Broken Shinai

[Confound]

I keep running across posts with references to 'broken shinai', apparently everyone seems to have quite a few of them. I have yet to break a shinai. I've worn one out, but not broken it. Am I supposed to be breaking them?

Does anyone else have this 'lack of broken shinai' problem? Everyone who has made these references is male. I have yet to see any of our female posters writing about having a shinai junkyard in their basement. Is it a strength thing, or have I been going about kendou all wrong. Who knows.

I'm just wondering if there's anyone else who doesn't break shinai. I can't be the only non-hercules out there.

c

[reicheru]

I've never broken one either. Occassionally I'll find a splinter that needs to be sanded down (rarely), but never a broken shinai. I personally don't see it as a "problem" though!

[ben]

I don't have a "shinai junkyard in my basement", I have row upon row of stakes for my tomato plants. I hope we get some decent rain soon...
:)
b

[KhawMengLee]

I only broke one shinai once. It happened during jigeiko and one of the side slats split right down the middle. I think it was due from blocking too much.

Since changing my tactics to attacking more or doing suriage waza I have had no breaks.

MENG

[munenmuso]

I broke my first shinai. It's the most abused shinai I ever had. Being a beginner, I hit so hard thinking that it's the right thing to do but later found out that it's the most stupid thing to do.

But I know that my most beloved shinai is also the cheapest. Got it for only US$12.00 as standard issue of the club. I broke the most exposed part but I changed that slat eversince and it lasted for three years. And now since it's the most sentimental shinai in the roster, it found it's place in the most sacred part of my room.

[KENSHIN]

Originally posted by Confound

Does anyone else have this 'lack of broken shinai' problem? Everyone who has made these references is male.



Well, thats probably due to the fact that women are such weak speices, it is alomst impossible for them to do it...is it not? :D :D only joking confi...but i have to say that i have been doing kendo for about 1 year now and my shinai looks as though it will last for another year or so...hmmm, or maybe its just that i am a weak and futile male :confused: or could it just simply be that i take good care of my property, and this taking good care of ones property is more probable, only due to the fact that i want my shinai to last as long as it can because i am such a tight ass when thinking about buying another shinai... ;)

[sparc]

Originally posted by Confound
Does anyone else have this 'lack of broken shinai' problem? Everyone who has made these references is male. I have yet to see any of our female posters writing about having a shinai junkyard in their basement. Is it a strength thing, or have I been going about kendou all wrong. Who knows.

I'm just wondering if there's anyone else who doesn't break shinai. I can't be the only non-hercules out there.

c

Not at all, I'm just waiting for the day that I do though. :D Got to be a first time for everything. :)

[etherknot]

Originally posted by sparc


Not at all, I'm just waiting for the day that I do though. :D Got to be a first time for everything. :)

I just know my first shinai is going to blow during my first jigeiko or during actual shiai. That said it will be prudent to bring an extra shinai along.

That said, I'll come back to this post someday and quote myself: DOH! :rolleyes:

[sparc]

Originally posted by etherknot


That said it will be prudent to bring an extra shinai along.

That said, I'll come back to this post someday and quote myself: DOH! :rolleyes:

Good call. I've just put my extra shinai in the bag just now. I don't like tempting fate. :) But whats life without a few risks? :)

[David J]

I just know my first shinai is going to blow during my first jigeiko or during actual shiai. [/B]

You'll reduce your chance of this if you maintain your shinai properly* - taking it to bits you should see a major blowout coming. Far better for all concerned to retire a shinai (or one slat thereof) early, than to explode it in someone's neck / face / arm....<shudder>

<rei>

Dave

* BTW, I'm not aiming this comment at etherknot or anyone in particular

[Matthew Lagden]

I've never seen one blow though. Is our Dojo just very good at Shinai maintenance, is the kit fetish so highly developed that people replace them every two months, or is this an exaggerated problem?

In answer to my own question, mine is a year old, seems to be going fine, but I'm replacing it anyway because i don't like the weight/size/feel, and it seems to need more and more care and reassambly, and i'm sick of spending half saturday putting it back together again.

so there.

