Some win, and some loose!

[Masahiro]

Having read so many of these "how long did it take you to get shodan", "how long should one wait to grade" and "what is the appropriate time for grading" threads. This is something I began to ponder on. How long did it took those of you who have won your division to win, in other words how long did it take "you" to win your division.(if you did win indeed) For example, if you were in mudansha division for 2 years (from sankyu to ikkyu in 2 years) and won the division in 2 years. Or, if you spent 2 years in sandan and won the sandan division in the second year before you tested for yondan. When replying to this thread, please also include how long your've done kendo total, as well as how long it took you to win your division and the number of years (time) you spent in that certain division. This thread will help me ito conduct a research in helping those of you who are interested in knowing when it's time to grade, and how long should one stay in a certain division. So the more people reply, the better! Although this thread is generally directed to those individuals who have won their division, any other comments and suggestions by all are certainly welcomed and appreciated.

[Gary Severyn]

Lets see... according to your personal profile, you're 20 years young and you're presently in Pittsburg. Hmmm... And you say, "...This thread will help me to conduct a research in helping those of you who are interested in knowing when it's time to grade, and how long should one stay in a certain division."

Okay, I'll bite. Just what makes you qualified to provide to anyone, when it's time for them to grade or how long they should stay in a certain division??? Based solely on how you've worded your inquiry... my first impression tells me you know absolutely nothing about the subject matter (in this case, Kendo).

There is no "standard" regarding exactly when a student should be promoted... only recommendations and a huge variance from dojo to dojo, based on the presiding sensei.

[Neil Gendzwill]

What's shiai performance got to do with grading?

[slidercrank]

I cannot understand why it's so hard for some native English speakers to know the difference between "loose" and "lose."

[Masahiro]

To Gary~
Wo, hold on a minute. As I said, it's a "research" not my "own judgement". What's with the hostility? I am sure there have been a misunderstanding. Perhaps you misread my messege, maybeI wasn't being clear. In any case, it is my intention to conduct a healthy "scientic research". And we all know there are several necessary procedures to follow, "gathering" data being one of the critical/essential steps. However, just as I said "any comments and suggestions" are welcome and appreciated. I certainly acccept your kind thoughts.

p.s. English is not my native language, so do not attack the way I word my sentense. Second, I am third year college pre-med student, while I do not claim to be the expert in conducting a scientific research, "age" in my case has little bearing on my knowlege in conducting one. Be that as it may, you are free to assume what you like. But mark my words, do not mistake me for one of these new-b 16 year old that just recent started doing kendo and comes on line and start new threads just because they have limited social life. Lastly, please don't take offense to my words as I have taken none from your. >_*


To Neil~
I will also equate what you said Neil "what's shia performance got to do with grading" into my final analysis. But Neil, don't the sensei(s) say one's ability to perform well in shiai is accounted for how well one does kendo in whole? Of course, I am sure you are probably asking "what's winning got to do with grading?" I assure you while winning is not particularly important to some individuals, I ask you this "Is winning the result of good kendo?" or "Is loosing the result of good kendo?" I've always enjoyed your comments, and have gotten to know you from your posts well enough to know you are a considerate persona when you speak. Thus, I welcome your opposition. If I may clear up any other question you have please feel free to reply to my post.

As for all, please people help me out by replying to the informations I need.

[Masahiro]

I cannot understand why it's so hard for some native English speakers to know the difference between "loose" and "lose." I am half Japanese,and half Taiwanese. So, English or "American" rather is not my native language. Slidercrank, please be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

[Gary Severyn]

Please accept my humble apology. I admit my "tone of voice" with my written communication can, at times, come off seeming rather harsh. Apparently, I misunderstood the "big picture" of the intent of your inquiry.

Again, I apologize... and now I'll go crawl back under the rock from whence I came. :robot:

[Anime12478]

I cannot understand why it's so hard for some native English speakers to know the difference between "loose" and "lose."
We all know the difference, it's just that the word has the long "o" sound so it is quite common to type that extra o in there. Besides, as long as we all know the difference, why does it really matter?

