.

I am so fortunate to receive my kendo training here. Even as a poor graduate student as you appear to intend to become, Confound, I could not ask for a better place.

Raiza

[stinkyKote]

Hey, I've seen Confound lay the smackdown a lot harder on other people, if she can't take the heat, maybe she shouldn't be so quick to dish it out-

[inner_cent]

Just to add something very interesting I came from...

I started my Kendo in SKC (Singapore kendo Club), started as beginner, got my own bogou, and ikyu, sho-dan, etc etc. The only fee i paid for are something like "Club" fee of SG$120 per year, and nothing more. Sensei and sempai who were there, they taught people Kendo in the beginner's class for free, out of their own free will.
They still have to pay the Club fee, also spend half of their training time (one hour out of 1.5 hour per training, and 2 training per week), dedicated to the beginners for the next 6 months, before they are ready for the main group of kendoka training.
In the main bogou class, most of the japanese sensei willingly take their time, travel to other affiliated club (mostly academic clubs) to teach people there.
During Grading, all fee are kept minimum (like 10dollars for kyu grade, and 25 for ni-dan and sho-dan, and 50+ for higher).
Competitions, fee are also kept only are 10bux per competition.
At end of the financial year, if any fund left are contributed to the world champianship team fund.

Now, the real question here is, How did they survive that ? Its because their costs is low, so they can afford lower their fee down. eg. the Dojo is borrowed from a Japanese school, and the school only want some fee back to pay for electricity costs, and nothing more. And also the club fee also covers the costs of insurence in case of injury.

As for other club, they might need to pay kind of fee to conver their costs, if a club need to pay like $1200 annually for the ground they train, high premium of insurence, etc etc, then of course, you will imagine the fee they expect will be substancial.

Anyway, that is my 2 rupiah of thoughts......... :P

[Antonin]

oooo, she's so witty ! Well done, confound (what's your name, BTW?), in one post you've proven me right! i am very pleased to be vindicated ! of course, I knew i was right, but it is still nice to hear it.


"However, my expectations are low from you. "
Err.... On what do you base this ? You don't know me and I hardly post.... Prejudice ? Agressivity ?



"Ah! I have posted this in error. Antonin doesn't think! "

Is it just my feverished imagination, or are you being rude again ? I dont think ? Look, thingy (whatever you name is..). let's be clear : I am not interested in trading insults with you. Some people do that well enough, and I am not going to make you the pleasure of engaging in what seems to be your favourite past-times: disparaging, whining, flaming and insulting.
What's more, i think it is good form to answer directly to criticisms, instead of refering to me at the the third person.
I wrote what I wrote for I was irritated by your constant moaning and belittling of other people and their opinion. And what answer do you have to that ? more of the same ! Well done. As I sad, you're so witty...

Thanks for the support, George !

Antonin

PS: as for my knowledge of English grammar, write your posts in French and THEN we can talk about it, OK ?

[munenmuso]

Confound is a she? I thought all the while that she is a he.

I read some of her posts and find some of it annoyingly critical and yet honestly subtle. You may not like it sometimes, but democracy even exists in this forum.

But Confound, alibi is simply a weak defense, but what the heck.I'm sure your not vying for Ms. Friendship in this forum, aren't you? As you said, you live for your detractors.Then so be it....

[Confound]

Confound is a she, and has been absent a week or so, preparing for a grading, marking exams, preparing grad school applications and doing other real life things.

I could write my posts in French, but I'm afraid that it wouldn't be comprehensible to many people. If this were suddenly switched into a French forum tomorrow, then I would try my best to post in good, Acadian French, which goes a little something like this: J'ai runne mon car dans le ditch.

That said, I am glad to be proven wrong about the costs, and will gladly pay such a small fee every year. I was expecting fees more in line with those that Minshi had spoken of in Hong Kong, seeing as I am totally unaware of fees anywhere outside Japan (and the information given by other people on this forum about their own countries).

I could use my actual name, but if you're so intent on finding it, there are very few secrets left in the world, I have great confidence that you can use the Internet and other means at your disposal to uncover the information. I am just as free with my opinions in real space as well, much to the continual consternation of my detractors.

c

[Tato]

Confound, you're lost case. I guess that no one will ever appoint you to represent your country to the UN. And the worst of all is that you get straigt fun from this. :rolleyes:

By the way, people really speaks Acadian French?

Rei

[chidokan]

Try running a club and see what it costs if you worry about money! My insurance is £50 ($75US) a year, hall fees are up from £10 per night to £15 per hour for the same hall size. This comes out of MY pocket. The students help with the hall fees, but if not many turn up I make up the difference. No doubt other instructors are in a similar position to myself. I do this because I enjoy my iaido and kendo, not to make money ( if only I could make enough to pay the hall!) People who whine about fees really get my back up.

Tim ( I sign my name) Hamilton

[Kendoka]

Why did she bother us with the question anyway !
Just ask the CKF.