If u r a real chudan fan

[kensin]

If u r really a chudan fan, (u should not be though to confine urself with 1 stance, but concerning kyu kendokas who are better following chudan than deviating to jodan or gedan at their current stage for the sake of better chance of improvement), there is still a few things u can do to counterattack nito kenshi.

This discussion can go on for ever.

What I don't like is the attitide of sitting there saying, "Oh, here comes that Nitoka again, I am chudan, I am dead. "

No.

1. A few things to mind complementary to a few things a mentioned earlier, which I may humbly draw your kind attention upon, if u as a chudan kendoka have not seen such information earlier:

Nitokas (brief for nito-kendokas, mean no offense) usually will start in shiai by blocking or pushing your ken-sen out of the centre, with his shorter shnai in front.

Then, ur tsuki is no threat no more.

Then, after that, it is almost always followed by men with his longer shinai.

Usually it will not be kote, because from the distance he can push or block your ken-sen in chudan, he has already come too close for kote.

Concerning this strategy of such what do u do?

Notice that, ur problem come from the fact that u cannot keep ur ken-sen in center. And any horizontal movement which aimed to keep ken-sen center will be exploited by nitoka, because that intension, that movement grant him with chance to hit u men.

One of the ways to conter-attack this, is to lift up ur ken-sen either right before ur shinai get entangled with his shorter shinai (from tomaai) or lift up ur ken-sen exactly at(before) the moment he tries to make contact with your ken-sen.

Timing is the key, do not wait until he pushes ur ken-sen aside. Because the moment ur ken-sen out of centre is the moment u lose.

2. Because of fear, confusion, misunderstanding of the distance and timing of nitoka, many chudankas start to retrive as soon as they realize their kens-sen is in contact with rival's shorter shinai.

No.

That's the effect nitoka wan to create on u. When u do that, he already win. The moment u retrive will always be the moment he attack u men or kote with fumikomi. Depends on the speed of ur retriving. If u rtetrive fast, he usually give u kote with s samll fumikome. If u retrive slowly, then it 's a men.

Empirically speaking.

So u don't give that to him.

Remeber that, when his shorter shinai touches u or ur bogu, it never counts for any points.

So in case his shorter shinai try to push ur ken-sen aside, and u get stuck cannot use ur technique as usually, what u do?

I take fumikomi-ashi to knock myself on his shorter shinai or knock myself on him directly.

When u knock urself on his shorter shinai, it is already to close for him to hit u men. he will be the one retrive.

When u knock urself on him, he cannot do anything. wait ur chance for hiki.

So alwasy go forward against nito technique. Not backwards. Unless u do hiki.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I don't think anyone said "we give up". It's just your original post took on the tone of "if you do these X simple things, you'll beat a nito guy no problem".

It would be a lot easier to understand your posts if you used common english spellings rather than that single-letter phonetic crap.

[JHusch]

Here you go Neil, use this handy translator to decode his post :)

http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html

[misterkurukuru]

moocow can hit tsuki and hit over 5 times in a row with the daito! If you suck so much that you cant beat a nito player too freaking bad! I have the answer to everyone's problems, GET BETTER!!! after you have done kendo for over 15 years, you will have a chance against anyone...unless you really suck! People!! sack up and keep doing kendo, it will all come together when you are ready. like everything in life, there are no shortcuts.


AHHHHHHHHHH hahaha that web site is toooo freaking funny!!

oh and if you keep doing cheap ass stuff like bumping in to the person all the time, you are taking away the whole point of shobu and you will get called for a hansoku!

[kensin]

Mr. Neil Gendzwill,

Judging alone from ur previous critics on my simple counter-waza against nito, I have good enough reason to believe that u understand my post well.

Best regards,

Kensin



It would be a lot easier to understand your posts if you used common english spellings rather than that single-letter phonetic crap.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Here you go Neil, use this handy translator to decode his post :)
Thanks, I took the opposite tack and encoded my response so he can understand it:

I DONT THINK ANYONE SADE W3 GIEV UP!11! OMG LOL ITS JUST UR ORIGINAL POST 2K ON TEH 2NA OF IF U DO THES3 X SIMPLE THNGS U BAT A NI2 GUY NO PROBL3M

IT11!11!! OMG WTF WUD B A LOT AASEIR 2 UNDERSTAND UR POSTS IF U USED COMON 3NGLISH SPALNGS RATHER THAN TAHT SNGLA-LATER PHON3TIC CRAP
!!!1!1! WTF LOL

[kensin]

Sometimes when one tries to find a soltuion for a certain problem,

He can make his approach by asking himself 2 questions:

"Is this solution I have found optimal, i.e. better than all other solutions?" or "Is there anything better?"

The later question can be usually answered more easily than the earlier one. To show optimality, one has to compare his optimal solution to all other potential solutions. But to prove sub-optimality, one counter example is sufficient.

So very simply the 2 questions to ask are :"Is this the opitmal one?" and "Is there a better one?"

Unless one can prove the answer for the later question is "yes", I can always claim the answer to the first question is "yes."

This is equivalent to say, in our case particluarly, unless anyone including Gendzwill san, can show a counter example that there exist another waza is better than mine, mine waza is then indeed the very best.

Purely a logic problem, has nothing necessarily to do kendo.




I don't think anyone said "we give up". It's just your original post took on the tone of "if you do these X simple things, you'll beat a nito guy no problem".

