In-house Grading Standards

[Navyguy]

Hello Everyone

I have done a few searches in the forum and have not found what I am exactly looking for.

Does anybody out there have any links or documents that have their in-house grading requirements? I am interested in trying to put something a little more formal together so people can independently gauge their progress during the year.

Thanks for your assistance.

[KingCanute]

check out the criteria on the british kendo website, it's what we follow.

[Navyguy]

Thank-you.
I will take a look.

[hayakawa]

Hey Navyguy,

The CKF has grading standards - I hear they're in a booklet that has to be requested. I've asked Morgan Sensei for them so I'll let you know when I've got them in hand.

Talk to you soon!

[nalogg]

Hello Everyone

I have done a few searches in the forum and have not found what I am exactly looking for.

Does anybody out there have any links or documents that have their in-house grading requirements? I am interested in trying to put something a little more formal together so people can independently gauge their progress during the year.

Thanks for your assistance.
that would be great seeing as any info i've gathered from my sensei is all really cloak and dagger...

[grasshopper_r2]

People are going to hate this post and I will gladly accept the hostile responses that I'm sure are to follow...however, Kendo is not that complicated. There are a few basics, some footwork, then you must learn strategy and timing. For those who wish to make Kendo their "Do", there is a ton of philosophy that you can decipher through and attempt to apply to life while you continue to develope skill. Simple..not easy..but simple.

Measuring a persons progress is a matter of opinion. I will agree that there is a "standard" for that opinion (ie. various requirements within the federations). However, it comes down to the opinion of the Sensei. Each persons progress is based on that persons abilities. For example: Billy may be naturally slow and uncoordinated, for him becoming fluid with his movements and delivering his strikes with accuracy and speed is a great accomplishment of skill and a testament to his training; then you have: Sally, naturally lean ,quick, coordinated, alert...these same techniques may came naturally so to challenge this student it takes a special program of challenges to measure the same amount of skill developement.
If you wish to use a set standard then the question you ask is simple...demonstrate certain techniques at a certain level..there are tons of kendo handbooks to follow for that information. However, measuring the development of the person, is another horse all-together.. that is best left to the pro's.
Now this raises the the next level of discussion (arguement), is it fair to hold everyone to the same standard? Or should we measure the development of the person. The federations have spoken by having a set standard through most of the grades, waiting to look deeper into the person later in life. I agree their need to be requirements or else the integrity of the art would be left in the hands of only a few honorable individuals which hold themselves to a high standard. Others would simply name and claim whatever rank the want(gee I've never seen that!). What do you all think??? I will be awaiting opinions of all the kendo-ka here in reguard to this post.

[JSchmidt]

Grades is for a certain standard, not X-amount of progress.
Everybody should be able to reach shodan, regardless of their physical prowess and 99% of those should be able to reach sandan.
Besides, if we started to give grades for progress, what about competitions?. How do we make up the categories in those?

Jakob

[Matlock]

Now this raises the the next level of discussion (arguement), is it fair to hold everyone to the same standard? Or should we measure the development of the person. The federations have spoken by having a set standard through most of the grades, waiting to look deeper into the person later in life. I agree their need to be requirements or else the integrity of the art would be left in the hands of only a few honorable individuals which hold themselves to a high standard. Others would simply name and claim whatever rank the want(gee I've never seen that!). What do you all think??? I will be awaiting opinions of all the kendo-ka here in reguard to this post.Well said, young Grasshoper. (Well not sure if you are young or not but it sounded really cool) However, I strongly believe that there are requirements for certain ranks that should not be lessened to compensate those unable to perform. Young Billy, in your example, may not get beyond a 2-dan or if lucky, 3-dan. While Sally may slowly climb up the ranks. I have seen many people who reach a block or barrier to their next promotion either because of physical reasons, or more likely, mental reasons. Some of my dojo members and I took the 3-dan exam here in Japan earlier this year. We ALL failed. The second time a few of us understood what was expected and realized that we lacked a certain mental aspect. For me, it was that I lacked the "attack" sense because I tended to fight a bit too defensively. Physically, I had not performed well in my "kikai utsu" which is finding the opportunities to strike. The second time around most of us, including myself passed. One poor guy still failed and has failed a total of 4 times. He is much like your Billy and to be honest, without a change in his style, I do not think that he will be able to pass.

I think that this shows a good example of what I think. If you see a 3-dan, you should be able to expect 3-dan level of performance. "Measuring the development of the person" seems to be for the dojo use and not for promotional exams. The best thing about kendo is when you go for a testing, it is very uncommon for me to know any of the judges. Therefore, is they see me for the first time and think that my level is 3-dan, then it must be. In the dojo promotions (like most karate schools) seem to think "well I have seen Billy perform better before so I am sure that he is just having a bad day", and pass him anyway. This may be ok until 1-kyu, but from shodan there needs to be established standards. Federtation promotions, if you are having a bad day, then just pack up and head home because you will not just slide by.