[Masahiro]

Dear Gary-san,

please apologies aren't needed. I did not take any offense, if anything I would have to say you helped to make this thread clearer. Thank you once again for your support. I look forward in hearing more from you.

[KendokaJim]

From my limited understanding of kendo, shiai is not necessarily a good way to judge one's kendo. Good kendo does not necessarily mean winning, as many shiai techniques are not considered "proper", or "good", kendo. Testing is based on proper kendo, not winning or losing (at least that's what I've experienced and been told! :wink: ).

[Masahiro]

From my limited understanding of kendo, shiai is not necessarily a good way to judge one's kendo. Good kendo does not necessarily mean winning, as many shiai techniques are not considered "proper", or "good", kendo. Testing is based on proper kendo, not winning or losing (at least that's what I've experienced and been told! :wink: ). Yes, very good points. Interestingly enough, from a conversation I had with a friend of mine last night. He suggested that a "good" kendoist would have the ability to adjust "his/her" kendo according to the circumstance at hand. As a result, it isn't hard to imagine individuals who can both win tournaments and test with beautiful kendo. Of course, if I wanted to know how many people have won their division I would have just asked that in the first place. But instead I have listed a number of things to be considered in my "data base". With that said, I welcome more replies.

[yakesumi]

Well, personally I do not find this research meaningful.
Rank does not necessarily reflect one's ability to win a tournament. Therefore a fresh 3dan can win the division the next day he/she passes the shinsa. There can be a person never win anything but pass the shinsa smoothly each time with minimun required time intervals. There are people with excellent athletic ability, who are really talented, who really work hard, etc, etc, etc. Only because some one win their division title in their 3rd year in 3dan and promoted to 4dan the next day/month does not mean I can/ should go for my 4dan after 3 years of being 3dan. Too many variables in there!
There can be only one 1st place in a given division in a tournament, and there will be more than one person pass their shinsa. Also,some people will never win their division in their life. We do not feel we are ready to take shinsa cause we win the division title. Nor would sensei recommend you to take shinsa only because you win.
Therefore this research will not help people to know when it is time to take a grading test, or how long should a person stay in one grade.
You have to have certain understandings in kendo--not only in the techniques but also concept-wise, philosophy-wise; not just be able to use a waza but know the reasoning to it-- to be awarded a certain rank, which have already been outlined in the federations' shinsa guide; there are certain age requirement, time interval etc, which will also give people a feel about how long (at least) should they wait, and how to improve themselves towards the next level in that amount of time.
I just do not see the correlation between winning the division and readiness to take the grading test.
So I would say come up with some other specific aims so it will fit your research, or please point the big picture of this research out for me (I still dont see it, sorry). Or maybe you want to learn more about what grading in kendo means first? I think That might help refine your research a bit.

[Paburo]

there are no rank divisions in my country.

here rank is not a handicap, or an aid. only your kendo is.

so as its been said before, whats got grading got to do with winning?

[Masahiro]