[JSchmidt]

Shinai's dont *blow*. They usually split and you'll only notice by the sound really.
Most of mine, have just plain been worn down...the last 2, (nice expensive ones too), both split after opponents shinai got logded inbetween the staves and when I tried to salvage old ones, I realised that they had dried out and started to splinter.

Jakob

[etherknot]

Not to worry, I've been maintaining a close regimen of tender loving care to my shinai since I got it. No apperant cracks or anything... yet.

I'm just saying like at the most inopportune moment it's going to achieve some catastrophic adjective of your choice here*, failure.

Why? It'll probably just be my luck. :)


*your choice of adjective to replace blow.

[CypherSushi]

I only have one shinai... I will buy another one as soon as I can though, since I think that I subconsiously hit less hard cause I want it to hold. I am teh only female in teh club to so if It would break I would have to use a 39 which I don't want to.

At my grading I was told that I hit to weak so I guess I have to buy that new one asap :)

[inner_cent]

Wish I can be like you Confound, ........ Everytime one slab of the shinai broke, it breaks my heart :( Not just because its my favourate shinai, and its also because its hard to find a good enough replacement parts for it.....

[Confound]

I have about four shinai at the moment, I like them all equally. mine usually wear out, they don't break.

c

[Critical_Bill]

I have 2 shinai and some spare parts atm :)
the two whole ones are total frankenstien shinais :) i've never broken one, but they do wear out, and you can only sand so much before it's a lost cause :)
Anyway i kinda enjoy fixing my shinais :)

[saki_wooah]

I never broke my shinais (in my short experience). My first one started to worn out when I decided to buy a new one because I thought it was too blue for me and the leather handle was gross. My new one is okay, but the cord is starting to break. My nakayui is going to die in any minute, but the slats are okay.

[hobbit]

I have a supply of take from splintered shinai, but haven't broken one in a few years practicing. Having said that, I recently saw someone trash 2 during a shiai bout.

[cklin]

Question: what does it mean to "wear out" a shinai? Do you mean the leather fittings or the actual bamboo?

As was said earlier, it really depends on how well you take care of the shinai and what the climate is. And how tall your opponents are (the taller they are, the more probable it is to hit men gane). The longest I've had one shinai was 2.5 yrs, then I got busy and wasn't good about oiling it (it was winter-time, so the air was very dry) -- broke at the next keiko. :'(

[Tato]

Well, I never broke a Shinai (yet), but I guess that this is because I'm still a beginner (and because I don't cut with suficient strength).

I've seen a couple of shinai breaking, allways in shiai.

And I've seen a really worn out shinai, with the bamboo slates literally desintegrating into little staves. In fact you where able to accelerate the process by rolling the slate with your fingers. Amazing.

Rei

[Confound]

those kinds of shinai, Tato, should be thrown in the garbage post-haste, then their owners should be given a stern lecture in shinai maintenance. If they do not repent the error of their ways, let me know. I'll send them some horribly graphic information about potential eye diseases they could have the pleasure of contracting if bamboo ends up in their eyes.

c

[AlexM]

In 1¼ years of kendo I have managed to go through 5 shinai. I oil them and I sand them, I reassemble them from spare parts and I've still managed to go through 5 freaking shinai in about a year of being in bogu. My dojo mates can testify to the spectacular nature of some of my breaks (we're talking splits down half the length of the shinai). At one point during the summer I broke one slat per practice.

And yes, I already know that:
a) I block too much
b) I hit too hard (So, anyone up for jikeiko?)
c) I go for dou very often (I think this can really damage a shinai over the long run)
d) I'm a bit shorter than many of my regular opponents so I'm more likely to hit the mengane isntead of the men-buton.

