Hearing Problems

[munenmuso]

Is it true that to much bad hits on the men especially on the sides of it can cause hearing problems?Particularly the strong whacks next to the ears?

Or is there a degree of damage to your eardrums?I've been noticing that my hearing diminished quite a bit since I've been hit several times on said part of the men.

This guy, a newbie in bogu, hit me sometimes ago on the side of the men when i bend my headon the sides to avoid it.He hit me so strong,with lack of control, that i literally saw stars during that time.

If only kendo can kill.

[alexpollijr]

Yes, I'm not a doctor but I believe that yokomen strikes and brutal shomen ones can cause certain damage. Yokomen because it can hit the eardrums, and shomen ones for the 'ringing ears' effect.

[S. Takamori]

To avoid any problem and especially physical problems like these hearing troubles, please be aware that you must fit your men correctly (please ask for teaching to your teacher!) and try to correct as soon as possible your opponents way of hitting. Not all blow on the head are "men-uchi". Here also, ask for advice to people who really have good experience in kendo practise.

S. Takamori

[JSchmidt]

"when i bend my headon the sides to avoid it.He hit me so strong,with lack of control"

If you move your head sideways, in order to avoid getting hit, it's your fault that you are getting hit on the ears.

Jakob

[munenmuso]

Well sometimes I can't avoid to move my head sideways due to cirmcustances, I can't help it especially if an opponent is very fast and there is not enough time to parry a shomen when your sword is too way low after parrying a Do hit. This is part of our reflex(I assume not a bad one). Alexpolli mentioned the 'ringing ears effect' even in a simple Shomen cut so what can I do to avoid it?

Or it's just the quality of my men which produces too much resonance around it?

[JSchmidt]

It is a bad reflex and is considered 'bad form' to some extent. For shiai's it's ok, but for others (ji-geiko, shinsa, etc), just accept the hit.
Similar if you just block....by many, that's considered 'losing' as you were unable to do anything against the opponents attack.

Jakob

[Confound]

One of my senseis is a doctor by profession. He actually wears earplugs when he practices kendou. it makes it damned near impossible to communicate with him, but he's leading the practice anyway, so when he speaks, you generally nod thoughtfully or MOVE.

Instead of using the thick, reusable plastic ones like he does, try using the disposable spongy type. Just remember to dispose of them. ear infections can cause just as much damage as inept men strikes.

c

ps - you may also want to instruct the newbie to stop swinging from his shoulders. in my experience, limited though it is, many beginners try to execute a men strike largely with their shoulders, rather than using their elbows, wrists and hands. Those kinds of strikes generally don't come back up, they tend to follow an arc right down to the floor. anyway, protect your ears. you only get two after all.

[Hyaku]

munenmuso wrote:

Is it true that to much bad hits on the men especially on the sides of it can cause hearing problems?Particularly the strong whacks next to the ears?
...........
I would have said that any hits to the head eventualy cause hearing problems. A lot of older sensei wear hearing aids as a result of damage.

Hyaku

[munenmuso]

Hyaku,

I can't hear you well but at least I can read your message loud and clear.Are you saying that too much kendo especially those extensive ones will inevitably or eventually lead to hearing problems. So those who have been playing kendo for a long time,say twenty years, have hearing problems compared to those who do not.

[ben]

"ps - you may also want to instruct the newbie to stop swinging from his shoulders. in my experience, limited though it is, many beginners try to execute a men strike largely with their shoulders, rather than using their elbows, wrists and hands. "

Confound it's not so much which muscles the beginner uses as how much muscle that is the problem. It is not incorrect to use the shoulders, in fact it is more correct than bending the elbows. What is lacking is an appreciation that they are using a sword to cut with, not a stick to hit with. In my experience if you start talking biomechanics their brains go into meltdown because someone just told them something completely different 5 mins ago. Better just to say "lighter, lighter." Failing that, demonstrate on them what they are doing on you (especially effective if they're not wearing men yet) .

Re injuries - I have tinnitus (constant ringing in the ears). I don't know if this is from kendo or from years of techno. The causes of tinnitus are so various (impact, loud noise, red wine, aspirin, common cold, etc, etc) it's impossible to know but I suspect kendo has played a large part. Interestingly I had my hearing tested and I had no actual hearing loss. As for prevention? All I think you can do is try and minimise the damage, as Hyaku mentioned. But we're talking over a lifetime here. And at least you can do kendo that long. I mean how many people do you know are actively training in karate or judo in their seventies?

b

[David J]

Originally posted by Confound
Instead of using the thick, reusable plastic ones like he does, try using the disposable spongy type....... protect your ears. you only get two after all.