Well, personally I do not find this research meaningful.
Rank does not necessarily reflect one's ability to win a tournament. That is correct. While rank does not "necessarily" reflect one's ability to win a tournament. "Rank" does have some corrolation to one's maturity in terms of kendo growth(psychologically and thus physically). This is why I feel sometimes we will hear a mudansha win against a yudansha in a bout. (say Shodan to Nidan) If one's understanding of kendo (techiniques and concept, just as you mentioned) does not match their rank. I feel perhaps it will be difficult to test out of their current rank and thus never able to win any bout or let along tournament. I hope you can read what I wrote, and no more than what is written.
Therefore a fresh 3dan can win the division the next day he/she passes the shinsa. uh huh, and so I would hypothesize that this "fresh sandan" would have to had paid more effort in training than those opponents he won against. People who win don't just win matches because they can do "shia" kendo really well, or the judge likes them. Perhaps they will win one or a handfull of bouts, but in the long run those who win are the ones who dedicated more time to their training! I welcome you to prove me wrong.here can be a person never win anything but pass the shinsa smoothly each time with minimun required time intervals. There are people with excellent athletic ability, who are really talented, who really work hard, etc, etc, etc. Only because some one win their division title in their 3rd year in 3dan and promoted to 4dan the next day/month does not mean I can/ should go for my 4dan after 3 years of being 3dan. Too many variables in there! Yes, I can see why you do not find this "research" to be of any "meaning" to you. With your mind already made up, surely, you have no use for this the end result of this research. And even if you do not like my analysis, that's what "scientific research" is, it is for the benefit of a general group of people. It maybe wrong, and it will need to be revised and reconducted. But, I certainly wont get discouraged from all of you who have raised an eye brow to this thread. >_*
There can be only one 1st place in a given division in a tournament, and there will be more than one person pass their shinsa. Yes, and what does that tell you? While a number of people are capable and rightfully deserve that particular rank. To "competition" is that intense, and that "to win" amongst these individuals is a reward reserved only for one. Just because more than one person can pass the test, should you dismiss the importance of shinsa training? It is a type of training to help us progress in addition to training exercises such as kakarikeiko, ji-keiko, and kirikaeshi.

Also,some people will never win their division in their life. We do not feel we are ready to take shinsa cause we win the division title. Nor would sensei recommend you to take shinsa only because you win. Yes, some people will never win their division, and yes nor would a sensei recommend you to take shinsa only because you won. I agree with you. I never mentioned anything that would suggest that I disagree with you. I agree with you completely.
Therefore this research will not help people to know when it is time to take a grading test, or how long should a person stay in one grade. This is your subjective opinion. Do you know for sure this research will not help people? If so, how do you know for sure? My analysis (God knows when I'll ever get the data I need) will not serve as a guideline for anyone on when to take the test. After all just as you said, there are already pre-determined critieria and rules by which you can follow according to AUSKF and other Kendo associations. When's the last time you read a research that reads "this research set the guideline for when the hurricane is going to occur during the year?" No, I don't think so. For it would be impossible to make such cliam. Because anything man made is inevitably subjected to human error. So my final analysis just like any other research would read something like this "A research which I've conducted "indicates" so and so. .. ..." You might not agree with the result, (notice how I say result, and not answer!) but it would be nice just to know.

I just do not see the correlation between winning the division and readiness to take the grading test. There may, and there may not be a correlation. I don't know! I don't have any data as of yet. Thus, I have not made any subjected claims that there would be.

So I would say come up with some other specific aims so it will fit your research, or please point the big picture of this research out for me (I still dont see it, sorry). No don't be sorry. It's hard I think to write things down on a forum and be clear about it. I've noticed trends of people over analyzing other's words and thus causing some unneccessary misunderstanding. It's just the down side of being able to communicate with the world at the speed of your finger tips. I do have to say I will not be able to provide you "some other specific aims" my aims (although you still might not see it) suits the need of my research perfectly. You suppose every scientists who conduct a research sit there and tell their subject what they are trying to find out before the subject under go the experimentation? No, that would provoke some subjective biased opinion on the test subject. I think you meant to say "come up with some other specific aims" so that it will help me to prove there is no need for your time to conduct this research. Sadly, I can't because what I am "hoping" to do is for a good cause.

Or maybe you want to learn more about what grading in kendo means first? I think That might help refine your research a bit. I am just going to completely dismiss last part of your comment. If nothing you've read so far has changed your thoughts on my intention of conducting this research then I would like you to repeat your own words back to yourself. Don't take offense now! It's always nice to have a "debate" without a "confrontation"

[Masahiro]

there are no rank divisions in my country.

here rank is not a handicap, or an aid. only your kendo is.

so as its been said before, whats got grading got to do with winning?
Please find the answers you are looking for in my previous post on this thread. It would require a bit of "critical thinking" as I am sure you have no trouble in. Good luck,

[Neil Gendzwill]

Masahiro, consider this scenario: a 21 year old who's been playing in tournaments since he's 10 comes up against a 40 year old with little tournament experience. The 21 year old uses sheer speed and athleticism to jump in from the outside and hit the older player's kote. The 40 year old steps in strongly, breaks the younger person's kamae and hits men clearly. Who wins if it's a tournament? Who passes if it's a yondan grading?

