Ittosai

[shotoblogger]

Have been looking for non-fiction works on Ittosai. Anyone know of a book or article-length biography in English? Thanks.

[Nanbanjin]

Have been looking for non-fiction works on Ittosai. Anyone know of a book or article-length biography in English? Thanks.

I don't think there are any. As far as I am aware Ittohsai is relatively neglected even by Japanese scholars. Why do you ask?

[shotoblogger]

I don't think there are any. As far as I am aware Ittohsai is relatively neglected even by Japanese scholars. Why do you ask?
I just enjoy reading about history. Maybe there's something about him in "Lives of Master Swordsmen," by Makoto Sugawara. I haven't been able to find this book, though. I can't find it listed on Amazon, which is a real surprise.

[nysamurai]

Check out an on-line bookseller called Alibris. I checked for you. They have it, several copies at various prices, and the descritpion notes Ittosai's name though to what extent he is covered I know not. Good luck!

[shotoblogger]

Check out an on-line bookseller called Alibris. I checked for you. They have it, several copies at various prices, and the descritpion notes Ittosai's name though to what extent he is covered I know not. Good luck!
Once when Alibris first opened I'd looked around there and had never been back. I was wondering why that was, if they have such a good selection, when I noticed Lives of Master Swordsmen is selling for $70-$160!! Oh well. Thank you, though, for your detective work. Maybe I'll get it for Christmas...

[Nanbanjin]

I just enjoy reading about history. Maybe there's something about him in "Lives of Master Swordsmen," by Makoto Sugawara. I haven't been able to find this book, though. I can't find it listed on Amazon, which is a real surprise.

Sorry, I got a little confused there.
I think the problem is that Ito Itosai Kagehisa never left a written legacy as was the case for Musashi, Yagyu and others.

Kotoda Yahei wrote "Ittosai Sensei Kenpo Sho" which roughly means "Ittohsai Sensei's Sword Method". I am not sure whether there is an English translation of this available.

The following URL has a little info on Ittohsai Sensei

http://www.sword.ne.jp/swordsmen/bushi/ittosai.html

[Hisham]

I ve read about Ittosai and his style of swordsmanship in The lives of master swordsmen, his style was mostly about technique ,no spiritual references whatsoever ,he was teaching the Tokugawa before Yagyu Munenori took his place .I don t remember who of the Yagyu s chalenged him to a friendly match up and backed off after seeing no opening in Ittosai s posture.I think his school is still alive, Itto ryu is its name if i m not mistaken.

[Bushidog]

That is correct, his Ryu is still alive and is called Ito Ryu (iai-jutsu). At our dojo in Holland we study his ryu.

[Masahiro]

his style was mostly about technique ,no spiritual references whatsoever ,he was teaching the Tokugawa before Yagyu Munenori took his place .I don t remember who of the Yagyu s chalenged him to a friendly match up and backed off after seeing no opening in Ittosai s posture.
Ittosai had only 2 students. He wasn't even alive during theTokugawa time. As for the spiritual intent of his technique, if you were to follow Ittosai's life, you would know that his technique does have a spiritual aspect to it just as all the other swordsmanship tend to do those days.

[Kingofmyrrh]

That is correct, his Ryu is still alive and is called Ito Ryu (iai-jutsu). At our dojo in Holland we study his ryu.
I didn't think it had any iai content..?

[Hisham]

Ittosai had only 2 students. He wasn't even alive during theTokugawa time.
I stand corrected it wasn't him that served the Tokugawa or encountered one of the Yagyu, it was Ono Tadaaki.
What little i know is that he was born in 1560, some say that he died in 1653 and some don't know when he passed away but he did live during the days of Yagyu Munenori and as far as i know he recomended his pupil Ono Tadaaki to serve the Tokugawa, which means that he did live at least till the beguining of the Tokugawa bakufu.

As for the spiritual intent of his technique, if you were to follow Ittosai's life, you would know that his technique does have a spiritual aspect to it just as all the other swordsmanship tend to do those days.
What i meant by no "spiritual" references is that there was no Zen (That aspect was added by Ono Tadaaki) and no esoterism to his practice but his own spiritual philosophy like the "Isshin Itto" or the one sword one spirit concept.

[Masahiro]

Actually, Ittosai didn't "recommend" Ono Tadaaki to the Tokugawa. if you were merely "restating" things posted on "http://www.sword.ne.jp/swordsmen/bushi/ono.html". Please note that the site serves only as a guide and not as absolute truth to the history. I recall reading somewhere that Ittosai walked into the mountains after overseeing the duel between Zenki and Tenzen. I've also done indepth research about Ittosai's life, and I haven't found a reference that stated Ittosai's recommendation. Rather, I found that Tadaaki was "appointed" the "kenjutsu shinan-yaku"(instructor in swordsmanship) by Tokugawa Hidetada himself. While Yagyu Munenori was also another instructor appointed by Ieyasu himself. Please correct me if i am wrong. The website you used is largely correct on their facts but sometime "vague". As for the spiritual part of Ittoryu, Ittosai spend many days and many nights meditating in the Temples of certain Deities waiting for some sort of "enlightened". Having no luck at all, in the final night he was at the temple. A few robbers attempted to kill him, and this is the time when he gained the profound insight to one of his "divine" techniques. Zen isn't the only channel through which one seeks "spiritual" advancements.

[Bushidog]

I didn't think it had any iai content..?

Correct (nowadays), but why not combine with Iai?
A sword should be drawn before use, right?
And why not practise Itto with a real sword (or Iaito)?

