MONKEY KENDO, anyone?

[Matlock]

Hello Everyone,

I have recently had an interesting experience during my training here in Japan, that I simply must tell you all about and ask for your comments. Apart from my normal training, I have recently has the opportunity to visit a dojo in Hokkaido where I have a few friends. This place is the most northern in Hokkaido and even Japan, for that matter. I found the kendo to be... mmm... interesting. There was a few really good teachers there but the high ranking senseis are pretty scare in number in that area. The highest ranks were 5th dan and the head of the dojo was 5th dan as well.

The short story is that it was shiai kendo but in a new version. There was one high school boy there who had, what looked like, "Monkey Kendo", perhaps an influence from a kung fu form? This guy was all over the place... bouncing, jumping, and even croaching down.... I would be fighting him in a straight chu-dan and then he would drop to ge-dan and crouch his enitre body down... I could move in for a men shot but if there was more distance, he would jump towards me in the air from that position and try to hit my men. Some of the strangest stuff I have ever encountered in kendo. All the students, would jerk their heads out of the way prior to being hit by my shinai. Not saying it is bad but I mean, even the 8-12 year olds were doing it.

Is this a case of less-trained teaching or is this the beginning of a new kendo style??? Monkey Forms??

Look forward to reading your comments.

Cheers

[Light Samurai]

Hello Everyone,

I have recently had an interesting experience during my training here in Japan, that I simply must tell you all about and ask for your comments. Apart from my normal training, I have recently has the opportunity to visit a dojo in Hokkaido where I have a few friends. This place is the most northern in Hokkaido and even Japan, for that matter. I found the kendo to be... mmm... interesting. There was a few really good teachers there but the high ranking senseis are pretty scare in number in that area. The highest ranks were 5th dan and the head of the dojo was 5th dan as well.

The short story is that it was shiai kendo but in a new version. There was one high school boy there who had, what looked like, "Monkey Kendo", perhaps an influence from a kung fu form? This guy was all over the place... bouncing, jumping, and even croaching down.... I would be fighting him in a straight chu-dan and then he would drop to ge-dan and crouch his enitre body down... I could move in for a men shot but if there was more distance, he would jump towards me in the air from that position and try to hit my men. Some of the strangest stuff I have ever encountered in kendo. All the students, would jerk their heads out of the way prior to being hit by my shinai. Not saying it is bad but I mean, even the 8-12 year olds were doing it.

Is this a case of less-trained teaching or is this the beginning of a new kendo style??? Monkey Forms??

Look forward to reading your comments.

Cheers
That reminds me of a stance used in the way of the samurai for PS2... Maybe influenced by that?

[Alan03]

I've heard of jump men before...

http://www.yorku.ca/kendo/cgi-bin/board/id/Kendo/files/Jump.JPG

[Matlock]

That reminds me of a stance used in the way of the samurai for PS2... Maybe influenced by that?

There you go! The guy has been playing too much PS2! He would score a good kote from time to time which I acknowledged but when my men shots would score, he franticly pushed me away as like he was attempting to ensure it was not a point. Too much emphasis on shiai, I think. I really have not seen so much of that before here but from time to time you have it, but this monkey style is new to me.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Cheers

[Light Samurai]

There you go! The guy has been playing too much PS2! He would score a good kote from time to time which I acknowledged but when my men shots would score, he franticly pushed me away as like he was attempting to ensure it was not a point. Too much emphasis on shiai, I think. I really have not seen so much of that before here but from time to time you have it, but this monkey style is new to me.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Cheers
I wasn;'t being serious, but that might be a reason.. Does the Sensei teach that method, or no?

[AkuSokuZan]

..... -_-;


If he has been playing too much video games, then why doesn't his sensei tell him to stop his ~unique~ style..

Matlock, does anyone else in the dojo do what he does??

"monkey" style kendo?? Well, it really is odd isn't it?? You never know what will surprise you in this world.

[Matlock]

I've heard of jump men before...

What I was trying to describe was not like that, but rather a crouch and then a leap forward and up. You know, like the character Golem in the Lord of the Rings. I was taught that the straight back was important in chudan. What was your experience?

Cheers

[Matlock]

I wasn;'t being serious, but that might be a reason.. Does the Sensei teach that method, or no?

The sensei does not teach it and the monkey boy also plays at his high school at a seperate dojo but the kicker is that the monkey boy is the main sensei's son. His father has great straight kendo with tons of seme.


Matlock, does anyone else in the dojo do what he does??