Shiai performance can't be tied to grading performance. I'll never win my division, unless it's some small local tournament. At any of the big tournaments in Vancouver or Toronto, the guys who win are typically Team Canada or Team USA members/contenders. They have loads of tournament experience and the opportunity to play at that pace and in those conditions regularily. Somehow I've managed to struggle through my ranks.

[grasshopper_r2]

As a humble note...How a person conducts themself when they win and/or lose speaks very loudly to me. As I understand, character is not found in the winning, but in the courage to join the race.

[Washington]

This thread will help me to conduct a research in helping those of you who are interested in knowing when it's time to grade, and how long should one stay in a certain division.
I was talking with a fellow student a couple weeks ago about whether or not to take part in tournaments. When asked if I planned on entering, I said that it would almost be mandatory in my opinion. You can sit at home and play music like a god... but then get up on a stage and suck. In the dojo your strikes and forms may all be there. Show up every practice and it's all-good but what happens when you "get into the ring?"

I'm shy a few months of a year of kendo so far and have only watched tournaments not entered in any so I am drawing on experience in other fields to reply to your thread. I am just assuming that the experience you gain from entering and participating in tournaments can only be learned from taking part. Logically that makes sense to me. Competition aside I would think strictly as a learning tool tournaments would be an invaluable resource.

To answer your question with another question.. (annoying huh?)... can "when it is time to grade" and "how long in a certain division" be grouped together into one "formula" ?

Apart I can see it sure. But together in one seems much like an individual basis to me that can't really be formulated.

[Masahiro]

Masahiro, consider this scenario: a 21 year old who's been playing in tournaments since he's 10 comes up against a 40 year old with little tournament experience. The 21 year old uses sheer speed and athleticism to jump in from the outside and hit the older player's kote. The 40 year old steps in strongly, breaks the younger person's kamae and hits men clearly. Who wins if it's a tournament? Who passes if it's a yondan grading?
While I am not definately not qualified to judge a yondan match. In this case, I don't think the young kendoist should be awarded a kote uchi against his older opponent. After all I know critirias for yondan gradings requires its candidates to demonstarte a "solide kamae" and to "initiat attacks with kensen and seme". So, to say the least I think if this was a shia bout, it would just continue. (As I have seen judges make no decision in a scenarios similar like this one and just allow the match to continue) Unless, the older player executs a beautiful "debana men" and the young player was unable to regain his posture after his attempt at kote due to the men-uchi. To answer your second question, "Who passes if it's a yondan test?" I really don't know. I know there have been cases where both competitiors pass, even though they were each other's opponent. In my personal opinion, I really do believe that in shinsa one is being judged on whether she/he understand the concept behind the techniques required and use that "knowledge" to execute the techniques at the appropriate moments for that particular grade; rather then "how well he/she can use their techiniques against their opponent and beat them as fast as possible" That is what shia keikos are for. I am not sure I know where you are going with this one Neil, but did I answer your qustion?

Shiai performance can't be tied to grading performance.
Yes, I agree. As I've mentioned time after time. But how one handles the pressure under a shia bout certainly has a lot to do with how one handles the pressure during a "shinsa" bout. If you don't perform well in matches, is it because you are nervous? Or is it because you just haven't practice enough? There are many different reasons to why one "loses"(look I can spell slidercrank:)) in ji-keiko or shia keiko. There are also various plathera of reasons why one wins.


