zekken for korean names in japanese dojo

[hyuna]

The recent other zekken thread reminded me of something I am a bit confused about.

Japanese people write their surnames with kanji, and so it seems quite reasonable to put kanji for their names on their zekken. Ok.

In kumdo dojang I have seen, names on zekken are in hangul (Korean phonetic alphabet), which makes sense because Korean people write their names with hangul, even though there is a hanja (Chinese character i.e. kanji) equivalent.

So in Japanese dojo, are Korean names on zekken written with kanji or katakana? I wonder the same about Chinese kendo players.

Being of Korean ancestry, I myself have this situation. Personally, I have the kanji for my surname, because that is what my Japanese sensei gave me on my first zekken when I started as a teenager and I have always practiced in Japanese style kendo dojo (not Korean kumdo dojang) since I started. But it is always a litlte awkward when meeting new people, because, of course, it is not a normal Japanese last name, so it looks a bit odd, and also it does not really tell anyone what my name is--not Korean people since, as I said, it hanja is not usually used for names, and not Japanese people since the kanji pronounciation is obviously different from the hanja pronounciation. If it turns out that it is more normal in Japan to have katakana for Korean names, I would be inclined to get a zekken with katakana on it for when I am visiting other dojo, or going to seminars, or whatever. But, if it is normal and accepted to use the Chinese character, I guess I will just continue with how I have things now.

[KevinF]

It is perfectly normal for Koreans to use kanji in Japan.

Legally, the rule of law in Japan concerning kanji is that any person who has official identification documentation from their own country with kanji listed on it may use kanji for official, legal purposes in Japan. This applies to Korea and any version of China. Since westerners cannot have official state documentation issued in Chinese characters, it is impossible for westerners to have kanji. (Many people do use kanij, but it is all ateji - made-up phoenetic usages of kanji applied willy-nilly to western names, and the kanji cannot be used in contracts, etc.).

Historically, some Koreans who have been in Japan for generations mave tried to blend in to the population by altering their names slightly. For example, the common Korean name if Kim is written using the Chinese character for gold or money, which is phoenetically "kin" in Japanese. The Japanese reading of "kin" is "kane," and thus some people with family names that sart with this character are of Korean heritge (for example: "Kanezawa" can indicate possible Korean heritage).

I think the bottom line is that you have every right (even a legal one in Japan) to use Chinese characters. In addition, I don't think anyone would or should ever discourage you from using Korean characters either. So it's your choice. I would encourage you, regardless of decision, to include romanji (Roman characters) on the zekken to assist everyone in reading your name.
By the way, there are no hard rules for zekken. It is a tool to identify you during practice and during shiai, so I would make the main consideration in getting a new zekken the potential comprehension for other kendokas.

[T.Lee]

im not sure how its handled outside of the states, but here its common to see the one chinese character of the family name on the zekken. then usually, korean-americans like me just write the first initial and last name in english at the bottom (ie T. Lee). surprisingly, i havent run into another T. Lee yet in california. dojo name up top as usual of course.

ive also seen the two chinese characters of the persons first name at the bottom, as opposed to english. or none at all... one particular korean dojo just puts the whole first name at the bottom, just cuz a whole korean dojo could have over a dozen 'kim's or 'lee's alone.

i dont think its uncommon at all for koreans to identify surnames by hanja. i see it all the time. i know my dads signature he writes in chinese script, not hangul. so i wouldnt be particularly sensitive about keeping the hanja on your zekken. i would think any japanese person who sees the single kanji in your zekken would probably assume youre korean anyways (especially if its kim, lee, park), although there are single character japanese last names.

put whatever you like on your zekken. whatever you feel identifies yourself, your dojo and your background the most.

[sminki]

I have yet to see Korean last name written phonetically in Katakana on a zekken. As Korean last names can be expressed in Chinese character, I would think it is more appropriate to write it in Chinese character rather than Katakana. It is only in Korean dojangs which do not have a lot of contact with Japanese/American places which will write names in hangul (well, typically speaking).

In Korea, use of hangul on zekkens (or myungpae as Koreans call it) is typically limited to elementary school kids or those with pure Korean (not Chinese character based) names. Of course, that is the traditional way. What the common practice will be in thr future, who knows.

[sminki]

Plus, you have a last name that is written in Chinese character with Korean way of pronunciation. You can put the English spelling underneath for people to pronounce it correctly. Why would you have your name in Katakana so that the Japanese people can pronounce it correctly while the English spelling will clearly tell everyone and not just the Japanese people at your dojo?

[Andoru]

In my state, kendoka and kumdoka train with each other freely and compete together. The most common way I've seen on zekken for koreans is kanji (or hanji if you prefer). I've seen korean characters on the zekken too for some but they are not that common. I do normally get them confused since the surnames "Kim", "Lee" and "Park" are quite common.

[kuzu70]

I do normally get them confused since the surnames "Kim", "Lee" and "Park" are quite common.We have many "Kang"s too.

[ISSAC RU]

Kanji looks much better than katakana and hangul.

Koreans are suppose to put their surname in chinese character on zekken.
Kanji is like a common language in northeast asia.

[mingshi]

Kanji looks much better than katakana and hangul... Blah blah blah...
Many Korean and Japanese names are purely kana or hangul-based nowadays.

Why don't you update your Asian culture knowledge first, emigrated boy??

[ISSAC RU]

This is why our culture can never be preserved , because we have people like you.

[ISSAC RU]

hangul is a alphabet , sometimes different names sound exactly the same . Thats why you need kanji zekken to identify yourself more clearly.

[mingshi]

yadda yadda...Thats why you need kanji zekken to identify yourself more clearly.
That's just illogical. You got loads of Wangs and Lees with the same kanji as well.

