Shinai Made Of Straw

[Spencer]

To Neil Gendzwill: My reply to you has taken long because you requested references on the Straw Shinai. Although I remember the reference, I also wanted to see it again in order to make certain it was there. But I could Not recover it, so I will at least tell you the title. It is THIS IS KENDO written by SASAMORI JUNZO. It is a later edition so I don't know whether the older edition includes the Straw shinai or not. I've also posted this as a Separate thread in hopes that another kendo respondent can provide an Image of a Straw shinai.

[Lloromannic]

I've spent the last 30 mins wading through google to no avail, I do not think pictures can be obtained.
However I also own This is Kendo (although I don't have it with me) and I do remember the reference to straw, but I recall it as saying that straw was used as a cushion (in a bag around the bokken?) instead of the shinai's main component.

[Nanbanjin]

I've spent the last 30 mins wading through google to no avail, I do not think pictures can be obtained.
However I also own This is Kendo (although I don't have it with me) and I do remember the reference to straw, but I recall it as saying that straw was used as a cushion (in a bag around the bokken?) instead of the shinai's main component.
I've been trawling Japanese web sites too but have drawn nothing but blanks.

Wasn't the straw shinai the one without a brain?

[Andoru]

Wasn't the straw shinai the one without a brain?
Bwahahahahahaha! :D

[Lloromannic]

Wasn't the straw shinai the one without a brain? Yes and Katanas have no heart.

[Nanbanjin]

My reply to you has taken long because you requested references on the Straw Shinai. Although I remember the reference, I also wanted to see it again in order to make certain it was there. But I could Not recover it...That's cause i ate it.

Baaaa.


P.S. I hope someone actually answers this poor guys question.

[reg]

did you click your hooves three times?

[mystic_kendoka]

did you click your hooves three times?
HAHAHAHAHA..


actually if the shinai made of straw existed, wouldnt it still need something to support it? then it would be a normal shinai but with a bit of padding..

[Nanbanjin]

did you click your hooves three times?
After I got back to Kansas I found another shinai made of straw, but this time the Big Bad Wolf came and blew it down. Should have made it out of brick like my big brother.

[reg]

After I got back to Kansas I found another shinai made of straw, but this time the Big Bad Wolf came and blew it down. Should have made it out of brick like my big brother.you're a goat! or you are a goat in denial..

btw, i do hope one of the replies would actually answer the question :rolleyes: maybe the people at ichini kai would know something about this? either that, or they'll just think "those crazy gaijins and their imaginations..."

[Neil Gendzwill]

You may have been confused by the use of the term "reeds" in the book, which seems like a word that didn't translate that well. Here's the relevant quotes from page 52 of the hardcover version:

"The new-style Shinai or fencing foil was made out of bamboo reeds."

Then 3 paras later:

"The first shinai was made by selecting soft reeds which were split into sixteen to thirty-two strips and covered with a heavy cloth."

I think the "reeds" in the second sentence is still referring to bamboo.

[Nanbanjin]

you're a goat! or you are a goat in denial..

I just like to fantasize about being a pig sometimes.

Oink oink!

p.s. I'll save the Ichinikai post for when the "ichi ni Kendo!(? - Kirin, I like this one best)" forum for off shore kendoists is up and running.

c.f. http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~ichini/bbs2/292574233449162.html

[Nanbanjin]

Not really what you were after, but....

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/shinai_sankou8.html

I can't work out how to add pictures like some of the other posters seem to be able to do. You'll have to make do with the links.

◆ Fukuro shinai (for karate use)

This is something I made at the request of a karate sensei.
It is used for training to handle opponents with staves etc. There are no distinct areas for holding or for hitting, so it is simply a straight shaft. It is 560g but it feels more weighty than this.
http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou8.jpg
This is a cross section of the end of the shinai. It is made from a tight bundle of eight pieces of bamboo.
http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou8_2.jpg

[Nanbanjin]

Short fukuroshinai
http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/shinai_sankou1.html

◆ Fukuro shinai (shohtoh)

This shohtoh shinai is of 47cm in length and 75g in weight.
If you look from the side you can see that it is curved. How old it is is unknown.

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou1_1.jpg

This shinai is made from a single piece of bamboo that has simply been split. The method of manufacture is different from modern shinai.

1. The bamboo is not split entirely. It is split only part of the way.

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou1_2.jpg
(Caption: cut in to the fourth notch)

2. Carve the tsuka to give it shape.

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou1_3.jpg

3. Apply heat and bend the shinai

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou1_4.jpg

4. Looking from the tsukagashira. Take the edges off the edges of the bamboo.

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou1_5.jpg
(Caption: Smooth the edges of the split bamboo)

There are also characters, that are thought to be the price, carved into the shinai itself.
http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou1_6.jpg

[reg]

waa, excellent work in digging up those pictures! thanks for sharing!

[Nanbanjin]

waa, excellent work in digging up those pictures! thanks for sharing!
Here's one I'm sure not many people will have seen before...