I'll never win my division, unless it's some small local tournament.
So what if you win your division only because it's some small local tournament? Are you not satisfied at winning regardless? Or do you feel no sense of "accomplishment" because you use winning to gauge your kendo against others. Sometimes people win by only milliseconds in bicycle races, sometimes football (American) football matches are won because of that one inche of difference in the yardage gained. So why is it less "glorious" only to win some small local tournament? We all have our limitations! We can only do the best we are able to and leave the rest up to fate. I thought the spirit of "sutemi" advocates this notion?

At any of the big tournaments in Vancouver or Toronto, the guys who win are typically Team Canada or Team USA members/contenders. They have loads of tournament experience and the opportunity to play at that pace and in those conditions regularily.
Sadly, people who are chosen for their National Kendo teams are the top players. But that is why they do kendo. "To compete against the best, in hope to become the best." Others have different reasons for studying kendo. And do these top players usually advance through ranks pretty easily? (say up to rokudan)Thus, does that show a connection between being good at shia and progressing through the ranks? Maybe! Maybe NOT! Again, I need datas to prove or "disprove" this possible relationship.

[Masahiro]

As a humble note...How a person conducts themself when they win and/or lose speaks very loudly to me.
How true! Those are words of wisdom.

[Masahiro]

To answer your question with another question.. (annoying huh?)... can "when it is time to grade" and "how long in a certain division" be grouped together into one "formula" ?

Apart I can see it sure. But together in one seems much like an individual basis to me that can't really be formulated. No actually I answer other's questions with questions all the time. I certainly hope Neil doesn't find it annoying when I do it to him. puhahahah! I think "when is it time to grade?" and "how long one has stayed in a certain division" has a lot to do with each other. It is a fact that in order to test for sandan, one must wait at least 2 years after being awarded their nidan certificate. So, yes I do think the 2 questions have a lot to do with each other. A person who has received their nidan rank and immediately quits kendo and does not practice ever after certainly can not test for sandan. On the other hand, someone who practices twice a day, every single day, after receiving Nidan should certainly test for Sandan after 2 years. The waiting period itself is subjective, but the efforts isn't! Because you can see one's effort in their kendo!

[mingshi]

So why is it less "glorious" only to win some small local tournament?
What's so happy about winning enjin shiai keiko in your own dojo?!?
What if your division only has 10 people fighting and not 100?
Those in Japan struggle to win at their local town taikai before going to the prefectural taikai, let alone the All Japan...

Kendo shinsa is a binary activity. You either pass or fail. You dont get an ABCDE grades. Its in shiai that you have win/lose points, rankings, etc.

Sort out your ego, mate.

[Gerald Audette]

This thread will help me ito conduct a research in helping those of you who are interested in knowing when it's time to grade, and how long should one stay in a certain division. So the more people reply, the better! Although this thread is generally directed to those individuals who have won their division, any other comments and suggestions by all are certainly welcomed and appreciated.Hmmm...Okay, you said you're pre-med. Please don't take offense, but coming at this from the perspective of a trained hypothesis-driven scientist, I have a few questions. First - What is your hypothesis? What are you looking for specifically? Scientific pursuit begins with a basic question that you are looking to answer. Second - How are you going to conduct your research? Do you have a series of questions that you will provide to willing participants of your study? This is critical in getting a consistent base from which to draw your conclusions. Third - What is a good statistical number for you? This type of research rely's heavily on statistics to make it believable to the community at large. Fourth - Why direct it only at people who've won their respective divisions? If your results come from such a small sample (there can be only 1 winner in each division in each tournament), your results will right away be biased. Scientific research should be unbiased. Hence this point couples with the previous 2 points...you need a broad base of respondants and a good sample number to work with.

