HERO

[rickyoh]

this amazing film is finaly coming out 8/27
have you seen it?
what do you think?

you can check this out for trailors and clips
www.comingsoon.net/movies/h/hero.php

[Yann]

Just saw it on divx yesterday. It was pretty cool.
Some scenes made me think about Tai Chi Masters or Hidden Dragon Crouching Tiger... They're like flying, walking and jumping on water :P

I also watched Zatoichi and I liked it better, it was very good actually.

[taganahan]

will this be coming out in north america too?

seems like a combination of crouching tiger and matrix. they should have used chow-yun fat instead of jet li.

~taganahan

[rickyoh]

will this be coming out in north america too?
~taganahan


i don't know about canada.
it took it a very long time to get to the us.
tell me if you find out, interesting to know.

people have been waiting for this film for a very long time....

[Kote-Men]

Yes its coming out in North America.


Wow I really like that opening scene in the preview where he chops the wall and catches the cup of tea. He has to defeat three warriors: Broken Sword, Flying Snow, and Sky.

However the movie we want to see is, of course, Meet The Fockers :)

[taganahan]

lol. haha....gaylord focker from meet the parents. i liked that part where he and the father of her gf was at the grocery store and he was reading some magazine.

anyone know when HERO will be coming out in north america?

~taganahan

[moetl]

this amazing film is finaly coming out 8/27you mean coming out on dvd?

i saw the original version with caption in the cinema and at home. of course it was nicer in the cinema, but: wow. it's such a beautiful film! i like it very much. those pictures and fights are really amazing.

i like the scenery+fight at the lake best. this terrific landscape and these colours... ahhh :rolleyes:

hero is IMO much better than tiger and dragon.

[not-I]

Yeah, it was in the cinemas in Europe some time ago.

It's sort of a cross between a kung-fu epic and a surreal fantasy film. I enjoyed the fight scenes.

Hey Moetl! :chinese:
These kinds of films are typically over-the-top, but i felt Hero was FAR too overdone. It took itself too seriously. The color-coded "chapters" were a clever idea, but the realization was full-on kitch imo. The dialogues were tedius and i missed any sign of a sense of humor. And don't forget that it was a propaganda film (may not mean much to us, but using historical fiction to justify a brutal "unifying" tyrant says a heck of a lot to contemporary Chinese).

IMO, Tiger & Dragon was a better film on all levels. And it too was just a tribute to the old-school Chinese epics aimed at Westerners.

But no big deal, just the ramblings of an amateur film buff. The rest of you guys should see it and tell us what you think.

:wink:

[Yann]

The end is very disappointing btw

[mingshi]

I saw it last Xmas.

Zhang Yi-Mou did some REALLY GOOD drama films about contemporary Chinese culture in the 70's- 90's. He and his actress wife, Gong Li, used to frequent the Cannes ... so he should have done better on this one. I guess he is getting old and running out of ideas!!

Tony Leung and Maggie Cheung did better in In the Mood for Love... They have a lot of drama but the pace movie is too slow to highlight this. I almost fell asleep when Maggie Cheung comes up, because I know she can't fight!!

Jet Li... I think it's a waste if you put CGI with someone who already knows kung-fu.

As for the politically correctness, I personally think it was written to satisfy the non-chinese audience...

A few months ago in "Kenso" (AJKF official monthly magazine), the AJKF president wrote a few lines about this film, because it is a film about Ken. Well, there is a bit of intentional ken-zen statement (like, realization of what your weapon is, etc.), but that's it, nothing particularly inspiring...

For the rest, I am interested to know how foreigners think about a film that is made entirely FOR them. It is quite difficult for foreigners to understand, don't you think?

[LNGUYEN]

In Hero, there was talking about the ultimate of swordman, no sword in heart, mind, and hand. It talks sword and body are one which is just one level below ultimate path. In the meantime, the Kendo philosophy is that Ki Ken Tai Ichi is ultimate. If Kendo (generally) philosophy between Chinese and Japanese may different, then what is the ultimate goal of a swordman? We today in the modern time don't need to use sword as weapon, but I think it is probably importand for ancient people. So what do you think?