It would be a lot easier to understand your posts if you used common english spellings rather than that single-letter phonetic crap.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Your logic is screwed up. Just because nobody here has proven something is better doesn't mean that your waza (or whatever else) is the best. It may be that it is the best among the very limited supply of people who post here. Or you may be misinterpreting a lack of responses as "can't prove it" when it really means "can't be bothered to explain it to you". Or it may simply be that some people can't or don't want to prove something physical in words. I know my sensei might have some difficulty in describing his waza in english on a computer, but I submit he'd have little difficulty in using it against you.

[Lucien]

THIS IS DA FUNEIST THREAD IVE R3AD IN A LONG TIEM!1111!1 WTF

[kensin]

Mr. Neil Gendzwill,

Are you a nito kendoka?


Your logic is screwed up. Just because nobody here has proven something is better doesn't mean that your waza (or whatever else) is the best. It may be that it is the best among the very limited supply of people who post here. Or you may be misinterpreting a lack of responses as "can't prove it" when it really means "can't be bothered to explain it to you". Or it may simply be that some people can't or don't want to prove something physical in words. I know my sensei might have some difficulty in describing his waza in english on a computer, but I submit he'd have little difficulty in using it against you.

[Paikea]

Mr. Neil Gendzwill,

Are you a nito kendoka?Thank you Kensin...I have been searching for the precise meaning of "judgement error" for some time now. I can hear Karou typing all the way from here.

Well done.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Nope. Chudan and a little jodan. I've had the experience of playing a pretty strong nito guy though - Matthew Raymond. I can't do much with him. He's not invincible by any stretch - my kendo just isn't strong enough to hang with those Canadian team guys. I've seen a few people beat Matthew. One fellow used chudan and just went straight up the middle with men. Another used kasumi and hit gyaku-doh. Both guys are current/former team members.

[JSchmidt]

What I don't like is the attitide of sitting there saying, "Oh, here comes that Nitoka again, I am chudan, I am dead. "
I don't believe anyone said that..the consesus was more that taking jodan as a reply to nito was a bad option.

Jakob

[hyuna]

I am not really clear on what this advice has to do with nito in particular.

If you are fighting against someone doing nito, if they take center with their shoto, and you waste time playing with it, they will just hit you. But it is the same with ai-chudan in a normal match. If someone takes center with their shinai and you push back or something without taking control of the center and their shinai, they will also just hit you.

It sounds like all you are saying is that whoever (a) controls center and (b) controls the opponent will win. This is nothing specific to nito and, I hope, nothing new to anyone who has been practicing kendo for any significant amount of time.

[kensin]

Dear Mr. Neil Gendzwill,

May I very kindly ask you (this is "you" is really for u, as I believe most English speaker pronounce "u" the same way as they would pronounce "you", unless u r Dutch, they pronounce "u" as "jü".) stop putting words into my month?

If u, sorry, you are an English speaker, you know what I am saying is that: "Please do not misinterprete me purposely any more."

Or maybe my words give misleading effect because I wanted to save my typing time by typing "you" to "u" or typing "are" to "r"? In that sense, I am the one should apologize.

But anyway, return to my point. The thing really puzzels me is that, why there is always people making critics but there is not many making suggestions?

My interest is really, purely, theoratical.

The whole point of my argument is not "If MY waza is optimal?"

But rather it is "how to PROVE 'if my waza is optimal.'" or more precisely "if certain(including mine) waza is optimal".

How do one make prove then? By offering an counter-example.

This logic is not really mine, if u, oopus, sorry, you, happen to know a bit maths or logic (if you don't, that's not your fault and not my concern), this way of reasoning has been adopted since ancient Greek time until now modern day when people do theoratical and applied scientific research.

If this logic is indeed screwed up, I am sorry to think that I am not too confident the one to be blamed would be me. Because I am not the one who invented it.



Your logic is screwed up. Just because nobody here has proven something is better doesn't mean that your waza (or whatever else) is the best. It may be that it is the best among the very limited supply of people who post here. Or you may be misinterpreting a lack of responses as "can't prove it" when it really means "can't be bothered to explain it to you". Or it may simply be that some people can't or don't want to prove something physical in words. I know my sensei might have some difficulty in describing his waza in english on a computer, but I submit he'd have little difficulty in using it against you.

[nalogg]

Nope. Chudan and a little jodan. I've had the experience of playing a pretty strong nito guy though - Matthew Raymond. I can't do much with him. He's not invincible by any stretch - my kendo just isn't strong enough to hang with those Canadian team guys. I've seen a few people beat Matthew. One fellow used chudan and just went straight up the middle with men. Another used kasumi and hit gyaku-doh. Both guys are current/former team members.
Mr raymond came to my dojo last week and everybody was in awe watching him and kamata sensei spar.

He was doing some big damage at first but then kamata sensei seemed to adapt, and then it became this struggle of one guy changing something, the other adapting and trying something new... it was interesting to watch

I have to admit i was rooting for kamata sensei just because nito seems a little cheap to me... cool, but cheap, that and it's so far out of my grasp right now it hurts my brain to think about it.

BAH what do i know?

[kensin]

Jschmidt san,

Would not hestitate to tell u that it used to my old attitude years ago which is to be critised, I presume.

When when I said "hate this attitude..."I should have been more precise in saying "hate this attitude of my own...".

Sorry for the confusion.

But on the other hand, I do know people bothered by Nito as much as I was.