Having said all the above, I'll bite and answer your initial question: I have never won my division at any level. I have been practice kendo for over 6 years now, and have recently successfully challenged my sandan exam. I don't feel that winning a shiai is an indication that I am "ready" to grade. Sometimes shiai is the luck of the draw...you get a good couple draws and you can make it to the semi-finals or finals. If I win a match in a tournament, great. If I get a good solid point, great. Even if I loose the match but played to my potential, I've won. While I try to keep to the times dictated by the CKF for grading, I don't ever expect to pass the exam, or to even take it right away. I take advice from my sensei and other kendoka on when they think I might be ready to take the test. Of course it would be nice to win a tournament, but I'd rather get a nice point off someone than win a tournament.

HTH. If you come up with a good series of questions for your research, please feel free to include me in your study. You can email me at gerald.audette@ualberta.ca

Cheers. :)

[Neil Gendzwill]

I am not sure I know where you are going with this one Neil, but did I answer your qustion?
The point wasn't to get you to answer a question, the point was to get you to consider that the criterion for shinsa and shiai are quite different. If it helps your understanding any, the younger person in my hypothetical situation is very likely to win the shiai, but fail shinsa, and vice-versa for the older person.

[yakesumi]

Just dont say your research is scientific and I will feel better, really. Not saying you should not do this. And sadly you over-read my words already.
Forget about my "determined mind" for a moment....
If you really want to get data, you can search for people who have won, contact them, ask your questions, conducting a research you can not just sit and wait.
If you want to benefit the general population, sampling only the top class may not be a best way to go.....
And I still strongly suggest you to re-think the whole thing about shiai, grading, kendo...... never hurt to think twice
Micheal Jordan was a great NBA player but not everyone who tried to do exactly what he did can be a great NBA player.........
wasting enough webspace already.. :smiley:

[yakesumi]

wasting enough webspace already.. :smiley:

I mean, I am. So that it is clear :redface:

[Nanbanjin]

So has anyone here ever won a tournament?

In my first year of kendo we practiced kendo six days a week and had in house shiai every thursday. Not only did I never win, I didn't score a single point. I got shodan in eleven months. Fourth dan in thirteen years. Currently training fifteen years.

[Will]

Sadly, people who are chosen for their National Kendo teams are the top players.


I don't know why this is a sad affair.

[Hai_hai]

How long did it took those of you who have won your division to win, in other words how long did it take "you" to win your division...
It took Daniel Larusso a lot of training with an old Japanese man to learn the way of the open hand, karate do. It doesn't matter what rank you hold. I think you need to listen to some Bananarama... to get motivated.

[Masahiro]

What's so happy about winning enjin shiai keiko in your own dojo?!? Who said anything about winning in one's own dojo?

What if your division only has 10 people fighting and not 100? That's 10 people you fought and won against, instead of 100. Suppose if the "All Japan kendo championship" had only 5 contestant in the next couple of years, I don't think the winner would complain about the "lack of competition".

Those in Japan struggle to win at their local town taikai before going to the prefectural taikai, let alone the All Japan... Doesn't this contradict against your "What if your division only has 10 people fighting and not 100?" comment? So you suppose someone who won their small local town taikai complains about the lack of competition? No, they simply go on to the next round of competition.


Sort out your ego, mate.
If I had an ego problem "mate", I assure you, your mood will certain change from bad to worse after reading my posts. Luckily, I always keep my "id" and "ego" on check and in homeostasis, >_* .

[Masahiro]

Hmmm...Okay, you said you're pre-med. Please don't take offense, but coming at this from the perspective of a trained hypothesis-driven scientist, I have a few questions. First - What is your hypothesis? What are you looking for specifically? Scientific pursuit begins with a basic question that you are looking to answer. Second - How are you going to conduct your research? Do you have a series of questions that you will provide to willing participants of your study? This is critical in getting a consistent base from which to draw your conclusions. Third - What is a good statistical number for you? This type of research rely's heavily on statistics to make it believable to the community at large. Fourth - Why direct it only at people who've won their respective divisions? If your results come from such a small sample (there can be only 1 winner in each division in each tournament), your results will right away be biased. Scientific research should be unbiased. Hence this point couples with the previous 2 points...you need a broad base of respondants and a good sample number to work with.

