Summary of my beginners bogu research

[Yo...osh!]

Hi, I'm a beginner kumdoka in Sydney. I have been training for 3 months, and now I'm beginning to think about bogu. I've done some reading on the forums...and this is my summary of bogu basics for beginners.



The quality of bogu as I have read is made up of three main components. Materials, length of stitching and craftsmanship.

With Materials, quality scale is usually starts from synthetic leather,
cow leather then deer leather. However, within cow leather for example
there may be high quality cow leather and low quality cow leather. So
high quality synthetic leather may be better than low quality cow leather. Titanium men is heavier but more durable than duralumin.

With stitching, generally the narrower the length of stitch, the more protection it offers. So that's y 6mm is much cheaper than 3mm. However, if bogu is too tightly stitched, then it may adversely affect padding and comfort.

With craftsmanship, that is usually indicated by the reputation and
history of the company. The top Japanese companies have master craftsmen, that's y their bogu's are so expensive. Some Korean companies are lesser known so buying from them may be risky.



Tare and doh is not as important as kote and men.

The best quality online bogu suppliers seem to be Moribudo, Koei and Chiba. If you have the money then no doubts you should to go for these.



Those on tighter budgets, might have to go Korean.



Korean manufacturers seyhun and e-bogu seem to have gotten favourable reviews. Recently e-kendo has grown in popularity.


If you have Korean speaking friend, then it might be worth the risk to try out these Korean manufacturers.

www.mykendo.com
www.i-hansin.com
www.pentagon.co.kr (http://www.pentagon.co.kr/)

www.igumdo.com (http://www.igumdo.com/)


They can be 3-4 times cheaper than Japanese bogu manufacturers.

The main criticism of Korean bogu seem to be that they use cheaper materials. However, from enquiries I have found that you can always bargain and upgrade the materials.



The end result is that for a beginner, for a budget of say $450, a Japanese supplier could offer you 5mm synthetic leather and duralumin. Whereas if you bargain with a Korean speaking supplier they can get you an upgraded 4mm set with deer leather kote and titanium men for that price.



Therefore, it's hard for a beginner to choose Japanese over Korean I think, IMHO. Unless the Japanese craftsmanship and reputation is so superior that it makes up for everything.



What do you think? Which one would you choose?



If any mistakes in my summary, please correct me.



Hope this helps all the other beginner kendokas/kumdokas.



Sorry the post is so long, please forgive me.

[Future Head]

You're paying for the supposed reputation with Japanese-made bogu, I presume. Is this markup based on actual verifiable history? Would I have reason to trust a Japanese-made set over an otherwise indistinguishable Korean set? Seems a little odd.

[AkuSokuZan]

My advice is, get a bogu that will last for hard practices and will be a good investment in the long run. I myself got a japanese six mm bogu from Masaharu, i think, for only $300 because it was slightly used. For a begginner getting that good of a bogu set would be foolish because after a while, you may want to quit (hopefully not) and buying an expensive bogu would be wasting money. When you are truly dedicated to kendo, then buy something of high quality that will last very long.

[Yo...osh!]

Thanks Akusokuzan. Masaharu...first time I heard it. I'll look into it. Do you think $450 is too expensive for the average beginner? I thought it's quite a standard price.

[Catherine]

The $450 set seems to be what most beginners in Sydney buy. It is fine.

If you are in a Kumdo dojo however, I recommend that you speak to your teacher before buying bogu. A lot of teachers have special deals with Korean bogu makers and prefer you to buy from their supplier.

Catherine

[kanyil]

Hi Yo...osh,

Great piece of research. You seemed to have canvassed the entire bogu thread and I applaud your efforts!

There are many more reputable bogu makers than you have stated, but I imagine you will gradually come to know them all so that's not a big problem. I started off with a 6mm "student" bogu handed down to me by my uncle, then switched to a Kendoshop 1.2 bu hand-stitched set later on. I have just bought a Chibabogu Mine 6mm machine men (which is still being made). I will be in a better position to compare when I get my new men! :D

Catherine's suggestions, as always, is spot on. I do not have any experience with kumdo dojangs so I can't comment on what their proper etiquette for purchasing bogus/hogus may be.

