Police and kendo

[Achilles]

When I discuss kendo with my compatriots here in the states, they always talk about the Japanese police as if their kendo is incredibly fearsome and even dangerous. Even the Japanese expats. living here say they would never deign to practice with Japanese cops.

Is this true? I mean, I understand that they are the best the sport has to offer. But people are people and kendo is kendo. Is it true that the Japanese police are playing a different game and that if I were ever to travel over there I should avoid practicing with them (assuming I even got the chance)?

[lucian]

I heard that japanese police are allowed to trip/sweep each other in a shiai?
i may be getting my leg pulled on this but that sounds fun

[alexpollijr]

My sensei here in Brazil used to practice in the metropolitan police of Kyoto. He told us that yes, it's valid to trip the legs of the opponent in tai-atari. Also, they fight for one point only, not two out of three. One strike meant death to the samurai, he says.

When outside Japan, he abids by the rules of the federation, but in Japan he abids by the police rules

Best,

Alex Polli

[lucian]

I dont suppose any one has a link to the police rules
or a book on them as i would like to have a go at that

[Matthew]

I have been fortunate enough to train with police sensei who have visited our dojo. My impression of them has been hard arses on the dojo floor and wonderful people off the dojo floor. In general, they have always been generous with their teaching. I have never been tripped or anything of that nature but have heard the same kind of stories.

For whatever reason, the police do seem to train in a hard manner - I dont know whether they are any different from other groups in Japan because I haven't trained in Japan.

If you look at kendo as training your self to perform in extremes then the hard kind of training they seem to do will help you achieve that.

To end, I have never had any reason to be scared or worried that I might be exposed to some kind of danger by training with a police sensei.

Matthew

[Ian Russell]

Here are some enlightening threads @ e-budo that are worth a read:

Kendo, the 18th-Century Way? (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7676)
Old School Kendo (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7508)

Mr. Hartman has trained with Japanese riot squad police. Mr. Don Cunningham has also practiced with police kendo clubs. Theirs, and others', posts in the above threads are quite an interesting read.

[Floberg]

I can also agree with Matthew.
I had the pleasure to practise with the Kyoto Police a few years ago.
That was the hardest practise I have ever attended, but at the same time the best ever.

(think being in the same group as several national-team members, a world champion; Takahashi, and their sensei....THATS PRACTISE!)

And I never saw any tripping or any other "dirty" moves.

Also they were the most wonderful people off the dojo floor. Everybody in the dojo checked that I was ok after practise(I was a little bit tired....), and invited me to join dinner after practise. Plus beer drinking afterwards.... :D

/Andreas

ps. I just love Kyoto, and wouldn´t hesitate to move there if I got the chance!

[mkomoto]

A lot of interesting submissions from everyone. I'll take a look at those postings in e-budo as Mr. Russell suggested. Thanks to all.

Just a few more historical points about police use of kendo. I had already gone into it a little in the "kata" topic, so sorry to reiterate: After the Meiji restoration, some samurai revolted due changes that were being made (one aspect the dismantling of the class system, ending wearing of swords, etc..) In the course of suppressing that revolution, swords and traditional weapons were used in addition to rifles and cannons. Up to this time, the Meiji gov't was discarding the traditional bujutsu, preferring instead to develop modern western-style military and police. However, quelling the rebellion with swords provided the bujutsu-stalwarts within Keishichou, or the Tokyo Metropolitan Police (TMP), with a sufficient argument for the implementation of a bujutsu curriculum. Since that time on, the police have had strong, direct relationship with kendo. The basis for the present Nippon Kendo Kata have their roots in the formation of the first curricula for instruction of the cadre, the use of the dan system (adopted from Jigoro Kano�fs Judo,) and the original implementation of the Kyuu-system are directly the result of TMP use. One other eventual development is the Keishichou Kata, one of which includes a body-check, knocking-over the opponent leading to a decapitation cut to the down-on-all-fours opponent.

Indeed, the original purpose of police kendo was for �gpractical�h purposes. With this history, the practice of budo is remains intertwined with the very existence of Japan�fs modern police. Although some policemen select other activities for their physical activity, many patrolman-level officers are practicing kendo as their primary physical training. In order to facilitate their training, and leadership of the required practice of kendo (or judo) in the police academies, a cadre of teachers are maintained as a separate and distinct specialty. In addition, all departments maintain special corps including kidou-tai, or riot police. Commonly, these special officers train extensively in kendo or judo. In the special cases of Tokyo, Kanagawa, and Osaka prefectures, special units are exclusively deployed for kendo training, tournaments, and rotations to field departments for kendo related activities. The groups of selected officers are sometimes referred to as the �gTokuren�h or Special Group as well. The winner of last year's all Japan tournament, Mr. Iwasa, is a Keishichou police officer, the previous year's champ (and World Champ) Mr. Eiga is a policeman from Hokkaido, the previous champ of seven times, Mr. Masahiro Miyazaki is a Kanagawa-ken police officer, and so on.

As for the use of tripping and knock-downs, I cannot refer to any rulebook and I am not sure one exists (I�fll check in the coming days.); however, it may be a more lax (!) interpretation of the no tripping rule in the AJKF and IKF rule books. I have seen and engaged in this kind of exchange. Perhaps a little different that where the imagination might take one, these engagements should not be pictured as a sumo bouts of pushing around, nor judo matches with intricate or combination techniques. On the contrary, tripping usually takes the form of a quick, simple foot block that off balances the opponent, creating an opportunity to use a valid strike. Also, they are not used extensively, being somewhat an unusual sight.

Finally, I�fll mention that even though this type of practice may have some appeal for some, falling on a wooden doujou floor, even for the seasoned judo or aikido man/woman is a dangerous situation. A head injury is potentially fatal, and although not as serious, who needs a twisted ankle, knee, broken wrist, collar bone, etc.? Even though one might be able to endure this type of practice, what about their training partner? To everyone: I highly recommend against engaging this type of practice in any case.

Thanks to all. If anyone has anything to add, we look forward to hearing from you.

[Hyaku]

I did write about this on the ebudo threads but did no mention that tripping was previously allowed in police kendo shia. But talking to police dojo teachers, nowadays it would be a hansoku.

I have to agree with Komoto san that downing a person is dangerous. Particularly if you tai-atari at the point where the body is in a high position before the hips are dropped. The back of the head is of course vulnerable, a this is the first part of the body to impact as they do a severe backwards flip.

Also the fact that the person should not be moved and the men himo make it difficult to remove the men under such circumstances to effect first aid.

Once a year or more the police hold a Taihojutsu taikai. Uniforms are usually all white for this occasion. Its a sort of anything goes with a mixture of judo, karate, tanto, shinai etc. It is this training that perhaps should not be confused with general Kendo.

One thing about tripping under these circumstances is that the people in question do know how to fall when thrown.

Lets hope some of these things come in useful if they have to handle some particularly violent soccers fans. Somehow I doubt it.

Hyaku

[GMason]

Hi everyone,

The only time I've ever come across triping or anything resembling a throw was, in a University Dojo in Kyoto. The sensei was training with an Australian student who hadn't been training very long, the sensei lost his shinai (I think maybe dilberatly as they where the only two peple left fencing at the end of the session) when he lost his shinai he jumped on the student and started grappling with him, much to the enjoyment of everyone watching. Eventually he brought the student down to the floor with a controled bump. I was later told that the sensei is also quite a high dan grade in Judo. So he obviously knew what he was doing.

I had heard of this happening but had never seen it before. Looks fun as I used to practice Judo and would like to see how I would be able to incorperate throws or the same tactics used in Judo.