I don't believe anyone said that..the consesus was more that taking jodan as a reply to nito was a bad option.

Jakob

[nalogg]

But anyway, return to my point. The thing really puzzels me is that, why there is always people making critics but there is not many making suggestions?
Probably because of fear of all the negative criticism they'll get.... or maybe that somebody will "put words into their month"

:D

[kensin]

Dear Mr. Neil Gendzwill,


There is no doubt that your (this "your" is for you (and this "you" is also for u) ) sensei will beat me, perhaps with whatever waza. Because it does not take me much difficulty to come to the conclusion that I am nowhere matches up to sensei, at least not today or tomorrow.



Perhaps you can also very easily beat me with whatever waza.



But does victory of one person(in this sense, sensei) against another person (in this case, very humbly, me) implies the winning person's waza is better than the losing person's "waza"?



From pure a logic point of view, I would argue no.



Not really, perhaps ur, sorry, your sensei's waza is really better (I would rather believe), but unfortunately, it is not proven in this way, still if one want to prove something logically.



A better, I mean logically convincing, way to make you prove that my waza is crap is to have soemone with identical kendo experience or simply strength to use his waza against me in shiai. And if I lose with my waza asymptomatically, then perhaps you can say empirically my waza is inferior.



An equivalent way to prove I am wrong is to, if indeed as you posted, to be lucky enough to have a person generous enough who is willing to "bother to” prove it to me using a counter-waza against the waza I proposed against a kenshi with Equal strength and talents. Then asymptotically, you can perhaps prove I am wrong.

P.S. The only reason I used the word "me"and "I" in my post, is indeed for, notational convenience.

Enterchanging these two terms to "him" and "A person" will not violate the structure of reasoning and lose generality.



Your logic is screwed up. Just because nobody here has proven something is better doesn't mean that your waza (or whatever else) is the best. It may be that it is the best among the very limited supply of people who post here. Or you may be misinterpreting a lack of responses as "can't prove it" when it really means "can't be bothered to explain it to you". Or it may simply be that some people can't or don't want to prove something physical in words. I know my sensei might have some difficulty in describing his waza in english on a computer, but I submit he'd have little difficulty in using it against you.

[kensin]

Gendzwill san,

If you would still be so generously and kindly "bother to" (as you posted) read my "crap"( aslo as you so kindly and generously spend time to "bother to" posted. ), then here is one more humble piece for you before I go home,

Another reason I raised the point of proving "my" waza's optimality is really, to stimulate (so for this word if it bring about any insult) you (yes, you Mr. Gendzwill) to offer some better suggestions to counter-attack nito directly after mine.

For me that's what all matters to get into a forum, right?

Maybe my logic is indeed screwed up, as nobody says western science is founded on the right corner stone, which happens to be the main reasoning tool I was using tonight. But I have good reason enough to think that the purpose of anyone including me to get into a forum is to discuss something and learn something, instead of luanching some personal attack.

However, It truns out to my disappointment that, you were not so knid and generous as usual to "bother to" suggest something.

Which is OK.



Your logic is screwed up. Just because nobody here has proven something is better doesn't mean that your waza (or whatever else) is the best. It may be that it is the best among the very limited supply of people who post here. Or you may be misinterpreting a lack of responses as "can't prove it" when it really means "can't be bothered to explain it to you". Or it may simply be that some people can't or don't want to prove something physical in words. I know my sensei might (kensin says: for sure sensei beats kensin, no doubt) have some difficulty in describing his waza in english on a computer, but I submit he'd have little difficulty in using it against you.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I don't think I ever said that I've proved your waza is crap. I only said that you haven't proved it's the best. As you said, to prove it, you have to compare against every possible counter-example. That means two things - one is that you have an adequate way to compare them (as you yourself stated) and the other is that you compare every waza. You haven't done either, so declaring your waza is best by default just because not everybody is rushing in to help you is specious logic.

The other problem is that a particular waza isn't necessarily the answer. I've given you two examples from real life that worked - straight men, and gyaku-doh from kasumi. In one case, you've got the most elementary waza there is, and the other is an unusual one from an unusual kamae. Yet, both worked against the same guy. Funny, eh? Now if I told you that the guy who got the men is taller than the nito guy, and the guy who got the doh is shorter, maybe things get a little clearer.

It's not that I don't have an issue with discussing various waza, because they can help. For example, having kasumi in your bag of tricks for people who take jodan and nito is not a bad thing. But I think what you were looking for is for someone to examine your list of ideas and say "ah! I now have the solution for nito opponents". I happened to disagree and call you on it.

PS going through the posts, I never called your waza crap. I called your AOL style spelling crap - so please follow your own advice and read carefully.

[kensin]

Dear Mr. Misterkurukuru,

On one hand you are right, one has to get better.

But on the other hand, I guess it's always more easy to say "you have to get better" than "how to get better"? Not just for you, but also for majority of people. So don't take it personally, unless you wish so yourself which I cannot help no more.

Another thing I guess is that, people probably miss my point by thinking "kensin has posted these waza", "kensin used these waza", so kensin thinks "his waza is an optimal waza".

No.

That's not what Kensin meant. Kensin never thinks in this way. Making an correction now to avoid later confusion and apology for any confusion so far, if you did not purposely misunderstood me.

The only thing I have to apologize is, tonight is, I spent too much time talking about my suggestion, my waza, my experience wiht nito, so that it makes my post like a personal survey.

