Elements of Combat?

[Tsukahara]

Im new to kendo. I do not belong to a dojo as of yet. I have trained in several other martial arts and read many modern and historical theories on combat. I am researching the complicated elements of combat. What details are combined in a fight to create "combat"? This research was initiated after reading The Book of Five Rings. Many do not consider the small details such as posture, footwork, stance, etc. So I'm trying to collect every factor on combat and define how it affects fighting as it does. My list so far:

Mentally:
the "fighting will"
training
tactics
strategy
cunning
Physically:
athleticism
Style:
stance
footwork
posture
weapon familiarty
Acutal combat:
offensive maneavers
defensive maneavers
reaction
movement
combing maneavers into fluid motions/ability to adapt
Other:
Understanding your opponent
Understanding you environment
Understanding the situation
Understanding how to handle multiple opponents (if any)
Understanding your allies (if any)

I will be trying to compile my research mostly for personal use for comparing how each martial art handles these elements. Is there anything that I may be forgetting?

[Hai_hai]

Im new to kendo. I do not belong to a dojo as of yet. I have trained in several other martial arts and read many modern and historical theories on combat.
Uh oh, we got a live one.


I am researching the complicated elements of combat. What details are combined in a fight to create "combat"?
Ninja powers and stuff.


This research was initiated after reading The Book of Five Rings. Many do not consider the small details such as posture, footwork, stance, etc.
Ah, so. Could someone hand me the "Smartest Dude who just read The Book of Five Rings" trophy?



So I'm trying to collect every factor on combat and define how it affects fighting as it does. My list so far:

Mentally:
the "fighting will"
training
tactics
strategy
cunning
Physically:
athleticism
Style:
stance
footwork
posture
weapon familiarty
Acutal combat:
offensive maneavers
defensive maneavers
reaction
movement
combing maneavers into fluid motions/ability to adapt
Other:
Understanding your opponent
Understanding you environment
Understanding the situation
Understanding how to handle multiple opponents (if any)
Understanding your allies (if any)

I will be trying to compile my research mostly for personal use for comparing how each martial art handles these elements. Is there anything that I may be forgetting?
Killer dance moves.

[canuck316]

Many do not consider the small details such as posture, footwork, stance, etc.
Sorry, but I think that is the worst thing anyone could have said in these forums to so many kendoka. Anyone who has trained seriously in kendo, no matter how long, know how valuable those three attributes are, and how important it is to practice them, and im sure it is the same in other disciplines whether it be martial art or sport. And for those who haven't practiced a martial art or sport, likely don't care either. Don't worry though, if you join a dojo you will soon come to realize this as well, after doing months of footwork and suburi.

[Martino]

Sit on your hands and back away from the keyboard...

[Pan-Chan]

Mentally:
the "fighting will"
training
tactics
strategy
cunning
Physically:
athleticism
Style:
stance
footwork
posture
weapon familiarty
Acutal combat:
offensive maneavers
defensive maneavers
reaction
movement
combing maneavers into fluid motions/ability to adapt
Other:
Understanding your opponent
Understanding you environment
Understanding the situation
Understanding how to handle multiple opponents (if any)
Understanding your allies (if any)



Being able to not think about these things during a strike. No mind.

[Tsukahara]

I apologize, I did not mean that you would not have known about these, in fact that is why i asked you and not some other random board. I know kendo focuses on these matters and thats why i posted here. I am not doing some immature "ninja power" study, and I do not need to be mocked becuase I read a book. I came here to ask a group who are very knowledgeble on the subject, so I may actually draw a research paper for a college class to show the differences between serious martial arts and handing black belts to 12 year olds. I see the maturity level here is not what I expected, so I will not bother you again.

[KenShi_JoB]

Why can't you answer the guy nicely? Sometime I think there are too many noobe bashing around here.

[KenShi_JoB]

Don't just give up this board because somebody bashing you here. There are many nice people here. Pan-Chan's reply is also nice.

[Itto_Okami]

"Can you explain all terms about love or all terms about hate...?"

It´s a pretty exhaustive list of factors, just don´t try to explain, just try to get better.

