Pressure

[GMason]

Hi all,

I have recenlty passed my Nidan, and I am now starting to think about my next step in improving my Kendo and taking it to the next level.

After speaking to my Sensei and Sempai's (Over a few Beers of course!! :D ) they informed my that I am too busy. Technically there are no problems (Well that's not true there are always problems but they will get better with Practice Practice Practice).

They have told me I now have to develop a smart attack i.e be still impose your presence, build up pressure and create an opening for my self instead of attack attack attack.

I am finding this quie a difficult thing to develop. Aganist lower grades I don't have to much trouble. Hold centre and don't move till I want to cut (The look on their faces is a picture.... Why isn't he moving surely he should be moving so I can cut him ???) But the main problem I' m having is developing this against people of the same or greater level. Anybody got any pearl's of wisdom they can instill on me ???

I've got used to the continual pounding I am taking now as the higher grades beat me to the cut or read exactly what I am doing that doesn't really bother me (anymore !!!) it is just how I can get better and start to impose my existance :D & the fact that I am actually on the other end of the shinai.

[ben]

GM -Congrats on your ni-dan. When you find out what pressure is, and how to put it into words so that others can understand - let me know will you? I'm still trying to work it out. (There was a thread about this once before somewhere - buggered if I can be bothered trawling through the archives to find it tho'.)

Maybe I can put it like this. Pressure, seme, kigurai they're all kendo intangibles, but they all flow from one thing - unshakeable confidence in your own technique. The dilemma is that we can't advance without feeling doubt and dissatisfaction with our kendo. This is what drives our development. Find a way of accommodating that paradox within your kendo and you will necessarily become a great kendoka.

:)
b

[GMason]

Thanks for the reply Ben

Thanks, I'm still on a high. I've just reached the point where I've realised I have an ego again...... (Something else to try and change) It dawned on me yesterday that I was struting about saying look at me I'm a Nidan, and had to stop myself. But a quick pounding from one of my sempai brought it all back in to line :D

I know what you mean about pressure, it's one of those strange things. I know when people are putting pressure on me, but I can't describe how they are doing it.

When you describe pressure that is sounds so simple :) . I think it might have to be a trip back to basics for me then.

Sonkyo, Pressure......Seme..... Men !!!!!!

Again sound easy but I'll be buggered if I can get the response I need.

We regards to confidence in technique. I totaly agree. You need to be 100% confident in your technique. It's amazing how just being sure you are going to cut someone gives you that inch extra on your cut.

At the Beginning of this year I went to Kyoto for a couple of weeks, and came back super confident. It worked wonders for my Kendo. But. I have slipped back into a bit of self doubt. But I guess that is all part of kigurai.

[JSchmidt]

Tricky:)..I'm only starting to scratch the surface of it and it's one of the things I've learned (to appreciate) from doing jodan and have taken into my chudan as well.
It's mainly psychological. You can't apply pressure without confidence. Confidence that you are in control and that you are about to strike at any moment. You need to feel that you are pushing the opponent, even if you are not moving. You need to feel that you are able to deal with anything the opponent can throw at you..and again..any movement you make is very clearly with intend to attack the opponent.
Unfortunatly it also requires very quick and accurate footwork, in order to follow up all yours and the opponents actions which is where I'm failing now :)
(I can get the opponent to step back, but my feet are not always quick enough to take advantage of it).
I don't know your kendo, but I would start with 'never go backwards' as a mantra.

Jakob

[GMason]

Hmmm.... Jakob...I know what you mean.

I've seen/fenced many people who fence from Jodan, But I have only ever really seen about four people who do it well.

Alot of Jodan fencers seem to me moving so much that they just don't seem confident in there Kendo at all. A good Jodan as far as I'm concerned (This is my opinion so please don't flame me if you disagree). Should be big, straight and still. The fencer should be as you say brimming confidence, and giving off the image of I'm am going to cut you and there is nothing you can do about it.

This is somthing I know I have to do but have real problems getting across in my Kendo. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with fencing and and nerves. I very rarely go backwards unless using Kiashi seme (SP). It's just I find it hard to impose my confidance and will on the keiko.

I think I have explained that right.:p

[JSchmidt]

"It's just I find it hard to impose my confidance and will on the keiko."

