Kendo/kenjutsu dojo in Brazil

[Sen2000]

Hi,


I'm looking for a kendo/kenjutsu dojo to train here in Brazil - São Paulo.

Can anyone point a good one?

I found this one www.niten.org.br (http://www.niten.org.br/) looks like it´s the best dojo around here and their sensei is a 7th dan, official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu and Suiyo Ryu and teach kenjutsu, iaijutsu, jojutsu, naginata, jitte e kusarigama.

Anyone can confirm this?

Thanks


Vinicius

[Lloromannic]

There was a thread on this and the consensus was that it was not good. Also on the thread there is a link to a thread on e-budo where the instituto niten goonies claimed Hyaku was not real and then withdrew from the forum without providing the information asked for.

[Sen2000]

I don't know...

It can't be a bad dojo as sensei Kishikawa is always been published in magazines and newspapers, he's a reference here in kendo and kenjutsu.

If he's a not a good sensei how he can be a official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu and Suiyo Ryu in Brazil?

[Lloromannic]

Here (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244&highlight=INSTITUTO+NITEN) is the thread. It contains the link to the e-budo thread. There it is established that they are not official representatives of the Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.

[Lloromannic]

I just noticed that I didn't give you any other dojos, sorry. Here (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4286&highlight=paolo) is one thread

[Sen2000]

Thanks for dojos info.

I just found the thread about dojos in sao paulo just after i post this new thread. Maybe i should be more carefull next time i start a new thread.

The post about be a representative is old 2002 and in the site www.niten.org.br (http://www.niten.org.br/) they still presents as official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu, so maybe they really are? Besides somewhere they posted that Niten Ichi Ryu senseis are comming next year.

Is there a way to know if they are official representants today?


Regards

[Lloromannic]

The post about be a representative is old 2002 and in the site www.niten.org.br (http://www.niten.org.br/) they still presents as official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu, so maybe they really are? Besides somewhere they posted that Niten Ichi Ryu senseis are comming next year.
I doubt it. It would take more than two years to get an menkyo-kaiden. specially with a background like this.


Is there a way to know if they are official representants today? Considering they said they would show their credentials but never did it I think not.

I'm hoping Hyaku ( Colin George William Hyakutake-Watkin :wink ) will be able to give more information. (sorry about the font size. It changed and I can't change it back)

[Sen2000]

A 7th dan kendo sensei can lie about this?

[Kendoka]

Hi,


I'm looking for a kendo/kenjutsu dojo to train here in Brazil - São Paulo.

Can anyone point a good one?

I found this one www.niten.org.br (http://www.niten.org.br/) looks like it´s the best dojo around here and their sensei is a 7th dan, official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu and Suiyo Ryu and teach kenjutsu, iaijutsu, jojutsu, naginata, jitte e kusarigama.

Anyone can confirm this?

Thanks


Vinicius

Conatct the Brazil Kendo Federation for dojo locations.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Sideline/7756/

[Sen2000]

I found this, posted by Niten Institute

here (http://globoforum.globo.com/Globo.com/GloboForum/0,6993,UY0-1219-13|217|4519040|1,00.html)

Plainly it says that Mr Colin is not a sensei but a low graduate student and has no authority inside Niten Ichi Ryu and he has a conturbated personality and desire to expose in public.

It says too, that sensei Kishikawa is a direct student of 10th Soke, Imai Massayuke sensei, and 11th Soke, Kiyonaga sensei. Sensei Kishikawa has the authorization to teach and represent Niten Ichi Ryu over all South America.

Something about Mr Colin asking formal excuses and about false afirmations too.

It says too, in 2005 the masters of Niten Ichi Ryu will come to Niten Institute. It seems like the masters Kaminoda and Baba has came to Brazil in 2002 and 2003.




Personaly, i'm confused!