[taganahan]

modern swordsman(fencers, kendokas....etc) might say that the ultimate goal is to be the best and to win. i think that they might say that because a lot of them think that it is not an art but a sport. so naturally, people who are doing sports aim to win.

~taganahan

[not-I]

For the rest, I am interested to know how foreigners think about a film that is made entirely FOR them. It is quite difficult for foreigners to understand, don't you think?
I'm not sure about that. The themes were pretty universal - almost like Star Wars. Certainly some of the background must have been lost on many, but i doubt the western Sino-Japanese history/culture geeks (such as myself) missed much. I gather that the people who really had no clue what was going on in Hero would be the same ones that thought the soldiers were bowing down to Tom Cruise towards the end of Last Samurai (like in Apocalypse Now).

And since the western fascination with kung-fu flicks went mainstream and Asian filmmakers have jumped on the Western/Hollywood bandwagon, there's been a lot of stuff out there to see.

Although it was written for westerners, i did think the political message of Hero was blatantly obvious - sort of like "You had your Civil War too, so don't bug us about Tinanmen Square." I vaguely recall some web-blogs about that issue.

I found Ang Lee's approach interesting: from Eat Drink Man Woman to Sense & Sensibilty and Ice Storm, then back to Tiger & Dragaon, then The Hulk ?! :wink:

It talks sword and body are one which is just one level below ultimate path. In the meantime, the Kendo philosophy is that Ki Ken Tai Ichi is ultimate. If Kendo (generally) philosophy between Chinese and Japanese may different, then what is the ultimate goal of a swordman?
I think the reference is: once having achieved the oneness of sword and body or Ki Ken Tai Ichi, to transcend even the idea of an ultimate goal, i.e. to realize the total freedom of Wu-Wei of Dao/Ch'an/Zen. That's the reference, but i know nothing about the actual experience.

[Paburo]

For the rest, I am interested to know how foreigners think about a film that is made entirely FOR them. It is quite difficult for foreigners to understand, don't you think?

mingshi, i totally LOVED that movie. especially felt deeply identified with the character tony leung plays/broken sword.

probably because i do calligraphy(shodo) and sword arts myself(and my shinai/sword is always broken!! hahaha). i personally think the story has a LOT to do with the kendo/kenjutsu/bushido philosophy of 'mutekatsu'(無手勝つ), since all the story revolves around the sword(剣), war, rivality. unity and peace.

for those of you who are not familiar with the term, 'mutekatsu'(無手勝つ), ill tell you it means lit. 'victory with no hands'. but it is more often described as a 'peaceful victory', winning without the need to draw your sword or kill anyone. subarashii concept yo~!

visually speaking the movie is superb too. and zhang ziyi is a kickass hottie :D

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/sony_pictures_classics/crouching_tiger__hidden_dragon/zhang_zi_yi/tiger4.jpg

even with moustache!
http://zhangziyi.free.fr/Photos/pub/Zhang%20Ziyi%203.25%20FINAL.jpg

btw mingshi, know anything about the new zhang Yimou movie starring her and Kaneshiro Takeshi??

[moetl]

These kinds of films are typically over-the-top, but i felt Hero was FAR too overdone. It took itself too seriously.i liked it that way - the fighting scenes were just pure fantasy but i felt they were really aesthetic.
I gather that the people who really had no clue what was going on in Hero would be the same ones that thought the soldiers were bowing down to Tom Cruise towards the end of Last Samurai.in fact, i had no clue about the historical background - but i realized the soldiers were not bowing to tom cruise. so much about your theory ^^.
For the rest, I am interested to know how foreigners think about a film that is made entirely FOR them.i see what you mean. for foreigners who don't know about the chinese history this film is simply a story that is told very beautifully - at least it was for me. but if one tries to see it from the perspective of chinese people it's rather cynical to make such a film about the brutal unification of their country.

[taganahan]

weren't the soldiers bowing to the dead samurai leader....i think his name was omura? forgot about his name.


