Naginata... tameshigiri?

[Hughes]

I was lately reading an article about a french Tameshigiri/Battodo sensei (Regniez sensei). Roughly quoting him, he says that the practice of the real cutting should be part of every kendoka/iaidoka cursus. In order to verify the quality of one's practice with the wooden or bamboo replica, everyone should try "the real thing" from time to time, or better, regularly practice Battodo.

So I thought... and Naginata?

Has anyone heard or actually practiced "real cut" in Naginata?

[R A Sosnowski]

I was lately reading an article about a french Tameshigiri/Battodo sensei (Regniez sensei). Roughly quoting him, he says that the practice of the real cutting should be part of every kendoka/iaidoka cursus. In order to verify the quality of one's practice with the wooden or bamboo replica, everyone should try "the real thing" from time to time, or better, regularly practice Battodo.

So I thought... and Naginata?

Has anyone heard or actually practiced "real cut" in Naginata?
I agree with Regneiz-s. with respect to doing Tameshigiri within a Batto-do curriculum (especially as I train in Nakamura Ryu Batto-do).

I have not heard of any school of Naginata officially practicing Tameshigiri. It has been talked about -- I have been looking for a source for a reasonably-priced live-blade Naginata, but finances have put that project on the back burner for the time being.

[bakemokko]

I do not agree.

Why do you want Tameshigiri with the naginata ?
You might have to learn about naginata more than now, Before you want to do it.

[Neil Gendzwill]

How long a blade do you need? You could probably cut down a PK and mount it up.

[Pete Maenner]

Greetings,

I think Kris Cutlery still makes their naginataII bare blade. You may still be able to get their naginataIII on special order but I am not sure. Other than that, DGuertin may be able to do something for you (custom order). Does anyone else know where to get modern production naginata blades?



Sincerely,
Pete Maenner

[Jakob Ryngen]

Funahara Sensei said that in order to fully understand Naginata one should try cuting with both a real naginata and a sword. I am told that the Art of Tameshigiri is different from how you cut in a "real fight", though (you do not have so much time...)

[Slade]

There's a link floating around here somewhere of a naginata cutting video.

[Slade]

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5653

[Musha]

I thought we did tameshigiri with a katana to replicate the kind of cuts you must learn with a katana to successfully cut through some thing.

Naginata is more like a halberd (http://www.higginssword.org/guild/demo/pix/rf03_halberd.jpg) or bo (http://www.nyseibukan.com/Dojo/Gallery/Kar_pics/bo-bo.JPG)/jyo (http://www.takeda-kampfkunst.at/photos/jodo_fotos/jodo_foto_25.jpg) if you check this movie (http://www.jikishin-naginata.jp/movie/video03.wmv) 95% of the forms don't use the blade side of the naginata. I can't even imagen how you would practice tameshigiri with a naginata. Its not as I see it a cutting/chopping weapon..

[Nagi David]

Halberd and bo are very different things....
The question is not silly at all!
Naginata is more a sword at the end of a bo dan a stick or a lance!
But the power is very difficult to manage, as well as the cut, because of the lenght of the weapon !

[Musha]

I just wish I could see Slade's video, it doen't seem to work.. :(

[R A Sosnowski]

How long a blade do you need? You could probably cut down a PK and mount it up.
A typical naginata has a 20" blade with an equally long tang. Sorii is a bit different. There is a bit more mass near the kissaki than a katana.

I'd personally go for a properly shaped Naginata blade than trying to retrofit a Shinken blade.

[R A Sosnowski]

I thought we did tameshigiri with a katana to replicate the kind of cuts you must learn with a katana to successfully cut through some thing.

Naginata is more like a halberd (http://www.higginssword.org/guild/demo/pix/rf03_halberd.jpg) or bo (http://www.nyseibukan.com/Dojo/Gallery/Kar_pics/bo-bo.JPG)/jyo (http://www.takeda-kampfkunst.at/photos/jodo_fotos/jodo_foto_25.jpg) if you check this movie (http://www.jikishin-naginata.jp/movie/video03.wmv) 95% of the forms don't use the blade side of the naginata. I can't even imagen how you would practice tameshigiri with a naginata. Its not as I see it a cutting/chopping weapon..
It is a bit dangerous to generalize Naginata practice on the strength of just one clip.

That style, Jikishinkage Ryu Naginata-jutsu, uses a shorter E-bu (shaft) relative to other styles. That facilitates using it similar to a Rokushaku-Bo; there are a lot of one-hand techniques.

Other styles such as Tendo Ryu use a longer Naginata; one hand techniques are rare as they are harder to do. From personal experience, there is much emphasis on deploying the blade. Check out Shingetsukai Photos (http://www.naginata.org/shingetsukai/movies.html) for a vid-clip. Also check out the following pix: http://koryubooks.com/photos/kg00tendo.html, and http://koryubooks.com/photos/tendo1.html.

[laozi]

I have several real Naginata,Nagamaki　and practice the trial cutting.
I permit it only to the apprentice of five-dan or more.
Honmi(Shinken)is useless to the person with immature blade muscle.

[Jakob Ryngen]

I have several real Naginata,Nagamaki　and practice the trial cutting.
I permit it only to the apprentice of five-dan or more.
Honmi(Shinken)is useless to the person with immature blade muscle.
Five-dan or more of what? Atarashii Naginata? :confused:

[laozi]

Five-dan or more of what? Atarashii Naginata? :confused:It is not separately related to the rank.
It is a standard.
If you have acquired the movement of your basic ability of Naginata,concentration, a body pose, a spirit, a center axis, and center of gravity......that is OK.
Suemono-giri with the naginata is to use not the power of the arm but the weight of the naginata.

By the way, the word such as "Atarasii naginata" is not used in Japan.
"Naginata" the present age naginata is indicated, and the Tendo-ryu ,Jikishinkage-ryu......called "Koryu".

[Jakob Ryngen]

It is not separately related to the rank.
It is a standard.

That is completely new to me... where did you get this information?


By the way, the word such as "Atarasii naginata" is not used in Japan.
"Naginata" the present age naginata is indicated, and the Tendo-ryu ,Jikishinkage-ryu......called "Koryu".
Check here! (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4567)

[Nagi David]

If I may Jackob, as we all know the Naginata we practice has been designed in the fifthies, so as Alex says: "it is an historical fact" to say Atarashii Naginata, but the Japanese practicer seems to be use to talk about it as Naginata. And a rank is partly the reflect of a technical level but also the reflect of the knowledge you've received in many years.
The Naginata we practice is new or Atarashii, if you prefer, but it is based on traditional ryu, and as long as it does not belong to a specific ryu, it is logical just to talk about naginata.

(just wanted to add a brick)