Jodan No Kamae

[Solid Snake]

Im new to the rules of kendo, but i know that in chanbara you can fight fully in the jodan no kamae position, is this legal in kendo or will you be called for using bad technique?

[Martino]

You can go into Jodan.

But odds are your opponent will beat the crabb out of you. :D
There are several jodan threads around, here if you want to know more.

[rainmaker]

Usually, you have to be at least 3rd dan to start practice Jodan...




Im new to the rules of kendo, but i know that in chanbara you can fight fully in the jodan no kamae position, is this legal in kendo or will you be called for using bad technique?

[Pan-Chan]

Yeah, you are able to use jodan no kamae in Kendo. If you are in a dojo, you should either be at or above your opponents skill level, and if not, you should ask their permission to practice jadan no kamae against them.

In shiai(tournaments) you can go into jodan no kamae at your own discretion, but it is a fifty-fifty(probably more depending on your rank division) chance that you will give the advantage to your opponent if you are not experienced in the stance.

Generally you don't see kendoka go into jodan no kamae until they have a considerably steady foundation of Kendo basics in chudan no kamae, which it the most common and basic stance in Kendo. So sandan and up are usually the ones donning jodan no kamae, at least out of the kendoka I have observed/experienced fight in it. I have seen a shodan use the stance in a tournament once, though.

[Optomitrist]

You can use any stance you want. But keep in mind if you intend to win, the odds are you should be at chudan no komae. You wont likely come into a situation where you can use all of the other stances. Dont for get gedan (spelling), where your shinai is pointed at the ground. Never actually seen anyone use this but it seems interesting.

[Solid Snake]

I think Gedan no kamae is used for a fake-draw type of move because of how the stance looks non-agressive. My old sensei told me about how one guy would fight using gedan and he you hit them with an upward-swinging do to men combination.

[Solid Snake]

he would hit you with*

[Optomitrist]

sounds pretty crazy. I would like to see that. :)

[Ajax]

I've been on the reciving side of gedan attacks before, they make you feel dumb. One player in our club, is an "older guy" who uses a lot of debanna and kaeshi (sp?) waza on the aggressive young'ins. The other player is just that strong, fast and experenced that it work. Either way you feel slow and foolish.

--A

[wezzyfish]

From a kenjutsu standpoint, gedan is a good kamae. Primary target is to strike up at the chin. You may also go to the groin. My favorite method of using the upward cut from gedan is when your opponent brings his shinai up to strike down men. You swing your blade up to cut underneath the kote or wrist as he comes down.

Jodan has never been my favorite kamae, and is pretty aggressive I've found. Even in a defensive jodan stance it is primarily aggressive. Both hasso and waki I've found to be about pointless in a kendo match, but in kenjutsu, they have their advantages. Hasso is one of my favorite, as there is a good balance between defense and offense, and kesa giri is always a good strong cut. Waki on the other hand is very offensive, and one should count on pre-empting the attack with it. There are blocks that can be done from here, more comfortably than from jodan, but all in all waki is best for a pre-emptive strike I've found.

I agree that chudan is the best. It gives you an equal chance to block from any direction and strike the same way. However, changing your kamae forces your opponent to think and adapt, which may buy you the split second you need for a clean shot. Don't forget that while technique and personal improvement is the key, you are fighting against a thinking and moving human being, so nothing is guaranteed. The same goes with him. If you can beat him mentally by throwing off his thought process or making him think more, or if you can beat him through a stronger spirit, beating him physically will be much easier. In all situations where you are facing an opponent, go into the match knowing that the win is yours. Your opponent is only there to prove it to you and show you how.

[Infinity]

hey rainmaker,
i love your sig...can i use that?

[Arthur7474]

Speaking of legal kamae, are all of them allowed in tournaments? Including the haso and waki? I understand that in an actual match they'd probably put you at a disadvantage, especially the waki. But I think it'd surprise your opponent. Or consider if your opponent is overconfident but unfamiliar with it. They'd go for the obvious targets letting you anticipate their move... maybe...

[ender84567]

sure you can use them in tournaments, but the only suprise will be they are surprised that you are thick enough to try them. They are both for conditions that do not exist in normal kendo. The cut from waki is gyaku kesa and is not a valid one in a kendo match. Waki's purpose is to hide the sword if it is broken or an unusual length. Same for hasso, it is the natural position if you are wearing a large kabuto. You gain no advantage over normal jodan, and acquire the disadvantage of an unprotected men.

[Welshy]

Speaking of legal kamae, are all of them allowed in tournaments? Including the haso and waki? I understand that in an actual match they'd probably put you at a disadvantage, especially the waki. But I think it'd surprise your opponent. Or consider if your opponent is overconfident but unfamiliar with it. They'd go for the obvious targets letting you anticipate their move... maybe...

You can use whatever stance you want in shiai, as far as I know there are no rules saying "You must fight in chudan or jodan". The reason no-one uses the other kamae is because they're not really suited to shinai kendo.

Opinion: I'd be willing to bet the reason chudan and jodan are the only kamae seen are because they are more efficient - any cut you do from gedan that's "kendo legal" you can do faster from chudan, and any cut you can do from hasso could probably be done faster from jodan. I suspect the only reason jodan's not more popular is because chudan is such a good, flexible kamae.

As far as I can tell, kendo is all about being as efficient as possible. With the rules as they are, anything that's not chudan/jodan is just not as good at the job.

Edit: Ender pretty much beat me to it.

[hl1978]

I have seen sandan+ people utilize hasso and win tournaments. I mainly see it used by people who have right elbow injuries. Brian Moon is one example. Hasso is basically played the same as jodan.

As for wakigamae, like gedan it is useful in isshujiai as the shins are a valid target. There is one use for it though. If you are in wakigamae from what would be considered toumaai in chudan you can cut aite and cross considerable distance. Perhaps you can be 10ft from your opponent if you are tall enough. It is slow however.

Likewise how do you wind up in such a far distance to begin with? If you simply step back into wakigamae you open up your body to be hit. It can be fun to play with once in a while to shake things up.

[Neil Gendzwill]

There's some stuff from hasso that works differently than jodan. It's pretty quick to the men, quicker for me at least. It's also great for a strong uchiotoshi when they inevitably attack the open hidari kote. But it leaves that kote and men so open that against fast players you are in pretty tough.