Kissing Kendoka

[Lester]

Whilst in shiai why do they hug eachother face to face and stand there for like 2 minutes.? Can't one of them just jump back and start fighting again?

[Kote-Men]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Kote-Men]

Here's a good site:

http://www.rain.org/~galvan/rules.txt

[Potti]

Lester-san, the two are in tsuba-zeriai or tsuba to tsuba. One is able to score points by hiki-waza (where one strikes whilst retreating). If other does not pay attention closely, easily the point is taken.

[Andoru]

Most misleading thread title eva!!

[Kichigai]

+1.

Yeah, I thought this was totally about something else

[taganahan]

and you people wanted to see it, right?....lol

~taganahan

[YAMAFELL]

kissing isn't a bad thing.. too bad the smell bogu makes it unable to get close enough to people.. men will get in the way too.. but yeah.. no one wants to make a move that will put them in harms way.. so they stay close. but instead of being kissing kendoka it should be snuggling kendoka.. as the thread link...

[Kmav]

Whilst in shiai why do they hug eachother face to face and stand there for like 2 minutes.? Can't one of them just jump back and start fighting again?
DUH! Because we are trying to show some love! Remember, once you cross swords, you're friends!

PS: lol...in the future, please do not make me drool with misleading thread titles! :confused2

[tapioka]

(o_O)

I was about to say--how the heck is that possible with a men grill in front of your face? couldn't help but being curious. XD

[Gohan-kun]

hah... I had an image of two people sitting seiza next to each other at a tournament, waiting to go up, and smoochin' while cheering their teammate on :rolleyes:

[wickedhavoc]

LOL.....I guess everyone was fooled like I....I was about to say what weird demented thing did we come up with now.

[kenshin13]

I'm a bit disapointed...lol.

[Nanbanjin]

kissing isn't a bad thing.. too bad the smell bogu makes it unable to get close enough to people.. men will get in the way too.. but yeah.. no one wants to make a move that will put them in harms way.. so they stay close. but instead of being kissing kendoka it should be snuggling kendoka.. as the thread link...

Next time you're in tsuba-zeriai try touching tongues. That's about as close as you'll get.

[KotatsuSama]

This Kissing Kendoka is a new technique. It is soley developed for Tsubazeriai. In it, one Kendoka attempt to actually kiss the other thereby making it extremely uncomfortable for the opponent. It also confuses the opponent and 40% either knocks them off balance or they withdraw leaving room for a clear kote-uchi or possibly do-uchi.
From the Chuudan no Kamae bring your Shinai up parallel with men and lock Tsuba with opponent. With your back foot push your upper body forward and lean into the tsubazeriai but don't yield or lose balance. Next look your opponent in the eyes and smile lovingly. Then lightly loosen your grip to allow you to move in closer and attempt to pucker your lips and get close to your opponent.
Congradulations, you have just performed the キス剣道家鍔迫り合い技 (Kisu-Kendouka-Tsubazeriai-Waza)

-Kotatsu

[tapioka]

I don't know if I'd be scared...more like "disturbed" would be the correct word for it. (=_=);;

[Lloromannic]

Congradulations, you have just performed the キス剣道家鍔迫り合い技 (Kisu-Kendouka-Tsubazeriai-Waza) I might add that it works especially well if you are male and the other person is an insecure-about-his-heterosexuality (macho) person who smells of 10 day old sweat and has a huge moustache. However I would only recommend using this powerful waza in a very important shiai as it will lead to a very awkward situation with the opponent afterwards.

[KotatsuSama]

One note this Waza has a serious flaw. If the opponent is an attractive member of the opposite sex you will most likely fail in the exectution but might score a date afterwards. Use at your own risk.

-Kotatsu

[KotatsuSama]

This waza has a serious flaw. If the opponent is an attractive member of the opposite sex there is a 75% chance that this technique will fail but there is a 40% chance of scoring a date after the bout.
-Kotatsu

[Lloromannic]

This waza has a serious flaw. If the opponent is an attractive member of the opposite sex there is a 75% chance that this technique will fail but there is a 40% chance of scoring a date after the bout.
Unless you are pig-ugly, in which case she will say immediatly withdraw from tsuba zeriai and attempt to make an L with her fingers while saying "I mean, like hellooo?". This is the perfect moment to strike.

[KotatsuSama]

However with this there is a small chance you will lose your temper and throw the shinai at him/her which may result in expulsion from the Dojo.

Again, BE CAREFUL when using this waza!

PS: The above (first) post came from a Server error, it said it didn't go through so I posted again but it did... -_-

-Kotatsu

[tapioka]

(continues to be scared and disturbed) (o_O);

although, if I saw this waza in action during jigeiko or something, I'd probably get quite a good laugh out of it. :D

[kanyil]

the actual execution of the KKT Waza will be especially difficult if the other kendoka, as the result of jigeiko, has buggers/snot hanging out of their nose.

