Musashi the Businessman???

[mingshi]

THE ORIGINAL LIFE-GUIDE BY JAPAN'S GREATEST WARRIOR

The philosophy in this book can affect your whole life. Written in 1645 by the most famous and unconquerable of the samurai, A Book of Five Rings is the classic guide to kendo swordsmanship and an exquisite distillation of the philosophies of Zen, Shinto and Confucius.

Now the West is discovering what the Japanese have known all along: that the ancient wisdom of the Samurai Way provides a strategy for decision and action in all areas of life- the home, the battleground and the boardroom. Japan's executives have long applied its teachings to their business methods, with startling success; and now the Americans are doing the same.

'On Wall Street, when Musashi talks, people listen' -TIME

'The supreme book on strategy... If you have wondered how it is that the Japanese can cleave through Western business communities like a samurai sword through butter, the answer lies not in more robots on the factory floor or company singsongs at 9am. It lies in A Book of Five Rings' -TIME OUT

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That's what it is at the back cover of my copy of the Book of Five Rings.

On re-reading A Book of Five Rings, I was wondering:-

1) When the hell did this book became "strategy at home and at work"??? Because I cannot really relate things in the book like that... Could someone enlighten me?

2) Amazingly at the moment it is #1,882 in Amazon.com's sale rank, including East Northport, NY (#1), Socorro, NM (#1) and Iowa State University (#15)..... I mean, hey, why are there so many people (non-Budo related) buying the book? Don't they have other books to read?

3) What about you? Do you find this book helpful? In what way?

:confused: P.S. The book is HARD to understand...

[nodachi]

I am equally confused about how it applies to business. The only point I have easily connected to Business without too far of a stretch is that every strike with the sword should be made with the intent of killing. Perhaps every attempt at a deal or sale in business should be made as an earnest attempt to make that deal. Although I figured that all business people try to do this anyway, but I could be wrong. : )

But from a Kendo perspective, I am a beginner. I have been training for only one month now. I find the book incredibly helpful. It gives me some of the information I don't get from my senseis since I can't speak Japanese yet.

[Li Pin]

Personally I think it's just another angle for someone trying to make a fast buck.

"The Art of War" by Sun Tzu has also been "applied" to management and has made lots of money for the authors.

By the way could anyone recommend a good translation (into English) of "The Book of Five Rings"?

Thanks,

Li Pin

[Gorget-the-Frog]

It's a stretch to say the least, much like applying a Zen story about two men catching a fish to making your whites even whiter (laundry).

But hey, it was the eighties...
Japan was kicking the US around in buisness and people were willing to buy into anything.

[Tato]

Hi folks.

I have not read the Musahsi book (yet, it's dificult to find in Spanish), but I've donne with the Sun Tzu's Art of War some time ago.

On this one you can extract many common sense tips about how to manage a campaing, implement an strategy, manage troops, and achieve results. All of those things can be easyly translated into business management, that's why many people read those books as a way to obtain some new advantage over competitors.

Of course, they can't be considered textbooks for busienss management, but you can use analogy to extract some very good points.

By the way, the same thing can be said about Machiavelo, Russeaux, Cesar and many other autors that writed time ago about how to lead men.

Rei

[Haowen]

The same thing could be said of Chairmaine Solomon's Complete Vegetarian Cookbook. By extending its cooking concepts to all aspects of my career, I have vastly improved my business relationships, working style and productivity. A must-read for all wholistic businesspeople!

:)

[ben]

'By the way could anyone recommend a good translation (into English) of "The Book of Five Rings"? '

Thomas Cleary's translation (available through Shambhala) is IMHO superior to the older translations. See KW #2 for an interesting insight into Book of 5 Rings, including the quite humourous source of the mistranslation - "holding down a pillow".

b

(Dr A., when r u gonna put me on the payroll? :))

[munenmuso]

Yeah your right mingshi.Since I bought the book of Musashi by Bantam press and in fact i found it at the business section not in the philosophy section,i was wondering how the hell brake loose.a samurai story became a bible for business stuff.and the most ironic part is that i never saw those businessmen carrying sword or even a shinai.perhaps there are more than meets the eye.What's next, the story of the three liitle pigs becoming a book of enlightenment in the business world.well at least the moral is there.build your business on a strong foundation and no wolf of competition can conquer or destroy you.or perhaps the philosophy of musahi is in fact timeless and universal hence the businessmen in the western hemisphere is chewing the pages with utmost enthusiasm and glee.I hope their japanese counterpart are not laughing at this.

as far as i know they were proud at leased but confused.who could ever wonder why a book written about 400 years ago and tackling only about and strategy and techniques by a poor samurai is now a bestseller and unofficially a book by corporate wannabees.Perhaps they found the answer already 400 years ago and trying to find a new answer this time that will suit your question.Im not and never an expert on this one.