The next question is Which Federation controls the standards? I think in the US you can have the district Federation promote until 3-dan? Then it goes to the ALL US Kendo Federation. Is this correct? What about International federation standards? Does anyone know? I would be grateful to hear more on this. Needless to say, the standards of the different federations need to be the same.

Thanks for letting me state my opinion,

Cheers.

[Navyguy]

Interesting comments. I was thinking specifically about in-house gradings where you are not subjected so much to an undescribed standard by a federation board, but where you are developing and mentoring the new kendoka about many aspects of Kendo. Having something tangible that they can read gives them a goal to strive for. Of course a men strike is not always a men strike if you know what I mean.

To carry on with this however, should the in-house gradings have a different focus then the board gradings? Perhaps the 2nd to ??kyu should be focused on effort, tenacity and determination verses actual skill? Perhaps at the lower kyu level (especially kids) should be 70/30 effort/skill changing to 30/70 effort/skill for 1st kyu?

I have been evaluating people for years, mostly adults in professional occupations, and their skill is always evaluated but there is also factors of effort/ability that is taken into consideration.

[JSchmidt]

You are then still running into the problem of having a variable gap from nikyu to ikkyu.
Having grades awarded on individual progress would undermine the whole system, IMO.

Jakob

[Old Warrior]

How much does the ability to bout well fit into the mix? In other words, what if your form and footwork are not great, but you understand the concepts of distance and timing. And, when someone stands opposite you in a bout, you are able to perform beyond the quality of your pure technique. Furthermore, what if your ability to perform technically well is effected by limitations of your body (i.e. - damaged knees). Can someone who bouts well advance in rank, if their ability to perform technically well is lacking?

[Matlock]

How much does the ability to bout well fit into the mix? In other words, what if your form and footwork are not great, but you understand the concepts of distance and timing. And, when someone stands opposite you in a bout, you are able to perform beyond the quality of your pure technique. Furthermore, what if your ability to perform technically well is effected by limitations of your body (i.e. - damaged knees). Can someone who bouts well advance in rank, if their ability to perform technically well is lacking?Old Warrior, You brought up a great point. Form and footwork are essential for promotions. With the ki-ken-tai (the stomp, kiai and shinai strike coming at the same time) promotions would be very limited. However, the promotions are not limited to a showing of the basics. There is also the match portion of the promotion which will show the judges your ability and understanding of the concepts of distance and timing. I am sure that if you were borderline passing on the basics (even in the case of physical limitations) you could make up for it by performing much better in the match part. But you still need both parts to pass.

I know older teachers (70`s) who are limited because of different reasons. But each developed their own style where they were still able to perform basics and fought very well. A bout I remember very well was with a 7th dan I just met at the dojo in Japan who had lightning fast hands but his feet were slow but seemed perfect. When we sat down to take off the men, I was surprised to see a 79 year old man. He told me that he had been practicing at that dojo since he was 10. That is almost 70 years of kendo!!!! His footwork seemed to be playing in slow motion but his ki-ken-tai was spot on!

I have also heard of the a kendo player in Japan with only one arm. I have no idea of his rank but if he can still play kendo, then whatever our limitations may be, we should also be able to play and advance.

Good luck to you!

Cheers

[grasshopper_r2]

Along the same lies that Matlock was talking about, the first Gaijin to get shodan was Gordon Warner he made it to Hachidan and has a wooden leg! He finally had to give up Kendo now (Doctors Advise), due to a broken arm at 80-ish.

[Old Warrior]

Along the same lies that Matlock was talking about, the first Gaijin to get shodan was Gordon Warner he made it to Hachidan and has a wooden leg! He finally had to give up Kendo now (Doctors Advise), due to a broken arm at 80-ish.
My kendo journey has been an interesting one. With a damaged left knee (torn acl, mcl & miniscus) and an arthritic right one, learning itto kendo appeared to Sabumnin as something I wasn't likely to do well. So two months into the study he took away my 39 shinai and came back with a shoto and a 37 and said "You learn". He has devised a nito version for everything from kirakaeshi to suburi and accepts that seiza (as well as a number of other things) is impossible for me. My form is undoubtedly marginal, but I am The Fat Old White Haired Man From Hell when competing. So much so that I am on our Men's A Team with a collection of 3rd & 4th dans and I'm only ikkikyu. I would like to make shodan because then I can wear a blue uniform and retire my white one (with the blue stains I can't get out). Eventually, I'll get there if my braced limbs hold out.

[Navyguy]

I just wanted to add a little to this post. We have been talking about the level or standard of skill for somebody to achieve to be graded. I have recently found out that there have been people graded that have physical limitations like, missing both lower limbs and/or using a wheelchair. (different people)

So...if there were a specific physical standard that you must attain, how would these kendo people possibly achieve the standard?

When I read about stories of these exceptional people, I must think that there is some amount of determination and/or effort being evaluated during the grading process. If it was strictly based on physical ability, these people (in this example) would never get past ku kyu because they could not do fumikomi or any other footwork requirements. In Old Warrier’s case it is seiza.

So I guess there is a mix of both effort and skill. So what is the mix?