But My interest is merely in waza, and in waza only.

I shoudl probably have substituted "I", "me", "my" with "A kenshi", "him" and "his". And I will try to do so from now on to avoid confusion.

So let's talk about waza instead of talking about you and me. It will save us both sometime. Efficiency, I guess that's what kendo about.

P.S. Now Particlurly to your reply, Mr. Misterkurukuru, the things I suggested are really for kyus that are not as good as you are and cannot improve to a level as high as you are in short time but nevertheless still want to do something concise and technically simply against nitokas.

So my post serves rather as could be reference and a seminal info for further discussion rather than authority opinion.


moocow can hit tsuki and hit over 5 times in a row with the daito! If you suck so much that you cant beat a nito player too freaking bad! I have the answer to everyone's problems, GET BETTER!!! after you have done kendo for over 15 years, you will have a chance against anyone...unless you really suck! People!! sack up and keep doing kendo, it will all come together when you are ready. like everything in life, there are no shortcuts.


AHHHHHHHHHH hahaha that web site is toooo freaking funny!!

oh and if you keep doing cheap ass stuff like bumping in to the person all the time, you are taking away the whole point of shobu and you will get called for a hansoku!

[JSchmidt]

Jschmidt san,

Would not hestitate to tell u that it used to my old attitude years ago which is to be critised, I presume.

When when I said "hate this attitude..."I should have been more precise in saying "hate this attitude of my own...".

Sorry for the confusion.

But on the other hand, I do know people bothered by Nito as much as I was.
I have absolutly no idea what you are trying to say

Jakob

[don quixote]

While I've never met anybody using nito in shiai or keiko, and thus cannot speak from experience, I think there will be slightly different difficulties in keeping the centre against opponents using nito compared to chudan.
When using two swords you will so to speak have two different tools, one for controlling the opponents shinai and taking/keeping the centre, and one for striking. With one sword only, you use the one shinai for both purposes.
This will make some kind of difference, don't you think?
Of course the basic ideas, theories or concepts such as keeping the centre, always being on the offensive etc will apply equally whatever kamae, waza etc your opponent uses, but the practical application of these ideas or principles will perhaps be a little different.

[kensin]

Aha,

Finally at Amsterdam time 23:47, Gendzwill san starts talking bit about waza, at least from my limited capacity of understanding, and does not spend all his precious lines criticizing kensin.

Isn' that a good news?

So though still remaning rather vague, kensin see hope to learn something from Gendzwill san, something relevant to waza and not only relevant to kensin as a person. (by the way, if later happens to to be your interest you are welcome to send your critcs to my email box, crtics are always welcome as far as they have sound reasoning and stand frimly on factual grounds)

And I promise everyone that, simply verbally critise kensin will not likely to improve one's kendo. Unless one put his crtics into action in dojo.

U, sorry, you know what I like most about what you said tonight?

"....But I think what you were looking for is for someone to examine your list of ideas and say "ah! I now have the solution for nito opponents". I happened to disagree and call you on it...."

Because by copy-paste your lines and change a few words I can roughly express my intension though not completely.

My inension is

what I actually was looking for is for someone to examine my list of ideas and say "ah! I know a better solution than kensin's, I gonna post it!".

Tried many times, but still no such response.

But you are right to disagree (as it is always for you westerners to say) with me, if I could have thought in the way as u, sorry, you presumed. I would have no problem to disagree with something like that.

I presume most of the people would agree, there is no such way that is the universally best way. It is only sensible to state, given certain assumption and conditions, this method is optimal.

The fun is not in possessing a way as such, but rather in searching for it, at least for me. In math, people sometimes call such searching "proof", occupational habit, cannot help it, meant for no confusion.


I don't think I ever said that I've proved your waza is crap. I only said that you haven't proved it's the best. As you said, to prove it, you have to compare against every possible counter-example. That means two things - one is that you have an adequate way to compare them (as you yourself stated) and the other is that you compare every waza. You haven't done either, so declaring your waza is best by default just because not everybody is rushing in to help you is specious logic.

The other problem is that a particular waza isn't necessarily the answer. I've given you two examples from real life that worked - straight men, and gyaku-doh from kasumi. In one case, you've got the most elementary waza there is, and the other is an unusual one from an unusual kamae. Yet, both worked against the same guy. Funny, eh? Now if I told you that the guy who got the men is taller than the nito guy, and the guy who got the doh is shorter, maybe things get a little clearer.

It's not that I don't have an issue with discussing various waza, because they can help. For example, having kasumi in your bag of tricks for people who take jodan and nito is not a bad thing. But I think what you were looking for is for someone to examine your list of ideas and say "ah! I now have the solution for nito opponents". I happened to disagree and call you on it.

PS going through the posts, I never called your waza crap. I called your AOL style spelling crap - so please follow your own advice and read carefully.

[kensin]

JHUsch sun,

Thank you for offering way for others to read my poorly constructed pieces.

What Gendzwill san meant is that probably I use "u" instead of "you", I use "r" instead of "are".


merely a habbit to save typing, apology for any potential inconvenience cuased.



Here you go Neil, use this handy translator to decode his post :)

http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html

[chaichaikun15]

if this is to help kyu people going against nito... they're probably not gonna get it anyways.

kurukuru is right... all you can do is get experience. watch how he plays and see whats open.

if youre a nito guy... you shouldnt be doing nito on a kyu kid anyways. i havent seen a nito in kyu (cuz i think its just not aloud, like tsuki) and even if they DID do it... they would most likely not be strong enough to swing the daito fast anyways.

so everyone... just practice... forget all that mumble jumble crap

[kensin]

Hi, have to leave, but have to say something.