[Danny Boy]

hmm, Why does the proverb : Warrior's buisness practises, spring to mind all of a sudden ;).

[KhawMengLee]

Japanese business practice, for a long time, was based a lot on the Samurai code. For example,

If a Company President asks you to sit on his right it means you are an honored guest. But note, where the Vice-President is. If the VP is sitting anywhere but directly opposite you it means the President trusts you.

The reason for this, reffering to budo, is that on his right you can stop him drawing his sword and at the same time draw your own blade to attack him. If the VP is opposite you he can counter whatever move you may make. But if he isn't there that means the President is basically placing his life in your hands...meaning he trusts you.

Now, no one is gonna be drawing swords in the office today but the gesture still has symbolic meaning to it.

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As for Musashi's book...I don't know how it applies to business but for example there is a saying that when people think you are ignorant, stupid and weak they tend to reveal more to you.

Its interesting how many Japanese CEO's use a translator at meetings. It would be even more interesting to know that the old japanese man sitting across from you probably graduated from Harvard or Oxford and speaks perfectly good english.

Why the translator? When you assume there is no threat you can rest your guard.

PEACE
MENG

[Tato]

Haowen wrote


The same thing could be said of Chairmaine Solomon's Complete Vegetarian Cookbook

Sorry, but there's a big difference in the quality and depth of the writings form the guys I mentioned.

Meng, It's an old, usefull (and dirty) trick, the occidental guys like me won't try to do such a thing (unless in a very planned way), we've tendence to try to communicate in the most direct way we can, it's interesting to know that it can be a common practice with Japan businessmen.

And sorry guys, but no one is telling that you're going to do literally what is said in a book, no one is wearing a sword in present meeting rooms (even if some times it looks like), but the concepts of attitude, strategy, respone and the like can be, by analogy, used on every confrontation/negotiation situation.

That's how those books are used, and why they're recomended to serious businessmen, and remember that no one should use those books as the only whay to conduct business, but as a reference book that can provide good concepts and out of the box ideas.

Rei

[Charlie]

May I direct you to some very good links>

First:

www.sonshi.com

a site dedicated to Sun Tzu but with very good info on other strategy writers, like Musashi, Machiavelli and Caesar.

Then,

www.ejmas.com

The Electronic Journal of Martial Arts and Sciences. Divided into several parts, including sections for physical training, combative sport and even western arts. If you look in the InYo section on martial arts and philosophy, you'll find articles by Cameron Hurst. Great writer, he's written a couple on the phenomenon of Musashi as business model.

I'm sure there's a business model there, but really it's popularity in the west was because the U.S. was getting beaten in business and was eager to latch onto anything that would help them "explain" the Japanese mindset.

May I also add that my preferred trans. is the copy that Mingshi has, tacky business-lingo and all. It's the one by the, whatsit, Nihon Services Corporation.

Hyaku, a poster here, is a practitioner of Musashi's ryu as well as a kendo sensei. He has noted, as have other kendo teachers, that the Go Rin No Sho contains some advice that is applicable to all kenshi, but also some that is specific to his ryu and therefore difficult or impossible for outsiders to understand. I've read it three or four times and find it fascinating. "Art of War" is excellent, and so is "The Prince."

[mingshi]

Thank you Charlie for the links. The article by Hurst had my original question answered. Great insight.

I'm currently holding the Victor Harris 1984 edition. But still I cannot get rid of the unwanted descriptions on Wall Street printed on the book cover... I was so desperate to have the orignal 1974 edition, but 1984 is probably the furthest I can get(without going for antique auctions).

Translation by Victor Harris is the first and the best. Especially if you are someone doing Kendo, you'd prefer a translator who knows Kendo too!!!