Message in portuguese below

--------------------------------------
Recebi sua dúvida a sobre um link no site e-budo, onde uma pessoa que se entitula como sensei do Niten Ichi ryu faz afirmações negativas a respeito do Sensei Jorge Kishikawa.
A pessoa em questão é um inglês que vive no Japão chamado Colin. Ao contrário do que faz parecer em suas mensagens, é apenas um aluno pouco graduado do estilo, que tem uma profunda obsessão em ser o único ocidental a estudar este estilo. Esta pessoa não é Sensei, e não tem palavra dentro do Niten Ichi Ryu. Sua personalidade conturbada e desejo de se expor ao público como algo que não é já o colocaram em problemas diversas vezes.

O Sensei Jorge Kishikawa é aluno direto do 10° Soke do estilo, Imai Massayuke Sensei, e também do 11° Soke, Kiyonaga Sensei. O Sensei tem autorização destes Mestres para ensinar e representar o estilo em toda a américa do sul.

Em maio de 2002, por ocasião da visita do Sensei Jorge Kishikawa ao Japão, O sr. Colin teve que pedir formalmente desculpas na frente do Soke e dos outros senseis do estilo pelas mentiras que ele espalhou na internet. Sua atitude ao pedir desculpas não foi sincera, como tem mostrado através das afirmações falsas que continua fazendo.

Fatos como este fazem com que os Mestres japoneses reprovem o uso de fóruns e blogs para discutir assuntos do Budo. A Internet é usada como uma forma de enganar e caluniar praticantes sérios da espada.

Em 2005 está prevista a vinda dos Mestres do Niten Ichi Ryu ao Instituto Niten, onde os alunos do Niten. Somente um Sensei legítimo como o nosso poderia trazer mestres de tais magnitude ao nosso país, como já foi feito também em 2002 e 2003, por ocasião da vinda dos Mestres Kaminoda e Baba.

Caso tenha mais alguma dúvida, não hesite em nos contactar.

Atenciosamente
Sidharta Rezende
-----------------------------------------------------

[Hyaku]

Well it looks like I will have to post to briefly defend my position and make a few facts clear to bring things up to date. Although I would rather say nothing about the ryu's politics I would not wish that my credibility be questioned by not commenting and would like to clear up any confusion.

Well it must have been a ghost of me that represents the ryu in Canada with Soke and the same ghost that's going to France in a few weeks. Best tell the French senators and the mayor to call a priest for an exorcism

There was an inaugaration last year. http://www.hyoho.com/inuag.html

If people read this and look at the pictures the 11th Soke's name is different! This is the gentleman that has been taught and trained to be the successor. That rather large two meter stone at the foot of Kokura Jo says Iwami Toshio Genshin along with photographs.

A quick check with Nippon Budokan and the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai will confirm matters too. Mr Kiyonaga left some time ago for reasons I would not wish to go into to save him embarrasment. Now if Mr Kishikawa is a direct student of Imai soke why is Kiyonaga mentioned? Seems he is not up with the present situation.

We do not use the term Sensei in Hyoho Niten Ichiryu. We pledge allegiance to the 10th Soke still very much in control and his successor.
We do however call each other "Sensei" as a lot of the members are teachers of other other Budo within their own right.

Lastly and most important if a "few hours" practice qualifies one to represent the whole of South America that's quite a feat. All he needs now is the join the World Soke Council to make things complete. Either his students are saying things he is not aware of or he got hit on the head a few too many times at Kendo?

Imai Soke has however stated that has no control over what people do in their own countrys. So simply if Mr Kishikawa says he is representative of South America he gave the title to "himself".

Most of all we try and maintain and uphold a tradition in the ryu. All this silly talk does far from conform with what Musashi stood for.

Last of all, Sen thank you for translating what is being said behind our backs. Rest assured I will tell soke tomorrow. Is there a forum I can log on to and read anything else on this matter. I am quite anxious to respond in person.

On a lighter note Yagu gave a blank certificate to the Lord Hosokawa Tadatoshi. This he said indicates "with a blank sheet of paper the mind of the martial artist is transmitted".

In Japan or for that matter in any other country the proof is in the practice.
Most old master didn't give certificates anyway. The couldnt read or write!

[Sen2000]

Well, first i want to apologize Mr Colin for my previous message, now its clear to me that something is going wrong here in Brazil about kendo/kenjutsu.

