50th AJKF Championships

[AlexM]

Just wondering. Does anyone know who is favored to win it all at the AJKF Taikai (It's in November right)? There must be more than one favorite.
Are there any "darkhorse" fighters (people you aren't favored but might cause an upset).

How are Mitsunobu Sato and Tachibana Yoshito's chances?
I heard the Miyazaki (Masahiro) is not in the tounament this year. If it's true then why?

Anybody cheering for someone in particular?

And no, I'm not starting this thread for the purpose of placing odds (and bets) on the fighters.

[kendokamax]

GO SATO-!!!!!!!!!

this year is the good one for him!

In reality i don't know most of the participant this year! most of the "old school" gods (miyazaki ishida etc...) are getting too old...

http://www.kendo.or.jp/japanese/result/champ50/champ50-kumiawase.html

I think that's the tournament tree?
bah can't even read half of the names..

[kendokamax]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

sato- lost in the first round !! :'(

..

looks like there isnt many fan of zennihon taikai here :(

[hamish]

We're just getting ready to go down to the Budokan and start filming the second day of the champs.

Last year's champ, Iwasa, went through to the 3rd round. There's a few strong looking younger guys, Eiga Naoki is through as well. Miyazaki's probably had enough, but both Kanagawa reps are looking very strong.

Well, off to the Budokan......

Hamish

[kendokamax]

you are sooooo lucky!!!

[AlexM]

Nuts. I really like Sato's style. How the hell did he get eliminated (kote in encho). I heard he does EVERYTHING well. Maybe kendo is more about luck than I thought...

I heard the Kanagawa reps are not only strong but relatively young too (always cheer for the rookies).

As for those of you who get to watch this happen in person...I'm dying of envy :) .

BTW, has a "non-policeman" ever won the nationals. Please forgive my ignorance.

[kendokamax]

ando no kachi!

who is that guy? never heard of him before ! :P

[munenmuso]

Hidenori Iwasa lost!!!!!:(

well at least he lost to a most worthy opponentAndo who?

[hamish]

Bit of a dodgy call on the kote that beat Sato, but I think they wanted to get it over with!

Ando is a Kokushikan grad, staunch mother who won the All Japan students competition individuals twice, came third once and was on the team that won the student's teams event once, and won the All Japan Police 4th dan and below division once.

His third appearance in the champs, comes from Gifu, and is a cop from Aichi.

Certainly better kendo than Iwasa, and he's been injured for some time, so it's something of a come-back for him.

Hamish

[kendokamax]

Thats interesting

Ya I saw that Iwasa (like usual) won all hi matches in encho. (he also lost in encho during the final)
I kind of dislike his kendo being too carefull. I was so scared that he wins the competion twice in a row.

So Ando is a new winner eh? thats really nice

[AlexM]

Originally posted by Hamish
Bit of a dodgy call on the kote that beat Sato, but I think they wanted to get it over with!



Isn't kote ALWAYS a dodgy call :D . Hate kote, hate it with white hot a passion.

Wow, I thought the judges only gave points on dodgy calls in Mudansha division (i.e. when their tired of watching a match and want it to end).

Thanks for the info and keep it coming!

[hamish]

There were many kote scored in the competition, and some very sweet ones too, but I know what you mean!

I'm editing the video today, so I may post that point up later on. Keep an eye out!

Hamish

[hamish]

Check out the goodies page down the bottom for video of the kote that ended Sato Mitsunobu's hopes this year.

Hamish

[AlexM]

Thanks for the video (something that obscure must be tough to get).

It does look like a border-line kote. You'd swear Mori almost hit the arm and not the gauntlet despite Sato's REALLY open stance. Mori seems almost befuddled, glancing back at the shimpan: "Huh? They gave me the point?". Or maybe I'm reading too much into the video. I can't believe someone with Sato's experience left himself so open.

Brings up a question: Do they generally give points when the opponent is "zanshin-ing" after a hit?

[ben]

My browser wouldn't open the "goodies" link. Neither would it show the location address. Is it /goodies.htm ?
:(
b

[hamish]

AlexM - We had three cameras going, so it was just a case of sorting through our footage. NHK didn't start filming until the second day, so I don't think you could get it anywhere else.
If you get hit during zanshin, it's not good zanshin, is it?

Ben: that should work.

Hamish

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by AlexM


BTW, has a "non-policeman" ever won the nationals. Please forgive my ignorance.

Toda Sensei (recently visited my village) was not a policeman and was AJKF Champion.

He is the Toda Sensei who is highly regrded for his nito skills


R

[kendokamax]

I just saw the kote of mori against sato-. ya it doesnt look sooo good.