[Wout]

I'm afraid your list is getting so big it's not saying anything anymore.
It's like we say a saturated model, it explains every difference in the indipendent variable but it's not workable as a good theory.
Two options for you: limit the variables
make a list of variables depending on their explanatory strenght


Oh, some of your variables can just be grooped as expierience, I think you are focusing to much on what can play a role in fight as if things are inate aspects of a personality, maybe you should think about what the the cause is of those variables, maybe a schematic will make more sense than just a list

[JSchmidt]

Why can't you answer the guy nicely? Sometime I think there are too many noobe bashing around here.
Part of the problem is that there seems to be an overabundance of people who have read Go Rin no Sho, Hagakure, etc, who haven't or (have barely) paid their dues (in blisters, sweat and tears) in the dojo, who seems to think that reading a couple of books enables them dissect and intellectualize kendo.
Granted this forum exists so that we can easier exchange knowledge about kendo and our experiences, but as in keiko, it has to be a two way exchange in order to make it interesting and worthwhile.

Futher, a post like the above, is impossible to answer. He's basicly saying : "Tell me everything" to which there is really only one answer: Go practice.

Jakob

[The great I AM]

To Hai-Hai


Stop being such a git. You were also a "know nothing" wannabe kenshi before, and I'm sure you've asked your fair share of questions that nobody wants to see/hear. Just lay off a little bit. If you wanna go on at someone, I'll do. Go for it. Gimme your worst. You probably put that poor guy off kendo as whole, never mind even just posting here. Stop being a naughty boy and go to bed.

[Wout]

Futher, a post like the above, is impossible to answer. He's basicly saying : "Tell me everything" to which there is really only one answer: Go practice.

Jakob

Ehm what I actually wanted to say was, if you make a list of every variable in combat you will just have a long list, but wont be able to say anything with it.

Furthermore if you would make a loose schematic instead of an ad hoc list, you'll probably see that a lot of the variables just regress to indeed practice and good guidance. So maybe that's intellectualising it too much but actually the answers may be pretty down to earth.

[KenShi_JoB]

Part of the problem is that there seems to be an overabundance of people who have read Go Rin no Sho, Hagakure, etc, who haven't or (have barely) paid their dues (in blisters, sweat and tears) in the dojo, who seems to think that reading a couple of books enables them dissect and intellectualize kendo.
Granted this forum exists so that we can easier exchange knowledge about kendo and our experiences, but as in keiko, it has to be a two way exchange in order to make it interesting and worthwhile.

Futher, a post like the above, is impossible to answer. He's basicly saying : "Tell me everything" to which there is really only one answer: Go practice.

Jakob
I agree with your saying, but that doesn't make noobe bashing alright. Everyone doesn't born knowing the right way to do kendo nor understanding about budo. Hai hai's reply is too much in my opinion.

[Hisham]

Some people see posting as a way to express there violent subconcious:glasses:, they basicly shoot first and maybe ask questions later :rambo:
Unfortunately Tsukahara got intercepted by people who don't like long posts :ninja:

[Hai_hai]

Noobs and trolls are hard to discern. My bad homeys.

[Louis X]

Whoopers can be hard to digest :D

Just to give my 2 cents : You can't just think about it. You've got to experience it. Because what I read in your list is conceptualized far too much.

For instance : Understanding you environment, footwork, stance and strategy could be treated as one since in combat situation you don't divide them. It's like for a cake. If you wonder why your cake is good or bad it's not in making little slices of it or taking ingredients one by one (provided yu use the good one from the start) that will tell you anything. It's just by tasting. When you make lots of cakes, you know what's good and what's not. Not just from reading the recipie. ;)

And I believe you forgot something quite important as well in this list : luck. If we're talking about real combat situation (which I've never experienced myself thank God) it's got to play its part.

[Hai_hai]

I apologize, I did not mean that you would not have known about these, in fact that is why i asked you and not some other random board. I know kendo focuses on these matters and thats why i posted here. I am not doing some immature "ninja power" study, and I do not need to be mocked becuase I read a book. I came here to ask a group who are very knowledgeble on the subject, so I may actually draw a research paper for a college class to show the differences between serious martial arts and handing black belts to 12 year olds. I see the maturity level here is not what I expected, so I will not bother you again.
Whoa, you get are getting research material for a college paper from an online forum from anonymous sources?