The other students use the same dodging techniques but no one else jumps around like a monkey. He also tends to be pretty rough, to the point of being a bully the other students. I think the other students just try to mimic what they see the monkey boy do.

Cheers

[Light Samurai]

The sensei does not teach it and the monkey boy also plays at his high school at a seperate dojo but the kicker is that the monkey boy is the main sensei's son. His father has great straight kendo with tons of seme.



The other students use the same dodging techniques but no one else jumps around like a monkey. He also tends to be pretty rough, to the point of being a bully the other students. I think the other students just try to mimic what they see the monkey boy do.

Cheers
Practice normally. When he jumps, if it's allowed in Kendo - Ram your shoulder into him, he'll hit the mat hard, and he'll learn something. I doubt this is allowed though.

[Alan03]

What I was trying to describe was not like that, but rather a crouch and then a leap forward and up. You know, like the character Golem in the Lord of the Rings. I was taught that the straight back was important in chudan. What was your experience?

Cheers

Yea I was taught the same. Having a straight back is very important so that your centre isn't all over the place. Though I do have a bad habit of leaning forward a lot which gets my men beat in.

The way you described it sounds like a leap frog attack!

[Matlock]

Yea I was taught the same. Having a straight back is very important so that your centre isn't all over the place. Though I do have a bad habit of leaning forward a lot which gets my men beat in.

The way you described it sounds like a leap frog attack!

Well...I get monkeys and frogs confused all the time, it is a nightmare when I visit the zoo. :)

Without the center, you have little seme... but all during chudan, he was bashing my shinai back and forth, I times it a few times and got in on him but it was like he was using 100% strength. He was also a 2-dan in Hokkaido as well.

Cheers

[kendokamax]

take some video or something

this is entertaining!

[Hisham]

I think that his father sees his situation as a phase which will pass, the thing is it's bad image for all the 2 dan out there :D

[Verythrax]

At a championship here, one or another kenshi used to bend their heads to the sides to avoid men hits.


No shimpan said a word, but the other kenshi that were watching didn't looked to that with good eyes. And if that dispute needed to be decided by the shimpans, I'm sure they would had give the victory to his opponent.

[StormTyrant]

I love kendo and it has become a major part of who i am but at the same time iv always felt that it was just a little too traditional. Ill never claim to know what kendo is all about(im going for 3rd kyu in a month and iv been doing it about 10 months) But at the same time, as long as they are within the rules, i have allot more fun fighting people with unique styles.

[streetcleaner]

I love kendo and it has become a major part of who i am but at the same time iv always felt that it was just a little too traditional. Ill never claim to know what kendo is all about(im going for 3rd kyu in a month and iv been doing it about 10 months) But at the same time, as long as they are within the rules, i have allot more fun fighting people with unique styles.

unique styles? fighting? major part of who you are? little too traditional? .... you said that and you are 3rd kyu??? .............

[JSchmidt]

At a championship here, one or another kenshi used to bend their heads to the sides to avoid men hits.


No shimpan said a word, but the other kenshi that were watching didn't looked to that with good eyes.

Why would the shimpan say anything?

Jakob

[Lazken]

shimpans dont talk ... they use flags to communicate :p

just kidding,

each his own style ... some peoples styles are just ... extreme :p

[D'Artagnan]

Leave the monkey kid alone, he's probably spent the last few centuries trapped under a mountain - no wonder his kendo is a little rusty... :smoker:

[Hisham]

I love kendo and it has become a major part of who i am but at the same time iv always felt that it was just a little too traditional. Ill never claim to know what kendo is all about(im going for 3rd kyu in a month and iv been doing it about 10 months) But at the same time, as long as they are within the rules, i have allot more fun fighting people with unique styles.

Other than the obvious differences between a Jodan ,nito users .. etc "Styles" in Kendo are more nuanced if i may say so, what i mean is you can find differences between people who use the same kamae in shiai, according to my teacher your unique "style" start showing after 5th or 6th dan.

[Dave Fowler]

First, the moving the head from side to side to avoid being hit is something that tends to be a bit common in kendoists who are concentrating more on shiai rather than form. I know myself that while I'd like to do better in the tournament shiai's that I refuse to compromise my form. Recently at the last tournament, while I didn't go very far in the tournament I had a couple of Sensei comment afterwards they liked my 'clean' kendo.

As for the jumping that I noticed both from students here from Japan, and school kids in Japan that they think they need to jump in order to get that extra distance. (And of course they are young and nimble enough to get away with it) but when they move to a more older style they tend to lose that jumping idea.