I wonder was there 3 flag on that play? I can easely see why 2 shinpan would give it but the other one?

[Kendoka]

Hey, the Shinpan were there - like, in the shiajo! They are the ones that were chosen to judge !

And you better know that they were experienced, so unless you have more kendo and shinpan experience than them and you were there - accept the result !

R

:emb:

[munenmuso]

Did you see that men hit of Iwasa during the semifinal round. I think that was a bad call because his monouchi never hit his opponent's men. It was the midsection of his sword that made the contact to his opponent's surprise. Though he strike it perfectly well, with all the element of a great shot, but the camera caught it in film and the station played it in slow motion several times in the best angles and you can see vividly that the monouchi never landed the spot. That was in encho. I guess he was lucky and at the same time it was so fast yet it looked so convincingly good that the shimpans gave the shot a point.

But Ando is still the superior kendoka!!!!!!!!:)

[AlexM]

Originally posted by Kendoka
Hey, the Shinpan were there - like, in the shiajo! They are the ones that were chosen to judge !

And you better know that they were experienced, so unless you have more kendo and shinpan experience than them and you were there - accept the result !

R

:emb:

Nope. I refuse to accept Sato's defeat. I plan to launch an official protest against the shimpan involved at the IKF.

C'mon, we've all seen shimpan get it wrong (the notorious "phantom men" scored by Miyazaki a few years back comes to mind). Nothing disrespectful in saying it (although in this case we're just saying it looks like a borlder-line hit).

If we can't bitch about the refereeing than what can we bitch about? :D
BTW, Thanks for the info of Toda sensei!

[kendokamax]

I accept every call when i'm fighting in shiai, because that's the way it is.. cant blame the shinpan because it is a super difficult job. that's the way kendo is!:)

but still we have fun bitching (AlexM your foul mouth is influencing my poor english)

Phantom men of Miyazaki and Taro Ariga's do and the best shinpan mistakes i saw so far.

However I guess Taro's do was just not given which is better than giving a point where there is not even a hit.. ( I really think miyazaki was a god for doing that lol)

[Kendoka]

Re; Toda sensei, there are some videos of him on the Kendo World Goodies page.

R.

:smile:

[AlexM]

Originally posted by Hamish
AlexM - We had three cameras going, so it was just a case of sorting through our footage. NHK didn't start filming until the second day, so I don't think you could get it anywhere else.

Hamish

That's always the problem with the video tapes of the NHK broadcast: despite the excellent production values, they only show the last day of competition (and the final 8 participants) so you might miss out on some of the better fights (and fighters) in the first rounds.

I heard that the finals match between Ando and Iwasa was very boring (including a really long encho). What were your impressions? (I'm asking this to everybody) I promise to post mine (not that it really matters) as soon as I get to see it for myself.

[kendokamax]

the encho wasnt long but it was just a boring match with only 1 good hit

[munenmuso]

Well, Iwasa was boring but Ando played dynamically. He was more of the aggressor and kept the fight in his favor. Giving no time for Iwasa (the more defensive player) to react. It was perfect timing during encho that he was able to land the "coup de grace" and won the match. Good for that guy, he never show any emotions when he won the tourney that was shown during his interview succeeding after the fight.

BTW who was that guy who disarmed his opponent's shinai during encho. I thought they will award you half point if you were able to disarm your opponent's sword? And there was this guy who magnificently blocked all the strikes even after he was already lying on the ground that happened after he executed a good do going to the right.

Anyway, most of the fights are long too boring.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....:)

[qpuppy]

Well... I have to agree with most people here this time....
I have to say, this years AJKC wasnt as exciting as last years. There were alot of encho.. but, this years encho seem very very long. Also, dont quite know about this years Shinpanning too. Even though I am only a kyu grader, I still can tell some of the point given are in question. For example the point Sato lost. Also, dont know if there were many people watched the AJKC on NHK, one really shocking thing was the winner, Ando could have got through the quarter finals. The kote he scored was more like the point that Sato lost (being hit on the elbow) and the scond point was a men but it was score with the bottom part of the shinai.. sooooo I found the shinpanning to be a bit dodgy.....

Please forgive me if I sound I was being abit disrepectful... I am not. Just saying what I was thinking

woof woof...... :)

[hamish]

It was 8 seconds into the encho when Ando got the point, the classic seme in, pull back, and then strike as your opponent follows up. All Iwasa could do was say 'bugger' and nod to Ando as the refs walked back to their positions.

Some of the matches were pretty boring, if you see the camera jumping unexpectedly during any of the footage, that's because one of us fell asleep for a second!