I though the Niten Institute was the best dojo around here because Niten is everywhere in Brazil and all points to then, also it's a surprise to me that brazilian kendo federation has a hp at geocities (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Sideline/7756/) but after a search at http://registro.br/ I've found that cbk.org.br belongs to Kishikawa's Instituto Niten. A bit more little search and you discover that www.kendo.org.br (http://www.kendo.org.br) points to niten.org.br as the only dojo to train kendo and www.kendoonline.com.br (http://www.kendoonline.com.br) as a kendo suplier, guess who is the owner of the last?

Probably Kishikawa has the monopoly about kendo in Brazil.

Searching for brazilian kendo foruns I've found this one http://members.lycos.co.uk/kendofloripa/ where Niten Institute is considered a bad dojo, just a money maker dojo, and Kishikawa a mercenary. I can guess why, but now when they have something to say at the forum about Niten Institute and Kishikawa they say only "you know whatdojo i mean" and "you know who" or simply "JK".

Seems that there's a strugle betwen Brazilian Kendo Federation and Niten Institute?

My oppinion is, in this war the winner is Kishikawa's Niten Institute! Why? Because he has all the media attention today, and he is the reference in kendo and kenjutsu here in Brazil. For brazilian journalists there's only one kendo dojo, Niten Institute.

He say, through his students, that Mr Colin has "desire to expose in public". But now we can see that it's Kishikawa himself that has a desire to expose in public.

My final oppinion is. Niten Institute is a business not a kendo/kenjutsu dojo. Also a lot of students seems to be anime and manga fans so thats why he gave himself the title "official representative of Niten Ichi Ryu and Suiyo Ryu".

Now, I should look here http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Sideline/7756/ at brazilian kendo federation if i want to train kendo.

[Charlie]

Good research, Vinicius. I'm sorry to hear that's the situation. But doesn't Brazil have a large Japanese population, many of whom do not associate with Kishikawa? It doesn't help that he is a, what, 7th dan? Is he a very good kendoist?

[Sen2000]

I don't know what the japanese population in Brazil thinks about Kishikawa but if he has a strugle with Brazilian Kendo Federation, it may be possible that some japanese kendo sensei do not agree with Kishikawa?

Here (http://niten.org.br/senseijorge_kishikawa.htm) says that he is 10 times brazilian kendo champion and 3rd place in Tokyo world championship. 80 consectutives victories in brazilian championships.

So he's probably a good kendoist.

But he should be less arrogant and pay more respect to a member of a ryu he claim to represent, in this case the Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.

[Hyaku]

He say, through his students, that Mr Colin has "desire to expose in public". But now we can see that it's Kishikawa himself that has a desire to expose in public.

Well he is right in a way. I really do wish to try and promote the Hyoho Niten Ichiryu for the benefit of the ryu and people all over the world that want a chance to practice it. I don't see anything bad in that. Its certainly is not for my own gain. Also the problem is the rest of the people only speak Japanese so they push me into the position of a madoguchi (window).

Remember we don't actualy have a rank system.

But I do have plenty of ranks in other arts and would have to say that high ranks are "not" a sign a some kind of superior philosophy, concept or improved way of life that automatically comes with rank. I know lots of rather stupid go getting, arrogant people in high positions. If anything my move towards koryu was to get away from that. Of course they are here too. It's really a no win situation. You deal with them or "go find a cave".

[Sen2000]

Maybe he's not doing anything bad afterall. The arrogance and lack of respect may be from his madoguchi.

Maybe a little lie about be "official representative" is necessary to justify the name Niten Institute?

Hes opening new branchs everywhere in Brazil too, so his doing a big promotion for Niten Ichi Ryu, at least for those who can pay.

Maybe his main objective is to build a own Niten dojo in Brazil, so this can explain why he charge above average to teach?

And the kendoonline.com.br store? Well. hes a human too and need to pay bills to survive.

[Hyaku]

Maybe he's not doing anything bad afterall. The arrogance and lack of respect may be from his madoguchi.

Maybe a little lie about be "official representative" is necessary to justify the name Niten Institute?

He's opening new branchs everywhere in Brazil too, so his doing a big promotion for Niten Ichi Ryu, at least for those who can pay.

