History of Kendo

[hamish]

Check out our latest article to go up on the web, Alex's overview of kendo's modern history:

http://www.kendo-world.com/articles/magazine/Synopsis_of_kendo/index.php

Hamish

[ISSAC RU]

Sofa...I am the first

[hamish]

Give us some feedback on the article, as its part of a much larger book on kendo history, and can help us see if there are any areas of interest we should cover in more detail.

[Fonsz]

Give us some feedback on the article, as its part of a much larger book on kendo history, and can help us see if there are any areas of interest we should cover in more detail.
I'm wondering about the present day Buto Kai. They still excist as a organisation with an Imperial Prince as head of the organisation. What is the relevance(sp?) of this organisation. Is it an organisation which has any authority and they claim to be the Mother of all Budo is this the case? Just wondering why a disbanded organisation is still around and to what purpose.
Kindest regards

[hamish]

They are a pretty much irrelevant organisation. Although not always the case, having a prince on the board is pretty much a giveaway that it doesn't have much influence, and, if anything, is probably filled with old right-wing guys, as with most of the iaido federations.

[Stephen]

Great essay.

Would be very interested in futher details regarding the gekiken kogyo (although I'm sure there must be very limited records concerning the events)

[Fonsz]

They are a pretty much irrelevant organisation. Although not always the case, having a prince on the board is pretty much a giveaway that it doesn't have much influence, and, if anything, is probably filled with old right-wing guys, as with most of the iaido federations.
Ok that would explain their unknown image other than being the oldest Budo association. If you look at their web site they look very much alive and kicking but their latest event was a few years ago. Thanks for this inside information because I have to confess that it really intrigued me that an ancient organisation is still around although with right wingers.
Love the essay by the way and can't wait for the book.
Kindest regards

[Kingofmyrrh]

Reading this reminded of a question I've always had. I've seen some people read 川路利良 as Kawaji Toshinaga, others as Kawaji Toshiyoshi. The latter seems to be more common (and is in the essay), but the former doesn't seem to be uncommon either. Are some people just wrong, or is there a reason behind this that you know of? Not exactly to do with kendo...

[Optomitrist]

great essay.


I saw that other japanese martial arts were mentioned serveral times around the WWII period. I would still like to know more how those evolved to see how they compared to kendo during their development.

[Hisham]

A good amount of interesting information about kendo's past, which makes the book promissing.

I don't know why but the end of this article ,
"To steer kendo into the future requires an understanding of the past, and I believe that is clearly lacking in kendo communities around the world, including, dare I say it, Japan." quoted from A brief synopsis of the history of kendo by Alexander Bennett

brought me back to the last paragraph in the conclusion of Korea- The black ships of kendo
"Nevertheless, the objective of Japanese kendo at this stage should not be to seek to tame or control the ‘monster.’ Instead, Japan would be prudent to return to drastically pioneering kendo at home again, in the manner it was in the Meiji, Taisho, and early Showa periods. Japan has blessed the world with a wonderful blueprint. What the world needs now is a reliable role model to look up to and aspire to, which does not promote contradictions and double standards. Who will fill that role?" quoted from Korea- The black ships of kendo by Alexander Bennett

I guess the taboo attitude about things like the shinai kyogi that you mentioned is included in the lack of understanding of the past, does that mean the lack of visionaries that would adapt Kendo to its time and keep it's budo "soul" which IMHO should be the way to steer it to the futur?
Am i making any sense? :ponder:

[hamish]

The quote from Takeuchi and the 'spirit of the samurai' bollocks certainly leaves one in doubt that the AJKF/IKF has any idea about how to keep kendo relevant to people in today's world.

[KenShi_JoB]

The quote from Takeuchi and the 'spirit of the samurai' bollocks certainly leaves one in doubt that the AJKF/IKF has any idea about how to keep kendo relevant to people in today's world.

I think the quote is alright. I do not see which point that make you dissatisfied. Can you elaborate?

[hamish]

Do you really want to learn something that is relevant to a society from several hundred years ago, or do you want something that is going to be relevant to you now?

How many people started kendo after seeing the last samurai? How many are still around a year or so later? If its not relevant to your life, you won't stick at it for very long.

I know I don't want to do something that is billed as a means of understanding samurai values. Are samurai values applicable to all peoples in all cultures? Do people in Korea/New Zealand/Russia etc. want to learn samurai values?

What are samurai values and ethics, anyway?

If the top of the federation thinks that that is the way to make kendo relevant and popular, I'm sorry, but I don't agree. I'm not doing kendo as a lesson in history.

Why does the federation talk about the shinai as a samurai's sword, but then encourage rules and practices that obviously contradict that?

There's a serious disconnect between the kendo federation's words and the actual behaviour they encourage.

[KenShi_JoB]

Okay, I see your point. Here is my opinion. Sorry but my english isn't too good.

Do you really want to learn something that is relevant to a society from several hundred years ago, or do you want something that is going to be relevant to you now?
No black and white answer to these questions. IMHO I think that we can learn something from the past to make the present better. Many things that seem to irrelevant to modern age may be have much value than we thought.

How many people started kendo after seeing the last samurai? How many are still around a year or so later? If its not relevant to your life, you won't stick at it for very long.

Even if something relevant to our life, most people still neglect it, ex. family, wife, kid, and health etc.Many people enjoy watch basketball , but not that many play basketball regularly. Your example about last samurai may not indicate that kendo is irrelevant to modern life. May be it's just a matter of taste, or may be it indicate that people nowaday are bore too easy. Do we should change kendo to fit them? or they should change to fit kendo? If kendo need to sacrifice quality to appeal the mass, will it worth?

