Ki outside the Dojo

[Tholon]

Is the koncept of Ki, or rather the Power of Ki, applicable outside the Dojo?
I guess it is, so let me give you some examples.

When you are in a business meeting and you feel that you have full control over the meeting and over the other participants, is that an expression of Ki?

Or when doing some kind of presentation, and you have the audience by the balls. When you tell them to laugh, the will laugh. When you ask for intelligent questions, you will receive intelligent questions. Is that Ki?

Runners high, when you feel light and powerfull while running. Ki?

I once meet a stray dog when I was out running. Since I didn't know if it was going to attack, I was prepared to give a large Kiai and attack back. The got really afraid and ran off to its owner, didnt even dare to lock at me.
Ki - I dont know?

These situations all includes feeling of power and focus and yet being calm and relaxed.

These might just be stupid questions from a newbie.
But if Kendo can give us an ability to use Ki outside the Dojo, wouldn't that be a great thing?
Then again - for what I know Ki can be a specific Kendo term.

Any thoughts on this?

[YAMAFELL]

If you couldn't use Ki outside of the dojo, then a lot of it would be lost.

But I believe Ki to be different from most of your examples. I think the only true example of Ki was when you were talking about the runner feeling light, and thus putting forth their best efforts.

In the other examples it seamed like you thought Ki was some way of controling another by showing strength, but I beleive this not to be a factor. When using your Ki, you are putting your best efforts forward. You know your factor and are as strong and focused in what you are doing, but this does not mean that you have control over others by being able to make them laugh when you want them to. It just means you have a strong force within you helping you succeed with what you are doing.

I don't know much about Ki, since I have only been practicing kendo for 8 months while living in Japan. But I think it can be put to good use once understood by the person using it. ^_^

[not-I]

Ki is a universal concept. It is not at all kendo-specific.

According to the theory (Chinese medicine), everyone has ki, just in different levels/amounts, and it is possible to "center" and increase it through cultivation, lose it through unhealthy actions and thoughts, and "apply" it in various situations. They say when you have no more ki, then you've kicked the bucket.

I suppose you could say you were "applying ki" in your examples. You could also say you were "centered," or in more vernacular parlance, "in the zone."

Anyway, this definition might be helpful:

Ki. * Word that conveys an extremely broad concept associated with energy, spirit, intellect, and emotion, and often used as a psychological definition. It can define health (moral or physical), will (good or bad), nervous state (apathy or excitation), temperament (timidity or boldness), and so on. Ki (Chinese: qi) is thus a sort of force or energy that acts upon or through an individual in a variety of ways. It is somewhat equivalent to the Chinese Daoist "field of cinnabar" (Chin.: dantian) and the Indian prána, which correspond, more or less, to the Western concept of the "soul." Essentially, it is the bit of cosmic energy that is inherent in all living things, giving them their personality. One may have strong ki (tsuyo-ki) or weak ki (yowa-ki). An individual's ki may be remote from him or her (unconsciousness), "short" (a person who is quick to anger), "small" (a timid person), "long" (a patient person), and so on. The ki is located in the hara (abdomen). The instant liberation of ki during a sudden effort is accompanied by a sort of cry (exhalation) called ki-ai, somewhat analogous to the woodsman's "Hunh!" (ed. note. haha!). The notion of ki is at the basis of all martial arts because it expresses the coalescence and liberation of a person's energy.

(Japan Encyclopedia ed. Louis Frédéric. Cambridge: Harvard U.P., 2002)

[mystic_kendoka]

if someone is feeling weak or tired, koreans might say they are out of ki/gi... so its pretty much a common theme..

[mingshi]

I personally think it is rather unfair to use Jedi mind tricks on "normal people" outside the dojo. I don't even think we are allowed to do that...

[not-I]

I personally think it is rather unfair to use Jedi mind tricks on "normal people" outside the dojo.
Actually, i think it would be cool if i were able to use Jedi mind tricks IN the dojo.

The concept of Chi/Ki/Gi is neutral, so "it" can be used to achieve "good" or "bad" ends. A super-villian like Darth Vader also has "strong ki."

Using your mental kendo skillz to "win friends and influence people" might seem like a bad thing, but it doesn't have to be, especially if you end up benefiting others too. I've never heard that it's forbidden.

While we're supposed to "associate with others with sincerity," we're also supposed to be "contributing to the development of culture" and "promoting peace and prosperity among all people." I don't how we would do that if we were all a bunch of spineless wimps in daily life.

I think the important thing to remember is to get away from ego. If you're manifesting strong ki, whether in the dojo or a business meeting, and are "truly centered," you won't be caught up in thinking "I control the situation," you just will. What you do with it depends on your character.

[YAMAFELL]

but I want to rule the world! I want to rule everything! MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!! that's what it's all about! And it doesn't matter that I think this way, because it just is that way... right? yeah, I thought so.. (^_^V

[D'Artagnan]

Yeh i use Ki outside the dojo all the time!

To unlock the car, the front door of the house, to operate the car, i need a Ki for them all.

Guess what, you can also get your Ki duplicated if you need to!

[YAMAFELL]

I use mine to play the piano.. ^_^

[Atama]

Is the koncept of Ki, or rather the Power of Ki, applicable outside the Dojo?
I guess it is, so let me give you some examples.

When you are in a business meeting and you feel that you have full control over the meeting and over the other participants, is that an expression of Ki?



Check out a book called 'Ki in daily life' by Koichi Tohei its a good book.

[mystic_kendoka]

if someone is feeling weak or tired, koreans might say they are out of ki/gi... so its pretty much a common theme..

i thought about it, i think it can be translated as MP or Mana! hehehe,

[Andoru]

I use ki in my driving. :D

[mystic_kendoka]

tht would be kiai ;) example, LEARN TO DRIVE YOU #$#$@

[Andoru]

Well that too. ;)

I use ki to seme my way through traffic. I fart in the car sometimes too. :D

[mystic_kendoka]

how do u seme? stare at their bumper?