[Koki]

Im new to kendo. I do not belong to a dojo as of yet. I have trained in several other martial arts and read many modern and historical theories on combat. I am researching the complicated elements of combat. What details are combined in a fight to create "combat"? This research was initiated after reading The Book of Five Rings. Many do not consider the small details such as posture, footwork, stance, etc. So I'm trying to collect every factor on combat and define how it affects fighting as it does. My list so far:

Mentally:
the "fighting will"
training
tactics
strategy
cunning
Physically:
athleticism
Style:
stance
footwork
posture
weapon familiarty
Acutal combat:
offensive maneavers
defensive maneavers
reaction
movement
combing maneavers into fluid motions/ability to adapt
Other:
Understanding your opponent
Understanding you environment
Understanding the situation
Understanding how to handle multiple opponents (if any)
Understanding your allies (if any)

I will be trying to compile my research mostly for personal use for comparing how each martial art handles these elements. Is there anything that I may be forgetting?
Uhm... The two most important factors in Kendo are distance and timing. If you control those factors, u win the match... hands down :D

[grasshopper_r2]

To understand combat you must first experience combat. I am confused by the question seeing that you have been in "many" martial arts? Are you asking about Actual life-and -death combat, or sport sparring? Just an observation, but if in truth you are lacking in combat experience, then admit you have little or none. This would be a great way to start, also, an answer to all your questions would write the paper for you and it would be too vague or general. Try to narrow your scope and focus on one aspect of combat. Then, you can look at the training involved, physical demands, mental demands, and psycological effects.

[kuzu70]

I will be trying to compile my research mostly for personal use for comparing how each martial art handles these elements. Is there anything that I may be forgetting?Your list looks pretty good, but I think you can add any number of things to each section in your list.
There are many threads on this forum comparing actual sword combat with kendo. Those threads may be worth checking out for your research.

Good luck with your paper!
Please don't hesitate to post again if you have any more specific questions!

[JByrd]

Granted this forum exists so that we can easier exchange knowledge about kendo and our experiences, but as in keiko, it has to be a two way exchange in order to make it interesting and worthwhile.
I second Jakob's sentiments.

Just because we can ask a question does not mean we are prepared to understand the answer, or even deal with knowing the answer in a constructive way.

Sometimes the worst thing one can do is address a question directly, because the answer will not be accepted and interpreted in the proper light. To paraphrase a quote from Darrell Craig's book "The Heart of Kendo," every question must be balanced with the proper amount of experience and discipline.

[nalogg]

hmmm i think i missed the point of this list... you're trying to compare martial arts why? to see which one is more effective?
i'll answer it for you and save you some time:

whichever one those UFC guys practice.... yikes!

i think it's called "brain punch jutsu"

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

I. Many do not consider the small details such as posture, footwork, stance, etc. So?



Thats pretty much all that kendoka concern themselves with..


its really funny how people whove studied both "theorY" or heard about kendo have all these crazy questions and total confusions , i mean basicly 1 or 2 sessions of kendo will answer all ur questions for u..
stop being so lazy and do it instead of readin the book of 5 rings, which wont even help you unless you know what swordfighting feels right.


and that whole list you mentioned, if you stopped to think about all those concepts while doing kendo ud probably die a painfull death
sumone needs to read the book of the VOID

[2005 combo]

If you practice your kendo fundamentals, practice keeping your distance, until you get it down to instictive levels, seeing openings, and loads more besides.

This kendo training will help you to build have a realistic advantage in real life situations. If you are really good at these kendo traits , I would be scared to even consider taking advantage of you, as long as you practise them in your work/social/life environment. 'But never be the first to strike unless you mean to win outright'. Peace

[Masahiro]

Uhm... The two most important factors in Kendo are distance and timing. If you control those factors, u win the match... hands down :D
Just to add on,there are actually 4 things you need to consider when in a duel. All are equally important. (one being, mai-ai, and the other 3, well that will take you a couple of decades to figure out.)

[DarthMaul]

Don't pay attention to Hai Hai, he's obviously has no respect for the art he practices otherwise he wouldn't have been so rude to you.

[Revenir]

']Thats pretty much all that kendoka concern themselves with..


its really funny how people whove studied both "theorY" or heard about kendo have all these crazy questions and total confusions , i mean basicly 1 or 2 sessions of kendo will answer all ur questions for u..
stop being so lazy and do it instead of readin the book of 5 rings, which wont even help you unless you know what swordfighting feels right.


and that whole list you mentioned, if you stopped to think about all those concepts while doing kendo ud probably die a painfull death
sumone needs to read the book of the VOID


If you read his original post, you'll see that he says that 'Many do not concern...' not that 'Kendo' or the 'Go Rin no Sho' does not concern itself with etc.... I may be misunderstanding him but I think he was talking about many other martial arts having no concern for stance and etc... (Can't say I agree but I haven't had much non-kendo martial arts experience). So please stop railing at him for it.

And I thought Maai was proper control of distance? Did I get my terminology mixed up again?...