Having said all the above, I'll bite and answer your initial question: I have never won my division at any level. I have been practice kendo for over 6 years now, and have recently successfully challenged my sandan exam. I don't feel that winning a shiai is an indication that I am "ready" to grade. Sometimes shiai is the luck of the draw...you get a good couple draws and you can make it to the semi-finals or finals. If I win a match in a tournament, great. If I get a good solid point, great. Even if I loose the match but played to my potential, I've won. While I try to keep to the times dictated by the CKF for grading, I don't ever expect to pass the exam, or to even take it right away. I take advice from my sensei and other kendoka on when they think I might be ready to take the test. Of course it would be nice to win a tournament, but I'd rather get a nice point off someone than win a tournament.

HTH. If you come up with a good series of questions for your research, please feel free to include me in your study. You can email me at gerald.audette@ualberta.ca

Cheers. :)
Many good points to be considered. Thank you for helping me refining my research methods. If I have farther questions, I will write to you directly.

[Masahiro]

Just dont say your research is scientific and I will feel better, really. Not saying you should not do this. And sadly you over-read my words already.
Forget about my "determined mind" for a moment....
If you really want to get data, you can search for people who have won, contact them, ask your questions, conducting a research you can not just sit and wait.
If you want to benefit the general population, sampling only the top class may not be a best way to go.....
And I still strongly suggest you to re-think the whole thing about shiai, grading, kendo...... never hurt to think twice
Micheal Jordan was a great NBA player but not everyone who tried to do exactly what he did can be a great NBA player.........
wasting enough webspace already.. :smiley:
Yeah, I felt kind "weird" after lable-ling it a "scientific" research. But, after I submitted the post, the 5 minutes edit time passed. <shrug. .. ..> I have currently datas from 10 people, whom have all won their divisions one time or another. I posted this "survey" persay online hoping I could draw a larger response, so it's not like I am just sitting here and waiting doing nothing. I was waiting for replies. Instead, I spend a large amount of time defending a cause I which I believe in. Neverthelss, it doesn't bother me. I certainly will rethink about "the whole thing shia" and "shinsa"., but at my age 20. I can only try to out do myself, that is to win shias and progress through ranks as competently as I can. Thus far, I don't play any differently in shia or in shisa. So we'll see how that works out!. Anways, seems like I am wasting some webspace of my own. hahahaha. cheers! :)

[Masahiro]

So has anyone here ever won a tournament?

In my first year of kendo we practiced kendo six days a week and had in house shiai every thursday. Not only did I never win, I didn't score a single point. I got shodan in eleven months. Fourth dan in thirteen years. Currently training fifteen years.
Thank you for your "willing" reply, Yondan in 13 years, that is most impressive. My question to you now is, do you suppose you would have won your division had you stayed in each rank a little longer?

[Masahiro]

I don't know why this is a sad affair.

Well, given the context in which my words were expressed. But I don't suppose its any priority of yours to at least consider things from my side. OH well, if you ever play against me, I will see to it you experience this irony.

[JSchmidt]

Having said all the above, I'll bite and answer your initial question: I have never won my division at any level. I have been practice kendo for over 6 years now, and have recently successfully challenged my sandan exam. I don't feel that winning a shiai is an indication that I am "ready" to grade. Sometimes shiai is the luck of the draw...you get a good couple draws and you can make it to the semi-finals or finals. If I win a match in a tournament, great. If I get a good solid point, great. Even if I loose the match but played to my potential, I've won. While I try to keep to the times dictated by the CKF for grading, I don't ever expect to pass the exam, or to even take it right away. I take advice from my sensei and other kendoka on when they think I might be ready to take the test. Of course it would be nice to win a tournament, but I'd rather get a nice point off someone than win a tournament.

Replace CKF with BKA and that's exactly what I would have like to have written:).

Jakob

[m_french]

I cannot understand why it's so hard for some native English speakers to know the difference between "loose" and "lose."
Kill in the blanks:

If you're kamae is to _________ you will probably_____.