On the other hand, if you will stick with kendo for the long term, and have enough money for a good set then go for a good set, after all, the bogu is the only thing between you and a 39-inch bamboo stick being swung at you at pretty high speed. Although the Koei set with sorbothane inserts should protect quite well, at pretty low prices too.

[DanDan]

The $450 set seems to be what most beginners in Sydney buy. It is fine.

If you are in a Kumdo dojo however, I recommend that you speak to your teacher before buying bogu. A lot of teachers have special deals with Korean bogu makers and prefer you to buy from their supplier.

Catherine
yea that is a pretty good idea. i got my bogu thru my kumdo instructor in korea and i got it for a really good price. i paid $350 for a 3mm set w/ deer leather parts and a really nice looking doh (has red maple leaves on it) it seems as tho they used japanese material to make it...it has duralumin written in katakana on the mengane. but maybe all mengane have it...i don't know...but it's really nice.

[Yo...osh!]

The $450 set seems to be what most beginners in Sydney buy. It is fine.

If you are in a Kumdo dojo however, I recommend that you speak to your teacher before buying bogu. A lot of teachers have special deals with Korean bogu makers and prefer you to buy from their supplier.

Catherine
You mean a $450 Japanese set? Or a $450 Korean set?


Actually I talked to my teacher and he recommended me to buy bogu. Basically buy the best one within your budget, hence all my research. My budget was $450 max. I got my Korean friend to help me to talk to Korean speaking companies, and yes, you can get SUPER bargains. I was offered 2.5mm set with deer leather kote for $US390. Plus a titanium men would be around $450.

Just seems odd that for the equivalent price a Japanese supplier can only offer you 5mm synthetic leather and duralumin. That's a huge drop-off in quality of materials.

[Yo...osh!]

Thanks for your advice Kanyil, nice to see fellow Taiwanese kendoka.


I didn't know kendo was practiced at all in Taiwan! I surprised when I saw Taiwan come 3rd a couple of times in Kendo World Championships.

But recently I went to a Taiwanese uni website, and they train like crazy. They have kendo training camps, for a week usually. During that week they train from 7am-5pm. Doing EVERYTHING.

[Yo...osh!]

Sorry, mistake. From Korean speaking supplier you can get 2.5mm with deer leather kote and titanium for around $500, not $450 as I mentioned. Sorry. Got my currency converter wrong.

[ben spain]

I along with possibly 100's of other people on this forum are also thinking seriously about buying their first set of Bogu - some who have US$1000 to spend and those that have US$250 to spend - and the question about Korean vs Japanese always comes up (ie. Koei GZ-17 or 3mm Korean etc.).

There are some people here who will tell you Japanese is always best (some truth in that) and others that will tell you that Japanese Bogu is just marked up Korean Bogu (some truth in that as well).

I however agree with you that (at the low end of Bogu pricing) Japanese Bogu is not worth the mark up. If I was considering spending US$1000 and upwards that might be different - but as my Bogu price limit is $500 I would rather get mid-range Korean Bogu than the bottom set of wider stitched Japanese Bogu. This may well not be the best place to put my money - but considering all that I know about Bogu and the correspondence with Bogu manufacturers I have come into contact with - E-Kendo's 3mm is in my opinion excellent value for money and I am aiming to place an order with them at the end of this month.

Kanyil: I know it is a little pedantic - but a size 39 Shinai is NOT 39 inches long - It is 3.9 Shaku long (about 46.5"). A Shinai that measured 39 inches long would make it shorter than a standard Bokken.

[kanyil]

Thanks for your advice Kanyil, nice to see fellow Taiwanese kendoka.

I didn't know kendo was practiced at all in Taiwan! I surprised when I saw Taiwan come 3rd a couple of times in Kendo World Championships.

But recently I went to a Taiwanese uni website, and they train like crazy. They have kendo training camps, for a week usually. During that week they train from 7am-5pm. Doing EVERYTHING.Kendo is not wildly popular in Taiwan, but we have a fairly good number of practitioners. Senseis dating back to the days of us being a Japanese colony doesn't hurt either. There must be at least 20-30 dojos/kendo clubs in Taipei alone.

You are welcome to train with us the next time you come back to Taiwan. I currently train with the Songshan Dojo, the Chungshan Dojo and the National Taipei University of Technology Kendo Club (I'm still trying to figure out a way to make Shudokan's training :S). Each of the three dojos have their own different culture, but we always welcome visitors. :D

p.s. wrt 39 inch shinais, my apologies. was trying to quickly post between work assignments. a 39 inch shinai would be a pretty good thing for tsuki practice :D

[Munnin]

From a US perspective on low end bogu (from lurking on this issue for a month)


Kendoshop.com: service ok, quality ok, value very good.
Full set of bogu #322 4mm(?), deer leather Kote, bag and all strings $350 + $90 shipping
They have had some bad comments but none recently. Good bang for your buck.


e-kendo: service good, quality ok, value excellent.
Full set of bogu #BH300 3mm, cow leather Kote, bag and all strings $360 + $70 shipping
They have a pre-made 2mm set for $420 a tremendous price.
A relatively new company but all good comments so far. Excellent bang for your buck.


E-bogu: service very good, quality ok, value very good.
Full set of bogu 5/2.5 mm, deer leather Kote, strings but no bag $390 free shipping.
California based with a good reputation and they ship stuff quickly. Good bang for your buck with quick shipping besides.

Bogubag: service excellent, quality good, value good.
Full set of bogu GZ-17 5mm, fake leather Kote, all strings bags plus shinai bag $427 free shipping from Japan
Stroud sensei has a reputation others can only envy. While the Bogu may not offer the fancier features at the same price you get better service for the price.


Also ran:

e-mudo: new company on the east coast. Has been unresponsive to e-mail and posts on their own web site.

Eguchi: possibly the only company that can rival Bogubag for reputation but their low end does not appear to be competitive.

Tozando: lots of bad comments recently.

[ISSAC RU]

Hi kenyil :

I have a question to ask about chiba 's bogu set.
I have go thru their website but I don't seem to understand
about their products such as ""Mine''
You said you had purchased a chiba mine men , which i think it
73,500 yen . After the currency exchange..it would be around US$700?
I was totally amazed by the price.....
But could you tell me "whats so good about chiba company's product?''

[Andoru]

Just type "chibabogu" in the search field buddy and you'll see the reviews.

[kanyil]

It will probably be another 5 weeks until I get my order so I honestly can't tell you anything about the Mine yet. Although many others on this forum have said very good things about it. Will update in due course.

[ISSAC RU]

$700 bucks for a Men ..Its gotta be a top-of-line quality men.

[2005 combo]

Hi,

Here is my research findings, you have put together a good quality, interesting article, I hope mine is of use to you.

Hi,

I decided to buy my first bogu set. After Extensive Reasearch and high Recommendations, I decided to Buy my Bogu from www.sehyun.com - here are my reasons.

My recommendations were from a fifth dan Japanese kendoka.

I checked out the folowing sites:
www.ninecircles.co.uk
www.chiba-budogu.com
www.e-bogu.com
www.e-modu.com
www.ebay.com - which had good looking deals for Australia
www.sehyun.com
The sehyun prices were very reasonable compared to the other sites.

The sehyun 1.2 Bu handstiched general set(the colour of stiching I got to choose.), was only £450 all in, easily half the price of most of the other sets, on the wesites I checked. Lots of experienced kendoka/referees/sensei inspected the bogu. The remarked on the fine Bogu, and the good price. The bogu sets started at around £200. I even got a free leather imitation carry bag, and head scarf.

I had to pay via transfer, through my bank. And I recieved my bogu within a week.

I tested the set at the Irish national shiai, and in practice, It was quality. and very comfortable. I never felt hurt, even when faced with the aggressive, all out, tense style, of one of the kendoka in Eireland.

I dont rule out the quality of the bogu at other websites, but I can recommend the value and quality of sehyun.

I hope this article is of some use to any kendoka out there.

Regards Combo 2005

[twotoedgiraffe]

Seems like the webpage for Taipei's kendo clubs are down....Where can I go practice? Anyone got any information? I'm going to be in Taiwan for about a month and would love to practice there.

[DCPan]

Seems like the webpage for Taipei's kendo clubs are down....Where can I go practice? Anyone got any information? I'm going to be in Taiwan for about a month and would love to practice there.

www.kendo.com.tw

The Taiwan Kendo Website exceed their bandwidth from time to time, so don't be surprised if the page doesn't load.

David

[Yo...osh!]

Just out of interest do Taiwanese dojos use Japanese terminology for everything e.g. names of waza, shouting, etiquette??

I was just thinking that it would be quite funny to kiai in Mandarin, because of the intonations. Actually sounds quite funny.

Also is there a huge Kumdo movements there? I visited the "renegade" World Kumdo Association website, and they had their world championships in Taiwan, with over 20 countries participating. Interesting....

[Yo...osh!]

Sorry to clarify no pun intended by use of "renegade".

Mainland Chinese viewers please refrain from talking about politics. I am interested in talking about kendo.

[DCPan]

Just out of interest do Taiwanese dojos use Japanese terminology for everything e.g. names of waza, shouting, etiquette?? ....

Varies from place to place, but at least they shout the basic "men, kote, doh, and tsuki" in Japanese.

I've even seen places that don't seiza at all.


Also is there a huge Kumdo movements there? I visited the "renegade" World Kumdo Association website, and they had their world championships in Taiwan, with over 20 countries participating. Interesting....

The beauty of it is, when you talk about it in Mandarin, the difference in pronounciation of kendo and kumdo becomes meaningless.

I know Yu Sensei in Taichung is fairly close with the Kumdo folks.

FWIW.

[twotoedgiraffe]

None of the information pages for the clubs in Taipei are accessible. The website is loading, but seems like most of the links are broken or down. I grew up in the States, so my reading skills in Chinese really sucks. Does anyone have the contact information for the dojos in Taipei?

[kanyil]

What DC Pan said was exactly right.

Some dojos will use Chinese terms for referring to the wazas, i.e. Tza-Ji Men for Suriage Men, San-Ji-Doh for Nuki-Doh, etc, but these Chinese terms not used consistently, but at least they get the meaning across. After all, it's easier for people to understand the kanji if you pronounce it like Chinese.

I noticed that Yu-Sensei is close with the kumdo folks, and I think they are currently hosting a Winter Kendo Camp in Tai-Chung. It's a very interesting situation we have in Taiwan indeed. :D

All in all, I think with the exception of a few, quite a few dojos in Taiwan are less formal/conservative than Japanese dojos.

[nothing]

e-kendo: service good, quality ok, value excellent.

They have a pre-made 2mm set for $420 a tremendous price.
A relatively new company but all good comments so far. Excellent bang for your buck.




I've been doing a bit of novice investigation based on your research.. and WOW.. this 2mm set seems to be the best bang for your buck. I've been factoring in lots of things including shipping, payment types and evenoveal website ease and overall.. i'm a big e-bogu fan. All 3 of my purchases from them have been cost effective, easy and quick. AND they have a live person there who speaks English and has been a big help.
Well Ebogu has this same set at like $200 more.. I'm not concerned with custom color or embroidery style. I'm really interested in strength, value and durablitlty, and this premade 2mm set at e-kendo seems to be the one...


my $0.02

[nalogg]

You're paying for the supposed reputation with Japanese-made bogu, I presume. Is this markup based on actual verifiable history? Would I have reason to trust a Japanese-made set over an otherwise indistinguishable Korean set? Seems a little odd.
COMMANDER KEEN!