About the shinai dropping, there was also someone in the 8th dan tournament who dropped theirs.

It's not a half point for making your opponent drop their shinai, but a penalty against the person who dropped it, and when you get two penalties against you, your opponent is awarded one point. (Eiga Naoki was knocked out of the tournament last year after he went out twice, and his opponent was awarded the winning point.)

Hamish

[munenmuso]

qpuppy,

Being a beginner does not deprives you of your abilities to sense the obvious. Do not be sorry when your just being honest. It is quite a sad story to watch the most premier league plagued by boredom and bad judgements from the shimpans, it is they who should be forgiven, to err is human :). I know you expect so much of a higher standard and more accurate refereeing, and seeing them giving their best only to be misjudge by a wrong call is a sense of tragedy.

Thank God we're only spectators/symphatizers sitting 10,000 miles away in front of out TV sets!!!

munenmuso

[munenmuso]

thanks for that info, Hamish.

Also, if your opponent drops his shinai, say after a strong harai, can you follow through with a kote/men/do and be awarded a point for that follow through despite the absence of your opponent's shinai or they immediately halt the match?

[Lill Murveln]

Originally posted by munenmuso
thanks for that info, Hamish.

Also, if your opponent drops his shinai, say after a strong harai, can you follow through with a kote/men/do and be awarded a point for that follow through despite the absence of your opponent's shinai or they immediately halt the match?

I´ve been taught that before both ends of your oponents shinai has touched the ground you can score a point...

[KhawMengLee]

Its shinai hanase. If you drop your shinai grab your opponent or dodge the free hit he will take. Its better to lose 1/2 a point then to lose a whole.

Yes, he can take a free hit but if he misses the initiative then its just 1/2piont

MENG

[munenmuso]

Thanks Meng, but for how long its valid after dropping your shinai?

[KhawMengLee]

well, you get one shot so it has to be straight away. If you pause for too long or step back then its gone...but make sure the shinpan calls "yame" before you stop, if not keep fighting.

[GMason]

I believe, that if the cut comes as part of the act of disarming the oposing Kendoka (Disarming is the wrong word really as you can be given hansoku for deliberatly disarming someone) in other words uchiotoshi (for example) Kendoka drops shinai you immediately cut men that is OK.

on the other hand if you cut uchiotoshi kendoka drops shinai you stop think OH my GOD he dropped his shinai what do I do now .....OK I know I'll cut his men ......... quick cut his men .... MMMMMMEEEENNNN !!!!!

Then in some cases you could get hansoku against you, having said that I have never seen that given in vast far reaching three or years of practice :D , but it is in the rules of Shiai.

That is my take on it please correct me if I'm wrong.

[kendokamax]

get hansoku because you try to hit your oponent that doesnt have shinai? I think that's stupid! is that really a rule?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by kendokamax
get hansoku because you try to hit your oponent that doesnt have shinai? I think that's stupid! is that really a rule?
Not that I'm aware of. If he drops his shinai for any reason, you get a free shot. The duration of time allowed is up to the shimpan but basically you're supposed to take advantage of the opportunity immediately. So if you drop your shinai, treat your opponent like a long-lost brother and give him a big hug - he can't attack you that way.

[hamish]

As far as I'm aware the only time you could get a hansoku against you for hitting your opponent is after the shinpan has called yame, and even then it would have to be pretty gratuitous to qualify.

Hamish

[GMason]

I was fairly sure that is the case but, like I said I've never actually seen it given. I'm only going on what I've been told (I'll have to check my rule book.)

I have seen two Kendoka one with Shinai and the other with out, almost chase each other round the Shiaijo (SP?) trying to cut the other, and nothing was done about that.

So I bow to greater collective knowledge.

But I sure that I'm righ........... No sorry I believe you honest :D

[Voodoo-U]

Does anyone know if VCD's or DVD's are available of the championships?

I have been able to find VHS of the events, but as I do not have a VCR (and would hate to buy one just for this occasion) I was hoping that another format might be available.

[stinkyKote]

DVD but no VCR??? God damn I feel old ...

[Voodoo-U]

Hehe. Last VCR I had was 4 years ago, it died about 3 months after getting my first DVD player.

Hadn't even considered getting new one as everything I watch (up to till now) has been available on either DVD or VCD.

Am pretty suprised that it isn't available somewhere on at least VCD.

[kendokamax]

WOW

same thing happened to me too

I have a ps2 but no vcr

sucks

[saki_wooah]

Geez... I have more VCRs than TVs
It's cheap you know!
I have a DVD player too...
As well as a bunch of computers
I have everything except a PS2...!!!

nyway, anyone is going to see the 12th World Kendo Championship in Glascow this summer (i know the topic here is the AJKF championships)?

