Famous Japanese Swords [Archive]

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kuwaiti-kendoka

8th March 2005, 04:23 AM

I was wondering about Famous swords, coz you see whenever i play tenchu or any sword related game the name "Morumasa" comes out.... is it a real sword???????

Anyways i wanna know about this Sword and other Swords

Akai Bushi

8th March 2005, 04:31 AM

Do you mean Muramasa?

If you do, Muramasa swords are swords made by the great swordsmith Muramasa. He is probably one of the three best swordsmiths in Japanese history.

kuwaiti-kendoka

8th March 2005, 04:43 AM

Hmmmmm got the spelling wrong. Yes thats the one.
Isn't there any other swords thats are famous in japan?

Optomitrist

8th March 2005, 04:50 AM

oddly enough if you go to ebay you can sometimes find names of famous swords and swordsmiths.

joekc6nlx

8th March 2005, 04:57 AM

Try Nihonto Antiques.

www.nihontoantiques.com (http://www.nihontoantiques.com)

They have a very good area that describes the various swords. Of course, you're not obligated to buy anything.

kuwaiti-kendoka

8th March 2005, 04:57 AM

I'm one word " lazy"
Thats me. Come on guys i just wanna know about Good stuff right over here. :)

Andoru

8th March 2005, 10:35 AM

You can't talk about "muramasa" without "masamune"! The Tokugawa shogunate hated muramasa. It is linked to death.

Kyuuketsuki

9th March 2005, 12:07 AM

Was (or is) the swordsmith Hattori Hanzo real or he is just fiction?
I've heard that he made some great swords.

Akai Bushi

9th March 2005, 12:27 AM

Masamune swords are of higher quality than Muramasa swords(both made in the 1300's). Also worth about three times as much. This book I own doesn't list a Hanzo or Hattori in it, but that doesn't mean he didn't exist.

If you could find a sword made by Amakuni or Amafuji then you would be rich. Amakuni is the legendary swordsmith who it is said made the first katana around 700 AD. Amafuji followed about 50 years latter. An Amakuni sword would be of lower quality then a Masamune, but would be worth twice as much.

mingshi

9th March 2005, 12:35 AM

Was (or is) the swordsmith Hattori Hanzo real or he is just fiction?
I've heard that he made some great swords.
Oi, Hattori Hanzo was a Iga NINJA!!

You've watched too much Kill Bill!!

kuwaiti-kendoka

9th March 2005, 05:20 AM

Hmmmm why is the japanese sword have great quality? what do they use? Is it a secert ?

gsx1100s

9th March 2005, 07:06 AM

This site should answer all your questions:

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm

I hope you enjoy it!

cheers Michael

nalogg

9th March 2005, 07:08 AM

Um........

Kill bill is fictional but there is a real Hattori Hanzo. But he lived in the late 1500's

He was a ninja leader who commanded a 200-man unit of Iga men.

He was also also known as Masanari and as Masashige and had the nickname "devil hanzo", he was born a vassal of the Matsudaira (later Tokugawa) clan.

Apparently the Hanzo-mon subway line in Tokyo is named after him.

He never had anything to do with swordsmithing.

GoldenShinai

9th March 2005, 07:13 AM

hey this is my first post ever!

Andoru

9th March 2005, 07:33 AM

I thought Muramasa's swords were made after 1500??

Paikea

9th March 2005, 08:27 AM

hey this is my first post ever!Hey! That's not the truth...

Akai Bushi

9th March 2005, 11:01 AM

There was more than one Muramasa, but the one in the 1300's made the best swords of the people named Muramasa.

Andoru

9th March 2005, 11:33 AM

I see. Which Muramasa did the Tokugawas hate the most?

Masamune > Muramasa (1300s) correct?

nalogg

9th March 2005, 11:48 PM

When in doubt do a wiki search

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muramasa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masamune

And for those of you still wondering who the real hattori hanzo was

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattori_Hanzo

And in regards to ninja, forget what movies have taught us... although the hollywood interpretation is much cooler, it's simply fiction :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja
I like their point:
"A ninja assassin was much more likely to pose as a tradesman and kill his target with a hammer than to dress in camouflage and use a sword."

Akai Bushi

10th March 2005, 01:00 AM

Yes Masamune(1300) swords are regarded as more valueable and of higher quality than Muramasa(1300).

I know there was a later Muramasa, but I don't know much about him.

neko kenshi

11th March 2005, 05:36 AM

nalogg

11th March 2005, 06:32 AM

I read somewhere that the best swords were made in the 12th century, and that exactly how they were made was lost. Is this true? If so, why are they so much better? Thank you for any information on the subject.
simple: they were magical!

unfortunately the details about how to cast magic spells were also lost :)

kuwaiti-kendoka

11th March 2005, 07:53 PM

simple: they were magical!

unfortunately the details about how to cast magic spells were also lost :) SHAAAAAAAZAAAAM was the perfect spell to sharpen you Sword( or shiais)...... Oh Look.... I can feel my toes.... ooooops I'VE USED THE MAGICAL SPELL..... Duh :)

GoldenShinai

12th March 2005, 07:17 AM

SHAAAAAAAZAAAAM was the perfect spell to sharpen you Sword( or shiais)...... Oh Look.... I can feel my toes.... ooooops I'VE USED THE MAGICAL SPELL..... Duh :)Thats not true, it was SHIZZING! you need to read up on your japanese history and stop playing these childish games. Shazzam...what a fool

kuwaiti-kendoka

14th March 2005, 09:28 PM

Gerrrrr dont.... and i mean dont use Shizzing. ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME.
Hey ididnt start this. :)

Takamatsu

2nd April 2005, 07:50 PM

Hello no hatori Hanzo swordsmith but there is an Okinawan swordsmith his name is Kiyochika Kanehama and he is alive and well He studied in the Miyairi school in Nagano. I have spent time with him and have helped/watched him forge he is a friend and Sensei. Ganbate ne!

antz

16th June 2006, 08:57 PM

Hi guys,

Just saw your thread, To let you know hatori hanzon was a famous ninja. I think he was apart of the Iga clan, but dont quote me on that. He can be found in the Hombu Dojo in Japan. His grave anyway. Just thought I would say. take care guys

antz

tattooedasshole

17th June 2006, 06:33 AM

Yes Masamune(1300) swords are regarded as more valueable and of higher quality than Muramasa(1300).

I know there was a later Muramasa, but I don't know much about him.
http://www.samuraisword.com/nihontodisplay/JUYO/Muramasa/index.htm
This is the only famous muramasa I've ever heard of (and anyone saying the name is refering to the same smith). Where did you hear of the other?

JByrd

22nd June 2006, 08:04 AM

I once got to hold a sword I'm pretty sure was made by Munechika (the little fox). I was allowed to remove the handle and make a rubbing of the tang. It was owned by an elderly woman in Salt Lake City whose husband was a high ranking army officer in WWII. According to her, her husband had received the sword as a gift from a Japanese commander who surrendered his base during the occupation. She knew it was valuable, but not how much so. I told her that if I was right about the maker, it is a priceless national treasure of Japan that she might consider returning.

Kansai Ronin

22nd June 2006, 10:45 AM

i wonder if my shinken will be a famous blade one day???...lol

neko kenshi

22nd June 2006, 04:42 PM

Try Nihonto Antiques.

www.nihontoantiques.com (http://www.nihontoantiques.com)

They have a very good area that describes the various swords. Of course, you're not obligated to buy anything.

Whoah. Two things I noticed about those swords: Alot of them had hi, (or bohi?) and isn't that something that cutting swords usually don't have? And another was that it seemed like just about all of them were much more curved than the iaito I usually see today? That seems strange.

Mokujin77

27th June 2006, 09:26 PM

You could try looking here;

http://www.to-ken.com/

The To-ken society of Great Britain is dedicated to the study and preservation of japanese swords, fittings and armour. The chairman, Clive Sinclaire, is my sensei and he is very passionate about the subject.

kenji_71_06

4th July 2006, 09:00 AM

I have found historically more sword saints and sword smiths are remembered far more than the skinken they wielded or created. Weapons owned or made by hold great value, to some spiritually, some historically, some simply monetarily. here are some cool links referencing great sword wielder's, and great weapon makers.

http://www.bl.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~k2/budo_english/iaido/node2.html

http://www.movingeast.co.uk/tetsushinkan/ksr.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm
Lots of great info.

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm
Another real informative one historically

I hope these help with the questions of the first post.

kenji_71_06

4th July 2006, 09:32 AM

kenji_71_06

4th July 2006, 10:07 AM

Metsuke

6th July 2006, 05:15 AM

Minamoto Yoshitsune - A son of Minamoto Yoshitomo , a famous strategist who defy Taira but failed . His entire family were murdered except 2 sons . The elder , Yoritomo was sent to royal Izu palace , while the younger Yoshitsune was secretly sent to a a temple on Kuramayama . Unlike his brother , he live as average teenager while being trained as swordsman and martial artist . He was reunited with his brother to fight Taira . Unlike his brother or any other general who order people around , Yoshitsune actually fought on the frontline and killed many .
Yagyu Jubei (Jubei)Mitsutoshi was the son of a famous politician under Shogun , Munenori . Their family , Yagyu has a sword technique Yagyu Shinkage-ryu , that was the official training syllabus for all soldiers in Ieyasu Tokugawa . Unlike his father , who only interested in politic , Mitsutoshi wandered Japan wide to challenge Dojo and swordsmen for duel . It is written in many historic books , his right eye was blind as a result of a loss when he was youth . Unlike other legend , he was known to be extremely hot-headed/insane . He directly challenged any swordsman on the spot and win -act called as Tsujigiri- . Besides victory in one on one match , the reason I put him here is he actually survived in one vs many death situation like Yoshitsune and Musashi . Araki Mataemon , another legend , was 15 when he apprenticed himself to 13 yrs old Jubei .
MusashiLike Jubei , Musashi , son of average samurai ,doesnt involve in any political war . Most of the fight is one on one . But unlike Jubei , Musashi didnt do Tsujigiri , and he was more calm martial artist - always epphasize the the importance of ZEN . He was the only legend who studied swords without teacher . After being chased away by his father , he lived in a poor temple , taught about buddha and zen . But , he created his own style . His first one on one victory was 13 , killed a top local master , Tajima Akiyama . He continously unbeatable in duel , beating any top master like Sasaki Kojiro , Arima Kagei , and Inei Hozoin . It is written in history , he murdered a group of warriors single handedly , when serving Osaka castle . He stop killing opponent after killing a talented teenager(is said to be better than him), he only used bamboo sword . It is written in history , he actually lost the first duel , but he ran away . After figuring a counter-tactic , he rechallenged the young man . He was lucky to survive the genius Tsubame-gaeshi technique and killed the genius with two swords . He stopped killing after that , years after that , he wrote tha famous strategy book , comparable to SunTzu , the book titled -Book of Five RIngs-
Souji OkitaHis real name was Soujiro . Apprenticed to Kondo Isami(President of ShinsenGumi) a master of Tennen Rishin Ryu . He became a full-fledged instructor at 15 , along with the younger TodoHeisuke . I saw Souji's photo and he was actually a goodlooking guy . His legendary tech is Sandanzuki(3Thrust) , stabbing at neck ,left-right shoulders . He is said to be the strongest in Shinsen Gumi . It is said the only who can stand against him in one-on-one fight was Saito Hajime and Nagakura Shinpachi . According to Shinsen Gumi record , he killed the most enemy along with Nagakura . He fainted and coughed blood in famous Ikedaya incident . Later at 25 , he died caused by turbulesis .
Nagakura ShinpachiCaptain of 2nd Squad in Shinsen Gumi . Is said to be the only one who has defeated Souji Okita in one-on-one dojo duel . Like Souji , he was always in the raid squad . Maybe that's why he killed the most . In the famous Ikedaya incident , there was only fifteen shinsengumi members did checking on Ikedaya , and surprisingly encountered a big meeting of Chosu clan . That was a legendary incident where fifteen Shinsengumi members fought big numbers of Chosu clan members (Most record says more than 40) . When other reinforcement arrived , the only survived was Nagakura , Harada , Souji , and another two . While most of the enemies were murdered . After Okita sick and retired , Nagakura lead RAID SQUAD (Squad 1 and 2) . Like Saito , Nagakura survived until Meiji . He wrote the famous book , Shinsengumi tenmatsu ki , a full story of shinsen Gumi .
Saito HajimeFrankly speaking , his record is not as impressive as Okita and Nagakura , not even as impressive as Hijikata and Kondou , but I dont know why Japanese idolize him so much . ANyway , Nagakura , the only guy who defeated Souji , mentioned that Saito can stand against Okita , who is the best in Shinsen Gumi . He was quiet and scary person , according to Nagakura . He and his division work on spying and intelligence things . Perhaps why people see him as hero becouse he did kill several corrupt Shinsen Gumi even after Shogun reign ended . His chilhood , he murdered an official when he was 6 , and got prisoned . After release , he train at certain dojos around Izu , before his talent caught attention of Hijikata . But , I say , I dont think that he is worth to be put as modern sword legend along with Nagakura and Okita .

ScottUK

6th July 2006, 05:20 AM

Stop cutting and pasting, you twat.

http://www.nexgear.com/lofiversion/index.php?t12896.html

ScottUK

6th July 2006, 05:21 AM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Metsuke again.Aw nuts....

Metsuke

6th July 2006, 07:32 AM

Stop cutting and pasting, you twat.

http://www.nexgear.com/lofiversion/index.php?t12896.html

Sorry I posted this before you explained this to me in the other thread.

havocangel

30th October 2006, 12:11 PM

Muramasa was a real swordsmith. During the late 1500s Tokugawa Ieayusa made muramasa swords unpopular by claiming the swords were cursed, demon possesed and said that the swords saught blood. Many of Tokugawa's enemies used muramasa swords against the Tokugawa clan. Tokugawa's family was plagued by the "curse" of the muramasa. Ieayusa's Grandfather, father, son and wife were all slain by muramasa weapons. Their were 3 genreations of muramasa swordsmiths. The rival swordsmith to Muramasa was Masamune. It was said that you could put both swords blade facing upstream and the leaves floating down stream would pass by the Masamune sword where the Muramasa sword would split the leaves in two. Muramasa made 3 masterwork swords, roumered to be indisturctable and extremly violent weapons. One given to Yukimaura Sanada, another given to Miyamoto Musashi, and the other given to a Hideyoshi Toyotomi samurai who's name wasn't given.

About Hanzo Hattori, Hanzo wasn't a swordsmith he was the leader of the Iga Ninja clan during the sengoku period of Japan. After Ieayusa became shogun and then shortly after retired in the late 1590s Hanzo was promoted to the chief counsoler of Hidetada Tokugawa, Ieayusa's 3rd born son.

cresentmoon

31st October 2006, 10:12 AM

actualli wen it comes to japanese swords there are five that are famous. and are still stoday listed as the five national treasures in japan....i remeber one of them being called the demon, and the other i forgot.
its listed in this book called swords and other hilted weapons, wriiten by differrnt people covering all the swords in the world including bayonets as well.

I_am_Cthulhu

31st October 2006, 11:55 PM

Muramasa made 3 masterwork swords, roumered to be indisturctable and extremly violent weapons. One given to Yukimaura Sanada, another given to Miyamoto Musashi, and the other given to a Hideyoshi Toyotomi samurai who's name wasn't given.Interesting. Can you tell me more about this?

euclid

2nd November 2006, 06:02 AM

nice reference (http://www.nihonto.ca/)

To swords I will never be able to afford.

:silly:

astroninja1

30th November 2009, 04:00 PM

Muramasa made 3 masterwork swords, roumered to be indisturctable and extremly violent weapons.

on a slightly off topic note, i remember seeing an anime that was based on this, (Samurai Deeper Kyo), but in the anime i think it was three weapons, and only 1 was a sword. the other 2 i think where a bow and a spear. other then that, it followed that legend pretty closely. almost to the letter if i remember correctly. its been a while since i saw it tho

ScottUK

30th November 2009, 05:21 PM

I've always found anime to be an excellent source of historical fact, just like Mel Gibson films.

willszenith

30th November 2009, 09:34 PM

Ok dokey , Im not to sure on mushashi having a muramasa blade, as even in 1634 Takanak Ume no Suke Shigeyoshi, the Magistrate of Nagasaki, was ordered to commit seppuku for hoarding 20+ muramasa blades.

So it was still a punishable offence to hold one, but it didnt stop pro toyotomi sanada and masanori from owning/wearing them.

It all started with Ieyasu's grandfather Kiyoyasu who was killed by his retainer (Abe?) and was 'cut in two' by the 'muramasa blade used.

Ieyasu's father ( Matsudaira Hirotada ) was also attacked and killed by retainer (Hachiya?) this too was a muramasa blade.

Ieyasu's son when committing seppuku under the orders of Nobunaga , it is said the second used a muramasa blade.

It is said that Ieyasu cut himself on a wakizaki and yari both muramasa, so he banned them sighting they are cursed towards the house of Tokugawa, so they become very popular with anti-tokugawa factions/daiymo, but also many were defaced on the tang to prevent being caught.

Many myths drift around these blades,m many re-invented during the meiji restoration and the defeat of the last tokugawa forces, the swords were used as a symbol of anti tokugawa movements.

b8amack

1st December 2009, 12:18 AM

an excellent source of historical fact, just like Mel Gibson films.

They even predict the future!