About "Sun Tsu"
--Classical Chinese literature! It is useful in business management, because the whole book is written for planning and strategies. I don't know the exact wordings in English, but by "Strategy", the author really means "Tricks". <---That's the first sentence from Chapter One. (Note: I'm referring to the original Chinese version.) Publishers are really smart to use that as their marketing strategy. Anyway...

Sometimes you see the world and read the book, but sometimes you read the book and see the world.

So what do the others think about Book of Five Rings. Stay put. Maybe I'd add something later on. Have to run for a class...

[Matthew Lagden]

of course there is always something to learn from anything you read but IMHO this is self aggrandising BS by men in suits who really want to be warriors.

"i'm not a purchasing supply manager. I am a warrior!!"

yeah right whatever.

And i should know, because I am one.

another classic of the genre is 'management techniques of Gengis Khan'

(presumably if your software house don't deliver you have them all flayed alive and make an artificial hill out of their skulls?)

read them for kendo, read for them for interest/enlightenment, but don't think they have any real business relevance...

[hamish]

Speaking of Victor Harris, we are featuring a profile/interview with him in issue no. 4 of Kendo World.

More to come as we get closer to the deadline.

Hamish

[Charlie]

Sweet!

Jenny, can you/have you read Sun Tzu in Chinese? I'm jealous. That's so cool. I love "Art of War" and re-read it often. To me, it makes obvious what should be obvious but isn't.

And I know what you mean about the Wall Street stuff. You think that's bad? The copy I have - I even gave it away and repurchased it from a used book store in the SAME format - the copy I have is the little paper-back-sized one from Bantam (in the U.S.) that has on the cover a crouching businessman in rain coat and brief case facing off with a samurai against a huge red circle on a white backdrop. So very, very 1980s...

Musashi seemed like a virtuous man, from his writings. I mean, the advice on combat notwithstanding, he says "harbor no sinister designs."

[Tato]

Originally posted by Matthew Lagden
"i'm not a purchasing supply manager. I am a warrior!!"

yeah right whatever.

And i should know, because I am one.

another classic of the genre is 'management techniques of Gengis Khan'

(presumably if your software house don't deliver you have them all flayed alive and make an artificial hill out of their skulls?)



AGGG!!!!!

A purchasing supply manager! I always had problems whit you, guys!

How did you know that my main activity is selling software?

;)

Now seriously, I more or less agree with you, experience is better than books, but experience+book use be to a better option.

Rei

[inner_cent]

MMmm basically, carry a shinai/bokken/katana around when doing negotiation with your client..... when negotiation breaks down, time to use the FORCE ......






*Sorry, can't help it here* ...............

[John W]

After I read the Book of Five Rings I perhaps understood about
20% of the book and the rest I tried to digest as best as possible.

As far as a bible for today's successful businessmen? Well I think that they are looking for pearls of wisdom from his book, that is strategy etc.. But businessmen are perhaps are more interested in looking for the qualities that Musashi had as a person by reading the book, ie- never lost a fight, was a skillful painter, was very successful in his field, dedicated, reflective, always tried to master things etc.. even go as far as saying he was a winner?
And I suppose every business person wants to be a winner or have atleast some of the internal qualities that Musashi had?

Mmmmm..... tough question!

[Confound]

The Book of Five Rings is a tremendous work, but it can be read like a horoscope, that is to say, you find what you want to see. There are so many things that are very vague in the book, possibly because of Japanese cultural ways of thought (or feeling, I would argue), so the astute literary critic or editor can pull out whatever they wish to find in the text.

It's like one of those essays you wrote for grade nine English about 'Lord of the Flies', or some other book forced upon you (in my case it was that dreadful piece of nonsense 'The Catcher in the Rye'), where you couldn't really see what the teacher was talking about (quite possibly because the teacher hadn't read the book, and was just making up things as she went along, as was the case with one of my TAs in university), so you did the same, and just made things up.

The beauty of imprecise writing is that it can be interpreted in a myriad of ways, but then again, that's what that detestable scourge called 'post-modernism' is all about. Thus: The Book of Five Rings is a horoscope. I predict that all Sattigarians willbe experiencing an Autumn Leaf strike this week, and Scorpios will have problems utterly crushing the minds of their enemies. On a more serious note, it's like an upgraded version of Yoda's tree. (sorry Mingshi) You find not only what you bring with you, but what you want to see as well.

c