◆ Akatsuki "Hitokawa (sp?) model"

Mr. Hitokawa (sp?) from Kumamoto thought of this design based on the shinai of Yamaoka Tetsufune's (sp?) Mutohryuh shinai.
Some models are curved. Both curved and uncurved models are about 580-620g in weight and the tsuka is wide. Mr. Susumu (sp?) made this shinai keeping in mind "to make it easier to be aware that you are using a real sword".


http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou10_1.jpg
▲Straight model
http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou10_2.jpg
▲Curved model
(As featured in the September 2000 edition of "Kendo Japan")

See the following link for more samples...

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/shinai_sankou10.html

[Nanbanjin]

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/shinai_sankou3.html

◆ Suburitoh

Length 3 shaku 8 sun (115cm), weight 630g.
This was probably made as a suburitoh.

The shinai is made from 8 slats of bamboo. It feels lighter than it looks. Mr. Susumu (sp?) received this this shinai from a friend more than 30 years ago (when he was still deciding to go into shinai production). It had already coloured at that point.

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou3_1.jpg

So we can estimate that it was made 45-50 years ago.
This is a cross section of the kensen. You can see that eight slats of bamboo have been used.

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou3_2.jpg

[Nanbanjin]

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/shinai_sankou9.html (http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/shinai_sankou9.html)

◆ Special order super fat shinai (Akatsuki)
This shinai belongs to Mr. Saitoh of Saitama prefecture.
The shinai was made in response to Mr. Saitoh's request for a shinai that could be used to help develop smooth wristwork and "kirikaeshi" of techniques.
There are 3 shaku, 5 sun length models and 3 shaku 9 sun length models. They are quite heavy at 730g and 800g respectively. The bamboo used is very thick.

We are planning to make a shinai for Mr. Saitoh from "Mohsohdake" that is over 1kg in weight.

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou9_1.jpg

▲3 shaku 9 sun model

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou9_2.jpg
▲3 shaku 5 sun model

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou9_3.jpg
▲3 shaku 9 sun model next to a standard Akatsuki shinai

http://at80.jp/akatsuki/sankou/sankou9_4.jpg
▲3 shaku 5 sun model next to a standard Akatsuki model

The above are cross sections of the end kensen compared with a standard "Akatsuki" model. You can see how unusually thick the bamboo is.

[Nanbanjin]

I found this post that I did a while back. I think I translated it from somewhere. I'll repost because my post count is the size of my epeen.

Origin of "Shinai"
Very brief history of Shinai

The word Shinai is written 竹刀　in Japanese. Normally this would be pronounced Chikutoh, but for kendo the reading is Shinai.
The explanation for this is that the word Shinai comes from Shinae, which is in turn derived from the verb shinau( 撓う ) (http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%A4%B7%A4%CA%A4%A6&kind=jn&mode=0&je.x=26&je.y=12), to bend.
In the past Shinai has also been written as 撓, 品柄, 革刀, 竹袋, 順刀 and 試合刀.

The characters 竹刀 were originally used in reference to practice blades used in spear training. In this case the reading "chikutoh" was used, not "shinai"

Kendo shinai were originally made from a single length of bamboo split into 32 strips which were completely covered in leather or cloth. This was known as "fukuro-shinai" ( 袋竹刀 ), the word "fukuro" meaning "bag".
Eventually the sakigawa, nakayi, tsuru and tsuka-gawa of the modern shinai were added. The word "Shinai" remained to describe this training weapon, and the word "fukuro" was dropped. The characters 竹刀　were retained to represent the Shinai that we train with today.

[reg]

i know of a guy who teaches in japan, and he uses a particularly fat shinai. it is probably as fat as a dobari shinai, but it's the same thickness practically from the tip, to just above the tsuka where the tsuba would rest. reason being, he does mukae-tsuki. normal shinais wouldnt last very long with him, hence his special thicker shinai to withstand the constant abuse of having throat slamming onto the shinai..

[not-I]

This is an awesome thread.
I loved the "reeds" and the ◆ Special order super fat shinai !
Spencer, thanks for kicking this off and giving it a super fat title! :grin:

A couple questions:

I read in Draeger Vol.2 that a furkuro shinai was a "mock sword covered with leather and cloth."

Was this the original furkuro shinai or just one particual type?

Did it feature any "stuffing" between the leather and bamboo, such as straw?

What does "furkuro" mean anyway?

Thanks.

[Neil Gendzwill]

What does "furkuro" mean anyway?
fukuro not furkuro. Look 3 posts up from this one.

[not-I]

fukuro not furkuro. Look 3 posts up from this one.
Doh!

Thank you.

But was there ever any "stuffing" in the bag?

[Lloromannic]

On the topic of non-standard shinai, how about this (http://kendo.tozando.com/shinai/s06.html) ones (http://kendo.tozando.com/shinai/s05.html), Tozando sells them but they don't have any description of their purpose, I've looked in google but nothing came up.¿ so I thought this was a good place to ask.

[ben]

These shinai are for receiving uchikomi geiko, sometimes called shinai geiko. Used by a instructor who's not wearing men in order to allow giving instruction at the same time. Also good for receiving uchi komi geiko from children because the height can easily be adjusted for each child.

b