[Lloromannic]

the actual execution of the KKT Waza will be especially difficult if the other kendoka, as the result of jigeiko, has buggers/snot hanging out of their nose.
I just thought of another waza: sneezing in tai-atari with maximum snot expulsion.

[Lost Soul]

LMAOLMAOLMAO.......well, I thought it was funny....

[aikanaro]

:D LOL!!....

... anyway if Kisu-Kendouka-Tsubaseriai-Waza doesn't work to score a point maybe youl'll score anyhow... :) ... now that's tsubaseriai no tomodachi waza !! :P

[Wifenmummy]

very funny! hmm yes well that will be one thing i try out when i get all the gear... think i will hang onto kendo and see how i go... :)

[senki-kendo-jos]

Believe me... the sweat is the worst part about kissing another kendoka... my boyfriend does kendo too and he doesn't exactly taste good after kendo... mind you, we both looked like crap! Hard jigeiko and kakarigeiko does that to ya!

[Infinity]

I just thought of another waza: sneezing in tai-atari with maximum snot expulsion.eeeewwww! isnt the smell bad enough?

[Twobitmage]

Actually I thought it meant when you get your shinai knocked out of your hand and you have to "hug" in order to get the chance to pick it back up

[Lloromannic]

eeeewwww! isnt the smell bad enough?
No, you must make sure that the other person is completely digusted or he might react.

[Ezmarelda]

I've heard some varrying definitions of zanshin from spirit, to energy, ect.. but sex appeal is a new one. I might just try that... but then again perhaps i'll hold off on that one.:wink:

[Infinity]

Actually I thought it meant when you get your shinai knocked out of your hand and you have to "hug" in order to get the chance to pick it back upthis is what my sensei teaches us though he doesnt call it kissing. you hug your opponent when you loose your shinai so they dont get to hit you and gain a point. they have around 5 seconds to hit you before the judges call time and a restart. most people i have seen dont go for the hit but wait until the shinai is picked up. i guess there is no honour in the cheap shot but a quick hug will negate a strike.

[Lloromannic]

this is what my sensei teaches us though he doesnt call it kissing. you hug your opponent when you loose your shinai so they dont get to hit you and gain a point. they have around 5 seconds to hit you before the judges call time and a restart. most people i have seen dont go for the hit but wait until the shinai is picked up. i guess there is no honour in the cheap shot but a quick hug will negate a strike.
What the original poster referred to as "kissing" is tsuba zeriai. Not when you drop your shinai. Hugging the opponent is also bad taste in my opinion. Simply touching him or his shinai with your hand is enough for the match to stop.

[Infinity]

What the original poster referred to as "kissing" is tsuba zeriai. Not when you drop your shinai. Hugging the opponent is also bad taste in my opinion. Simply touching him or his shinai with your hand is enough for the match to stop.i stand corrected on the subject of the original post. i went with the flow.

i didnt know about the 'simply touching' rule. i will keep it it mind as i dont enjoy the idea of hugging a sweaty opponent. why do you think hugging your opponent is in bad taste? is it just the sweat and the smell thing?

[Lloromannic]

i didnt know about the 'simply touching' rule. i will keep it it mind as i dont enjoy the idea of hugging a sweaty opponent. why do you think hugging your opponent is in bad taste? is it just the sweat and the smell thing?

I don't know the shiai regulations by heart yet but Ican remember that grabbing the opponent or his shinai stops the match and you get a hansoku for it. Hugging is a form of grabbing the opponent. Just an excessive one in my opinion. Still if push comes to shove then I would probaby grab the opponent if it was a desperate situation (WKC final encho). By the way only gra the other one if it is in shiai. In jigeiko just take the hit.

[kanyil]

From watching the 2000? kyoto embu, I believe it's acceptable to grab your opponent's tsuka with your right hand while stepping to your opponent's left side if you lose your shinai. Of course it must be done gracefully. You will still get a hansoku for losing your shinai though.

[Andoru]

This topic has been discussed in depth in another thread (with plenty of input from the senseis). I don't believe that hugging, or any actions involving physical contact is ever condoned. In fact, I think it's been mentioned that you risk getting penalised for bad sportsmanship when you do that.

[Infinity]

This topic has been discussed in depth in another thread (with plenty of input from the senseis). I don't believe that hugging, or any actions involving physical contact is ever condoned. In fact, I think it's been mentioned that you risk getting penalised for bad sportsmanship when you do that.

mmm. must tell my sensei that.

[Andoru]

Don't quote me on that of course. I am no sensei. Try to look for that thread.

[m_french]

Simply touching him or his shinai with your hand is enough for the match to stop.

Touching the shinai with your hand will earn you a honsoku....unfortunately i speak from experience.

[Kendo-Militia]

Touching the shinai with your hand will earn you a honsoku....unfortunately i speak from experience.
You not only grabbed his shinai but you broke it at the same time.