Maybe his main objective is to build a own Niten dojo in Brazil, so this can explain why he charge above average to teach?

And the kendoonline.com.br store? Well. hes a human too and need to pay bills to survive.

I used the word "promote" in a sense of nurture or encourage. We are not trying to sell it. Just a very small group of people here in Japan trying to continue a tradition. I would hope people in other countrys understood that and not use the word promote as in "sell".

[Sen2000]

I used the word "promote" in a sense of nurture or encourage. We are not trying to sell it. Just a very small group of people here in Japan trying to continue a tradition. I would hope people in other countrys understood that and not use the word promote as in "sell".
Ok, so they are doing something they shouldn't be doing.



I have a another point of view of the Niten Institute (NI).

They are not a dojo neither a business. They are more likely to a religious cult.

I will explain my point.

1) In some dubious religious cults (RC) the leader presents as the reborn form of Christ, Buddha, etc. It looks like they do compare Kishikawa with Miyamoto Musashi as Wenzel Bohm has posted here (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=9840&perpage=15&pagenumber=2) at e-budo.

2) In RCs their leaders are very charismatic and always have something to prove that he is The One. NI leader seems to be charismatic too, and he has a japanese face, a japanese name and 7th dan kendo. I don't know about others ranks in kenjutsu, iaijutsu, jojutsu, naginata, jitte and kusarigama.

3) In RCs they send their shepherds to spread their beliefs and his leader words and most important, collect money. NI is doing the same sending their followers (NIF) as you can see here (http://www.niten.org.br/unidades.htm) now they have more than 40 dojos around Brazil. I wonder how he can teach in more than 40 dojos... and Brazil is not a small country, and no railroad for passengers too.

4) RC followers are very fanatic peopple and they do follow their masters blindly. NIFs seems very fanatic too at e-budo or others forums specially when trashing others dojos like here (http://globoforum.globo.com/Globo.com/GloboForum/0,6993,UY0-1219-13|217|4452151|1,00.html).

[Lloromannic]

Maybe a little lie about be "official representative" is necessary to justify the name Niten Institute? It is not a little lie (Hey hyaku maybe you could sue them for difamation) and if he wants to be called the Niten Institute he could create his own ryu-ha as he is a "direct student" instead of claiming to be part of another school.


Hes opening new branchs everywhere in Brazil too, so his doing a big promotion for Niten Ichi Ryu, at least for those who can pay. So are Mc Donalds and Starbucks and they are both filth.


Maybe his main objective is to build a own Niten dojo in Brazil, so this can explain why he charge above average to teach? It is more likely that his main objective is to have loads of money


And the kendoonline.com.br store? Well. hes a human too and need to pay bills to survive. He gets quite enough money to pay his bills

In short: Niten Institute is the Starbucks of Kendo.

[Sidharta]

The messages of this forum came to our attention today, September 24th.

With great pain, we see again the name of our masters from Japan, our Institute and our Sensei being exposed in the internet by people without any consideration who insist in sladering people who makes a serious work.

Wishing to clarify, not to argue, I write this lines to the readers who seek for the truth behing so many strange affirmations.

I am the only person authorized by Jorge Kishikawa Sensei to post any information regarding our Institute .

The message in my name, copied to this forun by Vinicius Souza, was posted before in a Brazillian forum without my authorization. One person sent one question to our Institute, to what I aswered, but in any minute that person told that it was to be posted to the public. As you can read bellow, I restat what I said in that message, but to publish one particular e-mail without the knowledge of the author is, at least, innapropriate. Please not that I am not talking this about Vinicius, who only copied was already published, but about the person who posted it in first place.

As I said in that message, Hyakutake Colin-Watkin, the person who in many foruns make affirmation about our sensei legitness (sp?), is, as explainned, one student from the ryu in Japan whose opinions does not represents our sokes opinions. He has, in many occasions, exposed our soke to the public, about the soke's health state and private affairs. Mr. Colin had, in May 2002, to formally apologize in front of the Sokes, other senseis from the ryu, Jorge Kishikawa Sensei and Wenzel Bohm because of the lies that he spreads in the internet foruns. His attitude left the sokes with deeply disappointed. He is continually exposing the ryu and sokes to the general public.