[m_french]

It took Daniel Larusso a lot of training with an old Japanese man to learn the way of the open hand, karate do. It doesn't matter what rank you hold. I think you need to listen to some Bananarama... to get motivated.
Would that be "Cool Summer" or "shanana, hey hey"? or maybe that song they did with "fun boy three" (he was really saying something)

[Nanbanjin]

Thank you for your "willing" reply, Yondan in 13 years, that is most impressive. My question to you now is, do you suppose you would have won your division had you stayed in each rank a little longer?
Yondan in 13 years isn't that impressive when you consider the headstart of grading straight to shodan after eleven months.

I do my best in competitions but I don't give myself much chance of winning. We don't have that many divisions in Australia, just kyu and dan (they wont let me play with the women). I was never a kyu grade so I never got the chance to test my skill in that division, and I can't really answer your question. I won the open team competition this year as taisho, but I don't really see it as much of a reflection on my kendo rank. There was one bout during the comp that I was very happy with where I managed to beat someone who was a higher rank than me. I do feel that the way I played in that match showed that my kendo has improved, however I don't think it means I deserve to be the same rank as the person I beat.

審査の合格は試合の結果と関係ないでしょう。石田健一先生でも、日本選手権で優勝したにかかわらず、八段の 審査で何回か落ちたこともあったでしょう。逆に、すべての八段合格者は日本選手権で優勝しているとはかぎり ません。

私の場合いきなり初段になってしまったもんですので、残念ながらご質問のお答えできかねます。こちらの大会 では段の部一つしゃかありません。
私が初段を取ったのは日本に留学していることでした。たとえ、そのときに一級しか取れず、そのまま帰国した としても、こちらの全国体系では級の部は優勝できていなかったでしょう。

剣道では積極的に挑戦していく精神を持つことが大切だと思います。だから試合で優勝ができるまで昇段審査に チャレンジしないというのはあまりいい考え方ではありませんよね。試合に優勝しようとし、優勝ができなくて も次は昇段審査にもチャレンジしていくのが一番ベストでしょう。


Even though Ishida Kenichi Sensei won the AJKC he still failed the eight dan test on a few occassions. On the other hand, not all people who pass the eigth dan test have won the AJKC.

I got Shodan when I was at high school in Japan. If i had only got first kyu at that time I doubt I would have been able to win the kyu division when I got back to Australia.

In kendo I it is important to be positive about each new challenge, so I don't think that waiting until you can win a competition till you go for a new grade is a good way of thinking. You should try and do well in competitions, but even if you get beaten you should be positive about grading if that is the next challenge that you face.

[kuzu70]

Kill in the blanks:

If you're kamae is to _________ you will probably_____.

How about this:

If your pants are too _______, your snake will be let __________.

Wait..............that doesn't work.

[Mikeyprime]

I like how there is always a great deal of fuss surrounding "competition kendo". Neil stated it best by saying he may not win tournaments, however his kendo is at a level where he merits and attains his rank.

What is comes down to is they (Team members) have more experience in that arena and are able to capitalize on those situations. Likewise, just because you capitalized on it doesnt mean you are any better, you just have more experience.

This brings up an interesting point though. Neil is from a small area in Canada, while it appeasr most of the team members are from larger more kendo intensive areas. I have noticed that areas that have smaller concentrations of kendo usually focus on basics more than competition kendo/strategy and fair well on shinsa exams better. And it is no surprise as they are doing just their regular kendo, no flash, no fancyness, just stragiht basic kendo during a shinsa. On the other hand, many times, the competition kendoists (not to say they have poor kendo) feel somewhat out of their element as the fancy/flashy kendo is frowned upon during a shinsa. Thus they end up adapting their kendo to something it is not and it ends up being a tad awkward.

In the end, what is it you want to attain? Point in case was not all hachidan won the ajkc. however, level of kendo at a hachidan competition is much higher.