[Neil Gendzwill]

This topic has been discussed in depth in another thread (with plenty of input from the senseis). I don't believe that hugging, or any actions involving physical contact is ever condoned. In fact, I think it's been mentioned that you risk getting penalised for bad sportsmanship when you do that.
The short of it is, if you drop your shinai you're going to get a hansoku. You might lose a point if the aite can get a good one in before yame is called. You can prevent the point by grabbing your opponent, which may also penalised by hansoku. But the judges won't give you two hansoku. So grabbing the opponent in that situation is a smart thing to do.

[Old Warrior]

Touching the shinai with your hand will earn you a honsoku....unfortunately i speak from experience.
Recently, I covered my opponents shinai with the shoto and cut men, only to have him let go of his shinai with his right hand and block my men cut. I was so stunned, I just laughed. But, seriously, I assume this is a foul that results in some penalty.

[m_french]

You not only grabbed his shinai but you broke it at the same time.
I did not break the Sensei's shinai when I batted it out from under my Men.....I broke it much later in the match! and by the way I did not get a Hansoku for breaking his shinai because everyone was still in shock by the time he replaced it and we resumed play.............. for this and more crazy kendo stories please buy our book...."Just Win Baby" dos and don'ts of Kendo Competition and Etiquette from Venice Dojo! $49.95 from simon and schuster.

[Andoru]

The short of it is, if you drop your shinai you're going to get a hansoku. You might lose a point if the aite can get a good one in before yame is called. You can prevent the point by grabbing your opponent, which may also penalised by hansoku. But the judges won't give you two hansoku. So grabbing the opponent in that situation is a smart thing to do.
Is it ethically acceptable?

[Lloromannic]

Touching the shinai with your hand will earn you a honsoku....unfortunately i speak from experience.
Yes but the match stopped didn't it?


Is it ethically acceptable?
Ethics are subjective and personal so there is no such thing as an unethical action in itself it is only us who percieve it that way.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Is it ethically acceptable?
Why not? If it were real swords, you'd probably do something like that (get inside the maai and grapple) as a desperation act. As it's shiai with bamboo swords, it's just smart use of the rules. It's not like you're knocking the guy out of bounds to get a point, you're just saving your own butt. Sometimes knowing how to not lose is important.

[Halcyon]

Hugging is a form of grabbing the opponent. Just an excessive one in my opinion. Still if push comes to shove then I would probaby grab the opponent if it was a desperate situation (WKC final encho). By the way only gra the other one if it is in shiai. In jigeiko just take the hit.Have to disagree with this opinion. Even in jigeiko, go ahead and hug your opponent, or at a minimum, stand face to face with him/her with no space between you. If you just stand there doing nothing, at many dojos you are going to get your men smacked REPEATEDLY until you damn well pick up your shinai or hug your opponent. This is the difference in attitude of kendo as a sport and kendo as a budo.

[Lloromannic]

Have to disagree with this opinion. Even in jigeiko, go ahead and hug your opponent, or at a minimum, stand face to face with him/her with no space between you. If you just stand there doing nothing, at many dojos you are going to get your men smacked REPEATEDLY until you damn well pick up your shinai or hug your opponent. This is the difference in attitude of kendo as a sport and kendo as a budo.
I certainly quickly grab my shinai after the other person hits me. But not everyone has the need to keep on beating a dead horse. I don't think that not hitting an unarmed and defeated opponent means that I think Kendo is a sport and not a budo. In fact rushing in so the other person doesn't get the point instead of being "chastised" for dropping my shinai and reflecting on why did I drop it and how to avoid it is more competitive and sports like to me.

[kensin]

For you deeply enlightening insight on winning is not everything and losing is nothing, here is my humble quote:

When we do not seek to contend, we know there is neither winning or losing.

Allow me to express the mathematical relationship between your view and my view and show ow these two view do not need to be inconsistent.

Lemma (1)

So the value of random events are, as you states:

Let "winning" dsitributed on interval [0, +infinity]; when "winning" is something it equals a positive number, when "winning" is nothing (though it does not have to be) it equals 0.

losing = 0

Lemma (2)

then when one dose not seek to contend, for him, an outcome of any contention is free of the concept of "winning" or "losing". In other words, for one does not seek to contend, the notion of "winning" or "losing" is void.

So the probability of the random occurrence "winning" is 0.

So does the probability of the random occurrence "losing".

Now, put Lemma (1) and (2) together,

For one who does not seek to contend, his value from going into a contention is, and always is,

V = Prob{winning}* Value of winning + Prob{losing}*value of losing = 0

which is exactly equal to his outside option when he does not go into a contention.

This man is indeed indifferent between contending and not contending.

This man is indeed indifferent between winning and losing.

The result of my calculation confirms its own assumption.

____________________________

A mathematical proof, hope you like it.