I know I don't want to do something that is billed as a means of understanding samurai values. Are samurai values applicable to all peoples in all cultures? Do people in Korea/New Zealand/Russia etc. want to learn samurai values?

I think some part of samurai value are applicable, some are not. IMHO much of kendo value are from samurai value. ofcourse, It's not for everyone, but nothing is for everyone. Christ is not for everyone, Buddhism are not for everone, but we didn't change it to fit everyone, right?


What are samurai values and ethics, anyway?

good one:courage, control(over one mind and body), manner, etc.
bad one: killing.
or may be I'm wrong.


If the top of the federation thinks that that is the way to make kendo relevant and popular, I'm sorry, but I don't agree. I'm not doing kendo as a lesson in history.

They even said that Promotion of Kendo neither means merely to increase the number of Kendo practitioners, nor to hold more competitions. Make it popoular are much easier if they do not intend to maintain its quality.

It's not history class but kendo do teach many good value from the past and most of them are timeless. exclude these value and kendo is nothing but stick bashing.

Why does the federation talk about the shinai as a samurai's sword, but then encourage rules and practices that obviously contradict that?

There's a serious disconnect between the kendo federation's words and the actual behaviour they encourage
This one I totally agree.

[Hisham]

The quote from Takeuchi and the 'spirit of the samurai' bollocks certainly leaves one in doubt that the AJKF/IKF has any idea about how to keep kendo relevant to people in today's world.

That's what i felt two.

[hamish]

Okay, I see your point. Here is my opinion. Sorry but my english isn't too good.

No black and white answer to these questions. IMHO I think that we can learn something from the past to make the present better. Many things that seem to irrelevant to modern age may be have much value than we thought.

True, but I don't think the important parts of kendo come from the past. Kendo's roots come from the samurai age, and I'm not saying we should deny that influence to some extent. But kendo was mostly developed long after the samurai had ceased being a force in society, and many (most) aspects of kendo were developed in the last 100 years at the earliest. To think they reflect much about real samurai values is a bit of a stretch. This is why the AJKF's official history of kendo mentions virtually nothing about shinai kyogi, because modern kendo owes much more to it than they would like to admit.


good one:courage, control(over one mind and body), manner, etc.
bad one: killing.
or may be I'm wrong.

I fail to see how those traits are only samurai values. Kendo is about values, but why dress them up with the 'mystery of the samurai' stuff? Why should you pay respect to things because they are supposedly 'a samurai's sword/clothes/etc.', and not because they are worthy of respect in their own right?


They even said that Promotion of Kendo neither means merely to increase the number of Kendo practitioners, nor to hold more competitions. Make it popoular are much easier if they do not intend to maintain its quality.

But what do they actually mean to do? You can't maintain the quality by talking about fluffy samurai rubbish while creating rules and practices that specifically encourage treating kendo as a sport. The other thing is that this is only in English, if they wrote that sort of stuff in Japanese as an official document they'd be laughed out of town.

It's not history class but kendo do teach many good value from the past and most of them are timeless. exclude these value and kendo is nothing but stick bashing.

I agree with you that the values taught in kendo are timeless, and apply to people in all ages, that's why kendo is still around now. And it's also why those values shouldn't be dressed up as some mystery of the samurai.

Should they be portrayed as values common to all people, if they wish to find them in themselves, or as values that are being passed on to a grateful world by Japan, the holders of the ancient secrets of the samurai?

Being around the people who portray these views, you will find there is an undercurrent that only Japanese will ever be the leaders in the kendo world, and the way they justify this is using that kind of language. Japanese culture has an obvious influence on kendo, and I don't think it should be denied or overplayed.

[KenShi_JoB]

Eventhough I do not completely agree with you. Your answer give many new insight. Thank you.



True, but I don't think the important parts of kendo come from the past. Kendo's roots come from the samurai age, and I'm not saying we should deny that influence to some extent. But kendo was mostly developed long after the samurai had ceased being a force in society, and many (most) aspects of kendo were developed in the last 100 years at the earliest. To think they reflect much about real samurai values is a bit of a stretch. This is why the AJKF's official history of kendo mentions virtually nothing about shinai kyogi, because modern kendo owes much more to it than they would like to admit.


I fail to see how those traits are only samurai values. Kendo is about values, but why dress them up with the 'mystery of the samurai' stuff? Why should you pay respect to things because they are supposedly 'a samurai's sword/clothes/etc.', and not because they are worthy of respect in their own right?


But what do they actually mean to do? You can't maintain the quality by talking about fluffy samurai rubbish while creating rules and practices that specifically encourage treating kendo as a sport. The other thing is that this is only in English, if they wrote that sort of stuff in Japanese as an official document they'd be laughed out of town.

I agree with you that the values taught in kendo are timeless, and apply to people in all ages, that's why kendo is still around now. And it's also why those values shouldn't be dressed up as some mystery of the samurai.

Should they be portrayed as values common to all people, if they wish to find them in themselves, or as values that are being passed on to a grateful world by Japan, the holders of the ancient secrets of the samurai?

Being around the people who portray these views, you will find there is an undercurrent that only Japanese will ever be the leaders in the kendo world, and the way they justify this is using that kind of language. Japanese culture has an obvious influence on kendo, and I don't think it should be denied or overplayed.

[mingshi]

The quote from Takeuchi and the 'spirit of the samurai' bollocks certainly leaves one in doubt that the AJKF/IKF has any idea about how to keep kendo relevant to people in today's world.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that paragraphy of history from Takeuchi is more directed to the "Kendo is Originally from Korea" misunderstanding earlier on.

I personally think that the samurai/bushi reference is part of their rhetoric expression. Much like the way people put the meaning of the hakama pleats , or explain reigi in the dojo....

[Lazken]

intresting read :D