You can start preserving your own culture by signing your posts with a traditional Chinese poem written in 1275 A.D. not typed in Simplifed Chinese if you want.

[The great I AM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISSAC RU
yadda yadda...Thats why you need kanji zekken to identify yourself more clearly.


That's just illogical. You got loads of Wangs and Lees with the same kanji as well.

You can start preserving your own culture by signing your posts with a traditional Chinese poem written in 1275 A.D. not typed in Simplifed Chinese if you want.


HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Busted! Preserve that!

And what exactly do you mean by can't preserve your own culture because of people like him. Its not his job, its yours, surely. If its your culture, and you don't like what someone else is doing with it, educate them, don't simply mouth off. Thats just narrow minded.

[hyuna]

Thanks everyone for so many useful and interesting responses. I definitely learned a great deal from this, so I am glad I asked.

Regarding printing the english spelling on my zekken (for some reason that sounds funny to me -- "english spelling"), I have owned 3 zekken in my life. The first was the one my first sensei ordered for me, and had only dojo and kanji. The second, I used for only a short time because I am unhappy with the shape of the kanji on it. I suppose it is legible but it looks, well, ugly, to me (but, what do I know). The third, I requested to have the english, but, for whatever reason, I found it did not have the english after I received it. And, my frustration with the company for other reasons was such that it was not worth it to me to fight with them over the omission, especially as I was not charged for the extra letters. So, the point about having the roman letters printed is well taken. One of these days, I am sure I will be able to find a zekken that comes out right.


i dont think its uncommon at all for koreans to identify surnames by hanja. i see it all the time.
I didn't mean to say that Koreans would find hanja incomprehensible on a zekken, but after re-reading what i wrote, I can see it does come across that way. Really what I was trying to get at is that I would like my zekken to be "normal" and I was not sure what the custom was.


n Korea, use of hangul on zekkens (or myungpae as Koreans call it) is typically limited to elementary school kids or those with pure Korean (not Chinese character based) names.
I did not know that at all and that is very good to know, thanks!


This is why our culture can never be preserved , because we have people like you.
I am a little confused about who that was intended to be a reply to. I thought mingshi, perhaps. But that didn't make much sense to me, since she was pointing out something about the native culture names (that there are many only kana/hangul based now), so I don't understand how pointing that out somehow prevents "our culture" from being preserved.

So, I thought maybe it was intended for me, in which case I think it is a fair criticism--I admit that I am not very culturally educated. I do think it is a little unkind in this context, since I was just asking what is the correct way to do this thing, and if that is not trying to be culturally sensitive, I am not sure what is.

So, I guess I don't really know what ISSAC RU was trying to say.

Nevertheless, thank you all for the very interesting and helpful information!

[KevinF]

Hyuna,

ISSAC RU's comments are... irrevelant.

His original commentary was:

"Kanji looks much better than katakana and hangul."

Subjective and irrevelant. I personally think circles look cool in writing...

"Koreans are suppose to put their surname in chinese character on zekken.
Kanji is like a common language in northeast asia."

Both statements are incorrect. Koreans can do whatever they like. There is no international standardization of zekken with regard to hangul or kanji or katakana - the IKF has never said anything about it. Furthermore, the comment that kanji is like a common language ... is so outside the realm of reality that any detailed comment is a waste of time.

The bottom line is that you should do what makes you comfortable - kanji or hangul, both are fine, but I really would add romanji to the bottom to assist others in the dojo and at tournaments, testings, etc. And if you are training at a Japanese dojo, the top name of the dojo should be as other on theri zekken (Japanese, English or whatever).

And I think ISSAC RU's comments later were directed at mingshi. It sounds like a whole Hong Kong vs. mainland China language and writing debate. There isn't a solution to that argument, by the way.

[DCPan]

You can start preserving your own culture by signing your posts with a traditional Chinese poem written in 1275 A.D. not typed in Simplifed Chinese if you want.

Shobu Ari!

I think traditional Chinese will be outphased in my life time though....*sigh*

I just can't bring myself to learn simplied Chinese.

FWIW.

[ISSAC RU]

I have no mean to bring up any hk vs China topics.
I just can't stand someone put made in hk on their website.
You don't see sony put made in tokyo or Osaka , they put made in Japan.

Pure regionalism .

[The great I AM]

I have no mean to bring up any hk vs China topics.
I just can't stand someone put made in hk on their website.
You don't see sony put made in tokyo or Osaka , they put made in Japan.

Pure regionalism .
Errr, I think you did bring the whole HK vs China topic in, by throwing around things like "I just can't stand someone put made in HK on their website".
What is so abhorrent about it? You know this is almost racism, and doesn't really have a place on this thread, even this forum, wouldn't you say?

And as Kevin F said, there is no solution to this arguement. So why bother?

[mingshi]

You don't see sony put made in tokyo or Osaka , they put made in Japan.
Contrary to general belief, my SONY mobile has "Made in France" on it, and the A/C adapter has "Made in China" on it.

On my right hand side rests my graphic tablet - "Made in Taiwan"!!

You are just jealous with only 7 million people, the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region can have their own Olympics Team. Same goes for Taiwan (Chinese Taipei).

BTW stop making fake Gucci and LV bags.

p.s. I started reading Simplied Chinese since the age of 5, and I still go to ShenZhen's Xinhua Bookstore to grab cheap books. You simply can't beat me on that.

[Yo...osh!]

Isaac Ru,

Everytime I read your post, it's always so nationalistic. Can you please stop it. It's really annoying. Learn to live with your friends or go back to China and be a politician.