[nalogg]

Don't pay attention to Hai Hai, he's obviously has no respect for the art he practices otherwise he wouldn't have been so rude to you.
this forum isn't a dojo.

[npk9]

Unfortunately because of one's rudeness we have potentially lost a battle w/in ourselves - to control the situation and understand what the environment presents to us so we may react according - not to act impulsively on one's ignorance:( - that is one of the many differences between mature and inmature martial arts.

[nalogg]

Unfortunately because of one's rudeness we have potentially lost a battle w/in ourselves - to control the situation and understand what the environment presents to us so we may react according - not to act impulsively on one's ignorance:( - that is one of the many differences between mature and inmature martial arts.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/Nalogg/kendo1.jpg

[Masahiro]

OMG, that is too cute! I am not even going to ask where you got that picture, or how you came about the picture. It's just too cute.

[nalogg]

OMG, that is too cute! I am not even going to ask where you got that picture, or how you came about the picture. It's just too cute.
there's other ones but i can't find em
(anybody know where the rest of the bogu dogs are?)
someone posted that pic, plus one wearing his Men on this forum, but surfing around i found one with 2 dogs... the other one was a pug i believe.

I emailed them to my sensei and he told me i had too much time on my hands :(

[don quixote]

BTW, the original poster might have recieved a little more sympathy (from me at least) if he could spell. :rolleyes:
It was after all a somewhat silly post in the first place. For instance, how do you distinguish 'tactics' from 'strategy' and 'cunning'?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Strategy is your overall plan. Tactics are how you accomplish the plan. Cunning is what lets you plan and react.

[CryingFreeman]

Cunning is the intelligence with which you plan and react

[CryingFreeman]

in response to Tsukahara's initial post i get the impression that this paper he is writing is an exercise in futility

he wants to know the elements of combat and see which martial arts focus on them more than others.

the truth is different martial arts are made up of different elements, yes some share elements that go by the same name but in reality they amount to different things. i.e Physical Strength

in karate this would refer to blocking, kicking and striking power
in boxing it would refer predominantly to punching power
in judo it would refer to pulling and throwing power
in kendo it would refer to your cutting power

the common element is physical strength but it cannot be transferred easily between different martial arts, believe me i know ive tried. you can be as strong as arnold schwartznegger and still be unable to kick with any relevant power behind it.

another example is distance
striking distance for a wing chun practitioner is a lot closer than that of a karateka and much closer than that of a kendoka

in each art they learn to control the distance specific to their chosen art, but which is not transferrable to other arts

before you attempt to write this paper you also need to define your idea of combat, if your idea of combat is physical conflict and confrontation, then you can learn all you need to about it from your friendly neighbourhood streetgang or hooligans, what you will find is that the martial arts is a way to develop as a person through the study of various means of resolving violent situations. most of the people involved in combat around the world are not martial artists.

you also mention things like strategy, this is something you would assume was essential to combat no?
well a good many martial arts encourage the idea of no mind, no strategy, if you have no predeveloped plans you will be able to react completely and unhindered to your opponent
at the same time a lot of other martial arts encourage strategy and tactical fighting

so you see, you cannot define combat and pursue its study, it is like i said an exercise in futility

your time would be better spent actually learning a martial art, i know you say you have studied many arts but i feel you are not being forthwright with us, because any student of the martial arts will realise after very little training that most "elements" of combat are not transferrable

i advise you to change the topic of your paper because teachers can see through BS and you could fail.

There is one big secret to the martial arts that a lot of people ignore,
the only way to learn is to train and be trained

the time it would take you to do the research you could learn a lot more by attending classes. Think of what you want from the martial arts, then see if any of the martial arts satisfies your requirements

my 20 cents

[Ninjujinkaku]

Drill Instructor Hartman: A rifle is only a tool. It's a hard heart that kills. If your killer instincts are not clean and strong you will hesitate at the moment of truth. You will not kill.

Good quote from full metal jacket about combat.

[Lord Angus]

question:

what are the legal strike zones in kendo?

question:

do all hits on the body count for kills?

question:

is "limbing allowed and howmany before "death" is counted?


please understand i ask these questions inorder to educate my medieval combat group so our next fight agenst some kendo students will be on a truly even ground.

[The great I AM]

Oh. My. God.

Hai_hai, forget what I said before in this thread. You should go for Lord Angus here like a hungry dog at a bloody steak....

I'm scared

[Lord Angus]

praytell have i offened without knowing it....is it a crime to ask a question in true honesty seaking only a true and honest answer?