Maybe start with yourself and to a large extend ignore the opponent?. Stand up from sonkyo and say 'This is my kendo.This is what I do'. (While that was the advice I was given when I started jodan, it applies to chudan as well).

Jakob

[GMason]

I think that is something I will have to work on, as with everything in Kendo. There is no quick answer is there. Just the same old answer.



Practice Practice Practice........... and then more PRACTICE !!!!!

Cheers

Mate

I will keep a look out for you at the BKA seminar's. We'll have to have a keiko.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You don't need the pressure quite so much for sandan. What you need to do is show that you understand and take advantage of opportunities - both ones you create and ones your opponent gives you. Shodan-nidan it's enough to just wail away on your own initiative. Sandan you should show more knowledge of maai and opportunity. When you try yondan, then you have to demonstrate pressure and the concept of managing the opponent and controlling the fight.

[GMason]

Neil,

Opportunity and pressure surely, it is difficult to have one with out the other, and the whole reason for exerting pressure on someone is to create that all important opening.

I would have thought with pressure appears opportunity ???

:D I know what you mean, I'm probably just be pedantic.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by GMason
Opportunity and pressure surely, it is difficult to have one with out the other, and the whole reason for exerting pressure on someone is to create that all important opening.

There's seme and then there's seme, neh?

[GMason]

If I understand what your getting at.....

There are three types of Seme

Seme - With the Sword

Seme - With the body

Seme - With the Mind

So I guess for Sandan Seme with the Body & Seme with the Sword.

And then for Yondan Seme with the mind.

Yes ?? / No ??

These are all aspects of Seme I would love to be able to master but I guess there are 7th & 8th Dans out there still saying exactly the same thing

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Well for sandan I honestly think you don't need to display a whole ton of seme of any sort. shodan-nidan-sandan are all just increasing levels of physical speed/technique based kendo. For sandan, the judges need to see that you aren't just wailing away, that you understand when you've created an opening and when you've been given one. If you create an opening through seme that's great. For yondan you have to keep the pressure on all the time and manage your opponent. You only need one or two points, but they have to be created through pressure not given. There's not much difference between nidan and sandan, but there's a big gap between sandan and yondan.

Of course YMMV depending on your local criterion, I can only speak from the Canadian perspective.

[JSchmidt]

"Of course YMMV depending on your local criterion, I can only speak from the Canadian perspective."

Well, according to the BKA website, the criterias are the same here...officially.
Having said that, there's nothing wrong with trying to learn the concept earlier than yondan. (Otherwise I'm trying it far too early :D) and if Neil's teacher is telling him to work on it, it's only fair that he asks about it!.

Jakob

[GMason]

I was told by a friend of mine, from the BKA Administration (Who shall remain nameless) That if I had taken my Sandan when I took my Nidan (I obviously couldn't but you know what I mean), I would have passed. So that is encouraging, that I'm on the right track at least

I'm not really talking about my grading. That is obviously one of my concerns. But I am just trying to improve my Kendo in General.

I've got practice tonight so I will make a concerted effort to at least try and exert pressure and create a good opportunity with the Shodan's and Nidan's in the club tonight.

I'll let you know if I have any success.

Cheers

[David J]

Originally posted by GMason
if I had taken my Sandan when I took my Nidan I would have passed

Just gotta make sure you dont get any worse in the next two years then :D

<rei>

Dave

[ben]

"Sonkyo, Pressure......Seme..... Men !!!!!!"

Yeah. Except it doesn't always happen in that order.
;)
b

[GMason]

David - You remember my Kendo from your trip to Bolton then, I've been getting worse since then. What do you Kiai again WOMEN........ ???? :D

Ben - My last shiai was exactly like that I'll have you know !!!!

only problem was I was on the RECIEVING END :D :D :D

[toreisu]

Originally posted by GMason


Sonkyo, Pressure......Seme..... Men !!!!!!

[/B]


I've been told it's more like - and let's see if I can express this properly...

PR...sonkyo...ES...seme...SU...men!...RE

I'm not sure, but I think what you're referring to as "pressure" is very like "zanshin." I think I saw a good thread or two on the topic of zanshin which might help you with your question as well.

