Dou-uchi

[cklin]

I was just wondering what people think of trapping an opponent's shinai w/ your arms to negate a dou-uchi?

I think this is a very bad habit, especially when done during jigeiko, but this is something I see everywhere. Sometimes people even do it to the point where they don't let go...

My point is, if you've to negate the dou-uchi by trapping it, it demonstrates (1) that you should have been hit anyway and, in a way, (2) that you are refusing to admit it...

After all, isn't keiko where you should be take your hits and learning from them?

(Of course, it could also point out to the person hitting dou that her/his strike has wrong timing/distance/etc.)

[Ares2907]

zettai dame. This is a no-no. If I am shinpanning a shiai and I see it, I give a warning and if it happens again the offender gets a hansoku. If it happens during keiko and my aite does it, I either have a word to them about it, or do something that makes it very difficult for them to do it (such as kiri-otoshi do). You'd be surprised how high some people lift their hands when they are convinced you are going for men. Hiki do is also good given that the shinai generally isn't on the target long enough to be trapped by anyone.
Incidentally, I've never encountered this from anyone above shodan level so it would appear to be a thing that raw-beginners employ.
imho if you want to point out problems with distance/timing there are much better ways to go about it. The only place I can see it being okay is if you score someone in the armpit and they want to have words with you about it 'right now'.

[Critical_Bill]

some people hunker down their elbow to block a do too.
This however invariably leads to a black, blue and swollen elbow :), never the less, a friend of mine actually did that an entire weekend during a competition, and in my mind not only did his arm look like a picasso, but he perpetuated a bad habit instead of trying to "fix" it by figuring out why there was a Do opening all the time.
As for people locking a shinai in their armpit, i've rarely had that happen, but if someone repeatedly did that i'd say Ares is full on, tell them or show them :)

[ben]

I do it sometimes in order to show my opponent that their attack stalled. It is impossible to 'trap' a dou that has speed and good follow-through so as an instructional tool it has some use. As a waza in shiai or jigeiko though I agree with Ares. I think it goes in the same basket as mukae-zuki.

Re- stopping dou with a "hunkered-down" elbow: I think that's OK. Better to receive do on the muscles of the forearm than the bone of your elbow! Although my definition of hunkered down is not to have moved in the first place. It's amazing how easy it is to get people to open their do simply by showing them you're going to do it, because they're too scared to have their arm anywhere near it.

Of course if you're *really* good, you can hit do even when your opponent is in kamae :)

b

[munenmuso]

Just don't let your sensei see you do that, my sensei is from the old school. He doesn't want to see our heads bending on any sides to avoid menuchi, much more seeing us using any parts of our body to evade or block any strike. He'll say in poor English,"if real sword, you die" otherwise "die with honor" meaning its better to fall in the hands of a worthy opponent. It's much better to accept the strike and learn from it, this is the advantage of a dojo, we die many times and live again to learn.Well in a real battlefield, we only have one chance.

For me, I don't want to go home with a bruised armpit or elbow. Instead, I used the hilt of my sword if my opponent has a fast reflex esp in douchi. Hitting my tsuka in between my hands is a more considerable option than using my arm.:)

munenmuso

[Ares2907]

Actually, if you're feeling flamboyant, you can block a do cut by letting go of the shinai with your left hand and moving your right hand down and to the right, catching the blow on the tsuka (like a reverse kodachi sanbonme).
I wouldn't try catching it on the tsuka if I had both hands on. Broken fingers hurt a lot more than a welt on the forearm.

[munenmuso]

With the right position of your hands while doing this block, your fingers are protected from injuries from a douchi.What is actually exposed are the back of your hands and the chance of broken fingers is unlikely. I wear a kote in the first place. He he he.:)

In fact this kind of blocking encompasses all targets from men, kote and do at the same time. But blocking with the right hand alone using your tsuka? Ok, I'll try it sometimes. I only block with one hand if I'm sure it will hit near but above the tsuba. Thanks....

[Ares2907]

Sounds like your kote-buton would be exposed. I can't envisage another way of going about it. If you have enough time to twist your hands out and block like that, you probably have enough time for some sort of otoshi technique or similar, which would probably be far more beneficial to you than just blocking.
(obviously the one-handed block isn't all that effective either, but if you're doing it, you're just showing off, so it's not so bad)

[KhawMengLee]

Well, if you catch the shinai during a dou strike and trap it under your arm it is really to your disadvantage. Isn't the rule in shiai that while any part of your opponent's shinai touches you, your strikes aren't valid?

MENG

[munenmuso]

I agree that blocking with one hand is not exactly sound but sometimes reflex demands it as a split second reaction esp after tsuba tserai and your opponent goes fro the kote or do. So its not just a case of showing off but a necessity....

[Critical_Bill]

i try to either push of quickly or do a hiki technique from tsuba tserai, it's a very hairy place to get out of.

[JSchmidt]

"Of course if you're *really* good, you can hit do even when your opponent is in kamae"

It won't score,though. You have to make your opponent lift his arms in order for a do to score.

As for blue elbows, people keep trying to do kaeshi-do when I'm doing jodan...problem is that with jodan-waza, your right arm goes down your side, so they just pummel my elbow alot.

Jakob

[Ares2907]

Get them to do do kaeshi gyaku do. works a whole lot better.

[JSchmidt]

I've tried:D. I think for a lot of people, they don't even think about it..it's just an automatic reaction.

Jakob

[KATSUJIN]

i used to trapp people's shinai during keiko when i was a beginner...due to excessive dependency on defense and reflex...i am now trying to cut the men before they can finish executing the do.....in this way....not only will i cancel their do-uchi...i also improve my forward motion and men cut...