~taganahan

[not-I]

weren't the soldiers bowing to the dead samurai leader....i think his name was omura? forgot about his name.
Katsumoto, played by Ken Watanabe. And yes, of course. Or to his memory, rather.

Gosh, i didn't know that allegory was such a hot potato. All i really meant to say was that big-budget quality films like Tiger & Dragon, Last Samurai, or Hero are aiming for universal appeal. It doesn't matter whether we "understand" them or not, as long as we like them. But as all quality films, they can also be viewed on many different levels. Or not. :evolved:

[KoXinelle]

I saw that movie exactly one year ago and I had no idea about the existence of Kendo and I didn't know much about China history too.

I truly loved this movie when I saw it back then, not only for its artistical aspect but also for all the hidden details and the meanings behind them. I've been really anxious to see that movie again since I started Kendo. I can't wait for it to come out here !!

[rickyoh]

just found this, a new review of the film from the NYTIMES.
worth reading, has nice pics too...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/15/movies/15MACK.html

[rickyoh]

and another one that explains why you have to go see the film on the big screen
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040823-682258,00.html

[Legio]

This movie has been out for awhile but I guess... they are just releasing it into the mainstream. I especially liked the artistic component of this movie... the scene between Flying Snow (Maggie Cheung) and Moon (Zhang Ziyi) is especially effective. I don't want to ruin the movie for those who haven't seen it so I won't go into anymore detail. I just hope the original version was not changed too much... seeing it in Chinese (with English subtitle) is better in my opinion. The ending as well as the deeper meaning of the movie still puzzles me though (since I have no knowledge of Chinese history whatsoever).

[PhoenixProfile]

HERO..... Saw it last year and i didnt like it or understand the philosophy within it.... very Crouching Tiger slow motion flying style... I'm not a big fan i'll stick with a TVB series instead :wink:

[bullet08]

eye candy..

[T.Lee]

for any of you kurosawa film buffs, kudos to you if you can relate HERO to RASHOMON. its quite interesting when you compare em. youll have to see both movies to understand what im talking about.

[dorkusxmaximus]

i see the similarities between the two movies.

[Eiliries]

HERO was an awesome movie, but my opinion might be slightly biased since the movie featured both Jet Li and Donnie Yen *drools*

[SirFingerLickin]

You can buy the dvd for pretty cheap on ebay. I got it for $2. It actually came out to $9 since it came from China, but its really really great quality.

[Legio]

If you really want to watch the movie... just go to any Chinatown and there's a good chance someone will have it... at least here in Toronto they do.

[Haowen]

HERO was an awesome movie, but my opinion might be slightly biased since the movie featured both Jet Li and Donnie Yen *drools*

I've often wondered why Donnie Yen hasn't yet starred in his own feature movies for the Hollywood/international crowd. He speaks absolutely perfect slightly American accented English (i.e., much better than either Jet Li or Jackie Chan), and he has just as many martial arts moves. Absolutely kickass in Once Upon A Time In China 2.

[dorkusxmaximus]

that's really an interesting question. Donnie Yen is so much of a better MA too. I like his style.

[Eiliries]

And he is sooooo hot!!!

[Eiliries]

I've often wondered why Donnie Yen hasn't yet starred in his own feature movies for the Hollywood/international crowd. He speaks absolutely perfect slightly American accented English (i.e., much better than either Jet Li or Jackie Chan), and he has just as many martial arts moves. Absolutely kickass in Once Upon A Time In China 2.
That´s what I have been saying! He was insanely bad-ass in Iron Monkey, I am disappointed that it didn´t become mainstream.

[Washington]

Saw the movie this weekend.. i'd say great visuals.. loved the colors and how it was filmed.. the ending was rather anti-climactic though... i don't know why he didn't just dodge like he did earlier in the movie.. ah well.. good summer flick but sorta got the feeling the trailers for it was better than the actual movie

[Washington]

bah.. double post

[mingshi]

Zhang Yimou the director had a few films in 80s-90s critizing the contempory Chinese culture. You can check out "Raising the Red Lantern", "To Live", "Red Sorghum" and "Story of Qiu Zhu". All featuring his Cannes-award-winning-wife Gong Li. They all got banned in mainland China.

