learning japanese...

[burger boy]

Hello all,
Just curious how those of you out there that can speak Japnese went about learning it. Was it formal study at a university or school, self study with computer tutorials, etc or a combination of things? Can anyone recommend any good books/references or any to stay away from?

Thanks for your comments.

burger boy

[Raiza]

I took the official route, as follows:
High school: three years in high school, 3-month educational visit to Japan (Tokyo)
University: one year
Haven't read many Japanese language books (geez, it's been years) but I've got a few I've looked through. These two stand out.

Books to recommend: for speaking
What got me going on a bare-bones survival level in Japan was Barron's "Japanese: The Fast and Fun Way" A user-friendly and nicely illustrated workbook of how to put together basic sentences using romaaji (Japanese written using the roman alphabet) but WAY better than phrasebooks, although phrasebooks have a their place, usually when neither party understands the other. It was a decent supplement to the introductory high school course I was taking. What some people do is they run out and buy the most comprehensive textbook/tape set imaginable and get overwhelmed. This inexpensive item is an easy way to get started. Barron's uses the same format for other languages in the series (e.g French, Spanish, etc.).

Books to recommend (for reading and writing):
Tuttle's "A Guide to Reading & Writing Japanese" -kanji book for almost 2,000 characters (you'll need to master this to have a hope of comprehending a newspaper properly). Describes how to write the kanji but that's it. Adequate but uninteresting as a kanji-learning tool. Many Japanese words involve two or more kanji, so you'll have to cross-reference with a kanji-inclusive dictionary to figure it out the various kanji combinations (ugh).

Books to stay away from:
Anything that says "501 (insert any language here) verbs". Memorizing lists is not the best way to learn.
Highly specialized ones, like the infamous "Making Love in Japanese". Depends on how specialized you really want to be... ;)

Bah, I'm sure people have more to add than this pathetic contribution.

Raiza

[Raiza]

I took the official route, as follows:
High school: three years in high school, 3-month educational visit to Japan (Tokyo)
University: one year
Haven't read many Japanese language books (geez, it's been years) but I've got a few I've looked through. These two stand out.

Books to recommend: for speaking
What got me going on a bare-bones survival level in Japan was Barron's "Japanese: The Fast and Fun Way" A user-friendly and nicely illustrated workbook of how to put together basic sentences using romaaji (Japanese written using the roman alphabet) but WAY better than phrasebooks, although phrasebooks have a their place, usually when neither party understands the other. It was a decent supplement to the introductory high school course I was taking. What some people do is they run out and buy the most comprehensive textbook/tape set imaginable and get overwhelmed. This inexpensive item is an easy way to get started. Barron's uses the same format for other languages in the series (e.g French, Spanish, etc.).

Books to recommend (for reading and writing):
Tuttle's "A Guide to Reading & Writing Japanese" -kanji book for almost 2,000 characters (you'll need to master this to have a hope comprehend a newspaper properly). Describes how to write the kanji but that's it. Adequate but uninteresting as a kanji-learning tool. Many Japanese words involve two or more kanji, so you'll have to cross-reference with a kanji-inclusive dictionary to figure it out the various kanji combinations (ugh).

Books to stay away from:
Anything that says "501 (insert any language here) verbs". Memorizing lists is not the best way to learn.
Highly specialized ones, like the infamous "Making Love in Japanese". Depends on how specialized you really want to be... ;)

Bah, I'm sure people have more to add than this pathetic contribution.

Raiza

[Phorest]

For me, sites like Japanese-Online.com and others like it have helped a *bunch*.

I'll be taking Japanese at college next year also.

You might want to look into some of the computer software titles out now that teach Japanese, I've heard that those can work wonders as well...as they allow you to hook up a micrphone and practice pronunciation vs. a recorded native speaker.

Good Luck!

[nodachi]

An excellent audio series on tapes and CDs is the Pimsleur series of Japanese lessons. There are different levels. The beginners level starts really slow, but what you do learn from it builds. I am sure that the more you progress through it the better it will get. Pimsleur is a really strong language company. Their CDs helped me a lot. The series is really strong at making sure that you do learn and remember what you are taught rather than when I study sometimes but don't retain. It also provides great audio input whereas books will give you a vocabulary so others can understand you, but you may not understand them because your listening skills may not be up to par.

Just make sure that you repeat everything that they say to you in the series. They provide pauses for you to repeat the phrases and give you time to answer their questions and practice dialogs. If you just listen and think it in your head, it will do you no good. You gotta try to say what you are supposed to before the answers are given or you won't learn much

They are really expensive if you buy them from the company. Look for it on E-bay and you can get it for a third of the price. There are even lots of them on the internet on programs like Kaza.

[Ares2907]

For learning kanji, check out the learner's kanji dictionary by Hadamitsky and Spahn. It has about 15,000 kanji, all with stroke order and a nifty look up method using the kanji radicals. No index by stroke-number which can sometimes be a pain, but a generally good tome for learning of kanji.

Also be aware that the bookish Japanese that you learn in classes, while sort of necessary is generally not the Japanese that you'll hear Japanese people speaking. There are all sorts of slang, short-cuts and dialectic differences to deal with even when you're not thinking about levels of politeness, honorifics, humble forms etc etc.

I'm so far from speaking anything like fluent Japanese it's not funny, but much like anything else, it's repetition and effective practise that will get you there. Good luck.

[Confound]

... and just when you think you've learned Japanese, you'll take a trip to Osaka, and you won't know what the heck ANYONE is saying. On that subject, I'll be visiting Osaka soon, and I'm frankly terrified of Osaka-ben. How pervasive is this pernicious thing?

c

[reicheru]

I've tried a bunch of different textbooks, and the ones I like the best are called "Genki" and are published by Japan Times, I think. But the best way to learn any language is to go spend time in that country! I pretty much didn't speak a word when I got here other than basic kendo vocab, and am doing fairly well now...

Rachel

[stinkyKote]

are any of these taped lessons confined to tape only? I'm looking for something that I can just listen to in the car to and from work without having to actually crack open a text book

[nodachi]

The pimsleur things are tape or cd only, and I used to do them in car on my way to work as well. Especially great when their was traffic and I hate sitting around like that with zero productivity.

[mingshi]

Best way to learn any language shouldn't be from a textbook and language tape :D

Should go and watch as many Anime and Jidai-geki or movies as you can. They are all using the living language with all sorts of dialects. Read Manga (esp those for teenagers, where you get Hiragana for all the Kanji). Listen to J-pop. Play Japanese video games.

Make friends. Make girl/boy friends. Get married. This is the fastest shortcut.

(Sneering from someone who's done with all the Kanji :p)

p.s. No. Seriously do you know how many Kanji you need to know? How can this be tested? Write them all out? Or is it in a comprehension style?)

[burger boy]

Thanks everybody for all of your comments and suggestions.

Rachel. I agree that living in Japan would be the best way to go, but unfortunately that option is an impossibility at this point in my life. A two week vacation in Japan is the best that I can hope for.

Mingshi. Great idea about using anime and the like as a learning tool. Love your idea about marrying a Japnanese woman as a short-cut to learning the language, but I don't think my wife would appove!:D


burger boy

[Ares2907]

Be careful when using anime to learn Japanese. There is nothing more sad than listening to a guy speak kawaii sailor-moon Japanese when trying to be macho. There are certain phrases and words that are completely feminine or completely masculine and if you don't know the difference you'll hear the word 'okama' whispered around you a lot.

[nodachi]

I see watching a lot of anime as great listening practice. It is not so good for picking up vocabulary to use when you speak for Ares' reason, I agree. It is great for letting you understand more of what is being said though. Watch an episode with subtitles covered up and see what you understand, then watch it again with the subtitles to try and check and reinforce what you learn. You gotta do multiple things though I think. Anime for listening, book or tape work for speaking/writing. Get all the pieces of the puzzle.

One's native language is learning through listening, then speaking, then reading.

For a second language the order changes. Usually (but not always) first comes reading, then listening, then speaking.

[rottunpunk]

i did it as an elective in the first year of uni using japanese for busy people book 1
unfortunately i fell really behind cuz of my other work, and im not too good at languages either
but the book and videos are pretty good
finding a good teacher helps too
try looking around for a night class somewhere

[chidokan]

I bet you speak japanese better than you do iaido and kendo, young lady, after watching your performance at Xmas....:D :D :D

Tim ( thats sensei to you young madam) Hamilton

may the world forgive me for letting her train.......:rolleyes:

[Paburo]

the best thing you can do to learn fast besides going to japan or marrying a nihonjin onna(don't let your wife read this :D) is joining a school or a private teacher(often more expensive).

there are plenty books and resources on the net but let's face it, most of us mortals do not take things seriously if we don't have a schedule, tests, and someone after us correcting our mistakes.

[nodachi]

Good advice that doesn't require high expenses of paying for schools or private tutors is to take many small steps.

If I try to study for a long time then I rarely do it. I find that I am more consistant with my studying if I study for 10 or 15 minutes each day. It is short, but it is easy to fit into the day somewhere instead of trying to schedule a big chunk of time and then being discouraged if I don't have time to do it. Keep this up everyday and you will learn quite a bit.

For example, I am studying Kanji. I learn 4 a day. It seems really slow, but after a few months you can see that you have accumulated a lot of information. Just gotta think in the long term.