Your last sentence is the best post so far tonight.

You sounds like a conlfict resolutor, a mediator.

I really hope your president would be as mature as you are.






so everyone... just practice... forget all that mumble jumble crap

[Hyaku]

If u r really a chudan fan, (u should not be though to confine urself with 1 stance, but concerning kyu kendokas who are better following chudan than deviating to jodan or gedan at their current stage for the sake of better chance of improvement), there is still a few things u can do to counterattack nito kenshi.

This discussion can go on for ever.

I am glad its just a discussion. I hate to say it but most foreign Kendoka still can't even do chudan let alone play about with two shinai. I know its not a nice thing to say but its a fact when I see a Japanese junior high schooler run rings around the a whole dojo in kachi nuki its quite obvious. People really are running before they can walk.

What happened to the honest practice of meeting someone in the same stance and test ones skills? That's what Kendo is about. Good honest practice on an equal footing. To me messing around is wasted energy when one could perhaps fit in an extra kakari geiko. That would perhaps shorten the double standard.

[hamish]

Aha,
what I actually was looking for is for someone to examine my list of ideas and say "ah! I know a better solution than kensin's, I gonna post it!".
Tried many times, but still no such response.
Anyone who's actually got an answer knows its not the waza, its the person using it, and there are as many men waza as there are people in any given dojo. With so many variables, you'd spend half your life trying to explain it, and only those who already understand will get it.

Maybe its just me, but I usually stop reading after the first paragraph of AOL grammar (nice translator, by the way), as if you can't be bothered writing correctly, why should I bother reading it, let alone answering it?

Especially when the answer is 'Work it out in the dojo'

[Jarlaxle]

Hey, go easy on him.This thing is just his little theory.And you kensin san..
You can better come back and explain your waza after you beat a couple of nitoka with it.And please dont blame Neil..being 5 dan , palying with squad members and nitos and years of experience , he is not talking empty.
Some respect...

[drizzt]

hey hate to hijack thread but your not a big fan of dark elves huh?? heheheheheh

[kensin]

...

1.With so many variables,

2. you'd spend half your life trying to explain it ...

Statement 1 is absolutely correct

Statement 2 is false


Just one counter example is sufficient to prove my proposition is wrong. Logically speaking.

[kensin]

... Maybe its just me,
1. but I usually stop reading after the first paragraph of AOL grammar (nice translator, by the way),

2. as if you can't be bothered writing correctly, why should I bother reading it, let alone answering it? ...
Aha, Hamish san,

I am sorry to think that I see some inconsistency here with words and action.

No worry, I see a lot of that with a lot of people everyday. They just don't do what they say they are going to do.

1. U "usually stop reading", yet at least this time you, sorry, u continue.

2. "why should I bother reading it, let alone answering it?"

Ja, why you, sorry u still bother reading it this time, and why you, pardon u still answer it this time?

Really no clue. Perhaps u urself better knows the answer for this inconsistency.

In psychology, sometimes we call it irrational human behavior. No I see it does not only apply to human on the street, but perhaps also applies to (some)kenshi at least.

[kensin]

If you would kindly allow me, Hamish san. I spend a few minutes for a spelling check on your post, here is some outcome which I puzzels me deeply as it seems to me that it would not be written by someone states "... as if you can't be bothered writing correctly, why should I bother reading it, let alone answering it? ..."

1. Puzzle A.

Hamish san wrote:... its the person using it ...

I guess Hamish probably mean: "it's or it is the person using it".

2. Puzzel B.

Hamish san wrote, in his second paragraph: ... Maybe its just me ...

I guess Hamish probably mean: "Maybe it's just me" or "Maybe it is just me"

3. Puzzel C.

Hasmish san wrote, ... you'd spend half your life trying to explain it...

Most of the students take English lanuage examination would rather write,

... you'd spend half of your life trying to explain it...

4. The biggest puzzel, here it comes

After writing these few English lines, Hamish san continue and ask,

"... as if you can't be bothered writing correctly, why should I bother reading it, let alone answering it? "

Or maybe this is a question Hamish san asked himself? Very deep, very Philosophical. Kensin would not be able answer it.



Anyone who's actually got an answer knows its not the waza, its the person using it, and there are as many men waza as there are people in any given dojo. With so many variables, you'd spend half your life trying to explain it, and only those who already understand will get it.

Maybe its just me, but I usually stop reading after the first paragraph of AOL grammar (nice translator, by the way), as if you can't be bothered writing correctly, why should I bother reading it, let alone answering it?

Especially when the answer is 'Work it out in the dojo'

[Niels]

This is getting ridiculous, now youre just baiting for flame
First you bring up (George W) Bush completly unprovoked
(which thankfully got ignored), and spell checking Hamish' post and being RATHER insulting about it too.

Also claiming your waza is better then anyone else's and is the be and all and end all sounds like a pretty ludicrous asumption to me.

What's your age again ?

--Niels

[kensin]

No, Mr. Jarlexle, definitely, 5m dan Neil sun is not talking empty.

Kensin always have respect, and equal respect for other kendokas, no matter which dan rank they possess, as far as what they are talking about is still in domain of kendo, instead of launching some verbal attack which has no much to do with kendo itself.