Jonathan

1st December 2009, 06:39 AM

I'd love to find out about Kojiro's Laundry Drying Pole / Silver Frost.

Anybody come across good references on that one aside from wikipedia?

ScottUK

1st December 2009, 06:51 AM

Silver Frost?

Jonathan

1st December 2009, 06:57 AM

I've heard it was an alternate name for his trademark sword. My guess is a crazy hamon, maybe something like a hitatsura? Might just be bad info on my part but I have seen it in a number of places.

ScottUK

1st December 2009, 07:02 AM

The Shimada Museum in Kumamoto has a replica of Kojiro's sword - and it is jolly big. Never heard it called that though. Got a reference?

Jonathan

1st December 2009, 07:38 AM

Absolutely - search pulled up a reference in a book called "Bokken: art of the Japanese Sword" by Dave Lowry. Scrolling down has it literally as "Frost Silver"

http://books.google.com/books?id=1ZhxhhVaQtcC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=Sasaki+Kojiro+Silver+Frost&source=bl&ots=m3McQOMx9w&sig=XcMU4DGlafjnD75ehtbQDmyTAHw&hl=en&ei=XEgUS9fTIsLilAfCvdmYBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Sasaki%20Kojiro%20Silver%20Frost&f=false

The bit about the hamon is absolutely a conjecture on my part, no idea what the thing would have looked like.

ScottUK

1st December 2009, 07:45 AM

That reads like historical fiction... I'll drop the author an email.

Got any other references?

Jonathan

1st December 2009, 07:51 AM

Off the top of my head that's all I have other than some sake-drenched conversations with one of my friends / instructors :D

I can only assume Mr. Lowry got it from somewhere, it is my understanding he's a really knowledgeable guy. If you do happen to find out anything, I hope you share it here!

ScottUK

2nd December 2009, 07:05 PM

Mr Lowry got back to me quite quickly.

He said that he thinks the reference came from a book by Imamura Yoshio. However, he also suggested that the sword's more common name of Monohoshi-zao is a better suggestion for any kind of research.

Jonathan

3rd December 2009, 01:02 AM

Cool, thank you for doing the legwork there. I'll stick with the Monohoshi-zao / Laundry Drying Pole in references going forward. It certainly gives more responses in search engines and is much more immediately recognizable.

That particular piece has always been interesting to me, and I appreciate you pointing out the exhibit at the Shimada museum, it was really something to see a physical representation of it, even on my screen. When I finally get an opportunity to visit Japan, I'll make that a top destination.

ScottUK

3rd December 2009, 04:30 AM

Aim to have a few days in Kumamoto. Plenty of budo goodness to see there.

willszenith

3rd December 2009, 05:42 AM

Aim to have a few days in Kumamoto. Plenty of budo goodness to see there.

Yes pay homage to my statue there!!!!!!!

ScottUK

3rd December 2009, 06:01 AM

You mean this one (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottuk/477238480/in/set-72157600899778298/)?

Jonathan

3rd December 2009, 06:42 AM

How embarrassing! Someone carved him with the blade facing the wrong way.

I'll see what I can do to rectify this when I make it out that way.

ScottUK

3rd December 2009, 06:45 AM

How embarrassing! Someone carved him with the blade facing the wrong way.

I'll see what I can do to rectify this when I make it out that way.Please tell me you're joking and not a complete muppet.

Jonathan

3rd December 2009, 06:47 AM

I'm aware of the difference between tachi and katana, yes.

I couldn't help it though.

ScottUK

3rd December 2009, 06:55 AM

I was right about the muppet part.

corwyn

4th December 2009, 04:37 AM

LOL...I know Jon personally. I can vouch for his muppetness. :laugh:

Jonathan

4th December 2009, 06:42 AM

Jonathan

4th December 2009, 07:09 AM

Getting sort of back on subject, my next sword I'm anxiously anticipating is based off of a Muramasa piece. Next time I talk to the smith I will try to get the details on which particular one he was going for.

Visuals at http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u287/jonithen/muramasa_kat/ - once this baby arrives I'll get some better images put up.

corwyn

4th December 2009, 07:10 AM

It's ok, the important thing is we've moved beyond name-calling.

Nice to see you! There are only so many people I would know from Worcester - am I right in assuming you were at the Yanagi Ryu seminar?

Oh man, I just realized something.... I know someone *else* named Jonathan from this area (also on this forum, but different handle). My apologies!!

(indeed, *I* am a muppet...)