As for the crouching and other goofy stuff well it's hard to say without seeing what they are doing but ya I could believe that there are oddball things out there like that... good luck with fighting it :-)

[kuzu70]

We can comment on how this is wrong or that is wrog, but if this monkey dude can get some legitimate points, maybe we can learn a little from him.

[Verythrax]

Why would the shimpan say anything?

Jakob

Hehe, you got me :)

I just expressed me wrong, but you got what I meant, I believe.

[Matlock]

We can comment on how this is wrong or that is wrog, but if this monkey dude can get some legitimate points, maybe we can learn a little from him.

Kuzu-san, that is the question... I do not think that monkey boy is scoring legitimate points. Flying through the air, or bending down sideways to jump up lacks zanshin, ki-ken-tai and even ken tai.... I am not even really sure if it is kendo.... His strikes were circular rather than up and down in attempting to fake out his opponents. His bouncing, lack of seme and over all concept of "I MUST HIT ANYTHING" rather than aiming and striking a kote, do or men... I took a good smack on the back of my arm in the tricept area from one of his wild circle moneky moves....

Please let me know if this is any kind of legitimate kendo you know of :)

Cheers

[JSchmidt]

Have your tried just keeping your center?. I would just ignore him and focus on my own kendo. Further, how do the teachers deal with him?

Jakob

[Hisham]

Matlock said in an earlier post that his father who's his teacher appears to be unconcerned. BTW Matlock did you get to see him fight against people from his dojo? and was he doing the same act?

[kuzu70]

Matlock-san, I would say that if you feel his strikes are not legitimate, then ignore those strikes that are not legitimate and take that opportunity to strike him. But, I would be careful in judging what is legitimate or not. Perhaps this monkey boy has no zanshin and his body is all contorted, but if he is striking you with the proper datotsu-bu of the shinai, I would not underestimate his hits.

This is all speculation, as I have never seen this monkey kendo. You would probably be able to judge the situation a lot better than I can.

Good luck.

[grasshopper_r2]

Mabee we could call it "Crouching Monkey, Hidden Kendo" ?? HAHa, Musashi did say to use the unconventional? But, this could be just strange. However, I would love to see it, and keiko a couple of rounds for fun??

[Ric Flinn]

What I was trying to describe was not like that, but rather a crouch and then a leap forward and up. You know, like the character Golem in the Lord of the Rings. I was taught that the straight back was important in chudan. What was your experience?

Cheers

Two words (no wait, one word): TSUKI!!! You tsuki him good and solid in mid-air and he'll learn real quick why that style of kendo's not gonna fly (heh heh) with you.

[Ric Flinn]

unique styles? fighting? major part of who you are? little too traditional? .... you said that and you are 3rd kyu??? .............

No, no, he's going for 3rd kyu. Get the facts straight if you're going to disparage someone. :)

[samurai-x]

DONT TELL ME THIS DOJO'S GOTTA RED BOTTOMED NERD FREAK !!:ko:

[nahte123]

shimpans dont talk ... they use flags to communicate

Like the shyguys from Mario!!!

Anyway, I think this is another instance where a tsuki would be an easy solution...just hold it up there when he jumps, he rams his own throat into the end of your shinai...

Is there anything a tsuki can't solve???

[KhawMengLee]

Well...I get monkeys and frogs confused all the time, it is a nightmare when I visit the zoo. :)

Without the center, you have little seme... but all during chudan, he was bashing my shinai back and forth, I times it a few times and got in on him but it was like he was using 100% strength. He was also a 2-dan in Hokkaido as well.

Cheers

He could be just fooling around with you...once, in a while I do rugby kendo especially when shinai hanase happens.

[Phil-co]

shimpans dont talk ... they use flags to communicate

Like the shyguys from Mario!!!

Did the shyguys from Super Mario Bros. use flags to communicate? Did they communicate at all?

[Lazken]

never noticed, they died before they got any chance of communication :p

[Andou]

To the question before this...I dunno...I hate shyguys...


However to the "Monkey Kendo" question I think I may be able to offer a little more insight. I hate to keep bringing him up...but my father used to tell me when he watched me practice that some people's posture were too straight and some of the kendo he saw in America led him to believe that some senseis were teaching the students too much and never letting their students develop a style of their own. When he was practicing he said he saw many, many different styles. Chudan no kamae could have different movements associated with it. He said one guy would sway back and forth like a wave in the sea and when he would strike with sudden ferocity, it was almost confusing because of the intensity. Then there are some who moved excessively and were also good...so I think it all depends on what kind of sensei they have and what the personality of the kendoka are regarding this...maybe I'm just stupid and making no sense at all...but...I hope that helps.