[munenmuso]

Originally posted by saki_wooah
Geez... I have more VCRs than TVs
It's cheap you know!
I have a DVD player too...
As well as a bunch of computers
I have everything except a PS2...!!!

nyway, anyone is going to see the 12th World Kendo Championship in Glascow this summer (i know the topic here is the AJKF championships)?

BTW, how come the World Kendo Championship stands only in 4th when it comes to prestige and importance considering its a worldwide event. We have the All Japan Kendo Championship in first place, the All Japan Police Kendo Champ, and the All Japan College Kendo Champ placing second and third respectively. WKC placed last among them and of course the Japs dominated the event eversince.

Is this correct?

[KhawMengLee]

I think that view would change if some serious competition sprouted up from around the globe. Better start training your sons and daughters, they are the future :)

[saki_wooah]

Hmm... I don't really know but I suppose that the number of kendoka in Japan is bigger... The quality of their kendo is also absolutely beautiful. Kendo comes from Japan, no? So the national competition must be very important... When was the first AJKF championship?

actually, I have no idea why the WKC is not the most important taikai....

[mingshi]

The 1st AJKF Championship was held in 1953, and the 1st WKC was in 1970.

The WKC was held to promote Kendo outside Japan.... in terms of importance and quality....ah, hmmm... maybe I've said too much.

[Alex]

If you want a CD-ROM of the champs, why not subscribe to Kendo World. Now that would be a novel idea! We are just finishing the editing of all our film of the recent champs, and will be putting it in the next issue due out in mid-December.

[Voodoo-U]

Heh, already subscribed my friend :)

Got the last issue about 2 weeks ago. and am looking forward to receiving the next issue as well.

What format are you using for the video...Divx, mpeg? About how much footage will be on the disc?

[Matthew Lagden]

and referring back a bit, i think a group of us from my dojo will be watching in glasgow at the WKC - we'll never get a better chance to see high level kendo, without going to japan...

[Inouye02]

does anybody know if any video's exist of Toda Sensei doing Nito ? or of any video's of Nito Ryu?

[Steve]

As for video's, I've never seen one. However there is a popular magazine in japan that just did a section on Nito. The response was so high, they are going to publish a "nito-manual" this summer! The rumor is that this will also be translated into english as well!!!

Cool. Even though i don't use nito, i can't wait to get a look at that!!!! I'll dig aroung through my e-mails and see if i can find the name of the magazine.

[KhawMengLee]

Wow! Please do!

I just bought a couple of japanese kendo books and they are great. Unfortunately I can't read japanese so I don't even know the titles but they both have very detailed pics on various waza.

be great to try to get that magazine too.

MENG

[stinkyKote]

Originally posted by Alex
If you want a CD-ROM of the champs, why not subscribe to Kendo World. Now that would be a novel idea!

How about you sell the CD seperately on kendo-world.com? I think that would be an even more novel idea!:D

[sminki]

Joining the discussion late, but regarding AlexM's question about non-police kenshi winning the AJKC, the list is as follows:

1953 Sakakibara, Tadashi, Renshi
1954 Konishi, Yuhichiro, Renshi
1956 Asakawa, Haruo, Kyoshi
1957 Morita, Nobutaka, 6 dan Kyoshi
1958 Suzuki, Moriharu, 6 dan Kyoshi
1960 Kuwahara, Tetsuaki, 5 dan (21 years old!!!)
1962 Toda, Tadao, 5 dan (23 years old!!!)
1964 Toda, Tadao, 5 dan
1968 Yamazaki Masahira, 7 dan Kyoshi
1971 Kawazoe, Tetsuo, 4 dan (21 years old!!!)
1974 Yokoo, Eiji, 5 dan
1975 Kawazoe, Tetsuo, 5 dan
1976 Migita, Kohjiro, 4 dan
1980 Toyama, Mitsutoshi, 5 dan
1988 Hayashi, Akira, 6 dan Renshi

This is according to my records. Please let me know if any of this is inaccurate. But this would mean that non-police kenshi have won the AJKC 15 out of 50 time and 2 times in the last 25 years...

[AlexM]

Wow, thanks for finally answering one of my original questions. Took a few months (I'd forgotten I'd ever asked) but late is better than never.

I didn't think my thread would spwn such a discussion. Not that I'm complaining about it.

[bronxjragon]

Originally posted by stinkyKote


How about you sell the CD seperately on kendo-world.com? I think that would be an even more novel idea!:D

Agreed:alien: