HELP!!! MEN-UCHI major problems!

[Omega]

Ok every sensei's been telling me different stories about how to really do a proper menuchi and now i'm SOOOO CONFUSED!!! Can somebody please tell me exactly the correct steps of a menuchi? Is it shinai
DDF
up, shinai and foot striking out together OR is it shinai up, foot out, and than strike? please please help me! :confused:Can someone write a detailed step by step instruction for me or something? Thanks!

[Critical_Bill]

well, for an Ippon you neek the sword, body (foot) and kiai at the same time, however for some warmup exercises some senseis might do other stuff just to practise body coordination, i.e right foot forward and shinai up, then men cut and left foot forwards at the same time, as i said, this is for warmups and coordination practise.

[JSchmidt]

Depends on how fast your hands and feet are!. For most people their hands are faster, so they need to move their feet before their hands....and again, it also depends on how big your cut is.
Do it the way your most regular teacher tells you, but also try the other ways.

Jakob

[Critical_Bill]

basically every sensei has his/her "right way of doing it"
even though they may seem to have very different ways of doing things, there are lots of things to be learned by trying to aquire what is taught :)

[Confound]

Think of it like a pair of scissors, your feet and legs being the blades, and your hands being the handles. When your legs start to move, your arms have to move too. It should all go together in a fluid motion. However, the 'kihon' way is to raise the right foot as the hands are being raised, and the moment your swing shifts into a forward cut, move forward.

it is very important that the strike of your shinai against the target and your foot against the floor are at the same time. it isn't easy, but if you learn it correctly in the beginning, you will have great amusement watching other people struggle to fix it when they have to learn oji-waza or other advanced techniques. If you get it right the first time, there will be no need to unlearn a bad habit.

c

[AlexM]

Try to make sure that it's done in one fluid motion. Don't break it down into visible steps.

Make sure that your foot hits the ground at the same time that your shinai hits the opponent. Oh, and concentrate on using your left arm to swing. When I do a "big" men uchi (as opposed to the smaller ones done in shiai) I usually have to move my arms up before I move forward (i.e. my arms are faster than the rest of my body). Like Mr. Schimdt said it's a question of the relative speed of the body parts you're trying to coordinate. But it's not 1-2-3 movements. Once you start it, you start it. Everyone eventually gets it (hell even I did), it just requires practice.

BTW, all this is pretty much valid for all hits (left arm, fluid motion, foot-hit coordination)
I'll shut up now.

Umm, just how many sensei do you have?

[Omega]

Oh man, u guys have been great! Its sooo helpful! But right now, my sensei is telling me to do it this way: raise shinai and right foot forward at the same time. Strike with left foot going forward at the same time. Can someone tell me if this is "RIGHT OR WRONG?" Cuz i know its a hard habit to break if its wrong in the first place. Thanks again guys!

[Confound]

Trust your sensei. unless it's some sho-dan or kyu-ranked goofball.

c

[Hyaku]

As everyone says you have to produce kikentai-ichi and movements must be fluid.

Fundamentaly cuts should be big and clean. Problem is if someone is in front of you they are immediately aware of your intentions as soon as your kensaki leaves chudan kamae.

So it takes years of practice to produce a good strong cut that has been pressed forward with the opponent being aware of it. One of Oasa Yuji's (Judan) students explained it to me as being a sort of Tsuki-men technique.

Maybe a bit too much for you at your stage when you are still trying to co-ordinate, but its something to keep in your mind as you progress.

Lots of suburi will help.

Hyaku

Êhttp://www.sword.shorturl.com

[ben]

To produce kikentainoichi your RIGHT foot must come down *BOOM!* at the same time as your SHINAI connects with your opponent's men *PON!* and your KIAI comes out of you mouth *MEEEEEEN!* (that's not "meeeen" obviously, but a long "men" :s). This is sometimes called 'cutting in the timing of one'.

The other way of doing men is only for suburi and kirikaeshi, and that is the way your sensei has taught you. It is cutting in the timing of "two", ie 1) lift up and step forward on right, 2) bring shinai down and left foot up together.

If yo've only been doing kendo for a matter of weeks then this way is right. But as soon as you have to start cutting and following through, you will need to learn do it in "one timing" as well.

The two methods conflict a little, but are not contradictory. You must learn both.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by AlexM
I usually have to move my arms up before I move forward (i.e. my arms are faster than the rest of my body).
That means your arms are slower, which is the normal thing for beginners. I usually advise beginners who are learning fumikomi men to wait until their left hand is eye level on the forward part of the swing before stepping onto the right foot. This concept really helps them get the initial timing down. Your feet are way faster than your swing for a long time, especially for large techniques.

To the original poster: first you learn suburi timing, which is raise the shinai as the right foot comes up, then bring it down as the left foot comes forward. In this case your right foot slides. Then when you learn fumikomi-men (where the right foot stomps) the shinai hits the men as the right foot hits the floor. If you do kiri-kaeshi you combine these timings (the straight cuts are the stomping kind, the diagonal ones are suburi-style). Because you're new these timings seem completely opposite but as you gain more practice you'll see that they are closely related. In the end it's a matter of timing your body with your sword.

[Hagakure]

My sensei is a frm advocate of raising the shinai and the foot at the same time and transfering all your weight forwards as the shinai travels down. If you can get your tenouchi right then you timing should be right on. It's very easy when you picture it in your head, but it's harder when forcing the body

I'm a big fan of Hyaku's advice regarding suburi. Gradually increase the number you do and you will definitely see an improvement in your timing as well as control.

Make sure you try hard and develoup well early. Believe me, it's alot harder to break the bad habit later.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Hagakure
My sensei is a frm advocate of raising the shinai and the foot at the same time and transfering all your weight forwards as the shinai travels down.
For beginners that tends to lead to a goose-stepping style of kendo where the right foot is raised too high. Inefficient movement and injury-prone. As people get better their timing changes and the whole motion of the swing can happen as the right foot is going forwards.

[bukowski]

There is a very simple way to learn the timing and such for a basic men. 1) Get into a proper stance, allow yourself the time to find the proper balance. Then, allow yourself to begin to fall down. When you reach the point that will allow gravity to take over (and normally fall on your face) kick out in the stomping motion with your right foot. Try this a few times, and then combine the "catching yourself" motion with the men swing of the shinai. Practice this alot and you will see a difference. Also, you can combine this to practice distancing as well. The footwork on a basic men should carry you a decent distance. A good way to practice the "falling down" technique is place two pieces of tape on the floor, each about 3 and 1/2 feet apart. Try to reach the other piece of tape when moving forward.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by bukowski
There is a very simple way to learn the timing and such for a basic men. 1) Get into a proper stance, allow yourself the time to find the proper balance. Then, allow yourself to begin to fall down. When you reach the point that will allow gravity to take over (and normally fall on your face) kick out in the stomping motion with your right foot.
I'd advise against this. For one thing, you're not really practising the timing here, just the stomp. It's the timing that gives everybody trouble - most people don't have a problem with the stomping bit. For another, this emphasizes the idea of "kicking out" the right foot. Again, this can lead to goose-stepping kendo. The idea should be more to drive forward with the left foot than kick out with the right. The sound is secondary to the concept that you are driving forward and landing your body on that foot.