[Paburo]

well alex, in my dojo there's this guy who has broken more shinais than you in about the same time. i think Tato knows him.

he broke one once against his opponents dou in men-kaeshi-dou waza. the dou even got cracked a bit (cheap fiber glass). the last one he broke was doing kote-nuki-men. the staves spread as if it was popcorn.

my sensei told me to put my heart on them tournaments. that's what i do, and that's why shinais die. too much kiai.

confound, what you need is more taikai and go for the kill. then we'll see how long your shinai lasts :D

[kendokamax]

???????????
need more taikai and go for the kill????

ehh ?? They broke a shinai during do- kirikaeshi??
woah this is scary stuff!

as for playing taikai and gettin ippon....you don't really need to break your shinai with your ?kiai? to win.....euh ....
With my cheap "made in china" shinai I won 10 matches in two tournaments over a period of 4 months...and it was still good for practices after....but that shinai is history now.....:'(

[Steve]

I apparently am very hard on shinai. I maintain them regularly with oil, sand down splinters, etc... but i have a shinai graveyard.

A good number of them are most likely due to hitting too hard, many are due to our dry weather, and some are just cheap shinai. Most likely its a combination of all of them.

Most of the breaks occur at the first joint in the bamboo above the tsuba (that little nub on the inside) and proceed to crack above and below that area. Why that particular spot, i don't know why

Can i count the number of shinai I've broken? Yeah, but i'm ashamed to do so. Lets just say I've been in Kendo for just over 3 years, and I've had about (off the record) 10 (new) bamboo shinai (+ or -) and 1 carbon shinai. <sniffle>

As far as women breaking shinai, we've had that happen. Not as often as the guys, but it does happen.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Steve
I
Most of the breaks occur at the first joint in the bamboo above the tsuba (that little nub on the inside) and proceed to crack above and below that area. Why that particular spot, i don't know why.
Have a look at the edges of the staves on the sides. If there are dents in them around that area, then you're hitting the men-gane there. This means you're hitting too close.

Another issue is if you are receiving a lot of practice cuts on the shinai when working with the beginners. If you habitually use your regular shinai as a target for beginners, consider constructing a short target shinai from broken staves so that you don't wreck your own shinais.

[etherknot]

Well I still have yet to see a shinai break. Although I've only been around for a year.
But sure enough last weekend my naginata instructor was engaged in jigeiko and there was this really loud WHACK....thud. And silence. Sure enough he was standing with e-bu in hand and everybody was looking at his ha-bu (tip end) just lying down on the floor near by. :(
Right above the tape line... clear across and snapped right off. You want bamboo splinters? Cause he has plenty to give out now...

[Paburo]

steve>> if the cracks are near the tsuba, isn't that for blocking too much?

90% of the shinais i've cracked were damaged between nakayui and kensen.

kendokamax>> i didn't break the shinai in KIRIkaeshi dou.
it was men-kaeshi-dou, and it was in the middle of shiai.

what i meant with breaking a shinai in taikai was that the more 'kiai'('fighting spirit' in this case, not koe) you use in shiai, the more likely it is to break the shinai. (and most kenshi increase their kiai when going to a tournament.)

that's why a lot of ppl that usually use only bamboo switch to carbon shinai mode in taikai :D

[kendokamax]

ah really?

I didnt know that

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Paburo
that's why a lot of ppl that usually use only bamboo switch to carbon shinai mode in taikai
I'm the opposite - I use carbon for everyday practice, and bamboo for jigeiko with seniors or shiai. The carbon feels like crap compared to a nice bamboo shinai, but has the virtue of low maintenance.

[Paburo]

also and more important, it's more resistant. therefore it's safer.

i feel more in peace with myself knowing my shinai it's not gonna crack suddenly and injure my aite.

you are right though, the bamboo feeling is a lot better.

[Steve]

Thanks for the tips Neil. There are "dents" on the shinai, but much higher up. Above the nakayui for about 90% of them with a few strays. I do use the same shinai for keiko as i do for receiving various drills from beginners. I'll make up a "drill shinai" for that purpose. Hopefully that ought to take care of things.

Thanks a million!

[scbang]

I once had a shinai that was broken with very first kote-nuki-men.
One stroke - one shinai.

Not a good way to justify my Kendo expense.
Carbon Hasegawa ia a MUST for me.

SC

[aru-ma]

speaking of broken shinais, I've read somwhere that its better to use used cooking oil than an unused oil I'm not convinced though, can someone tell me pls? being a poor university student I cant buy a carbon shinai.