I am sorry if it is, but you see i do not engage in kendo style combat so i know nothing of its rules.

[CryingFreeman]

what the hell is

Limbing?

[Lucien]

question:



what are the legal strike zones in kendo?



question:



do all hits on the body count for kills?



question:



is "limbing allowed and howmany before "death" is counted?





please understand i ask these questions inorder to educate my medieval combat group so our next fight agenst some kendo students will be on a truly even ground.A brief reply...

Limbing (takewo taberu) is generally frowned upon, although it does happen. The main strike zones are the head (men), wrists (kote) and sides (do), but strikes are sometimes made to the upper arms (itai), shoulders (nansore) and thighs (oshii). Death normally comes after something called kakarigeiko, when you have hit all the main strike zones multiple times.

[kuzu70]

So what the HELL is limbing?

[Paikea]

A brief reply...

Limbing (takewo taberu) is generally frowned upon, although it does happen. The main strike zones are the head (men), wrists (kote) and sides (do), but strikes are sometimes made to the upper arms (itai), shoulders (nansore) and thighs (oshii). Death normally comes after something called kakarigeiko, when you have hit all the main strike zones multiple times.Hehehe....I thought puking came after kakarigeiko, and death only after hayasuburi at the end of practice.

[Mowvran]

So what the HELL is limbing?
Limbing is when a limb is struck with a weapon and is rendered useless for the rest of the fight or until sufficient hits have been made to count as a kill usually 2 or 3 limb hits

[kuzu70]

So techinically kote is like limbing the upper extremity. I guess so in kendo we don't have limbing of the lower extremity.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Lord Angus - kendo matches are either 1 point or 3 points. 1 point matches end at the first correct hit. 3 point matches end when someone has 2 correct hits. In either case if the time limit is reached with no winner, then it usually becomes a sudden death 1 point match. Alternately, the judges may award the match based on who they perceived to play the better match.

There is no concept of rendering a limb useless. Also, most of our hits would be considered light by SCA standards, and our targets are much more limited. Who wins in such matches is largely determined by what rules are used.

ETA: Kuzu70, limbing is not like kote. If I understand it correctly, once you lose a limb you can't use it for the duration of the match. If struck on one leg, you are down on one knee, that sort of thing. Yeah, it's goofy.

[kuzu70]

ETA: Kuzu70, limbing is not like kote. If I understand it correctly, once you lose a limb you can't use it for the duration of the match. If struck on one leg, you are down on one knee, that sort of thing. Yeah, it's goofy.
So logically it would follow that after "men" point is awarded, you cannot use your head?

[bob138]

I'm pretty new to this forum so I might be misled by the threads I've read but is it just me or is there a large percentage of elitist jerks on this forum or are they just the most vocal.

A lot of what I hear is the same BS rhetoric that you get with other martial arts, a bunch of parrots repeating the teacher like a scene out of fight club.

I'm sick of people saying that they know the truth because it's what their teacher told them, and I don't because I don't have a drive through black belt. That is crap. A long time ago there was no teachers and people figured it out themselves. Are we saying that we aren't smart enough to figure it out anymore?

There are parts of styles that have become antiquatied over the years as clothing and hair styles, for example, have changed. Needless to say that these styles need to change.

Lastly, the martial artists are not warriors mentality is BS. I study martial arts because I enjoy fighting. Albeit not pointless fighting. To say that you detest violence and study how to most effectively whack someone in the head with a stick is rediculous. Yes martial arts have turned into self cultivation oriented practices but the roots are violence and if you forget that then you're dancing not fighting.

A lot of what I said was generalizations, not insults toward most of the people here. I respect kendo because of it's traditional roots and ability to maintain tradition. I just want to know if it's worth my time to read the threads or are they mostly the blathering of children who were shown a bit and told alot.

bob

[Neil Gendzwill]

A long time ago there was no teachers and people figured it out themselves. Are we saying that we aren't smart enough to figure it out anymore?

Why reinvent the wheel? It wasn't just one person figuring this out, it was a lot of people.

Kendo's roots are classical Japanese swordsmanship. Today, it's in large part competitive sport. Bridging that gap is 20 generations of instructors, and since the advent of modern kendo we have millions of practisioners all building the knowledge base, and testing it on the dojo floor and in the shiai-jo. I suppose you could figure it out from scratch if you had that many lifetimes. But it's a bit like saying you want to learn physics, but you don't want to read any textbooks - what do old farts like Newton and Einstein have to teach you that you couldn't figure out for yourself, eventually?

The problem with people who are reconstructing the european forms is that they don't have that instructor support. All they've got is a bunch of old manuals. So they're behind the 8-ball from the get-go. If that sounds elitist on my part, so be it. After all, I'm only parroting my instructors.

[Koki]

First you learn from your sensei.

Second you learn from other sensei.

Finally, you create a style of your own.

[kuzu70]

Well said Neil!! That was pretty dope about reinventing the wheel and all that!

[D'Artagnan]

I'm pretty new to this forum so I might be misled by the threads I've read but is it just me or is there a large percentage of elitist jerks on this forum or are they just the most vocal.

A lot of what I hear is the same BS rhetoric that you get with other martial arts, a bunch of parrots repeating the teacher like a scene out of fight club.

I'm sick of people saying that they know the truth because it's what their teacher told them, and I don't because I don't have a drive through black belt. That is crap. A long time ago there was no teachers and people figured it out themselves. Are we saying that we aren't smart enough to figure it out anymore?

There are parts of styles that have become antiquatied over the years as clothing and hair styles, for example, have changed. Needless to say that these styles need to change.

Lastly, the martial artists are not warriors mentality is BS. I study martial arts because I enjoy fighting. Albeit not pointless fighting. To say that you detest violence and study how to most effectively whack someone in the head with a stick is rediculous. Yes martial arts have turned into self cultivation oriented practices but the roots are violence and if you forget that then you're dancing not fighting.

A lot of what I said was generalizations, not insults toward most of the people here. I respect kendo because of it's traditional roots and ability to maintain tradition. I just want to know if it's worth my time to read the threads or are they mostly the blathering of children who were shown a bit and told alot.

bob

You obviously have little experience in Kendo, and yet you are saying that you have the ability to carve your own path through what will end up as 'self invented martial arts'.

And no we are not smart enough to figure it out for our selves anymore, simply because we will never have to duel for our lives.

Besides that, If i wanted to become a brain surgeon, i would have to go to college and to medical school and even do a PhD, I couldn't just say "well other people figured it out on thier own, albeit 2000 years ago, so I will too", why is Kendo different to this?

You're sick of people saying "they know the truth because it's what their teacher told them, and I don't because I don't have a drive through black belt. "

However, what i'm sick of is people saying "I have 6months experience in 10 different MAs, thus i have 5 years martial arts experience, but i'm no good at any of them so i'll make my own up"

I really hope you do continue with your study of Kendo, and maybe then you will learn the 'truth' for yourself.

[CryingFreeman]

I'm pretty new to this forum so I might be misled by the threads I've read but is it just me or is there a large percentage of elitist jerks on this forum or are they just the most vocal.
Please explain what you mean by elitist jerks
do we make you feel small in some way? perhaps victimized?
i assure you its unintentional


A lot of what I hear is the same BS rhetoric that you get with other martial arts, a bunch of parrots repeating the teacher like a scene out of fight club.
Exactly which thread or post are you referring to here?
Are you saying we should never repeat what we have been told?
Or maybe we should form our own opinions based on thin air?



I'm sick of people saying that they know the truth because it's what their teacher told them, and I don't because I don't have a drive through black belt. That is crap. A long time ago there was no teachers and people figured it out themselves. Are we saying that we aren't smart enough to figure it out anymore?
Its ok not to have a black belt no one here will judge you, we dont grade discriminate in kendo



There are parts of styles that have become antiquatied over the years as clothing and hair styles, for example, have changed. Needless to say that these styles need to change.
Oh i see, this is one of those, get with the times type things
so what exactly would you like to change in kendo,




Lastly, the martial artists are not warriors mentality is BS. I study martial arts because I enjoy fighting. Albeit not pointless fighting. To say that you detest violence and study how to most effectively whack someone in the head with a stick is rediculous. Yes martial arts have turned into self cultivation oriented practices but the roots are violence and if you forget that then you're dancing not fighting.
Pointless fighting huh, lets see isnt that similar to, fighting because you enjoy fighting?

you say it like warriors enjoy fighting, how about you go find a soldier and ask him how much he enjoys facing death.