In kendo, an action is always followed by another action. In real life, a verbal attack will always followed by a counter attack.

Keep calmly and steady in chudan without being removed is also a reaction. Kenshin is not yet too good at it. Kensin's sensei told kensin that he practiced that for 30 more years. Kensin has yet to pratice that to be steady in chudan. But as far as Kensin is not yet that good, kensin won't pretend.

By the way, kensin never pay more respect to kenshi with higher dan ranks, and not less either. Never, particularly after he observesd in his childhood that a 3rd dan kenshi put out the 6 dans and 5 dans without too much trouble.

So dan rank alone will not derive respect, at least not Kensin's respect. It says nothing to Kensin.

It says something to other kendokas sometimes, I know.







Hey, go easy on him.This thing is just his little theory.And you kensin san..
You can better come back and explain your waza after you beat a couple of nitoka with it.And please dont blame Neil..being 5 dan , palying with squad members and nitos and years of experience , he is not talking empty.
Some respect...

[JSchmidt]

I've seen this type before. Kensin is not really interested in discussing kendo, only in arguing about how to argue and what 'is' is.
A different kind of troll, but a troll nonetheless.

Jakob

[kensin]

Niels san,

Insult is but what one perceives.

If one happens to find that his own inconsistency between his own words and his own action is insulting.

So be it.

I am merely the one pointing it out.

Normally I would not blame the mirror for showing me an ugly reflection of myself if the mirror reflects what he precisely put up on my own face.

If the mirrow happens not to be flat, I laugh, instead of feeling being insulted.

All the reference I ever used is originally posted by Hamish san, without distortion.

A single action attacks the whole universe. Insult itself attracks insult.

It is all what one perceives.

For me, they are just words, and only plain words.

If you can understand.


This is getting ridiculous, now youre just baiting for flame
First you bring up (George W) Bush completly unprovoked
(which thankfully got ignored), and spell checking Hamish' post and being RATHER insulting about it too.

Also claiming your waza is better then anyone else's and is the be and all and end all sounds like a pretty ludicrous asumption to me.

What's your age again ?

--Niels

[kensin]

Kensin is interested in discussing kendo.

But where it starts where it ends, as always, it is a zero-sum game, like kendo.

Kensin is the one starts the discussion and so perhaps he should be the one to end it.

But as Kensin correctly recall, he is the one starts discussing waza against waza. So he would rather end his discussion by discussing waza.

And if there would be a person to terminate the "nonesense" which has nothing to do with kendo, kensin guess he would rahter leave this opportunity to the one who started it.




I've seen this type before. Kensin is not really interested in discussing kendo, only in arguing about how to argue and what 'is' is.
A different kind of troll, but a troll nonetheless.

Jakob

[Niels]

Wow, you talk alot without actually saying something you should be in po-lee-ticks.
And no i don't understand.

Now i'll just leave it at that since i do not actually feel like i am contributing to the thread or contributing to anything really.I'll just sit back and watch this thing blow over.

--Niels

[Jarlaxle]

Got me wrong about respect and grade but its okay , I know how this will end.Kensin just wants this replay ;

"-Wow!! you have discovered a great waza which will bring victory to all chudan players.Nito is dead."

Forget the rest......

jking....You are a funny guy.I like to meet you in Nakakura Cup if you are coming.So we can try out your waza :wink:

[kensin]

Oh, sorry, one correction on kensin's way of expression.

When kensin says "kendo is a zero-sum game", he does not mean a game in common sense.

Rather, in Decision-Science, a game is defined as: a series of continuous or discrete strategic interaction between different interest groups who maximizes own payoffs.

And Game Theory is a very well defined and very elegant branch of modern mathematics for economic, legal and other social behavior analysis.

Kensin apologizes for any confusion or potential insult may caused for calling kendo a game.

Because for kensin, kendo is not a game in common sense, either, at least.

When kensin say game, usually, he means something serious. Becuase that's his daily wroking tool for his analysis.






Kensin is interested in discussing kendo.

But where it starts where it ends, as always, it is a zero-sum game, like kendo.

Kensin is the one starts the discussion and so perhaps he should be the one to end it.

But as Kensin correctly recall, he is the one starts discussing waza against waza. So he would rather end his discussion by discussing waza.

And if there would be a person to terminate the "nonesense" which has nothing to do with kendo, kensin guess he would rahter leave this opportunity to the one who started it.

[nalogg]

oh my god, this is the worst thread since the "why do people hate americans" thread

It hurts my eyes!

[JHusch]

oh my god, this is the worst thread since the "why do people hate americans" thread

It hurts my eyes!
I agree with the Ninja on this one ;)

[Cypher]

The only thing that confuses me is the constant 3rd person reference...:ermm:

[kensin]

百武先生,

Indeed. Honoured to have you joining in the debate I am being entriguring, as perhaps I should not have continued for so long.

Three things I would like to say, very humbly, are that,

1. In Europe at least, I have witnessed quite some nito-kenshi well and regular trained from Japan practicing Nito. What I don't like is their unfair advantage in shiai.

2. When I say "discussion" at my very 1st post. I merely mean discussion can take forever on waza. No other than that.

What I do not enjoy myself is, really, to listen to people talking about things other than waza in a waza forum.