Last but not least, we restat that Jorge Kishikawa Sensei has the authorization of the 10th Soke do Niten Ichi Ryu, Imai Massayuke Soke, to teach and represent the ryu in Brazil and South America. Our Sensei is very proud to bring to our more than 800 student the teachings of Musashi Sensei, and see all the positive results that this teachings has in their lives.

Again, I invite everyone who wish to know our work to make a visit to our Institute.

Unfortunatly I don't have time and resources to aswer and follow all the foruns, so I ask to who has any additional question, to send throught the contact form in our website. I am going to post this message with some minor modifications in other threads and foruns where this subject rised.
My apologies for the many errors in the english language.

Thanks for your time
Sidharta Rezende

[Kusarigama]

.

As I said in that message, Hyakutake Colin-Watkin, the person who in many foruns make affirmation about our sensei legitness (sp?), is, as explainned, one student from the ryu in Japan whose opinions does not represents our sokes opinions. He has, in many occasions, exposed our soke to the public, about the soke's health state and private affairs. Mr. Colin had, in May 2002, to formally apologize in front of the Sokes, other senseis from the ryu, Jorge Kishikawa Sensei and Wenzel Bohm because of the lies that he spreads in the internet foruns. His attitude left the sokes with deeply disappointed. He is continually exposing the ryu and sokes to the general public.


Sidharta Rezende

Oh, you mean the individual who traveled to Canada with Iwami Souke during August 2004 to Canada?

http://ejmas.com/tin/2004tin/tinart_taylor_3_0804.html

The same individual who is going to France in October 2004 with Imai Sensei and Iwami Souke?

http://us.nitenryu.org/

Yes, Mr. Colin WATKIN-HYAKUTAKE.

Very interesting, isn't it?

Britt

[Sen2000]

Wait a minute!

Sidharta, are you saying <here (http://globoforum.globo.com/Globo.com/GloboForum/0,6993,UY0-1219-13|217|4529752|1,00.html)> that Kishikawa do not allow his students to participate in budo forums, and these forums is been monitorated by you and if some of the Niten Institute students do participate and get caught he will be expelled?

So, are you the "Gestapo" of Niten Institute?

Seems to me like Niten Institute is trying to isolate their students with others outside. If Kishikawa is teaching some "secret" koryu and he don't want to expose it to anyone not trustful, why he has 800 students in more than 40 dojos? Isn't strange? Does he can really teach so many ryus (niten, suyio, shinto, etc...) to 800 students?

Wouldn't be more beneficial to a Niten Institute student be possible to learn from Kishikawa (the oficial rep of Niten Ichi Ryu) AND from a true member of that ryu?

Isn't a bit contradictory? The "general public" don't have to konw about what is studied and discussed inside Niten Institute only the members of the Institute. But, this "only" means 800 people! I could tell that Niten Institute is concerned about their students having access to true members of the ryus they're studing!

You said somewhere that others masters has visited Niten Institute, sensei Kaminnoda (?) and sensei Baba. I wonder if the person who was translating the senseis speach was the Kishikawa himself...


He is continually exposing the ryu and sokes to the general public.
I didn't understand about this, as the sokes and the Niten Ichi Ryu are exposed here http://www.hyoho.com/inuag.html

Others koryus and sokes are exposed too, here (http://www.koryubooks.com/index.html).

[IZA]

The messages of this forum came to our attention today, September 24th.

With great pain, we see again the name of our masters from Japan, our Institute and our Sensei being exposed in the internet by people without any consideration who insist in sladering people who makes a serious work.

Wishing to clarify, not to argue, I write this lines to the readers who seek for the truth behing so many strange affirmations.

I am the only person authorized by Jorge Kishikawa Sensei to post any information regarding our Institute .

The message in my name, copied to this forun by Vinicius Souza, was posted before in a Brazillian forum without my authorization. One person sent one question to our Institute, to what I aswered, but in any minute that person told that it was to be posted to the public. As you can read bellow, I restat what I said in that message, but to publish one particular e-mail without the knowledge of the author is, at least, innapropriate. Please not that I am not talking this about Vinicius, who only copied was already published, but about the person who posted it in first place.

