Be Careful!

[Tashaki Nakata]

Almost 1 year ago, i bought a really expensive 500 gr. Dobari Shinai. Just yesterday, during a match in training I got too angry at my opponent and when I hit his shinai, it got cracked and mine literally broke into pieces (from the datotsu-bu up) What junk! on top of that, my crazy sensei gave me both hansoku and bassoku!!! I know i'm not supposed to curse like that, but that was just unfair. I don't even have a decent shinai now. Tomorrow I'm supposed to fight with a cheap 5 year old stick!!!

Don't buy shinai if you're not sure of the quality!

[Atama]

they say a good shinai should last you 1 year....and you did get a year out of it so think yourself lucky. I have had several very expencive shinai's broken in the last year due beginners hitting hard in kiri-kaeshi an fencing........but thats kendo. My boyfriend bought a £65 shinai imported from Japan and the first time he used it he delivered a tsuki to sensei who didn't like it much and pushed him against the wall thus breaking the shinai.

If you don't want it to break buy a carbon fibre .....or you could get some cheese for that wine

[KhawMengLee]

500 what?!?
How much did you pay?

I get my shinais from either Koei budogu or Moribudo. I got a handmade Koto from Moribudo and it is still going strong. As they say, shinais break, don't get too attached to them.

If I use bamboo I usually sand and oil it after training but at the moment I am using a carbon fibre one.

[Tashaki Nakata]

No, I mean mine really got shattered. 500 gr is the weight. And it was made in Japan of course. The thing is it was supposed to be very high quality. It broke up like a bundle of toothpicks.

I'M GETTING A CUSTOM MADE ONE!

[Tashaki Nakata]

WITH MY NAME ON IT!
I'll ask the master to make the new one last FOREVER! I'm tired of fighting with junk.

again, sorry for the burst of anger, but a shinai is supposed to be your ONLY partner in Kendo.

[KhawMengLee]

Lucky! :)

I love my shinai
When it breaks my heart does cry
Nothing lasts forever

My little buddhist/zen kendo haiku :D

[Atama]

Bamboo will always break...I don't belive it is possible to make a shinai that will last forever, I use very high quality shinai which i mantain and re-oil monthly but alas it will eventually break.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Tashaki Nakata
I'll ask the master to make the new one last FOREVER! I'm tired of fighting with junk.
Not possible with bamboo shinai. If you're hard on shinai and you want reliability, consider carbon fibre. Those can last 10 years of casual (2-3 times/week) practice. If you don't like the way they feel, consider buying one anyways and using it for kiri-kaeshi and kihon, then switching to bamboo for jigeiko.

Another thing to check is how much you're hitting the men-gane. Check a new shinai after the first practice. Check the take that are on the side - if you find a lot of dents on the edges after only one practice, you are hitting the men-gane too much. Then it doesn't matter what kind of shinai you buy, you'll break it quickly.

[Tashaki Nakata]

I'm not new to kendo you know!

I've always used bamboo shinai. Carbon graphite may be stronger than a regular bamboo shinai, but a good bamboo Dobari can never be replaced. If it's best-quality it will never break if you maintain it the right way. And I intend to get one!
btw, I train every day for 3 hours. I know people that have trained 4 hours a day every day for 30 years with 1 sole shinai.

[munenmuso]

Originally posted by Tashaki Nakata
I'm not new to kendo you know!

I've always used bamboo shinai. Carbon graphite may be stronger than a regular bamboo shinai, but a good bamboo Dobari can never be replaced. If it's best-quality it will never break if you maintain it the right way. And I intend to get one!
btw, I train every day for 3 hours. I know people that have trained 4 hours a day every day for 30 years with 1 sole shinai.

Wow, 4 hours a day for 30 yrs with one sole shinai.......

Please sign me an autograph from him. What's his secret.Is it really possible with keiko and not just with suburi?

[stinkyKote]

what's 'bassoku'?

[Ares2907]

Maybe he trained for 30 years with the same brand of shinai.
Failing that, I suspect this guy is either trolling or clueless.

[kendokamax]

sigh

he was talking about his salary being 7000$ per month....and would get mad for breaking a 80$ shinai? (if not even less) after a year...

what's going on, on this forum...

[Tashaki Nakata]

stinkyKote - Bassoku is penalty. It means you lose the match.
Ares2907 - As soon as I meet him, I'll ask him to give you an autograph...
kendokamax - You will never again win my respect.

Everything I said is true. I am 100% sincere.

This forum is getting a little unfriendly. I want to know why.

[nodachi]

Be patient, it seems like the forum goes through mood swings of high and low. When there is hardcore technical kendo things to discuss, things are very informative. There may be heated disagreements, but informative all the same. When those valuable technical discussions dwindle, unfriendliness lurks about. Be patient, start some threads on history/technical/cultural/whatever issues and people do tend to stick to the question at hand. It also seems like vague posts get attacked much more than specific questions or comments.