This would imply that it is the volume of the strike that is the damaging factor - subjectively its never felt that loud to me. Would it protect against a blow to the ear though? And I have had the ringing ear thing (probably from an ill-fitting Men) from correctly landed Shomen blows - which seems to imply it is a general head-trauma thing, that it seems unlikely that plugs would help with...:confused:

<rei>

Dave

[munenmuso]

Will it help if they innovate the materials of the men to absorb strong impact and distribute the shock throughout?

[Ares2907]

One of the main problems with blows to the side of the head is if the fabric of the men seals around the ear at time of impact. The resultant pressure on the inner ear can cause a rupture in the membrane (which is why you should fold that part of your men outwards from eye-level).

[hobbit]

One of the students at my old dojo stopped training after he actually had an eardrum ruptured by a poor yokomen. I met him a few years after this happened when he restarted training, he was permanently deaf in that ear.

[munenmuso]

Hobbit,

I'm sure your friend is somewhat traumatized from that experience and we don't want that thing to happen to us. In addition, what precautions does he takes to prevent the same from happening again to his other ear?

And how does it affects his performance during training?


munenmuso

[Kendoboy]

two things....

1) when hitting men ( or anything else for that matter, you are not swinging an axe. It's more like ringing a bell (forget who I should quote for this). The shinai is meant to represent a sword, which must slide along the target to cut, not whack it.

2) try wearing your tenugui so that it covers the top part of your ears. That way, the material of the men won't seal around the ears, and it helps to absorb some impact.

[Hyaku]

Originally posted by munenmuso
Hyaku,

I can't hear you well but at least I can read your message loud and clear. Are you saying that too much kendo especially those extensive ones will inevitably or eventually lead to hearing problems. So those who have been playing kendo for a long time,say twenty years, have hearing problems compared to those who do not.

Yes... the constant being hit damages the small bones in the ear. Then again if you are going to stand in Motodachi for years its not surprising. If its a total beginner you are teaching kiri kaeshi to, its expose the head and duhhh hit me here. At least as we teach higher levels we can lay off the yoko cuts.

These people train daily. Just as I leave for work in the car I always put my hand up to Sensei who is just walking home after asa-geiko.

As you get close to my old dojo you can here the kids that have already started. Fumikomi echoes outside. But also the pwack, pwack, pwack, as some kid lays is on. Makes you cringe to hear it.

As Ares2907 says there is the possiblity of men acting like drum skin over the ear. That's why its important to bend and get new equipment into shape. Get a nice curl on the men wings that angles well down from the back. As you put on the men and tie it, slip the hands inside the men below the ears and give it that final tug OFF the ears. Also you have made a nice air vent in the sides.

Hyaku

[Kendoka]

A Sensei in my village (7DKyoshi, 83 yo) was deafened many years ago, in both ears by being struck on the side of his head by badly mis directed men cuts. (Of course no-one would do it on purpose !?)

Their are techniques mentioned above by Ares and others that help to minimise the pressure on the ear drum when a badly aimed men cut lands.

Another one is to - after the men is on, tied correctly and secure, then expand the men, or pull the sides out a bit, where it flows over your ears so that there is a small gap between the men tame and the ear.

Richard ... eh

[David J]

If people are becoming permanently deaf from Kendo, this is a pretty unequivocal reason for the Men to evolve into something that does its job properly. Our lives dont depend on doing Kendo, but the quality of our lives may be seriously reduced by hearing loss (including in my case losing my career if I had deafness in one ear...). Maybe this is a fairly rare occurence (not that you'd think it from reading this thread), but nuts to tradition - the Men should protect your head. The bending out thing probably helps, but I wonder if the deafened guys did that too though? You'd think a sensei would know to do so. :confused:

Sorry for the rant....

<rei>

Dave

[hobbit]

munenmuso - to answer your question, he protects his hearing by no longer training: not exactly what we want. There are few enough kendoka, at least in UK, without us decimating ourselves.

[Kendoka]

The 83 yo still trains, but he now wears hearing aids !

R:

[Kendoka]

The 83 yo still trains every week, but he now wears hearing aids !

R:

[munenmuso]

Deja vu in the thread...:)