[Paburo]

i heard that, in theory, you can use any oil -vegetable or not- as long as it is absorb-able by the bamboo staves.

but, the heavier the oil, the heavier your shinai will be at the end.

here we usually use sewing machine type oil(lighter) or olive oil
(cause this is spain, and olive oil rocks :D )
i guess if you were in japan you could use ŒÓ–ƒ–û (gomaabura) instead.

[Steve]

For maintenance I use Gun-oil. Its cheap, and very light. It also comes in handy containers with a small nozzle on it allowing you to control how much you put on very easily. 1 bottle of it costs about $3 and lasts for quite some time.

For a new shinai that is dry and needs to be bathed, gun oil will work great, but would be expensive to buy the amount you need. So i use cooking oil for the initial oil bath.

I've been told lemon oil or orange oil also work great, but haven't tried those myself.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Gun oil is good. Make sure you get the kind *without* the blueing in it.

Veggie oil works just fine, just make sure you have less soak time with it than with lighter oils.

Haven't had much success with lemon oil. Works great with wood, doesn't seem to do much for bamboo. Also, it's expensive.

[scbang]

I was soaking new shinais in Canola Oil - 2-3 month in fact. Rmember the broken shinai mentioned before? One stroke, One shinai? That was the one soaked in Canola oil for 2 months.
Doesn't seem to have made much difference. Unless of course it really was a BAD shinai to begin with.

SC

[hwarangdo]

First time I broke a jookdo I taped it back together. My Master laughed when he saw that, told me only the severely financially challenged students did that back in his day (1950's).

Yeah, that would be me.

I tend to break my jookdos when I hit the tire (target).

I used my Master's carbonfiber jookdo once. Didn't like it, seemed bulky, and heavier.

Would be nice if someone made plastic jookdos. Wouldn't break, easy to carry on planes, probably wouldn't cost that much.

I'm thinking about ordering jookdos in bulk, from a distributor.

[kendo_chick]

I still have my original shinai that I still use for warm up because it is a little heavier than my geiko shinai

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by scbang
I was soaking new shinais in Canola Oil - 2-3 month in fact. Rmember the broken shinai mentioned before? One stroke, One shinai? That was the one soaked in Canola oil for 2 months.
Doesn't seem to have made much difference. Unless of course it really was a BAD shinai to begin with.

SC
Soaking for too long makes them soggy and weak. For Canola oil, coat the staves in oil and let sit for 3 days, then wipe off. For lighter oils, let sit for 5 days or so.

[Dwayne P.]

In my case, uchiotoshi waza and strong do cuts tend to be the brunt of abuse for my shinai’s.

Ultimately I believe that maintenance and technique is key to pro-longed life of a shinai.

To add to the points already listed above. I’ve really noticed that the durability of the “cheapie” shinai really don’t stand up to pro-longed abuse. Obviously the quality of the bamboo and the construction of the shinai has a lot to do with it. The lower end shinai tend to crack and or fracture near the tip a bit more then a mid to high end grade shinai’s do. However, if one happens to crack/snap on you, you’ll wish it was a cheapie! Yes I have some lower grade shinai that have made it a couple years also but overall for me they seem to be the first to go.

Dwayne

[Steve]

Damn you Kendo_Chick.....Damn you.

[kendoka_ca]

I guess I must have seen more than my share of broken shinai. In fact, I probably broke one a month when I first started kendo. I hit like I was swinging some kind of prehistoric club, and I owe a great debt to my dojo comrades who endured that early punishment. Not to mention sensei's patience in finally making me stop it. But then again, I have been paid back since then by a few new generations of beginners who had the same early habits.

Isn't the most common factor that causes beginners to weaken, splinter, and break shinai with some regularity is the tendency to hit the metal bars of the men? Part of it is immature technique, but some of it comes from the reflexive reaction that motodachi (esp. shorter ones!) have when beginners are pummeling them. It may not take that many strikes with a cheap shinai on the bars of the men to crack of splinter a stave. So even if sensei is working hard to get new students to strike correctly, the damage can be done quickly.