If one honestly believes that discussing wazas do not help with one's understanding on waza, and adds no value added to one's dojo practice, he would at the 1st place avoid stepping into a waza forum, with a honest attitude.

I don't know, I only have maximum 6 hours of traning time per week for kendo as long as I am still in Europe. Have to find other ways to learn better when stay out of the dojo. And waza forum is perhaps one.

3. Is your "do not run before you can walk" piece targetting at me?
In yes, indeed, I accept with much gratitude.
In no, I would take it as if it targeted to me as well.

Sincerely,

修悟



I am glad its just a discussion. I hate to say it but most foreign Kendoka still can't even do chudan let alone play about with two shinai. I know its not a nice thing to say but its a fact when I see a Japanese junior high schooler run rings around the a whole dojo in kachi nuki its quite obvious. People really are running before they can walk.

What happened to the honest practice of meeting someone in the same stance and test ones skills? That's what Kendo is about. Good honest practice on an equal footing. To me messing around is wasted energy when one could perhaps fit in an extra kakari geiko. That would perhaps shorten the double standard.

[hyuna]

An equivalent way to prove I am wrong is to, if indeed as you posted, to be lucky enough to have a person generous enough who is willing to "bother to” prove it to me using a counter-waza against the waza I proposed against a kenshi with Equal strength and talents.
This speaks rather directly to the problem we are having in communicating on this topic.

I think that, fundamentally, kendo is not about waza. So it is not a reasonable thing to say that such-and-such waza is "optimal" or not. It might be within some particular circumstance, but that fact is really of no great consequence. This is visible in many aspects of practice.

Rather, I thnk that, fundamentally, kendo is about the interaction between kenshi. That is why Gendzwill sensei keeps coming back to different waza for different people, and why misterkurukuru talks about just getting better. That is what one has to do.

Techniques may be a physical expression of the interaction between kenshi but it is only as correct to say that kendo is the sum of those techniques as it is correct to say something like "the fundamental reason 2+2=4 is because if you have 2 apples and get 2 more apples, you will have 4 apples." Two pair of apples might be an expression of the concept "4" but is it the same as the concept "4"? You mentioned using game theory regularly, so I gather you might be a mathematician, so I hope that example makes sense to you. Although I am prepared to do so, I do not really think that this is the place to get involved in a discussion of the philosophy of math or philosophy of language, so if that example does not resonate with you, I can perhaps try to find another, so let us not waste too much time on that example. The point is that there are certain situational contexts where someone might take the statement as meaningful, but as a whole, it is rather naive. So a theoretical interest in if such-and-such waza is "optimal" in kendo is a very peculiar thing. It is very different from the practical question of asking how I counter a waza, or talking about how you, as an individual, counters a waza. In the latter context, we are again talking about how one specific person relates to other people and we have returned to the context of the interaction of kenshi. But, talking about any arbitrary individual in an idealized match is not really talking about kendo anymore, in my opinion.

[kensin]

"....talking about an arbitrary individual is not really talking about kendo any more..."

I will remember that.

[Hai_hai]

Argh matey. Western fencing is sometimes described as physical chess. A game played out mentally and then implemented physically. Kendo is more like the monster truck racing. The best man wins.

[Will]

I spent the last 30 minutes to figure out what the hell was going on here. All I know is that's it's ironic that kensin was attacking Hamish's grammar...

But I think I figured out a way to talk to him...
If you would so kindly and humbly please, desist with the monumental superfluous language, it, logically speaking, does not create the atmosphere that you are of an intellectual capacity greater than the greatest minds in the existance to this day. But rather, the contradictory argument is that it makes you appear as though you're cognition is less than a stalagmite and you cause a moment of delirium and confusion onto those who read it so humbly. Again, I ask you to desist with your logically speaking statements and discontinue attacking poster's grammar syntax for because u, sorry, you are not making a complete argument or any sense when you do. I request onto u, sorry, you that you get a grammar and or, perhaps a special spell check program, or it might be called, executible file in the hopes that it will make your thesis more concise and understanable to all.

Please do not put u, sorry, your language into your mouth when you respond to my post.

Much appreciated to the extremist extent

[kensin]

Kendo has always been kendo in Japan. Ken-do is old.

When kendo was first introduced to the world, it was actually called japanese fencing by many.

The name "Kendo" which is widely used now in the Western world, if I still recall correctly, was only graduately perceived in last few decades.

Maybe you know already, I wouldn't wonder.

Have actually seen people combating kendo with western fencing several years ago in Porland. Fun.


Argh matey. Western fencing is sometimes described as physical chess. A game played out mentally and then implemented physically. Kendo is more like the monster truck racing. The best man wins.

[Neil Gendzwill]

[snip something funny][Snip incomprehensible reply]
Drugs are legal where you are Kensin, aren't they? That would explain a lot...

[nalogg]

If you would so kindly and humbly please, desist with the monumental superfluous language...
The smartest answer is often the simplest...
the same goes for language.

[kensin]

Let me, if everyone would also agree, with pleasure conclude at least my part of the conversation on this thread of waza forum which I have started.

Finally, I see someone is, at least trying to, use my debate skill to argue with me. Namely, attacking me with my own speech or style/way of speech during debate.

Very well, Will sun. You are a quick learner. Or maybe you know all these already. It is a subtle debate trick used extensively and effectively.

Kensin is excited. No rather, more precisely, he is pleased because, he sees others using his favorite technique to fall back on himself. Nothing pleases an old fashioned acdemic more than that.