Jonathan

4th December 2009, 07:14 AM

Well you are in good company ;)

Small world though. I'd love to visit your dojo sometime if you fellows are in the area.

Halcyon

4th December 2009, 07:23 AM

Whoah. Two things I noticed about those swords: Alot of them had hi, (or bohi?) and isn't that something that cutting swords usually don't have? And another was that it seemed like just about all of them were much more curved than the iaito I usually see today? That seems strange.
One of the things I was surprised to see at the current "Art of the Samurai" exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York was how many of the blades on display had bohi. We're talking national treasures and important cultural objects here. Very common, in fact, for tachi, uchi-gatana and katana alike. As for the curvature (sori), many katana were made by cutting down tachi, so that may partly explain that. I also recall seeing a documentary which mentioned that sori generally grew deeper during war time and shallower during peace time.

Jonathan

4th December 2009, 07:51 AM

willszenith

4th December 2009, 08:42 PM

I'd love to check out that exhibit. Most of the antique swords I have seen for on various websites have been overwhelmingly without bo-hi. It would make sense that adding a decent bo-hi or horimono would increase the amount of labor it took to construct a good sword.

A deep sori for a sword that was designed to see action makes sense to me - a straighter blade seems to make drawing and noto a little easier but that doesn't seem like it would be as much of a concern on the field (if I was down to using my katana, I wouldn't be putting it away until I had an opportunity to grab a decent bow or naginata or something or I found my way to someplace less hazardous). I wonder what more experienced individuals would have to say on that subject. I do know my more heavily curved blades were considerably easier to cut targets with.

At a risk of repeating myself ( in a similar thread) you have to look at the evolution of the japanese sword from tachi to show we say shinken, by the time the sword which we use in iaido etc became the mainstay ( so early edo+) large mass battles were on the decline, so we may have to look at the katana etc in a more 'domestic' use, moving from horseback to foot, would in time cause the sori to change, although not always the case in japanese swords.

For example a 19th century British cavalry officers sword is far more curved then his infantry officers counterpart. Curvature helps when moving at speed and above a target ( say horseback) it becomes less important when fighting on foot, and if a blade becomes double edged , curvature is virtually non -existent. But this is a generalisation there are always exception.

When you say about putting a katana away on the field , you wouldnt, but then iaido isnt battlefield swordplay, its more Edo onwards a situation of you and xx amount of opponents usually one or two, in a 'domestic' environment, Iaido doesnt deal with dueling on a battlefield in mass ranks.

corwyn

4th December 2009, 11:15 PM

Well you are in good company ;)

Small world though. I'd love to visit your dojo sometime if you fellows are in the area.

Sure...our main dojo is in Acton, MA, but we also have satellite classes in Worcester, MA, and Brookline, NH. http://www.doshikai.org/index.php?disp=location

Jonathan

5th December 2009, 12:19 AM

At a risk of repeating myself ( in a similar thread) you have to look at the evolution of the japanese sword from tachi to show we say shinken, by the time the sword which we use in iaido etc became the mainstay ( so early edo+) large mass battles were on the decline, so we may have to look at the katana etc in a more 'domestic' use, moving from horseback to foot, would in time cause the sori to change, although not always the case in japanese swords.

For example a 19th century British cavalry officers sword is far more curved then his infantry officers counterpart. Curvature helps when moving at speed and above a target ( say horseback) it becomes less important when fighting on foot, and if a blade becomes double edged , curvature is virtually non -existent. But this is a generalisation there are always exception.

When you say about putting a katana away on the field , you wouldnt, but then iaido isnt battlefield swordplay, its more Edo onwards a situation of you and xx amount of opponents usually one or two, in a 'domestic' environment, Iaido doesnt deal with dueling on a battlefield in mass ranks.

I'll admit I haven't done much with a straight blade, but it does seem that the curve helps when cutting things on an equal level as well. I am sure that the height and momentum advantage can only amplify this effect. When cutting, just pushing an edge into something isn't quite enough to separate material, silly example think steak knife. With the sword, I think the curve assists this function. An article at http://www.thearma.org/essays/howacutworks.htm touches on this, I figured it might be semi-relevent. Aside from reading the occasional article I don't have a lot to do with Western style swordsmanship.

It could just be a matter of what I'm accustomed to, maybe if I started with a longsword I'd think that was "easier" to cut with.

From the context of how they were being used, altering the shape to accommodate being able to get that piece of steel out and ready for use makes a lot of sense as the conditions changed.