As I said in that message, Hyakutake Colin-Watkin, the person who in many foruns make affirmation about our sensei legitness (sp?), is, as explainned, one student from the ryu in Japan whose opinions does not represents our sokes opinions. He has, in many occasions, exposed our soke to the public, about the soke's health state and private affairs. Mr. Colin had, in May 2002, to formally apologize in front of the Sokes, other senseis from the ryu, Jorge Kishikawa Sensei and Wenzel Bohm because of the lies that he spreads in the internet foruns. His attitude left the sokes with deeply disappointed. He is continually exposing the ryu and sokes to the general public.

Last but not least, we restat that Jorge Kishikawa Sensei has the authorization of the 10th Soke do Niten Ichi Ryu, Imai Massayuke Soke, to teach and represent the ryu in Brazil and South America. Our Sensei is very proud to bring to our more than 800 student the teachings of Musashi Sensei, and see all the positive results that this teachings has in their lives.

Again, I invite everyone who wish to know our work to make a visit to our Institute.

Unfortunatly I don't have time and resources to aswer and follow all the foruns, so I ask to who has any additional question, to send throught the contact form in our website. I am going to post this message with some minor modifications in other threads and foruns where this subject rised.
My apologies for the many errors in the english language.

Thanks for your time
Sidharta Rezende

Oi! Mr. Sidharta

What an unbelivable lair,your sensei said that?
Unbelivable lies...why wont you fly to Japan to Imai Masayuki soke's dojo and talk to him and maybe you will understand what Sasen is.

there was no OFFICIAL BRAZILIAN REPRESENTIVE during the HNIR ceremony,
here:
http://www.hyoho.com/inuag.html
hope your not blind and can read too.

here Hyakutake Sensei beside Iwami Soke:
http://ejmas.com/tin/2004tin/Niten04/IMG_9492sm.jpg
and
http://ejmas.com/tin/2004tin/Niten04/IMG_9492sm.jpg

Hyakutake Sensei went to Canada together with Imai Masayuki Soke, and Toshio Iwami Soke last year. Where is the Brazilian representative? dream on maybe thats what you get for watching to many Movies.


Mr.Sidharta wake up...go to Japan and ask Soke personally.

[IZA]

oopps double post

[Hyaku]

I really didn't want to post again. But here goes......

I must admit there are few lies flying about. Being accused myself of spreading lies based on a 2002 internet thread and keep having to read about me having made apologies rather ?isses me off. This is pure fabrication, but at the moment very little I can do about it. I myself would require a personal online apology for spreading such malicious rubbish.

The fact of the matter is I did go down to the dojo, sat and watched the full extent of these peoples capabilities. I was introduced to Kishikawa and Bohm and we politely bowed to each other with the usual Yoroshiku Onegaishimasu. Is mutual bowing a form of apology? News to me. Exactly what should I apologize for?

I did myself sent a message to the Niten org's message board asking them to ask their members to stop posting such drivel. The result was the post you see on here from Sidharta.

The simple fact is we now have study groups in other countries. They manage their own affairs. Yet I don't see anyone proclaiming themselves head of North America, Europe, South East Asia etc. With this it seems Mr Kishikawa's group and I have an irreconcilable difference of opinion.

There have been some international telephone calls made within the past few days to confirm the present status and hierarchy of the Ryu.

There are two Sensei's, you could say "three". The present Soke and his successor and Musashi. Musashi did not like brashness and displays of importance he thought they were both pretentious and vulgar. I know most of us are aware of that. Maybe they should print it in Portugese.

For the benefit of all concerned and in the hope that in future we can actually salvage something from this online mess I would respectfully ask that no one else contributes to the thread and would hope that the moderator might lock it down.

Of course my thanks to those that did come forward to try and put things straight and to the many emails I have received offering support.

[Sen2000]

....no apologies yet.

Maybe they will do personally in april 2005 here in Niten Institute dojo?




Oops! Sorry, no more posts!