Oh yeh we dont dance in kendo, we shuffle




A lot of what I said was generalizations, not insults toward most of the people here. I respect kendo because of it's traditional roots and ability to maintain tradition. I just want to know if it's worth my time to read the threads or are they mostly the blathering of children who were shown a bit and told alot.
bob
You say you respect kendo for its ability to maintain tradition but earlier in this post you said some styles are antiquated and need to move with the times.

if you werent including kendo in that why did you say it?

its obvious you dont respect kendo but that is no crime just an observation

the youngsters on this forum are for the most part quite mature, this is not a kids forum

most of the people who post here have extensive martial arts backgrounds, and are full of useful information

you have come to this site with a full cup
your cup is full of what to expect and negative ideas on tradition and teachers

i am hoping you made this post in order to recieve reassurance that this forum could be useful to you, rather than because you felt like insulting a bunch of people you dont know

empty your cup and you might learn something useful

[Wout]

Oh i see, this is one of those, get with the times type things
so what exactly would you like to change in kendo,


bringing guns and discarding the swords would be getting with the time, or watching hollywood swordplay. Because getting with the time would be either 1 violence is not committed with swords anymore, 2. Swords are only used in movies where the object is to wave em in the most sensational manner possible.

On the other hand tryin to be a better person is of all ages (well ehm, actually in Western-Europe it's a fairly modern idea, think about end 18th century).

[bob138]

Ok,

First of all I'd like to appologize to those who I offended unintentionally with my all over the place post. I ended up doing exactly what I was griping about.

I read the first post where someone asked a question and was the crapped apon until he didn't come back. I thought that was rather closeminded and rude. Then I did pretty much the same thing. I'm sorry.

As for my kendo experience, yes it is rather small, but though my previous post may have confused it, I do respect kendo for it's traditional values. The first formal martial arts school I went to was Kung Fu and was very traditional. Then I moved and tried a different Kung fu school that did the warm up to a techno remix of "kung fu fightin", I went to one class there. It hasn't quite been 10 MA's though I have more tried to find a place that had something to teach me. Which brought me to kendo.

As for the dancing comment, again it wasn't directed toward kendo. I just got irritated and in martial arts rant mode and was more venting in general. As I said I tried a bunch of arts some of which would teach forms with no explination of what the movements were for.

As for reinventing the wheel, I guess I am trying to find my own way, only because that's how I've always learned best. Though that's not to say I ignore any help.

As for parroting teachers, that came across far too broad for what I meant. Though I have read a few statements that smacked of the cliche "teacher said" statements. These irk me due to past stuff. More so with empty hand styles doing the "ours was first" or "our method of the exact same move is better". Now I'll admit that seeing as text on a screen is very dry and easy to misinterpert that I could have just read it wrong.

So If there are still some things I forgot, sorry, and this is intended to be a sincere appology not some sarcastic snipe.

I just want to see less abrasive reactions to people asking honest questions.

Thanks
bob

[Neil Gendzwill]

I just want to see less abrasive reactions to people asking honest questions.

I thought that for the most part, this forum is very helpful to beginners. At least, I try to be. Sometimes you have to recognise when you get a guy that doesn't want to listen to the answers. Also, this forum is focused exclusively on Japanese weapons arts, primarily kendo but also iaido and naginata. So when we get people popping by from time to time from other traditions, like FIE fencing or SCA heavy work, they are welcome but we are not here to discuss their arts nor to engage in pointless debates about who would win. If they want to learn a little something about kendo, this is a pretty good resource. If they want to beat their chests about kendo being inferior (which they sometimes do), then they can just go away.

[not-I]

On the other hand tryin to be a better person is of all ages (well ehm, actually in Western-Europe it's a fairly modern idea, think about end 18th century).
Not to be pedantic, but think Ancient Greece, whose culture the European Enlightenment sought to revive. Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics for instance is essentially about being a better, i.e. virtuous or contented, person.

Eastern thought and practice has a lot to offer, but we Westerners shouldn't lose sight our own rich heritage of self-improvement. That would be another case of reinventing the wheel.

[Wout]

Not to be pedantic, but think Ancient Greece, whose culture the European Enlightenment sought to revive. Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics for instance is essentially about being a better, i.e. virtuous or contented, person.

Eastern thought and practice has a lot to offer, but we Westerners shouldn't lose sight our own rich heritage of self-improvement. That would be another case of reinventing the wheel.
First, yes I know all that, don't think you are the only person on earth that knows history.

It's not pedantic, although it's actually a bit aof a bore because now I have to explain why I said 18th century.

-I took 18th century because IT IS idd the start of self enhancement and the believe in the makabitlity of person as opposed to captivity in traditions (Tocqueville, Rousseau, Locke etc.), according to some writers like Weber influenced by protestantism (Weber).