I have no idea how he came up with the ending in HERO. Seems like an inconsistancy in his auteuristic style...

[Shazzanzzz]

Zhang Yimou's newest movie, i think the english translation is 'gang of flying daggers' or something. Saw it in taiwan. Feels like he tried too hard in that movie, and the ending sucked. Also, the chinese title gives too much stuff away, i wasn't surprised at all through out the movie.

The visuals were amazing though, like Hero.

[taganahan]

the movie is finally playing here in canada. just saw the trailer last night.

house of flying daggers not gang....lol

~taganahan

[Erikku]

Personnally, I'd say I'm a bit disappointed by the movie. I like action-oriented movies to be a bit more fast paced. And as said Mingshi, you won't be pondering about great metaphysical symbiose between a man and his sword for very long after the movie (which is one of the mainstream idea the movie sells). So, not inspirationnal, not fast.

On the other hand, the movie is beautifully filmed and I'd say, if you're going to see it, it's worth it to see it in a theater, compared to my 14" TV screen. Plus, the girl who plays the young apprentice is really great (I'm not good with names). Great as in beautiful, good actress, and doesn't strike me as a surperficial being.

Just my two cents... and I know most might not agree... Please do not flame as this is my very humble opinion...

[dorkusxmaximus]

I liked the movie personally. It's way better than the stuff that's been out in theatres so far for this year. Well, maybe except for Spiderman 2 =P. The movie gave me something new to see. Okay, maybe I'm deprived of Chinese movies, so that's why, but the movie was pretty good compared to other movies realeased in theatres so far; thus, it's the number 1 movie in America :cool: . The ending wasn't so bad either. I just think he lost his reason to live after that.

[Andoru]

I like the movie myself. The plot is good. Too bad it wasn't as well casted. IMHO Maggie Cheung doesn't belong in a mandarin movie - her accent is quite bad.

[slidercrank]

I have very mixed feelings about this movie.

The cinematography was nice. The use of vivid colors was great. The plot development was interesting.

The very first fight scene with Sky was good. The subsequent fights began to drag. They seemed repetitive, and looked more dancing than fighting.

My biggest beef was with the English translation and the political undertone.

Unlike Mingshi, I believe the movie was firstly made for China's domestic consumption. And the English translation was then made for foreign propaganda.

In the English subtitle for the North American cinema release, the term "our land" was used. In Chinese, the term is "天下." Literally, it's "under the sky," but more abstractly, "all under the heaven." The Chinese term is full of old Chinese imperial grander. The Emperor is the son of Heaven, here to govern all land under the heaven. To translate this term as "our land" misses all the original context. Furthermore, the mistranslation gives the foreign audience the impression that even at 2500 years ago, the ancient Chinese people had this solidarity thing going. That was simply not true.

And the underlying message of the movie is this: unification is the most important thing for China, and if a tyrant king has to be supported for this goal, then so be it. This theme is applicable today more aptly than you can imagine. The China/Taiwan split has to be rectified. They must reunify for the good of China. To that end, the current ruler of China, the Chinese Communist Party (which, coincidentaly, can be quite tyrannical at times, too) must have our full support.

It's too much politics and subtle manipulation for me.

[Andoru]

Gee slidercrank you're one sensitive fella! :D

In my view, any political undertone is reminiscent of the times long past. I thought that Qin Wang's intention to unify China was stemmed from a utilitarian ideal which was to ease the sufferings of its citizens (the subjective context of "for the good of china")? Any resemblance to the current China/Taiwan situation is coincidental I would have thought, given the fact that Taiwanese citizens aren't exactly "suffering". But pardon me please I'm quite ignorant of these things.

[slidercrank]

I hardly think the Qin Kingdom's campaign grew from the king's altruistic desire to ease the suffering of all people under the heaven. This, by the way, was how it's portrayed in the movie. And this misrepresentation of history was quite annoying to me, too. In history, the Qin King was a ruthless ruler. Standard school history books are full of his horrific deeds. THe books do give him due credits for the unification and his subsequent standardization of the Chinese written language and measurements. But until this movie, I have never seen anyone trying to portray him in a benign way.