[Nishi]

I have been told that, seme is not somthing that you do, its the effect or pressure you put on your opponent as a result of somthing you do(or dont do)...people with immovable minds and immovable spirits have tremendous pressence, i feel its becasue they have abandoned themselves, this type of immovable opponent can not be pressured easily. In fact, i have fenced a 7th dan early this year, and after sonkyo i gave a spirited kiai and performed a strong seme, my opponent didnt flinch, not even a blink, and it dawned on me, i had put pressure on my self.My opponents mind was immovable and he was ready, by not allowing me to seme(with effect) the pressure was on me, and my mind moved. When your mind wavers your kamae breaks down and openings appear, they say in kendo, the hands control the sword, the mind controls the hands, if you seme with either sword or body or mind, the end result is to create openings in the opponents kamae, for this you must move his mind, and for this (i believe) you must be immovable. But thats just my path ....i hope this helps.

[Charlie]

Hey, great discussion.

GMason, I'm in the same boat as you, having passed my nidan a few months ago. The pressure is such an invisible thing, and do you ever feel like you're controlling it? You're right it's hard to take your kendo to a whole new mental level when up until now it's been "hit faster, stronger, with more control; hit him/her before he/she hits me." I'm still growing my knowledge of seme myself. I bet there's lots and lots of analogies we can use to describe it, but to me it feels like a laser between my kensen and my opponent's tsuki, and when I try to focus my seme, I try to "point the laser." Does that make a little sense?

[GMason]

Hi Charlie,

Congrats on the Nidan.

I know what you mean about the Kensen, nice analogy I will try that. I also use a similar method when cutting a small men, I try to keep the Kensen down as long as possible going forward into the Nodo (again if that makes sense) beofre I cut.

I'm starting to have limited success, what I am also trying to do is make myself bigger instature as well. Obviously this is not a subsitute for a good seme, but I find it helps.

I've started looking through a lower Bar on the Men so my head is straighter, and I've pulled my back foot in a little so my back leg is straighter and not as bent. These are all adding to the taller straighter fencer that I am trying to become (these could also be attributed to flaws in my kendo).

[GMason]

Sorry,

Can anyone spot the deliberate mistake ???


I meant Higher bar on the men not Lower.

(I'm only doing this to get my post count up :D :D )

[Ares2907]

As for the 'not going back' thing, I see no problem with it as long as your mindset is a good one. More dangerous I think is standing 'too still', you may be trying to set up an oji waza or whatever, but the danger is that if you switch off mentally and your aite picks it up, you're as good as dead.
If you give ground, you should do it with an 'attacking' mind, so that even when you are stepping back, pressure remains on your opponent. Easier said than done :)

[Kendoboy]

I recently had my leaving keiko at my dojo, and I found that I did some of my best kendo ever in that spot between just getting really pumped up (not seeing my opponents as human; with personalities) and total exhaustion. In other words, when I forgot about myself, and the long line of opponents to follow, and footwork, etc and just let my mind go blank, and the kendo flow like a river towards the ocean, it was my best kendo ever. Still needs a lot of work, but it was my best ever.

Also, for seme, try starting by thinking "I'm going to hit men" then think how to make that MORE possible, either by suriage men, or kote men, or whatever. Then DO IT!!! you may not get it, but keep doing it. Your determination wil shine through, and that determination will make your kendo better (Take this with a grain of salt, as I'm not very experienced, I just find this helps me).

[GMason]

Ares2907,

I agree there is nothing wrong with going backwards, as long as you don't crumble. I think it was something Nishi said about having to step backwards and your Kamae falling apart. If you have a strong enough centre, this shouldn't happen. As I see it this is all part of the interplay of seme, and pressure.

Build pressure up, and then you step in. If he doesn't move step back gather yourself and try again. This time you could maybe make Seme ...Seme .....Men. It all depends and like I said I think this is maybe why pressure is so difficult to apply. As your opponant is trying to do the same.

There is all ways kiashi (SP??) seme, which is exactly what you mentioned stepping backwards with and attacking mind

Kendoboy,

The fencing till your knackered thing came up on another thread, yesterday "Stamina & Stuff". Talking about fencing till you want to throw up, which will make you real Kendo appear for exactly the reason you mentioned. You don't worry about what you ae doing, you are only niterested ni doing then next cut and getting through the fence.