The Last Samurai

[ben]

Tom "I am a cad and a bounder" Cruise is apparently shooting chanbara flick (the genre, not the sport) in NZ at the mo. Does anyone here know anyone involved in the production (extras/ consultants/whatnot)?

I can't imagine what his swordsmanship will be like. Very short and jerky probably.

b

[Ares2907]

lmao

[aru-ma]

go here ben:
The last Samurai (http://us.imdb.com/Credits?0325710)
I'm going to watch this just to see what it looks like, I'll probably waste my $11.50 though.
:p

Probably see you in otsuka if your still around:)

[ShÖgun]

check tom trying to make it happen, i kinda curious how he handles the sword



http://images.countingdown.com/images/countdowns/movies/567538/1011/2752223_main.jpg

[Will]

Actually, I do know one of the extras....

My brother's friend when he was a freshman and sophmore (~8 years ago) in high school is going to be a peasant with his cousin. I learned this because last week I found out that the cousin is the son of one of the older members at my dojo by coincidence when the older member asked me if i knew his sister-in-law's family b/c we lived in the same town. I just thought that was interesting cause it's like, whoa small world.

I also saw on access hollywood that tom is practicing for the movie by "buying a sword and swinging it around"

[aru-ma]

Originally posted by Will
I also saw on access hollywood that tom is practicing for the movie by "buying a sword and swinging it around"

Really? that's nice to know, hope he gets his fingers cut off:p, just joking.

but thats the thing with hollywood or movies in general isnt it? they're focusing more on the screen value (whether it looks good on screen or not) rather than the correct way of perfoming it. personally I dont think its wrong, although I dont like it. In the end they're making a movie not practicing budo.

[Confound]

Don't remind me of that ugly hasso that Qui-gon jin does. Please. . . (No offense, Ares. I like Star Wars, in fact Qui-gon is my second favourite Jedi, but still.. He has too many 'Ns' in his name.)

c

[Raiza]

I like this photo.

http://www.comingsoon.net/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Action/The_Last_Samurai&image=lastsamurai4.jpg&img=&tt=

[angryshinai]

I like this photo.

http://www.comingsoon.net/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Action/The_Last_Samurai&image=lastsamurai4.jpg&img=&tt=


LOL must be lesson No1 for Tom... chudan no kamae :)

[D'Artagnan]

"In the end they're making a movie not practicing budo" -dorkusmaximus

I have to say i totally agree. the fact is, the reality of combat is not aesthetically pleasing, nor is it meant to be. Hollywood films on the other hand have a sole purpose to be entertaining. i can appreciate that kendoka view sword fighting movies in a different way than the average joe public, this being because they tend to have a better idea of what 'real' combat is all about. unfortunatley though most people want to see unrealistic fight scenes that last half an hour than realistic ones which last half a minute.

at least thats what i think.

A

[Phlebas]

"unfortunatley though most people want to see unrealistic fight scenes that last half an hour than realistic ones which last half a minute." -- D'Artagnan

This is so true. It's all part of storytelling vs. reality, and if there was no difference nobody would read a book or watch a movie... in fact, if there were no difference, there would BE no books or movies. (shudder) Telling a story is all about verisimilitude, not the cold hard truth. There has to be some escape, right? The truth can get heavy after a while, and a good story has long been a place where people run after a hard day's work. If we wanted truth, we'd just keep on working.

What irks me is when a complete mock-up carries the label of "true story" whether it's implied or in the sub-title (see "Braveheart" then read the history), but that doesn't seem to be the case here... but I could be mistaken. