Kumdo vs. Kendo

[Kozushi]

I trained hard in Kumdo in Korea for a year (every morning from 6-7:15 am). It is EXACTLY the same as Kendo here in Canada except for two things:
1. They use Korean names for the target areas during keiko
2. They require aspiring shodans to learn the Bon-gook-gum-bup ancient solo Katana sword Kata that dates from the Shilla dynasty (1st millennium A.D.) and which was recorded in several printed books in the 18th Century.

By the way, everyone I knew in Korea who did Kumdo recognized that it is of course a Japanese-created sport, but they are all very cognizant of the role Korea played in introducing sword-smithing to Japan; so they feel (and I think they have a right to feel) that their nation had a role to play in the foundation of Kendo.
Kendo is CRAZY popular in Korea! You wouldn't expect it to be, with the expense of the equipment and all (although the price of new Bogu is coming down quite fast over there). Kendo is the 2nd most popular martial art over there!!! Taekwondo is first of course. Judo and Hapkido hover around the 3rd and 4th positions.
In casual conversations amongst the Kendo guys I hung out with, they called each other 'Samurai'. They wouldn't have done this if they thought that Kendo is primarily a Korean martial art.
By the way, the Japanese came from Korea during the 1st millennium A.D. anyways. They are all one family.

[airbag22]

Good post, I've definitely been noticing an anti-kumdo/korean trend going on in some peoples posts and its nice to have things put into a bit of perspective

[Nazo]

I trained hard in Kumdo in Korea for a year (every morning from 6-7:15 am). It is EXACTLY the same as Kendo here in Canada except for two things:
1. They use Korean names for the target areas during keiko
2. They require aspiring shodans to learn the Bon-gook-gum-bup ancient solo Katana sword Kata that dates from the Shilla dynasty (1st millennium A.D.) and which was recorded in several printed books in the 18th Century.

By the way, everyone I knew in Korea who did Kumdo recognized that it is of course a Japanese-created sport, but they are all very cognizant of the role Korea played in introducing sword-smithing to Japan; so they feel (and I think they have a right to feel) that their nation had a role to play in the foundation of Kendo.
Kendo is CRAZY popular in Korea! You wouldn't expect it to be, with the expense of the equipment and all (although the price of new Bogu is coming down quite fast over there). Kendo is the 2nd most popular martial art over there!!! Taekwondo is first of course. Judo and Hapkido hover around the 3rd and 4th positions.
In casual conversations amongst the Kendo guys I hung out with, they called each other 'Samurai'. They wouldn't have done this if they thought that Kendo is primarily a Korean martial art.
By the way, the Japanese came from Korea during the 1st millennium A.D. anyways. They are all one family.

nice post, although your title for your thread is quite misleading(...well for me it is). I agree on somethings you've said especially korea playing a role in the development of kendo, however the japanese did not originate or come from korea....., besides koreans are of mongolian descent, the japanese are of chinese descent.

[Taek]

Yes, that was a nice thread. I'm korean and played Kumdo before but I still learnt so many new things about Kumdo from this Kozushi San's thread. I'm currently playing kendo but one thing I realised from playing both forms....regardless which one we play, we are all trying to achieve the same thing at the end.

[taiwnezboi]

nice post, although your title for your thread is quite misleading(...well for me it is). I agree on somethings you've said especially korea playing a role in the development of kendo, however the japanese did not originate or come from korea....., besides koreans are of mongolian descent, the japanese are of chinese descent.

I thought Koreans and Japanese were both from China?

[KHuang]

I think they should change to kumdo-world.com.

[Kozushi]

The Japanese came fron Korea, not China. However, they mixed with the native Ainu people, even when they were killing them off, so there is a great deal of Ainu culture preserved in Japan that makes Japan distinct from Korea.

I came across a few interesting anecdotes today while reading the Muye Dobo Tongji. This book of martial arts was written in 18th Century Korea by the King's scholars. It states that Japanese swords are 'miraculous', and that Japanese swordsmen are invincible. I should add that the book includes several Japanese sword kata. You see, even back then, Koreans didn't pretend to have anything over the Japanese in swordsmanship.
Now, archery is a different matter: the Koreans seem to have considered themselves the best in the world at it. Mind you, back in Shilla times, when Korea was in a constant state of war, I'm sure there were many highly skilled swordsmen.
For the Korean warriors versus Japanese samurai, read "Samurai Invasion: Japan's Korean War 1592-1598" by Stephen Turnbull.

[Nazo]

The Japanese came fron Korea, not China. However, they mixed with the native Ainu people, even when they were killing them off, so there is a great deal of Ainu culture preserved in Japan that makes Japan distinct from Korea.

I came across a few interesting anecdotes today while reading the Muye Dobo Tongji. This book of martial arts was written in 18th Century Korea by the King's scholars. It states that Japanese swords are 'miraculous', and that Japanese swordsmen are invincible. I should add that the book includes several Japanese sword kata. You see, even back then, Koreans didn't pretend to have anything over the Japanese in swordsmanship.
Now, archery is a different matter: the Koreans seem to have considered themselves the best in the world at it. Mind you, back in Shilla times, when Korea was in a constant state of war, I'm sure there were many highly skilled swordsmen.
For the Korean warriors versus Japanese samurai, read "Samurai Invasion: Japan's Korean War 1592-1598" by Stephen Turnbull.Hey Kozushi I hope we dont have to get into a long debate on about your
say on the japanese orginating from Korea.--so Peace! I'm sure and undoubtedly the people of china and japan and korea long before and up until now have some of their country men and women mix and cross-breed/ing with each other.....,and since they are neighboring countries to each other, they have had cultural & technology exchanges and ...etc..etc..and also undeniably both Korea and Japan have strong ties to China, one good example is the chinese characters used by all 3 countries is one major aspect that proves this. There are so "little real or accurate records" on histories of korea, written or translated in english, heck there are even language books for korean to english that are not sooo accurate. So unless you can read and write hangul like me, there's bigger chances you are being misled by some edited twists in history (sadly)like most people (unknowingly, too). Plus, fortunately I've access to some old records of korean history(in korean), I'm also well aware of the old kingdoms of Shilla(as you've mentioned), Baek-je and Koguryo, means your not the only one doing (extensive??!)research. Also have you ever sat in a korean history class in Korea?! If so then you wouldnt have any thoughts on japanese having come from korea, Koreans orginated from Mongolian Descent, japanese are not of mongolian descent. Its funny cause all the korean nationals I know who ofcourse studied their own history acknowledge that they are of Mongolian descent....ask any (knowledgeable in history)Japanese if they are of Mongolian descent or worse Korean descent..see what answer you'll get,
I doubt you'll get your desired answer of the one favoring your side of the story....also that goes for most japanese people including all my japanese senseis in kendo and judo, tell or ask them and they'd tell you off man, honestly!

There's also a study on japanese having come from Sichuan(chongqing) a place in CHINA(NOT KOREA), cause thier local people
there have always had japanese like features, even the sharp nose attribute that the japanese have and thats not common in
other asian races. The most ethnic koreans dont have this feature.

So the japanese did not come from korea (/or vice versa). Maybe you can technically saythat the japanese came from korea.....by meaning that the "japanese people crossed (by travelling) the korean penninsula from china to get to Japan", ---and thats not being sarcastic(but take it as
you want it, c'est comme vous-voulez!).

P.S. I also have and read - Samurai Invasion: Japan's Korean War 1592-1598" by Stephen Turnbull. ^^

[Kingofmyrrh]

There are of course a number of theories about who came from where, but the most widely accepted is that modern japanese people are descendants of korean immigrants. The jomon people (thought to be predecessors to the ainu) were the indigineous race, but people from the continent (yayoi) pushed them to the north. If you look at artifacts from the time that the yayoi were though to have arrived, there are various pieces of evidence that they came from the korean peninsula. One example is that from around 500(ish)AD, pottery in kyushu and western honshu began to be produced with the same techniques and markings that had been used in korea for many generations previously.
There are other theories, such as kebaron (horse rider theory), which I quite like although acknowledge as pretty unlikely, but most historians appear to believe that the yayoi, the most significant ancestors of the modern japanese people, were of korean descent.

[Kozushi]

Hey Kozushi I hope we dont have to get into a long debate on about your
say on the japanese orginating from Korea.--so Peace! I'm sure and undoubtedly the people of china and japan and korea long before and up until now have some of their country men and women mix and cross-breed/ing with each other.....,and since they are neighboring countries to each other, they have had cultural & technology exchanges and ...etc..etc..and also undeniably both Korea and Japan have strong ties to China, one good example is the chinese characters used by all 3 countries is one major aspect that proves this. There are so "little real or accurate records" on histories of korea, written or translated in english, heck there are even language books for korean to english that are not sooo accurate. So unless you can read and write hangul like me, there's bigger chances you are being misled by some edited twists in history (sadly)like most people (unknowingly, too). Plus, fortunately I've access to some old records of korean history(in korean), I'm also well aware of the old kingdoms of Shilla(as you've mentioned), Baek-je and Koguryo, means your not the only one doing (extensive??!)research. Also have you ever sat in a korean history class in Korea?! If so then you wouldnt have any thoughts on japanese having come from korea, Koreans orginated from Mongolian Descent, japanese are not of mongolian descent. Its funny cause all the korean nationals I know who ofcourse studied their own history acknowledge that they are of Mongolian descent....ask any (knowledgeable in history)Japanese if they are of Mongolian descent or worse Korean descent..see what answer you'll get,
I doubt you'll get your desired answer of the one favoring your side of the story....also that goes for most japanese people including all my japanese senseis in kendo and judo, tell or ask them and they'd tell you off man, honestly!

There's also a study on japanese having come from Sichuan(chongqing) a place in CHINA(NOT KOREA), cause thier local people
there have always had japanese like features, even the sharp nose attribute that the japanese have and thats not common in
other asian races. The most ethnic koreans dont have this feature.

So the japanese did not come from korea (/or vice versa). Maybe you can technically saythat the japanese came from korea.....by meaning that the "japanese people crossed (by travelling) the korean penninsula from china to get to Japan", ---and thats not being sarcastic(but take it as
you want it, c'est comme vous-voulez!).

P.S. I also have and read - Samurai Invasion: Japan's Korean War 1592-1598" by Stephen Turnbull. ^^
I read and speak Korean too.
The Japanese did indeed come from Korea.

[kendokamax]

I was told that japanese emperor familly came from korea -

freak teacher at IBU used to talk about it all the time, blablabla

[Kozushi]

Japanese and Korean languages are both very closely related to Mongolian, and also related to Finnish and Turkish. They are part of the Ural-Altaic family of languages.
It is a very well establish fact that the Japanese came from Korea.

[Kirin]

Kozushi,
Maybe you should complain CKF and have them change history of kendo section on their website.
Including your governing organization, 97.72% of IKF members acknowledge that kendo was originated from Japan. (IKF has 44 affiliated countries)


This topic is sooo old...... :redface: :old_man: :redface:

[Nazo]

hey hold on now Kirin,
Kozushi actually does acknowledge that kendo originated from japan,
you should read his topic carefully at the start of this thread. (just he
has the wrong choice of subject title for his thread, quite misleading yes..)

unfortunately having stayed in korea for some time has earned him a biased point of view (siding on koreans) of the origination of japanese coming from korea.But I guess in this point of view people could very well say that kendo was invented by koreans since japanese are of korean descent as Kozushi here states in his posts???!!!

as for Kozushi, ural-altaic etc.etc(yes it exists but a category invented by who?).....you think too much in western(maybe a bit of korean but surely biased) sense while trying to understand or study ASIAN histories.
I suggest you dig up resources from chinese books/materials also (afterall they are a lot older than korean resources).

So once again japanese are of chinese descent.

[Nanbanjin]

hey hold on now Kirin,
Kozushi actually does acknowledge that kendo originated from japan,
you should read his topic carefully at the start of this thread. (just he
has the wrong choice of subject title for his thread, quite misleading yes..)

unfortunately having stayed in korea for some time has earned him a biased point of view (siding on koreans) of the origination of japanese coming from korea.But I guess in this point of view people could very well say that kendo was invented by koreans since japanese are of korean descent as Kozushi here states in his posts???!!!

as for Kozushi, ural-altaic etc.etc(yes it exists but a category invented by who?).....you think too much in western(maybe a bit of korean but surely biased) sense while trying to understand or study ASIAN histories.
I suggest you dig up resources from chinese books/materials also (afterall they are a lot older than korean resources).

So once again japanese are of chinese descent.

Somebody please wake me up when this is over...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... ..........................

[DanDan]

this topic is so confusing...

[Nazo]

aye! it be confusing indeed....

[Andoru]

I love it when historians fight. :D

[reg]

how did it come to this. a historical discourse of the origins of koreans and japanese... i thought it would be the usual "i'm-doing-the-better-art-and-you-know-jack" kind of argument.

Somebody please wake me up when this is over...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... ..........................
a good probe will wake you up!

[satoshi]

Recent studies by the National Institute of Genetics in Japan suggests that at least part of what we today know as Japanese are closely related to people living in Korea.
http://www.nig.ac.jp/museum/evolution/D/dna-11.html
This study divides Japanese into three broad ethnic groups in Japan, Hondo-jin (mainland Japanese), Ryukyu-jin (from the south), and Ainu-jin (minority aborigine people in the north) - today's Japanese is a hybrid of people from various origins. The research claims that the DNA pattern of mainland Japanese and people in Korea are very similar, and much closer to each other than with people in China.

Of course we know that genetic research on race and ethnicity is always controversial...

[Hai_hai]

...Kendo is CRAZY popular in Korea! You wouldn't expect it to be, with the expense of the equipment and all (although the price of new Bogu is coming down quite fast over there). Kendo is the 2nd most popular martial art over there!!!
I didn't know that.
Just out of curiosity, I hear that there is more than one school/association of kumdo in Korea. Are all kumdo schools equally recognized by the IKF? Do the kumdoist who compete in the World Championships come from dojangs of one school/federation or all?

[Kozushi]

Almost all Kendoka in Korea are fully registered under the IKF based in Japan.
There are some fringe schools, but they are not very popular (even if they make a lot of noise internationally).
There is a kind of Korean Iaido called Haedong Kumdo. This is not affiliated with the IKF, and it isn't really Kendo anyways: it is more like Kenjutsu/Iaido. It is an imaginary reconstruction of old sword techniques found in several old Korean martial arts books. Actually, some of these guys would be quite scary to fight with if using real swords: I've seen some do pretty incredible things with their swords. However, this is something seperate from 'pure' Kumdo, which is universally acknowledged by Korean to be Japanese.
Koreans LOVE Japanese Kendo, probably more than the Japanese themselves do! It is hugely fashionable to do Kendo in Korea! They know it is a Japanese activity! However, they feel a little closer to it than say, an Englishman would, since Korea and Japan share virtually the same culture and language and the Japanese came from Korea around the 4th Century A.D. (just like the Germanic tribes came to England around that same time, bringing with them Germanic culture from the mainland and pushing the Celts to the fringes but at the same time adopting loads of Celtic culture: like Christianity for instance). Also, historically, swords and other items were traded back and forth, so many Koreans owned Japanese swords thoughout history. The Koreans know that the Japanese swords were the best and therefore were highly prized by their ancestors. The Koreans know that their ancestors were masters of the BOW while the Japanese were the undisputed masters of the SWORD. Everyone there knows that! It is taught as a basic part of their history in history class!

If I was Japanese, I would be PROUD that part of my culture is so popular in another country! I would definitely NOT feel threatened by it!!!

[DanDan]

^ so does that mean that you keep your grade if you switch from kumdo to kendo? since 90% of kendoka/kumdosa(?) are registered under IKF...or did i misunderstand?

[Eldritch Knight]

That's the general impression that I got. My current instructor (a Korean) trained up to his 2nd Dan in Korea and had it instantly recognized when he moved to the states. He even went to shiai as a 2nd Dan.

[Kozushi]

Yes, the grades are the same: it's all just Japanese KENDO.
It's all the same thing exactly.

[Andoru]

I've read somewhere that there are other kumdo associations not linked to IKF. If grades were awarded by them, would they be recognised by the IKF? I think not.

[Old Warrior]

Yes, the grades are the same: it's all just Japanese KENDO.
It's all the same thing exactly.

I am taught by Koreans, mostly in Korean and the name of the school is:

KENDO ACADEMY SUNG MOO

[Lloromannic]

I've read somewhere that there are other kumdo associations not linked to IKF. If grades were awarded by them, would they be recognised by the IKF? I think not. It is on the front page of the Kendo World Magazine. (Black ships of kendo). Brilliant article.

[litige]

Yes, the grades are the same: it's all just Japanese KENDO.
It's all the same thing exactly.

I can believe that. But when I hear that the coach of the Korean team in the WKC broke some thing in protest,are unsportsman, that they use velcro hakama and that it's more a sport-thing, my heads get dizzy. So his there more pure "Kumdo-Kendo" in Korea than sportish Kumdo I heard of?

[bullet08]

i'm full blooded korean. no mix in any way from chinese or japanese that goes back couple of hundred years. yes most korean people keep record of their ancestry.

korean people of 'pure' blood line will have blue birth mark on their butt when they are infants. i had it, and my two sons have/had it.. along with large number of koreans that i know. this birth mark goes away as they grow older.

not sure if japanese people have that birth mark. from what i was told in korea, this is distinct mark of mongolian gene.

pottery that is found in japan doesn't prove anything. it's written in korean history, japanese will occationally come to korean to pick up pottery and kidnapp people who are skilled at making pottery.

as far as kendo/kumdo is concerned.. who are we kidding? yes.. like IKF says every country has/had their own form of swordsmanship.. but, who started using bogu as we know it today? with rules and regulations that we use? kendo/kumdo is written in chinese character simply saying "blade way" or "sword way". this really doesn't say much. however, the form of kendo/kumdo we practice is japanese. any other argument is simply stupid, and being bull headed.

being korean, i try to side with korea as much as possible. but some of the things we koreans do and say are just simply stupid it boggles my mind.

[Lloromannic]

I can believe that. But when I hear that the coach of the Korean team in the WKC broke some thing in protest,are unsportsman, that they use velcro hakama and that it's more a sport-thing, my heads get dizzy. So his there more pure "Kumdo-Kendo" in Korea than sportish Kumdo I heard of?
The coach of the Korean team was very frustrated and angry at what he percieved as a massive injustice, it's quite easy to say that is incorrect but when you look at it from his point of view you can understand it. His team was on the verge of making history by beating the japanese. His taisho was in control of the match (Eiga looks very tired) and then the opposing player gets awarded a point for a somewhat dodgy tsuki.

As for the unsportiveness of the Koreans. After the Korean taisho sees the flags go up he doesn't protest, he goes back to the start line, kamae and sonkyo.

[taiwnezboi]

The coach of the Korean team was very frustrated and angry at what he percieved as a massive injustice, it's quite easy to say that is incorrect but when you look at it from his point of view you can understand it. His team was on the verge of making history by beating the japanese. His taisho was in control of the match (Eiga looks very tired) and then the opposing player gets awarded a point for a somewhat dodgy tsuki.

As for the unsportiveness of the Koreans. After the Korean taisho sees the flags go up he doesn't protest, he goes back to the start line, kamae and sonkyo.

Exactly.. the tsuki wasn't perfect at all

[Nanbanjin]

The coach of the Korean team was very frustrated and angry at what he percieved as a massive injustice, it's quite easy to say that is incorrect but when you look at it from his point of view you can understand it. His team was on the verge of making history by beating the japanese. His taisho was in control of the match (Eiga looks very tired) and then the opposing player gets awarded a point for a somewhat dodgy tsuki.

As for the unsportiveness of the Koreans. After the Korean taisho sees the flags go up he doesn't protest, he goes back to the start line, kamae and sonkyo.

Yeah, sure. That taisho was a perfect example of moral integrity. What prison is he in again?

[Kirin]

Yeah, sure. That taisho was a perfect example of moral integrity. What prison is he in again?
8 more alleged rape cases and 3 assult cases still pending for Kim :smoker:

[taiwnezboi]

Yeah, sure. That taisho was a perfect example of moral integrity. What prison is he in again?

the post wasn't about his moral integrity, it was about his sportsmanship?

is it not possible to respect someone's skill without respecting their personality / character? I don't really care what kind of people my instructors are outside of the dojang.. I just care about their Kumdo skill.. not that it was right for Mr. Kim to do the stuff he did but I still respect his skill as a Kumsa

[Nanbanjin]

the post wasn't about his moral integrity, it was about his sportsmanship?

is it not possible to respect someone's skill without respecting their personality / character? I don't really care what kind of people my instructors are outside of the dojang.. I just care about their Kumdo skill.. not that it was right for Mr. Kim to do the stuff he did but I still respect his skill as a Kumsa

Just stirring the pot.

In Australia gang rape seems to be an integral part of sports culture in the NRL at least.

By the same token, if you get put inside for rape in Australia you are fair game for "somewhat dodgy tsuki" from the other inmates.

The point is that in Kendo there is no recourse for disputing points. Once a point is awarded that's that. By IKF rules you cannot dispute the point so any degree of flag snapping or head tilting is pointless. Did the Korean coach not know the rules?
As for the tsuki, it looked pretty good to me. I've seen people lose the AJKC by worse points than that. A good example was the 1996 AJKC. It was won by Miyazaki with a kote that was about 20cm off target. Replays showed it clearly. Nobody batted an eyelid. No official complaints. Nothing.
To restate the point, in kendo, by IKF rules, there is no recourse for disputing points awarded during shiai.

[KhawMengLee]

I can believe that. But when I hear that the coach of the Korean team in the WKC broke some thing in protest,are unsportsman, that they use velcro hakama and that it's more a sport-thing, my heads get dizzy. So his there more pure "Kumdo-Kendo" in Korea than sportish Kumdo I heard of?

He broke the coach flag(sorta like the red flag the shimpans carry). I still have it as my official WKC souviner;)

[KhawMengLee]

the post wasn't about his moral integrity, it was about his sportsmanship?

is it not possible to respect someone's skill without respecting their personality / character? I don't really care what kind of people my instructors are outside of the dojang.. I just care about their Kumdo skill.. not that it was right for Mr. Kim to do the stuff he did but I still respect his skill as a Kumsa


A pity...he was a real nice and friendly person to talk with...I suppose his autographed white ribbon from the final will be a bizzare collectors item now;)

[Stefan]

I don't really care what kind of people my instructors are outside of the dojang.. I just care about their Kumdo skill..
You don't care what kind of people your instructors are in their private life? How do you train together? Do you just say "hello" and start bashing their heads? Don't you even try to get a slight relationship with your instructors or comrades by asking them what they have done during the last practice or where they plan to go for vacation? Doesn't it really affect you training with - just an example, I don't know anything concerning the korean taisho - a guy who resorts to violence when he doesn't like the meal his wife made for him or who peculates money from his company?
Please read the Concept of Kendo and the Purpose of Practicing Kendo:

The Concept of Kendo
The concept of Kendo is to discipline the human character through the application of the principles of the Katana (sword).

The Purpose of Practicing Kendo
The purpose of practicing Kendo is:
To mold the mind and body,
To cultivate a vigorous spirit,
And through correct and rigid training,
To strive for improvement in the art of Kendo,
To hold in esteem human courtesy and honor,
To associate with others with sincerity,
And to forever pursue the cultivation of oneself.
This will make one be able:
To love his/her country and society,
To contribute to the development of culture
And to promote peace and prosperity among all peoples.
(The Concept of Kendo was established by All Japan Kendo Federation in 1975.)
Of course one can debate about this, especially if one is not from japan or is a member of another federation.
I for myself would call my instructors and comrades in question if I knew they had done something criminal or antisocial. If one has good skill but has a bad character, something is wrong with his kendo.
Thanks for reading,
Stefan

[taiwnezboi]

You don't care what kind of people your instructors are in their private life? How do you train together? Do you just say "hello" and start bashing their heads? Don't you even try to get a slight relationship with your instructors or comrades by asking them what they have done during the last practice or where they plan to go for vacation? Doesn't it really affect you training with - just an example, I don't know anything concerning the korean taisho - a guy who resorts to violence when he doesn't like the meal his wife made for him or who peculates money from his company?
Please read the Concept of Kendo and the Purpose of Practicing Kendo:

The Concept of Kendo
The concept of Kendo is to discipline the human character through the application of the principles of the Katana (sword).

The Purpose of Practicing Kendo
The purpose of practicing Kendo is:
To mold the mind and body,
To cultivate a vigorous spirit,
And through correct and rigid training,
To strive for improvement in the art of Kendo,
To hold in esteem human courtesy and honor,
To associate with others with sincerity,
And to forever pursue the cultivation of oneself.
This will make one be able:
To love his/her country and society,
To contribute to the development of culture
And to promote peace and prosperity among all peoples.
(The Concept of Kendo was established by All Japan Kendo Federation in 1975.)
Of course one can debate about this, especially if one is not from japan or is a member of another federation.
I for myself would call my instructors and comrades in question if I knew they had done something criminal or antisocial. If one has good skill but has a bad character, something is wrong with his kendo.
Thanks for reading,
Stefan

Maybe I worded it poorly. I care what they're like but it doesn't affect how I view their Kumdo. I view the two separately. So, even if they're not the greatest person outside of the dojang, if they're good at Kumdo and they teach me something I'm going to listen to them. If Mr. Kim gave me some pointers about my Kumdo I would listen to him. He was great at Kumdo. It's just a shame he wasn't such a great person.

[Hai_hai]

Yeah, sure. That taisho was a perfect example of moral integrity. What prison is he in again?
The last time people went bashing on that issue, they were banned from this forum.

[Stimpson J. Cat]

korean people of 'pure' blood line will have blue birth mark on their butt when they are infants. i had it, and my two sons have/had it.. along with large number of koreans that i know. this birth mark goes away as they grow older.

not sure if japanese people have that birth mark.
Many, probably most do (all my kids did), but I don't think all do, anybody know whether people of Chinese descent have similar marks in infancy?

[Lloromannic]

It is perfectly possible (as exemplified by mr. Kim) to be a shining paragon of virtue in one area and be a complete swine in another.
Idf it's alright with you I would like to stopdiscussion of this topic before it degenerates into a harmful argument.

[Future Head]

korean people of 'pure' blood line will have blue birth mark on their butt when they are infants. i had it, and my two sons have/had it.. along with large number of koreans that i know. this birth mark goes away as they grow older.

not sure if japanese people have that birth mark.

Umm, I hate to sound like a culturally insensitive Westerner, but I'm pretty sure that "blue birth mark" has something to do with innoculations shortly after birth. A former girlfriend who was born in Taiwan is similarly decorated, and told me many Taiwanese have a mark or a dimple from a doctor or nurse's improper use of a syringe.

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Umm, I hate to sound like a culturally insensitive Westerner, but I'm pretty sure that "blue birth mark" has something to do with innoculations shortly after birth. A former girlfriend who was born in Taiwan is similarly decorated, and told me many Taiwanese have a mark or a dimple from a doctor or nurse's improper use of a syringe.
This isn't a dimple or a needle mark, more of a blotch or blotches, sometimes quite large. On one of my kids you couldn't have covered it with your hand. My wife had a Japanese book on newborn care which had pictures of some of these "birth marks" which covered pretty much the kid's whole back, butt and back of the thighs. They also fade out over time, usually being gone by the time the kid reaches about 3 or 4 years old. I'm guessing what you are talking about is more along the lines of the permanent mark sometimes left by a smallpox vaccination.

[Karaken]

This isn't a dimple or a needle mark, more of a blotch or blotches, sometimes quite large. On one of my kids you couldn't have covered it with your hand. My wife had a Japanese book on newborn care which had pictures of some of these "birth marks" which covered pretty much the kid's whole back, butt and back of the thighs. They also fade out over time, usually being gone by the time the kid reaches about 3 or 4 years old. I'm guessing what you are talking about is more along the lines of the permanent mark sometimes left by a smallpox vaccination.This is something called "Mongolian Spot" - Koreans are very closely related to Mongolians ( That of Ghingis Khan - so natually some Japanese are of same blood and Chinese as well ). However, the spot isn't limited only to Mongolians.. See the definition below. ( But I never saw or heard this being applied to non-Asians )

A Mongolian spot is a normal bluish-green or bluish-gray flat birthmark that is found in over 90 percent of Native American, Oriental, Hispanic, and black babies. They are also seen in 10 percent of Caucasians, especially those of Mediterranean descent. They occur most commonly over the back and buttocks, although they can be present on any part of the body. They vary greatly in size and shape. They have no relationship to any disease. Most fade away by 2 or 3 years of age, although a trace may persist into adult life.

[jsar1]

I'm thinking about joining the Kendo acadamy by my house and the master is korean. Is there a differance between korean and japanease teachings of kendo such as differant morals, technique ect.

[007]

I do not intend to offend anyone (koreans) on this forum but this is just an observation... koreans are always complaining to the public and the judges at whatever sport/event they are competing. Examples include the Soccer world cup, the recent olympic gymnastic event and of course, the kendo event you guys were talking about. Again, i mean no harm, just something i picked up on.

[taiwnezboi]

I do not intend to offend anyone (koreans) on this forum but this is just an observation... koreans are always complaining to the public and the judges at whatever sport/event they are competing. Examples include the Soccer world cup, the recent olympic gymnastic event and of course, the kendo event you guys were talking about. Again, i mean no harm, just something i picked up on.

because they judge us unfairly at tournaments a lot of times.. our dojang doesn't go to Cleveland tournament (or any other Japanese tournaments that I know of) anymore because they never want to acknowledge points that our players make.. it's not all of the judges but many of them are like that

[007]

what taiwnezboi said might very well be true and I certainly sympathize the koreans if that is indeed the truth. However, with so many judges with so many nationalities, it is hard to believe that the world has all turned against the koreans

[Lloromannic]

what taiwnezboi said might very well be true and I certainly sympathize the koreans if that is indeed the truth. However, with so many judges with so many nationalities, it is hard to believe that the world has all turned against the koreans
Here in Mexico City foreigners are not well liked in the slums (which are places to rival the worst ghettos). In the specific cases of the far east and although they couldn't tell a japanese from a vietnamese there is special prejudice against Korea. Chinese are not liked because they can make the products cheaper and with comparable quality and people lose jobs. Japanese are not liked because of envy and ignorance. But Koreans are not liked because they are Koreans.

[Kirin]

because they judge us unfairly at tournaments a lot of times.. our dojang doesn't go to Cleveland tournament (or any other Japanese tournaments that I know of) anymore because they never want to acknowledge points that our players make.. it's not all of the judges but many of them are like that

Maybe your dojang's judging criteria, yukou-datotsu, is diffrent from majority of AUSKF affiliated dojos. :wink:

[taiwnezboi]

Maybe your dojang's judging criteria, yukou-datotsu, is diffrent from majority of AUSKF affiliated dojos. :wink:

well if it were different how did we sweep Cleveland a few years back when we went?

[Pokie]

A long long time ago, just a few hundreds of years from the evolution of man from the missing link, cave men started making clubs to kill each other, then they started making axe's and knives out of flint stone then they moved on to the metal age, they started making swords out of copper, battles were won and fought, humans started to migrate to china, then korea..then japan..where ultimately katana were made then voula...kendo started and now we're playing it. Let's thank our primate ancestors for defending their species, enabling themselves to immerse in a period evolution, and making it possible for us to hold a shinai in our hands.

[GrandCentral9]

I do not intend to offend anyone (koreans) on this forum but this is just an observation... koreans are always complaining to the public and the judges at whatever sport/event they are competing. Examples include the Soccer world cup, the recent olympic gymnastic event and of course, the kendo event you guys were talking about. Again, i mean no harm, just something i picked up on.Okay... recent examples of other nations complaining about judging at sporting events (off the top of my head):

Italy in the Korea/Japan World Cup
Spain in the Korea/Japan World Cup
Portugal in the Korea/Japan World Cup
Canada in the Salt Lake Winter Olympics (figure skating judging, although admittedly, their allegations were correct)
US in the Athens Olympics (basketball, gymnastics, you name it)

I'm sure there are plenty more. Everyone complains about bad judging. Everyone believes they were subject to bad judging. To single out a country/people as being more prone to complaining is simple ignorance.

[Nanbanjin]

Okay... recent examples of other nations complaining about judging at sporting events (off the top of my head):

Italy in the Korea/Japan World Cup
Spain in the Korea/Japan World Cup
Portugal in the Korea/Japan World Cup
Canada in the Salt Lake Winter Olympics (figure skating judging, although admittedly, their allegations were correct)
US in the Athens Olympics (basketball, gymnastics, you name it)

I'm sure there are plenty more. Everyone complains about bad judging. Everyone believes they were subject to bad judging. To single out a country/people as being more prone to complaining is simple ignorance.

In kendo you don't complain. I've seen bouts in the All Japan Championships that have been decided with hits that were miles off target. Nobody complained. Commentators watching the hits in slow motion were like "the're Miyazaki's kote", while the shinai clearly hit the forearm.

At the last Australian championships I saw a bout where the Shushin called "Yame", then one of the competitors hit a men cut, and then the same Shushin called "Ippon". The match ran out of time and the victim of the bad call lost. This is an extreme example, but the loser did not complain. Well, he complained to me, but understanding that in kendo you can't reverse decisions and that there is no recourse for making official complaints he didn't raise his concerns with the officials. Because he couldn't. Get it?

[Nanbanjin]

well if it were different how did we sweep Cleveland a few years back when we went?
It's improper to gloat over victories.

[Lloromannic]

At the last Australian championships I saw a bout where the Shushin called "Yame", then one of the competitors hit a men cut, and then the same Shushin called "Ippon". The match ran out of time and the victim of the bad call lost. This is an extreme example, but the loser did not complain. Well, he complained to me, but understanding that in kendo you can't reverse decisions and that there is no recourse for making official complaints he didn't raise his concerns with the officials. Because he couldn't. Get it?
At the Mexican nationals the president of the federation made a long speech about how we should not complain about judging.
Then he personally (as shimpan) made some very "fishy" calls always in favour of the team he was head of. No one said anything in public but pretty much everyone (even his team) agreed that he was cheating.
However when before one match between a member of his team and my sensei he whispered something to the time keeper and then when the other person makes a kote on my sensei (a very good one admittedly) the time keeper declares the match over 2:52 into a 5 minutes match. That was a bit too much so a formal complaint was made and by decision of the judges table the match was ordered to resume except the other person did not want to come back as he had "already won" eventually he came back and wenton to lose.
I think judging should not be argued with but this was a bit too much.

[Nanbanjin]

At the Mexican nationals the president of the federation made a long speech about how we should not complain about judging.
Then he personally (as shimpan) made some very "fishy" calls always in favour of the team he was head of. No one said anything in public but pretty much everyone (even his team) agreed that he was cheating.
However when before one match between a member of his team and my sensei he whispered something to the time keeper and then when the other person makes a kote on my sensei (a very good one admittedly) the time keeper declares the match over 2:52 into a 5 minutes match. That was a bit too much so a formal complaint was made and by decision of the judges table the match was ordered to resume except the other person did not want to come back as he had "already won" eventually he came back and wenton to lose.
I think judging should not be argued with but this was a bit too much.

I am not sure of the precise rules, but I think while the match is still running a player can question a point regarding the rules (not whether a hit was on target, but if there is the case of the rules not being followed correctly).
I don't think that your Sensei would have really lost anything by letting the other guy win the match. Would you respect him less for that? The only way to solve the problem you have described is to grin and bear it for the next 20 years or so until you are in a position of authority yourself and then make damn sure you don't do the same kind of thing. Ideally you would institute rules that prevented people from presiding over matches where they have a conflict of interest, which is close to impossible if you are the member of a small federation. The problem is that the opportunity for corrupt behaviour exists in the first place. It's too messy to worry about the specific incidence of corruption once it's happened.

[DanDan]

At the Mexican nationals the president of the federation made a long speech about how we should not complain about judging.
Then he personally (as shimpan) made some very "fishy" calls always in favour of the team he was head of. No one said anything in public but pretty much everyone (even his team) agreed that he was cheating.
However when before one match between a member of his team and my sensei he whispered something to the time keeper and then when the other person makes a kote on my sensei (a very good one admittedly) the time keeper declares the match over 2:52 into a 5 minutes match. That was a bit too much so a formal complaint was made and by decision of the judges table the match was ordered to resume except the other person did not want to come back as he had "already won" eventually he came back and wenton to lose.
I think judging should not be argued with but this was a bit too much.wow...that's dirty....

[007]

U.S. men's basketball never complained, they admitted that they suck and willingly took the bronze metal

[Lloromannic]

I am not sure of the precise rules, but I think while the match is still running a player can question a point regarding the rules (not whether a hit was on target, but if there is the case of the rules not being followed correctly).
I don't think that your Sensei would have really lost anything by letting the other guy win the match. Would you respect him less for that? The only way to solve the problem you have described is to grin and bear it for the next 20 years or so until you are in a position of authority yourself and then make damn sure you don't do the same kind of thing. Ideally you would institute rules that prevented people from presiding over matches where they have a conflict of interest, which is close to impossible if you are the member of a small federation. The problem is that the opportunity for corrupt behaviour exists in the first place. It's too messy to worry about the specific incidence of corruption once it's happened.
He was not a judge at that particular match but the time-keeper was.
And in my opinion by letting him have his way he would have been encouraged to do the same.

[Nanbanjin]

He was not a judge at that particular match but the time-keeper was.
And in my opinion by letting him have his way he would have been encouraged to do the same.

Sadly the shiai failed to be a meaningful the moment external influence was involved.

[Lloromannic]

Sadly the shiai failed to be a meaningful the moment external influence was involved.
Indeed. I think much of it was resentment against Mexico City as for many years the president of the federation was always from here and the teams that competed were by clubs not by states as it is now and this caused that the number of participants from Mexico City vastly outnumbered the other states which caused the national team to consist of people from Mexico City.

[mero]

Wow, that is pretty igorant and prejudiced on your part. I understand your intent but nonetheless the ignorance and prejudice in your comment is unacceptable.

What you wrote is a reflection of YOUR misperception due to increased sensativity to your belief that "Koreans are always complaining". At almost EVERY international sports competition, ESPECIALLY soccer, olympics complaints are rampant. EVERY single soccer event has teams and fans crying wolf. Every olympics, including this one, there are medal disputes and arbitration for settling such disputes! This year's olympics was the first Korean medal dispute ever.

Koreans complain as much if not less than others. Who COUNTS the race, nationality of complaints anyways to form uneducated stereotypes against ALL Koreans anyways???

I do not intend to offend anyone (koreans) on this forum but this is just an observation... koreans are always complaining to the public and the judges at whatever sport/event they are competing. Examples include the Soccer world cup, the recent olympic gymnastic event and of course, the kendo event you guys were talking about. Again, i mean no harm, just something i picked up on.

[mero]

This was NEVER taiwnezboi's claim. WHen has ANYONE in this thread claimed someothing as ridiculous as what you're suggesting???

Has anyone claimed that the world has turned against koreans? ANyone?

what taiwnezboi said might very well be true and I certainly sympathize the koreans if that is indeed the truth. However, with so many judges with so many nationalities, it is hard to believe that the world has all turned against the koreans

[Kendo-Militia]

I trained hard in Kumdo in Korea for a year (every morning from 6-7:15 am). It is EXACTLY the same as Kendo here in Canada except for two things:
1. They use Korean names for the target areas during keiko
2. They require aspiring shodans to learn the Bon-gook-gum-bup ancient solo Katana sword Kata that dates from the Shilla dynasty (1st millennium A.D.) and which was recorded in several printed books in the 18th Century.

By the way, everyone I knew in Korea who did Kumdo recognized that it is of course a Japanese-created sport, but they are all very cognizant of the role Korea played in introducing sword-smithing to Japan; so they feel (and I think they have a right to feel) that their nation had a role to play in the foundation of Kendo.
Kendo is CRAZY popular in Korea! You wouldn't expect it to be, with the expense of the equipment and all (although the price of new Bogu is coming down quite fast over there). Kendo is the 2nd most popular martial art over there!!! Taekwondo is first of course. Judo and Hapkido hover around the 3rd and 4th positions.
In casual conversations amongst the Kendo guys I hung out with, they called each other 'Samurai'. They wouldn't have done this if they thought that Kendo is primarily a Korean martial art.
By the way, the Japanese came from Korea during the 1st millennium A.D. anyways. They are all one family.

Great post. But regardless of where Japanese came from, Kendo was created while the people were in Japan. Do people in England Baseball or basketball by another name? So why chnage the name.

[Old Warrior]

Great post. But regardless of where Japanese came from, Kendo was created while the people were in Japan. Do people in England Baseball or basketball by another name? So why chnage the name.
Baseball is a widely enjoyed sport in Japan. They have different words for almost everything and yet the game is the same. Nobody cares who "invented baseball" as it is a gift of recreation to whoever wants to play/watch it. These discussions are useless and only underscore petty ethnocentric disputes fueled by historical inequities/wrongdoing; that ought to be acknowledged as a historical fact - and then disregarded in the context of modern life.

[misterkurukuru]

thats becuase no one else claims to have created base ball

[Old Warrior]

thats becuase no one else claims to have created base ball
If you are content with knowing something you believe to be true - it is of no moment that someone else may disagree. I swear to you that in my dojang, run by distinguished and talented men: there is no bias towards anyone, Japanese words are used where there are no Korean equivalents, many of the Koreans speak Japanese, etc. etc. I suggest that we would all be better served if we just ignore the petty and insignificant utterances of the unenlightened.

[misterkurukuru]

thats nice

[Hai_hai]

Baseball is a widely enjoyed sport in Japan. They have different words for almost everything and yet the game is the same. Nobody cares who "invented baseball" as it is a gift of recreation to whoever wants to play/watch it. These discussions are useless and only underscore petty ethnocentric disputes fueled by historical inequities/wrongdoing; that ought to be acknowledged as a historical fact - and then disregarded in the context of modern life.
Some people care who invented baseball, just as people care who invented basketball, golf, hockey, etc. It's a part of history and some people want to preserve historical facts. The history of kendo is argued over for this reason.

[Hai_hai]

This thread is filled with useless references to gymnastics, basketball, and soccer. Losers.

[Future Head]

Seriously, though, Australian Rules Football is better than rugby.

[Nanbanjin]

Seriously, though, Australian Rules Football is better than rugby.

Better than Rugby Union.
I still like League the best. Especially after last Sunday - Go the Bulldogs!

[Lloromannic]

Seriously, though, Australian Rules Football is better than rugby.
Gaelic football is better.

[kenshin13]

Can't we all just get along? :rolleyes:

To tell you the truth I would love to beat the beeep out of those kumdo beeeeeeeeeeeeep beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep ( Ok I'm bored, but so what? I'm so cool, you don't even know I'm cool :smoker: ).

[litige]

just as people care who invented basketball, ..., hockey, etc.

Well hockey and Lacrosse are Natives sports, but at least we got basketball.

[Hai_hai]

Well hockey and Lacrosse are Natives sports, but at least we got basketball.
I don't believe this. Lacrosse, gae-lick football, and rugby have nothing to do with kumdo vs. kendo.

[Lloromannic]

It's more like gay-lick. And the world revolves around it.

[Future Head]

Well hockey and Lacrosse are Natives sports, but at least we got basketball.
Invented by an alum of my fine institution, no less. But while he was in the US, it's important to note.

I don't believe this. Lacrosse, gae-lick football, and rugby have nothing to do with kumdo vs. kendo.
This kind of discussion is no less enlightening than kumdo vs. kendo. Which is to say, not at all.

[Hai_hai]

Invented by an alum of my fine institution, no less. But while he was in the US, it's important to note.


This kind of discussion is no less enlightening than kumdo vs. kendo. Which is to say, not at all.
I don't know why the exact history is "clouded", I have an idea. The history of European, African, and Middle Eastern weapons and weapon fighting styles is documented without quarreling of who invented what. So, there's a problem in that someone is not telling the truth.

[soapdish]

I know im probably posting on a dead subject. Just wanted to add a few thoughts.

First this comment by kenshin13:
"To tell you the truth I would love to beat the beeep out of those kumdo beeeeeeeeeeeeep beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep"

Is absolutely unnecessary. I hope your true age is 14.

Its funny that those higher in rank in both Korea and Japan have a mutual respect and even friendship with one another. With the odd exceptions here and there.

Im Korean. Sure Kendo/Kumdo when translated mean the path of the sword, but the manifestation of the bogu/hogu are clearly descendant from the Japanese. Its erroneous to dismiss any similarities between the bogu of Kendo and Samurai Armour.

Anyway. Anyone ever heard of Aiga Naoki? Yeah strangely enough this gracious practitioner trains in Korea now and then. Yep, he's even friends with Park Sang Sub who was the 2003 Domestic Korean Open Champion and integral member of the Korean National squad. Makes you think dont it? But enough of subtelties:

5. 한국의 검도 스타일은?

미국이나 영국등 구라파 선수들은 물론 한국선수들과의 시합 내용은 일본에서 하는 시합과 별 차이가 없습니다. 한국 검도 스타일과 일본 스타일을 따지지 말고 어느 누구하고 검도 시합을 하든 똑같은 마음으로 임해야 한다고 생각합니다. 한국선수들은 체격도 좋고 힘도 좋지만 특별히 까다롭다고 생각하지 않습니다.
Available at http://www.pentagon.co.kr/gray/main.htm click on the picture of Aiga Naoki Sensei.

Basically this is an excerpt of an interview by a Korean Kumdo player with Aiga Naoki. The question was what do you think of the Korean Kendo/Kumdo style? Aiga Naoki Sensei simply replied, "you know i actually think its a misconception that Koreans are any different in terms of how they practice and compete to us (Japan). Alot of Koreans are well built and quite strong, so I suppose it seems as though that when they compete people remark that they are a different to Japan. Not so, the feeling I get when the compete against us is that their training and shiai style is the same".
This doesn't go to prove or disprove any of your arguments. It just goes to show that alot these misconceptions are often in the eye of the beholder. Here is a gracious champion who after years of experience can perceive no 'difference' in styles. Makes you think dont it?

On a personal note, I have made alot of friends through practicing Kendo. In particular meeting travelling Japanese students who pass through our club. Also, whilst I understand that these 'issues' need to be talked about, the reality of Kendo/Kumdo is that actions, practice and hard work speak for experience. Not words on an internet posting about who is the true suzerian of a martial art.

Also to Nanbanjin. I am personally offended at your comments about Kim Kyoung Nam. The Korean Kumdo Association stripped him of his title completely. Ive been born and raised in Australia and understand 'youre only having a slight dig at him'. Point is, that its an indictment on your own misconceptions of what is appropriate behaviour from a 'majority perspective'. Turn the tables put yourself into a Korean person's shoes and see how you feel if one of your greatest Kumdo/Kendo practitioners has done something reprehensible and unforgiveable, would you like salt in the wound? Its sad to think that someone in the Australian Kendo Renmei , a renmei I am part of , holds those beliefs no matter who subtle and humurous. You may not mind references to analogous situations in Australian sport, but be mindful you might be comfortable with it but others may not. Think about this, your little joke does add to that negative stereotype of Koreans being ungracious competitors whether consciously or subconsciouly eg the Korean Coach at the World Kendo Championships .

Don't get me wrong, im not a great sensei with years of experience. I think however once anyone takes this debate of kendo vs kumdo beyond the realm of actual practice and technique and causes friction then if you have an opinion on the matter then express it.

[GrandCentral9]

Great post. But regardless of where Japanese came from, Kendo was created while the people were in Japan. Do people in England Baseball or basketball by another name? So why chnage the name.

As has probably been pointed out ad nauseum... nobody changed the name. It's a different way to pronounce the same word

[DanDan]

i've been comparing kendo and kumdo for a long time now. the thing is....they're the same thing

[ISSAC RU]

korea remained as the kingdom under the chinese empires until the
qing dynasty collasped at 1911.A.D.

there is no such thing as 'pure korean blooded ppl'
koreans are mostly mixed with northern chinese ppl and mongolian.

koreans say kendo came from korea , but where did they learn how to make
劍 and how to use 劍 ?
appearantly they learned from the chinese..

during Japanese korean war in 16th century..if weren't the Ming empire sent
reainforcement korea will became the colony of japan long time ago.
the general who let the army was called 邓子龍.
if u think i just made this up ? please check some history books..


once again..
korean kings were called as 千歲
instead of 萬岁

which indicates they were a just a kingdom under the great empire.

[rainmaker]

So what is your point ????? Japanese also stole skilled sword maker from Korea long time ago. This might have impacted their Japanese sword making skill. Korea also learned from China for many others. It is fact. Ru, you are not a pure blood after all. Ask your mom if you had blue mongolian spot on your ass when you were born. Chinese is also bunch of mixed race itself except not with western race. So, let's stop this nonsense..



korea remained as the kingdom under the chinese empires until the
qing dynasty collasped at 1911.A.D.

there is no such thing as 'pure korean blooded ppl'
koreans are mostly mixed with northern chinese ppl and mongolian.

koreans say kendo came from korea , but where did they learn how to make
劍 and how to use 劍 ?
appearantly they learned from the chinese..

during Japanese korean war in 16th century..if weren't the Ming empire sent
reainforcement korea will became the colony of japan long time ago.
the general who let the army was called 邓子龍.
if u think i just made this up ? please check some history books..


once again..
korean kings were called as 千歲
instead of 萬岁

which indicates they were a just a kingdom under the great empire.

[ISSAC RU]

yea...lets just stop these loads of crap..

[Matlock]

Ok, I think that it is time for a breather..... and maybe a time for reflection at the kendo/kumdo and ourselves....

Whether it is Kendo from Japan, Kumdo from Korea or Kunniopposuully from the planet Mars, they all have the same purpose. It is for players to come together for health and enjoyment, meeting friends and interacting...and most importantly, improving ourselves so that we will be more refined, better mannered, mentally stronger and maintain a better focus.... To find a "better" path in life.

In other words, the purpose is completely different from what everyone is writing and fussing about.... Get off the keyboards and get yourself into the dojo and enjoy whatever it is that you practice!!!!!

Thanks!!! Now have a Great and Wonderful Holiday Season!!!!

Cheers :smiley:

[kanyil]

To tell you the truth I would love to beat the beeep out of those kumdo beeeeeeeeeeeeep beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
I would also love to beat the beeep out of any hachidans, nanadans, rokudans, godans, yondans, sandans, nidans, shodans and kyus, in the nicest possible way and with full reigi of course, IF and WHEN I have the necessary skills.

Unfortunately, at this stage of my kendo career I am usually on the wrong end of the beating, regardless of whether I'm up against kendo, kumdo or Jian-Dao.

[DarthMaul]

Well one thing seems clear.

The Japanese have always dominated Kendo competitions and are clearly the best at it. ;)

(from my research thus far anyways)

[DarthMaul]

This seems to be a common arguement in the Kendo world. And it seems that only Koreans believe that this is true.

If Koreans passed on swordsmanship to the Japanese, and therefore Kendo originated from Korea then the following must also be true....

All the Sony products I love so dearly, must have originated from Korea!

[DanDan]

^no....i can't believe we're still talking about this...

[DarthMaul]

Is this stuff (http://www.kumdo.com/ushwarangkwan/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=39) even remotely true?

[grasshopper_r2]

Is this stuff (http://www.kumdo.com/ushwarangkwan/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=39) even remotely true?Partially yes, and Partially no.

[senjlee]

I posted it somewhere else, too.
I don't know who in the Korean Kumdo Association (KKA) started this claim in the beginning.
Kendo is definitely Japanese. Modern kendo we practice is closely related with Itto-ryu, cause majority of kenshi in Japan in 19th century were Itto-ryu kenshi and they organized the curriculum.
It's true Korean ancestors contributed a lot in many aspects of old Japan. However, we are not talking about sword smithing or transfer of culture in the old days. It was Itto Itosai who founded Itto-ryu, and it was Miyanoto Musashi who founded Niten-Ichi-ryu.
KKA's false claim is political in it's nature, which is isolating korean kendo lovers from the rest of the world, and confusing others.
Above all, it's an insult to those people deserve the credit.