Recieving Tsuki

[Hagakure]

Wow, it sure has been a while since I've been here.

Well, I recently got ni-kyu, and for some reason unbeknowngst to me, my sempai have taken to using tsuki a lot on me at this level. While I'm fairly sure it's not appropriate at my level, I am reluctant to complain because I like the idea of having the expierince.

But I am puzzled. Everytime I'm hit with it, I get short of breath for a moment. Is there something I am not doing? Should I be mindful of the vunerabilities of tsuki somehow?

Also, when is a student typically taught tsuki? In your dojo? In Japan? (Hyaku? Confound?)

Thanks a bunch!

Rei

Mark

[qpuppy]

Heya Hagakure....

hmmm.. tsuki... short of breath for a moment... This is quite comment when receiving tsuki. I no expect and yet i could be wrong, but from what I know, when that happens, your sempai is striking you too hard for you level to receive or else s/he is striking slightly too low.

But what you are experiencing is quite common. I learnt a way of receiving that might help is by tucking your chin inward while receiving. It should reduce the force abit.. but I found it only works during kihon, since jikeiko or shiai is usually unexpected to get hit there, thus no time to tuck your chin in....

My senpais?... you option? (please correct me if I'm wrong) :)

Al

[AlexM]

Check out the "fighting from hasso and other. . ." thread in this section to read some views on tsuki.

In kihon I usually tuck in my chin and lock my jaw in a futile attempt to absorb the hit without getting a concussion.

In keiko it's fairly easy to parry and at any rate it's not used by many people in my dojo except the sensei (major fencing background), myself (not because I'm good with it or anything) and a few other people. In keiko I don't think I've ever been hurt by tsuki. . . except when it misses (oh the pain). I once managed a perfect ai-uchi tsuki with someone in keiko, I don't recommend it.

Tsuki is encouraged in our dojo (note: my sensei is a sadist). I had the "privilege" of being motodachi with my teaching partner when sensei told the beginners (not yet in bogu): "Now we try tsuki". . . cue AlexM's eyes becoming as large as dinner plates (oh the pain). Why do we do tsuki? Because it's elegant, devastating and it's good kendo. When done properly it's safe. Just don't do it because you're pissed, that when things get dangerous. My philosophy is: practice tsuki, learn to control it and let it become a normal part of your arsenal so that you don't just whip it out in anger.

[kendokamax]

Originally posted by AlexM
so that you don't just whip it out in anger.

who are you refering too?! I only punch people.

lol one funny thing about tsuki is when someone does it in keiko you can easely expect the oponent to come back with a tsuki attack very soon.

In keiko I usualy do it right after someone tried it on me, just to show..ok I can't really do it too...moslty it fails, but I think the right attitude is that. Same thing goes for gyaku do- hehe

[reicheru]

In Japan, tsuki is not allowed until high school level. Since the dojo at which I now train is primarily made up of junior high school and elementary school students, we never formally practice tsuki. However, I was first taught tsuki in the US, before I even had any sort of kyu rating. As for whether or not that was "appropriate," I can't really comment... I wasn't really encouraged to use it in keiko, only when practicing waza, so I don't think it really matters what level you start at.

In some ways, I think it would be a good idea to start teaching it to the junior high school kids in Japan. Why? Because at the moment, some of them are developing (or have already developed) their own styles of defense that leave their tsuki wide open. I often have to resist the urge to go for the easy target (ok, I guess it's never really THAT easy). It seems to me that some of these kids will have a hard time adapting when they do start practicing tsuki! I could be wrong about that; perhaps it's no problem at all for them to suddenly start protecting another target area, but it does seem that it might be easier to teach that from the beginning...

As for the shortness of breath, I agree with the tuck-your-chin approach -- and pay attention to your footwork, 'cause it's a lot easier to receive tsuki if you're well balanced!

Rachel

[Kuri]

Originally posted by Hagakure
...for some reason unbeknowngst to me, my sempai have taken to using tsuki a lot on me at this level. While I'm fairly sure it's not appropriate at my level, I am reluctant to complain because I like the idea of having the expierince.

Maybe your sempai is trying to tell you that you are not holding the centre. If they can easily tsuki you, then you definetly don't have the centre. Is very easy to block...keep the centre. :D As for receiving, you should always have you chin tucked in. It's all part of good posture. That way, you'll never be caught out.:D

[JSchmidt]

Keep your head straight and lean/walk into it. Leaning back, tucking chin in, whatever, just makes it feel worse. The ones that miss above the tsuki-dare will be uncomfortable no matter what you do :).

Jakob<-reciever of many tsukis.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by JSchmidt
Leaning back, tucking chin in, whatever, just makes it feel worse.
You have to tuck your chin in, or more properly you should have your posture so that your head is straight above your shoulders and the nodo (the tsuki-receiving part of the men) is against your breast bone. If (like me) you have a tendancy to have your head hang forward, then the nodo sticks out and you're more likely to take stray shots to the neck. If you have another common bad habit which is tilting your head up as you attack, then you can take a shot to the windpipe. Not recommended.

If the nodo is against the breastbone, then the impact is absorbed through your chest rather than your neck. Also for many people using old club bogu with soft nodo, this technique helps make up for the worn-out equipment.

[cklin]

I'd have to agree with Neil that it's not just tucking in your chin -- "tucking in your chin" doesn't quite describe the way you're supposed to receive it since it kind of (incorrectly) implies that you're supposed to tilt your head forward (like in a nod).

Ideally, with a set of well-fitting bogu, your nodo will slightly overlapping the top part of your mune (the embroidered part of the dou) when you receive properly. Also, at the time of impact, you should thrust out your chest ever so slightly. This creates a much stiffer target, and the force is better distributed.

As to others' suggestions that your sempai may be hitting too hard, I say: that's part of kendo -- some people hit harder than others.

[Nishi]

Keep your back straight and your chin slightly tucked in so that your neck and back are straight, in other words, hold your kamae, don't waver at all, and if your hit ,so what, thats what you came to do...lol!!

[saki_wooah]

sometimes my ears really hurt after receiving a tsuki... is it the thing you're talking about?

[bukowski]

Receiving tsuki does not need to be complicated. If you lower your head, 1) You lose eye contact, 2) You create a bad posture.
All that one needs to do in order to avoid tsuki is to go from chudan no kamae and simply push your arms forward, with the shinai almost horizontal, thereby sticking him in the stomach and keeping him away from tsuki. Whatever you do, do not knock it away. It is human nature to either pull something towards you or to knock it away when you are endangered by it; doing either one will leave yourself open to attack.

[taiwnezboi]

"All that one needs to do in order to avoid tsuki is to go from chudan no kamae and simply push your arms forward, with the shinai almost horizontal, thereby sticking him in the stomach and keeping him away from tsuki."

That works against two-handed tsuki, but if they use only their left hand to do the tsuki won't their range be greater than yours?

[kendokamax]

I think we were talking about how to receive tsuki during kihon practice...

in keiko there isnt any real way to receive it....it just means u lose..

[JSchmidt]

To avoid tsuki, you only need to push your shinai a little forward whilst keeping the center.

"in keiko there isnt any real way to receive it....it just means u lose.."

Nah..tsuki is very hard to score. You need to catch the opponent frozen for it to work and it's easy to spoil..just walk into and it will bounce off.

Jakob

[Steve]

You shouldn't have to "adopt" any special posture to recieve a tsuki. If you maintain a straight body posture, your men should do the rest. Believe me, it makes a world of difference, especially when you are the tsuki target for 45 minutes!

As far as learning / using Tsuki, we encourage it at our club, although we obey the age restriction of high school as a minimum. I used to use Tsuki quite a bit, both Morote and Katate.

We emphasize Tsuki as it is the basis for all of the other strikes, as well as learning seme.

[Aoi]

are you sure your men's not too big for you??

Anyway, tsuki's a very important technique. Keeping the center, and plus it teaches you a strong seme while you do your cut. Tsuki-Men type of thing. When you actually do a furikaburi, your kensen (ie strongest seme position) is dead as it isn't facing your oponent. Some Senseis prefer their students doing their technique small and strong, so they teach tsuki at an early period. At our dojo, nobody "learnt" tsuki. It's something they derived on their own when learning kendo. Maybe it will be a good way to increase speed and also your concentration to a cut?

[GMason]

I know I have joined the thread late but ......

Your not to close are you ? and they are trying to tell you ???

Just an Idea. If you suddenly start getting hit in the same place or with the same waza that can often be a good sign that you are doing something wrong ???

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by Hagakure
Wow, it sure has been a while since I've been here.

Well, I recently got ni-kyu, and for some reason unbeknowngst to me, my sempai have taken to using tsuki a lot on me ... Everytime I'm hit with it, I get short of breath for a moment. Is there something I am not doing? Should I be mindful of the vunerabilities of tsuki somehow?

Also, when is a student typically taught tsuki? In your dojo? In Japan? (Hyaku? Confound?)

Thanks a bunch!

Rei




Mark


IMHO a ni-kyu should not have tsuki used on them, except in waza practice, because they do not yet know how to receive a tsuki.

In my village you need to be a san-dan to use tsuki in geiko or shiai.

To receive tsuki - firstly, make sure your posture is correct, then be prepared to lift your back foot at the moment of impact to allow your body to move or tilt slightly to the rear and if needed you can step back a little. If you try this, the forward force is minimised a bit, so then the tsuki may not have as much impact and if it misses slightly, you will be a little less likely to receive a love bite.

Best option when you sense a tsuki coming - attack, think about the waza that you know that may be effective.

[nukido]

In the US, tsuki is considered an advanced skill and reserved for shodan and above due to its potential to cause injury.
It is very difficult to suddenly be expected to perform such a skill unless one practices early. Generally, we start at 2 kyu. At this level, one has a good grasp of one's own skill level and can control the strike. I found it helps to start with a small ball hung on a string, hanging at nodo level. First with both hands and proper koshi, then with left hand only. This helped with accuracy. Then, I worked up to a small spot on a post. This helped guage how much power I should apply from my hips.
Hope this helps.

[Dwayne P.]

Just to add onto what has already been mentioned:

If your getting tsuki’ed a lot during jigeiko, then it may be a sign of in-activity on your part and its your sempai’s way of telling you. Possibly his way of trying to provoke you into attacking and/or battling for the center more.