There is no hot war going on between Taiwan and China and this is dissimilar to the period that the movie is set in. However, the official Chinese government's tone on this issue has been growing steadily hawkish over the past decade. I don't think anyone told the director how to write the script, however, I'm sure the director was astute enough to realize his script would please those in power and ensure he would receive the full support of the state, which is still important and beneficial in present China.

Am I being overly sensitive? In 1996, China staged missile exercises wherein missiles flew over Taiwan and splashed in the seas off Taiwan's coasts. Things like that tend to get people's full attention. As that saying goes, "nothing focuses your mind faster than having people firing at you."

[Hai_hai]

I like the movie myself. The plot is good. Too bad it wasn't as well casted. IMHO Maggie Cheung doesn't belong in a mandarin movie - her accent is quite bad.
Yeah, I really hated her accent. It was really obvious in the sub-titles.

[Snobody]

Liked the color schemes.
I thought the point of the movie was to show that they (the assassins- or at least the male ones) were willing to subject all of China to the Qin kingdom's harsh rule because that was the only way all the inter-kingdom wars would be put to an end. While Qin wasn't trying to help the Chinese people, Jet Li and the other guy both realized that killing him would only continue the warfare and bring about more bloodshed. So they exchanged harsh, unified rule for an end to the fighting.
Were they trying to make him look benign? I thought the reason they wanted to kill him because he was evil.
Anyway, that's how my parents explained it to me because we saw it on DVD last night and it was in mandarin with chinese subtitles -big help for me, considering I can speak it only a little better than I can read it (I'm illiterate).
By the way, I'm in high school and just covered China last year- we didn't learn anything about the Qin's horrific deeds. Revisionist history, or inattentive student? I'll blame it on the horrid teacher.

[Haowen]

I have never seen a movie that degrades in interest as monotonically as this one. I was on the edge of my seat watching the first fight between Jet Li and Donnie Yen, and almost asleep by the time the blue coloured scenes take place (no I don't remember when in the movie it was, I was so totally tuned out).

I think the movie makes most sense viewed backwards. That way you get a gradual quickening of pace and interest, and the best fight as the final fight.

The protrayal of the Qin king as a kindly old man is about as ridiculous as portraying Adolf Hitler as Santa Claus.

[Washington]

By the way, I'm in high school and just covered China last year- we didn't learn anything about the Qin's horrific deeds. Revisionist history, or inattentive student? I'll blame it on the horrid teacher.
Teacher can only teach the material given to him/her. U.S. history books are censored and re-written per current political view just as bad. I failed high school U.S. history on purpose in open protest of the propaganda being forced down our throats. My teacher gave me a C just to pass me out of his class rather than make me come back next year even though I never turned any work in :)

[Vortex]

I enjoyed the whole thing myself... The best part for me was when Moon and Snow fought in the woods with the falling leaves and everything in red. Very moving. Its was the most beautiful thing I've seen in a long time. Four Shinais Up!

[PhoenixProfile]

Again ill say..... I wasted my cash buying this, this film is worth a big mac... would you like it super sized?

[kanyil]

well, if anything Zhang Yi Mou is certainly a master in creating *beautiful* scenes. There were quite a few truly stunning scenes in the latest "House of Flying Daggers". Although the plausibility of the plots in the movies may need a little tweak from time to time.

wrt "Hero" - it's a little disturbing to see how a dictator historically accepted as being one of the worst tyrants being portrayed as benign. although it is a fresh take on an old story. Further, it's just a *little* disconcerting from a Taiwanese perspective when the movie drums on about the virtues of unifying China when China's got 600+ missiles trained on you.

wrt "House of Flying Daggers" - it's truly a great film. have a look by all means. although avoiding the last 15 minutes may do wonders for your overall experience. (where Zhang Zi Yi simply refuses to die and got up no less than 3(?) times during the duel, despite the fact that the two dudes were slugging it out for hours). It's simply too ridiculous.

wrt "Gong Li" - I never knew she was married to Zhang Yi Mou?