[JSchmidt]

Well, it's not that far off from what I do when I commute on bicycle in the London traffic..it's most certainly about projecting yourself, so that you get the space you need.

Jakob

[enjeru]

believe it or not my cousin says they're chinese monks that practice ki and can
move bells w/o touching.. as crazy as that sounds my uncle practiced ki for many of his years and thot me how to generate it, it can be generated with ur
bloodflowing a certain way matching with ur hand movements. and wen i do
these hand movements i feel sumthing soft but solid. i think this is the type of ki ur thinking of, the dragonball z kind, im not supporting it or going against it but i
feel something in my hand when i do this.

[mystic_kendoka]

btw ki is also refered to as ur spirit, when ur afraid of someone its said tht ur ki has died... (korean saying)

projecting yourself
fart and lighter?

[Lloromannic]

I once meet a stray dog when I was out running. Since I didn't know if it was going to attack, I was prepared to give a large Kiai and attack back. The got really afraid and ran off to its owner, didnt even dare to lock at me.
Ki - I dont know?
Or.... you smell :D:D:D

Seriously now I think that yes it can affect life outside the dojo, maybe the dog running away is something similar to when someone is in a really bad mood there is an almost palpable feeling around him (usually drawn as black lines above the characters head in cartoon strips).

[Andoru]

how do u seme? stare at their bumper?
Simple - use the car. :D

First you show proper reiho by indicating. If there's an opportunity (i.e. gap) to change lanes etc then exploit it for (traffic) yuko-datotsu. Otherwise seme your way through by using the car, giving the other drivers the cold stare etc.

Ki, as Jakob said, is about presence.

[Hai_hai]

...Or when doing some kind of presentation, and you have the audience by the balls. When you tell them to laugh, the will laugh. When you ask for intelligent questions, you will receive intelligent questions. Is that Ki?...
That's called low-level associates brown-nosing by laughing at all jokes, funny or not, told by higher-level associates.

[Caleb]

I read this book called "zen in the martial arts" and It talked about how ki effects us. Im sure its not wanted, or not needed at least, but my opinion of ki and its use "outside the dojo" or even in is your connecting your ki (spirit) to your action. Say that a dog is staring me down- if I dont use ki, or have the impression that an awesome force is inside me, I feel hollow, and show fear, thus letting the dog win its battle- what ever it may be. But, when I feel that presence inside me, I stare and feel aware-thus displaying zanshin- at the dog and he detects no fear. You would be amazed at how a face, or a body can change so slightly that you could sence a feeling, or an attitude. It can be applyed to kendo, dogs encountered while running, or a quiet night at home, you see how people react by visual change. Im pretty sure dogs can sence this too, but Iv never had the chance to talk to a talking dog, so I cant say.

anyway, try looking in a mirror and moving an eyebrow so slightly, and thinking how that changes the appearance, then think about feeling hollow, and feeling solid. Its easy to pick up

[Nanbanjin]

Reward offered!

Anyone who trained at Kenshinkai last Friday night, did you see my ki somewhere outside the dojo after training? I think I may have dropped it there. Have been living on the street since. Urgently need my ki back.

Edit: D'Artagnan was way ahead of me with this one. Damn!

[Tholon]

Hi all

Appreciate the responses. All of them :-)
Although I don't really see it as Jedi Tricks....

[KingCanute]

doesn't mingshi aka jenny look hot in that photo of hers hahahahahah!!!!

[Andoru]

I've been releasing plenty of gas these past 2 days. I did quite a few gaseous men cuts in that period. Behold my ki!

[Nanbanjin]

doesn't mingshi aka jenny look hot in that photo of hers hahahahahah!!!!
What's with the "hahahahahah"?
Mingshi looks great. You prefer litige?
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/member.php?u=1313

[D'Artagnan]

and wen i do these hand movements i feel sumthing soft but solid...

... I feel something in my hand when i do this.


Riiiiiiight you do realise this is KENDO world, don't you...

[Haowen]

I once meet a stray dog when I was out running. Since I didn't know if it was going to attack, I was prepared to give a large Kiai and attack back. The got really afraid and ran off to its owner, didnt even dare to lock at me.
Ki - I dont know?

Uh, next time you see a dog with an owner (which would not be a stray in that case), you might want to try saying hello and making friends instead of yelling at it ;) Poor doggie.

[D'Artagnan]

I bet it was this dog!

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3920&highlight=dogs

[nalogg]

Yeh i use Ki outside the dojo all the time!

To unlock the car, the front door of the house, to operate the car, i need a Ki for them all.

Guess what, you can also get your Ki duplicated if you need to!
HAHAHAHAHA

the reminds me of when i used to study karate, we were at a retreat, and the sensei locked himself out of his room. So he asked my friend chris, "where's the key" ie: the spare key chris had for the room. But chris thought it was a philisophical pop-quiz about karate and says, "ummmm well.. the Ki comes from having a focused mind... spirit....."
sensei says, "NO NO NO CHRIS! the key to the room... i locked myself out!"

[D'Artagnan]

HAHAHAHAHA

the reminds me of when i used to study karate, we were at a retreat, and the sensei locked himself out of his room. So he asked my friend chris, "where's the key" ie: the spare key chris had for the room. But chris thought it was a philisophical pop-quiz about karate and says, "ummmm well.. the Ki comes from having a focused mind... spirit....."
sensei says, "NO NO NO CHRIS! the key to the room... i locked myself out!"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

now that IS funny!!!

I'll use that when i am a sensei!