[Hisham]

Actually, Ittosai didn't "recommend" Ono Tadaaki to the Tokugawa. if you were merely "restating" things posted on "http://www.sword.ne.jp/swordsmen/bushi/ono.html". Please note that the site serves only as a guide and not as absolute truth to the history. I recall reading somewhere that Ittosai walked into the mountains after overseeing the duel between Zenki and Tenzen.
Actually no, most of what i said was what i recall from reading Lives of Master Swordsmen plus what i've read in a french website a while ago, but of course it's not something i would take for a final truth as to Ittosai's life.

I've also done indepth research about Ittosai's life, and I haven't found a reference that stated Ittosai's recommendation. Rather, I found that Tadaaki was "appointed" the "kenjutsu shinan-yaku"(instructor in swordsmanship) by Tokugawa Hidetada himself. While Yagyu Munenori was also another instructor appointed by Ieyasu himself. Just for the record i haven't done an indepth research since i don't read japanese but i'm always curious to know that is why i tried to argue with what little info i had.
Back to the subject, so what you're saying is that Tadaaki served the Tokugawa at the same time as Munenori or am i mistaken?

Please correct me if i am wrong. The website you used is largely correct on their facts but sometime "vague". I visited that website, and you're not wrong the info there isn't something that would quench the curiosity of someone who would want to know any of the swordsmen mentioned there in a detailed manner.

As for the spiritual part of Ittoryu, Ittosai spend many days and many nights meditating in the Temples of certain Deities waiting for some sort of "enlightened". Having no luck at all, in the final night he was at the temple. A few robbers attempted to kill him, and this is the time when he gained the profound insight to one of his "divine" techniques. I did read about that.

Zen isn't the only channel through which one seeks "spiritual" advancements. I mentioned Zen as an example of an already established spiritual "method", and there's no denying the fact that there are many roads leading to the same sumit.

It would've been great if Kenji Tokitsu included Ittosai in his "Studies on japanese master swordsmen" articles.

[Hisham]

I didn't think it had any iai content..?

Hey King, i did a google search about Itto ryu and i found this (http://www.bujinkanwakodojo.com/bwd_battojutsu.html).

[Paikea]

Hey King, i did a google search about Itto ryu and i found this (http://www.bujinkanwakodojo.com/bwd_battojutsu.html).Hmmm.."water warriors", "ninjas", the Jolly Roger logo and, ...wait for it... camoflage and do-rags.

Pass.

[Hisham]

Yeah i know what you're talking about but i give them the benefit of the doubt since i've read on E-budo that the ninpo/ninjutsu dojos authorized by Mr Hatsumi are legitimate ones.
But anyway the point of posting the link is that they mention Enshin Itto ryu "Battojutsu" which appears according to what is said here (http://www.bujinkanwakodojo.com/bwd_battojutsu.html) to be a koryu, the question is, is it linked to the original Itto ryu? If it is that would answer king's question i guess.

[Kingofmyrrh]

Hey King, i did a google search about Itto ryu and i found this (http://www.bujinkanwakodojo.com/bwd_battojutsu.html).
That dojo looks like a bit of a dodgy one to me. The Machida guy they mention does exist, but his name is 町田剣心斎 which sounds pretty dodgy to me. Also the only reference I could find to him is in the Japanese equivalent of `black belt`. I`ve never heard of an `enshin branch` either.
As it happens though, I did find a single, solitary, legitimate-looking dojo that claims to offer itto ryu battojutsu. they also claim to offer itto ryu shinai stuff as well, however, so maybe they`re just a hybrid, although they do claim to be from the Hokushin branch.
Anyway, I might well be wrong, never much cared for koryu.

[Bushidog]

As it happens though, I did find a single, solitary, legitimate-looking dojo that claims to offer itto ryu battojutsu. they also claim to offer itto ryu shinai stuff as well, ...

Do you still have the link ?

[Kingofmyrrh]

Do you still have the link ?
http://www.dtpro.co.jp/genbukan/

Although when I look more carefully, I see that they have gradings every month... doesn't quite sound right. Also, I can't find any reference to their teacher or his teacher anywhere else. Still, it might be legit I suppose. Well, I'm not likely to set foot in there, but if anyone else does they can tell us all about it.

[Kenshi]

ono-ha itto ryu (cant comment on the others like the Hokushin Itto ryu dojo link that king posted) does in fact have a batto portion which is - as far as i know - barely practised (which represents its worth). its not "batto" in the style of jikiden or eishin ryu (etc) iaido that we all recognise however. if you know the jikiden "tachi uchi no kurai" syllabus then you will know a little bit more about what i am talking about. in fact - i was told - that this "tachi uchi no kurai" was made using the OHIR batto portion.

King.... when i come over to your pad in tokyo i will bring some visual evidence...

[Kingofmyrrh]

I look forward to it. You'll have to bring me some onigote to cuddle up at night with as well. I haven't actually moved in yet, but I should be there from around the beginning of November. Although I seriously recommend waiting until after I get my first bonus (sometime in December). I'm practically destitute at the moment!
Keishicho tomorrow morning. I'll send you an email report!

[KenShi_JoB]

Hokushin itto ryu iai portion came from Shin tamiya ryu. If I remember correctly.

[Gessho]

Hey King, i did a google search about Itto ryu and i found this (http://www.bujinkanwakodojo.com/bwd_battojutsu.html).

Just what we need: more heavy-metal ninjutsu!

[Yagyuhoo]

Happened on this thread by accident. Sugawara's Lives of Master Swordsmen is only available from the publisher. There is lots of info on Ittosai, Tadaaki and Tesshu...and much more. Excellent, excellent boook.

Homepage:http://www.theeast.co.jp/

Book:http://www.theeast.co.jp/LivesofMasterS.htm