As I started by proposing discussing waza but in turn followed by critics on things other than waza, I don't know how well I should wish those, who are interested in having these discussions. But as you have seen and I was already confident about before I start repsonding: we had a lot of fun.

And I think I learned something indeed on kendo from at least two discussants. So after all, besides the fun, all my words spent at a cost of which making "me appear as though my cognition is less than a stalagmite" (maybe it indeed is, but it won't bother me or be taken as possible insult) has induced some helpful advice.

Would never knwo what others join in a forum for, wouldn't wonder either.

If you will be so kind to forgive me, I am going to dojo now. With a calm and blessful feeling on my way there (as I usually try to) that I had fun and more importantly perhaps, had some helpful advice on kendo from two discussants (rather than just sharpening my debate skill in English) from this forum.


I spent the last 30 minutes to figure out what the hell was going on here. All I know is that's it's ironic that kensin was attacking Hamish's grammar...

But I think I figured out a way to talk to him...
If you would so kindly and humbly please, desist with the monumental superfluous language, it, logically speaking, does not create the atmosphere that you are of an intellectual capacity greater than the greatest minds in the existance to this day. But rather, the contradictory argument is that it makes you appear as though you're cognition is less than a stalagmite and you cause a moment of delirium and confusion onto those who read it so humbly. Again, I ask you to desist with your logically speaking statements and discontinue attacking poster's grammar syntax for because u, sorry, you are not making a complete argument or any sense when you do. I request onto u, sorry, you that you get a grammar and or, perhaps a special spell check program, or it might be called, executible file in the hopes that it will make your thesis more concise and understanable to all.

Please do not put u, sorry, your language into your mouth when you respond to my post.

Much appreciated to the extremist extent

[Munnin]

Argh matey. Western fencing is sometimes described as physical chess. A game played out mentally and then implemented physically. Kendo is more like the monster truck racing. The best man wins.
I have found that people who compare their sport to chess typically don't play much chess. :)

[Will]

kensin does not appear to understand my previous statements so will will clarify them for him who has the mental capacity less than that of a sombraro.

stop with the writing the way that u, sorry, you are currently writing in that way of writing which causes many to be aggrevated to a higher level for the writing of the way that you write causes others to have aggrevation.

Will is using this form of speech to show the flaws in the way you are posting on this forum and how it is to of no help to those who are reading it that u, sorry, you do not make a clarified post.

desist immediately with posts of this nature and for the style of speech in which that u write in for they are unproductive to this forum.

Kensin san in the post that preceded my own by several other posts say that we are arguing and that the method of speech he is using is a good way to clarify his arguments and to use as debating skills but he forgets that he began with this type of typing in which actually caused the aforemention befuddlement of this whole thread in its entirity.

the method in the way that you are typing on the forum has caused due many aggrevations to all who read it because it is not CONCISE at all and inhibits one's debating abilities for one's abilities prevent the clarified of argument hence underminding the argument for which one has tried to argue.

Will refers you to naglogg's post on how the simplist answer is not only the intellectually valid but on the same level, the easiest to understand.

Kensin desist with u, sorry, your unreadible script for its begetting the problems on this thread because those who are on it do not use this kind of language in any day speak.

AFter I referred to kensin san's profile about who he is, it is clear that having mathematics of the highest degree as one of your interests proves to me and to any one who has more common and social sense than kensin that u, sorry, you do not have the natural social skills that come with contact with other humans so do not realize that no one uses this manner of type on any level of communication other than those who try to confuse others who read the confusing manuscript of that of arrogant intellectuals or petty one's replicating the arrogant intellectual's experience.

Will is not supporting the way that you are typing but is mocking u, sorry, you in every way if you do not realize it. If you did not understand the previous statement that had occured before this sentence, then the work i was trying to accomplish has in fact been accomplished.

[kendokamax]

kendokamax thinks you are a bunch of geeks

kendo ha kokoro de arimasu yo!!!!!!!!

[Fonsz]

Hello everyone,
Soft drugs are legal in Holland. It's the main attraction for tourists all over the world. It would not imply that we are all on drugs. When I follow this thread I completely forgot what it was about in the first place. I think that because of the subtle and intricate use of English by native speakers and the rudimentary use by us non native speakers there can be miscommunication. Me thinks that this is the case. Live and let live. If some people like to theorize about what kind of waza works against ............... (fill in what you like), then let them be. It is still the person or persons in question who will have make do with what they can. It is not the waza, it is the person or rather his Ki that is succesfull. What works for one person doesn't work for another. Thank God otherwise we would be all doing the same thing. I think it's better to close this thread specially because I saw that Kensin has posted another one. Maybe we can discus our experiences there with a clean slate. Because after all for me, and I can safely assume also for the rest of you, we are discussing something that is very precious. We spend a lot of free time, money and effort on the road which we call Kendo. We all travel on our own speed and means but we are all traveling in the same direction. I also hope that the members of this forum will one day come to Holland and see for themselves that it's not so bad. Or that we can meet in your country and cross our shinai, and learn from each other.
Kindest regards,
Alphons

[Neil Gendzwill]

It would not imply that we are all on drugs.
It's a joke, son. I say, I keep pitchin' 'em, you keep missin' 'em.

[JHusch]

It's a joke, son. I say, I keep pitchin' 'em, you keep missin' 'em.
Jokes.....I get Jokes.....


:)

[hamish]

Enough already...