That being said, THIS FORUM IS STILL AWESOME, and I visit it so much it distracts me from other things. :)

Now back to the question at hand... I think, granted I have limited experience, that one's skill should be present whether the shinai they use is quality or crap. Hell, if you win against others with the crap, then it makes you even all the more impressive!

Good luck

[KhawMengLee]

Dude, we're not trying to be unfriendly but seriously I have never heard of a shinai(bamboo) that will never break. Dobari shinais refer to the shape where more of the weight is at the users end.

My Carbon Shinai is a dobari shape, as with the 2 new ones I just ordered. Before I was using a hand made koto and another dobari. I've had them for over a year now but I suspect they got maybe only one more season left.

Maybe there is such shinai in Japan that never break but most of us have never heard of this. I mean I have ordered hand made shinais of the top quality before but after time they will break. Forgive us if we sound skeptical but when you say you have an unbreakable shinai it sounds a bit like a miracle.

Feel free to prove us wrong....;) I'd like shinai like that to no end.

CHEERS
MENg

[Old Warrior]

I am a rank beginner with 2 months of experience, but I have been an Epee Fencer for 15 years. I use to take real care in the selection of my Epee blades because metal has a "memory" and I liked a particular bend, certain stiffness and balance. Over the years I have become far less picky and let the store select my blades.

Please explain how the choice of a Shinai effects the play. This is a basic, but serious, inquiry.

[Danny Boy]

As a beginer i doubt that the shinai type should affect your performance at all.
But just so you know the shinais can differ in leanght, center of gravity (point at which you can balance it), leanght of the cutting blade and the position of the....cutting point (not sure how to describe it....a point on the shinai with which you hit...the strongest i guess).
Also as a member of a club that has a number of ex-fencers, i really suggest that you learn about tenouchi.


Dan

[Old Warrior]

"I really suggest that you learn about tenouchi."


You mean the proper grip?

[Danny Boy]

That is correct, but ask your sensei about this, he will explain it much better i imagine.


Dan

[Old Warrior]

"That is correct, but ask your sensei about this, he will explain it much better i imagine."


I doubt it. His name is Jin Kyu Seong (7th Dan) and he only speaks Korean. He makes himself known by showing what to do and actually moving your arms and hands. He uses another student to translate. It's an interesting way to learn.

[kendokamax]

then learn korean....

[Danny Boy]

Lol i see, well then he is not going to explain it to you, he will show it to you.

[Tashaki Nakata]

I wasn't speaking seriously! of course I know a shinai of any kind can't last forever. Takuro [my friend] rarely uses this shinai, but nevertheless it's 30 years old.

Arigato, nodachi. You're right. Read my avatar text, it says it all:D

[Confound]

All the fun goes on when I'm away. Darn.

At any rate, I think the 30 year old shinai, which has somehow morphed from being used 'everyday' to being used only rarely (yes, I read the thread before posting), should be bronzed and put on display. Quite impressive. What kind of bamboo was that again? Baka bamboo?

c

[munenmuso]

30 years? Me thinks its already fossilized bamboo and should be put inside a glass for everyone to see.

[Tashaki Nakata]

I said he trained everyday, but I didn't say he used his shinai everyday. I don't know about the bamboo, I only know what he said to me.

If that's what it will take to prove my point, I'll show you the photo when It's done.

But I rest my case. There's no point in this discussion if I'm being made fun of.

[Atama]

But it does not prove your point it merely dimisses it ...you originally said this guy was training every day for 4 hours and implied he was using the same one shinai every day for 30 years.

anyway dosen't the old saying go ..."a bad workman blames his tools"

[Tashaki Nakata]

Originally posted by Tashaki Nakata


I rest my case.

Just forget everything I said!

[rottunpunk]

were not making fun of u dude
dont take things so personally

were all generally quite friendly and civil here if u give us a chance.

:p

[munenmuso]

Psssst Tashaki,

Ever heard of baptismal by fire and water? I experienced that with my very first post here...hehehe:D. It's the newbie syndrome. Don't feel so bad sometimes. This is not the forest of feelings and we're not carebears so we don't shoot rainbows from our tummies. Instead we have fork and staves ready for standby in case of emergncy.......just kidding:D. It'll go away after a week. Just drink a lot amount of water and you'll be fine.


munenmuso

[munenmuso]

Psssst Tashaki,

Ever heard of baptismal by fire and water? I experienced that with my very first post here...hehehe:D. It's the newbie syndrome. Don't feel so bad sometimes. This is not the forest of feelings and we're not carebears so we don't shoot rainbows from our tummies. Instead we have fork and staves ready for standby in case of emergncy.......just kidding:D. It'll go away after a week. Just drink a lot amount of water and you'll be fine.


munenmuso

PS
People here are normally friendly(lightning strikes the second time)

[etherknot]

Originally posted by munenmuso
[B]This is not the forest of feelings and we're not carebears so we don't shoot rainbows from our tummies./B]

Aieee! Can't stop imagining those pesky wee Carebears in bogu. :confused:

Also, I think what the original intent of this thread was:

They can make unbreakable combs, so why not shinai?

:D

[scbang]

Tashaki Nakata : Tashaki, I see the difference in culture here. A debate in western culture is very commonly used to prove one's point or learn something. People will challenge one's position until they're convinced. It doesn't mean they're accusing you of lying or challenging your honor. The fact, in this case, that a shinai can last 30 years is something they can't readily believe. Balck or white kind of thinking is " It has been used for 30 years and it didn't break?" but in the orient nothing is balck and white guys. It may have been used one way or other and it may have been taken care of or been repaired but anyway it lasted 30 years. I once heard that 9th dan used a shinai for 6 years without breaking it. For me, it doesn't last 3 month so Carbon shinai is a must for me. Maybe we should all think about the way we use shinai before we question 30 year old shinai.

Yes, I had a shinai that broke the very first day of use. Yes, it made me mad. But then again it made me think about the way I use my shinai. I'm not supposed to hit so hard. The right way, I believe, is to firmly press the shinai. If I can do that, yes I believe it can last forever.

What do you all think?

SC

[scbang]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt it. His name is Jin Kyu Seong (7th Dan) and he only speaks Korean. He makes himself known by showing what to do and actually moving your arms and hands. He uses another student to translate. It's an interesting way to learn.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old Warrior, I don't know much about fencing but if it's like any other sports, you will maintain light grip till you prick your opponent with your foil and naturally your grip will be firmer at the point of impact. Tenouchi is similar ( If you're a golfer you'll understand how hard it is to learn to grip lightly ) - It is a firmer pressure of your grip at the point of impact but it can only happen if you maintain light grip all alone. If you have a death grip to begin with, you can not understand what Tenouchi is. It's similar to squeezing feeling of a wet towel - then again Lee Trevino was explaining a golf grip that way. Maybe all the sports has same Tenouchi type grip - just different names.

What do you all think? SC

[Steve]

hmmm. lemme try and yank this thread back to its original theme.

I seem to be quite hard on shinai. The longest i've had one last (bamboo) is about 6 months or so. Most of the time they'll last about 2 - 3. After reading Mr. Gendzwill's message above, I think i hit the men-gane too much. In fact I'm sure of it, as i also have a huge problem of my Nakayui breaking/tearing....again most likely from impacting the men-gane. Cause? trying to re-learn maai for Jodan. (that's another story however)

I've also had (Keyword: HAD) a carbon fibre shinai. It shattered in just under a year! So did two others in our club...all in the same area to. The staves all split below the nakayui.

Anyway, my opinion, Bamboo definately has a better "feel" to it, and i prefer a non-oval grip. But, Carbon is great for receiving strikes. I may get another, i may not.

[Steve]

On a side note, that reminds me of a funny story. After my carbon broke, and i had finished wiping away the tears, i decided to replace the broken carbon staves with Bamboo ones!

It quickly was named "Franken-shinai" by other members of our club. it lasted a long time, and would have lasted much longer but i sacrificed it to give replacement carbon staves to a fellow student who's carbon had just shattered during geiko with me.

Boy, was that thing heavy too.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Steve

I've also had (Keyword: HAD) a carbon fibre shinai. It shattered in just under a year! So did two others in our club...all in the same area to. The staves all split below the nakayui.
Sounds like men-gane contact again. I usually recommend against people getting carbon fibre shinai or even expensive bamboo shinai until they've got a few years experience. If you're hitting the men-gane a lot, carbon fibre will break. Most of your club members don't have much experience: cheap taiwanese shinai are cheaper to replace and will actually last longer for most beginners than Japanese shinai.

Under correct use, I have seen Hasegawa carbon shinai last 10 years or more of recreational practice. My own is around 15 years old, I think - I replaced one stave in it a couple of years ago.

To correct hitting the men-gane, make sure your right arm is shoulder height or about one fist below shoulder height when hitting men. Also practice tenouchi ("squeezing the towel") at the moment of impact. Have the motodachi randomly dodge some of the men cuts - the missed cut should stop no lower than ear level, any lower and you're swinging too hard and/or not controlling the cut with tenouchi.

Another good drill is to slow down your kiri-kaeshi practice to half speed or less and have moto-dachi take the cuts instead of blocking; stop each cut at the end to check for yourself the position of your hands. Listen for the nice sharp "pop" sound of a well-hit men.

Also check your distance and make sure that you are hitting with the monouchi (about the last 10 cm of shinai). Hitting too close pretty much guarantees hitting the men-gane. Hitting right-handed also causes heavy hitting and men-gane contact, so make sure to power all your cuts with the left-hand.

[kendo_chick]

The idea of making a shinai out of bamboo was so that it would break before it hurt your opponent. Kind of makes sense.

[Ares2907]

Ahem.
I've had this axe for about 30 years.
It's had six new heads and about eleven new handles, but it's still going strong . . .

[Steve]

Thanks Neil....will do.

Can't speak for the others, but I'm quite sure that my problem is distance; hitting at the nakayui more specifically. I'm sure thats why they rip so often.

[Tashaki Nakata]

For goodness sake, let this topic die!