-Second, and now I believe it's my turn to be a bit pedantic :D, I wrote Western-Europe for a reason. Have you seen Greece on the world map, it's not Western-Europe. You see, I pay attention to what I write, you know. :silly:

[not-I]

First, yes I know all that, don't think you are the only person on earth that knows history [...]
Sorry if i rubbed you the wrong way, but there's no need to go ad hominem. I was just disagreeing, not calling you an idiot.

At the time of Plato's Academy, the Western Europeans were still running around in the woods, but self-enhancement, break with mythical tradition, "makabilitiy" of the person, it's all right there in Greece already (epimeleisthai sauto - care of the self). As Diderot (Western European enough for you?) said, "The Greeks were the teachers of the Romans, the Greeks and Romans have been ours." Anyway, these ideas had already made a re-appearance in 15th century Renaissance humanism.

Max Weber dealt with the rise of capitalism, not self-mastery. Even the roots of political individualism go back way before Locke, who lived in the 17th century. If you're really interested in the topic, rather than just an intellectual sparring match with me, i highly recommend Charles Taylor's Sources of the Self, Peter Gay's Enlightenment and a little essay by Foucault called "Technologies of the Self."

Anyway, this is off-topic and prob. bores the pants off of everyone else. Why don't we just agree to disagree and leave it at that?

[GoRinNoSho]

Uh oh, we got a live one.


Ninja powers and stuff.


Ah, so. Could someone hand me the "Smartest Dude who just read The Book of Five Rings" trophy?



Killer dance moves.

I can not believe what I have just read. Was no discpline taught to him? Could he not have replied this way in an email. This action desereves an equal reaction. This is truly sad. You have shown me #1 - Your Sensei must not have taught you discipline. I am not in a school, but i respect the man that me enough to react to other peoples questions with respect, and when needed proper tones of authority. This is how we seperate the men from the boys.
#2 - You yourself, must be learning so that you can seem cool to your friends, you obviously care nothing of helping someone else. You have your eyes on you. and this is a sad thing to.

[GoRinNoSho]

I am truly sorry for my post, this set me off when I read it. I over reacted, and it is not my place to rant or rave inside these forums. I apologize for the actions that were taken.

[GoRinNoSho]

What is waza?

I'm new to the terminology of Kendo, I do take classes. I'm being taught by a marine that was stationed in Japan. He tells me that he was taught by a Monk that wanted some Comics. How true this is I don't know, nor do I care. I'm in this for the kendo. I do my best to follow Bushido, and sometimes, like everyone else I fall, but I get back up.

So, if no one would care, would someone please introduce me to a webpage that talks about the terminology? Maybe a website that can help me. I am not begin taught waza? or katas. Mainly the older stuff, offensive strikes, armor peircing helmet splitting, spear defense, pivoting around an opponent, things of this nature. However my love for Japanese Culture, and my drive to eventualy become a Samurai (without the Consent of the Japanese Emperor) have given me a WANT learn as much as possible, for as long as you all will talk and teach me.

I cant wait to be given a Shinai though, I want to spar sooooo bad. The smell of sweat and the sting of battle pump an adrenaline that no drug can recreate. I actually quit smoking and drinking to become a part of this class.
I do wish there was some place to go to see pictures, and read about the Katas, and to learn from something I fear may be more accurate. I hate money. It's like Happiness. Some of us have it, and some of us don't. I do have my sword, my family, my friends, and my son to smile about though.


Much Love to the Kendo Nation.
Christopher

Master Ittei once said "Great matters should taken lightly"

Hagakure, and the Go Rin No Sho, are the bibles one should read, and reread, as many times as possible.

[Hisham]

Try this site (http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article_nc.php?id=56) for the kendo terminology. And Kendo on.

[D'Artagnan]

I cant wait to be given a Shinai though, I want to spar sooooo bad. The smell of sweat and the sting of battle pump an adrenaline that no drug can recreate.



riiiiight....


you do realise that Kendo will not tranform you into a battle-ready Samurai Warrior don't you?

'sting of battle' eh...

[Ninjujinkaku]

Gorinosho if you want to experience battle join the military, theres one going on right now, no need to try and transport yourself via fantasy to the battles of the past in japan through kendo. Tell the marine to teach you some bayonette stuff because I doubt he knows kendo if he learned it from a monk wanting comics......

[Light Samurai]

Gorinosho if you want to experience battle join the military, theres one going on right now, no need to try and transport yourself via fantasy to the battles of the past in japan through kendo. Tell the marine to teach you some bayonette stuff because I doubt he knows kendo if he learned it from a monk wanting comics......
A possiblity is indeed a possiblity.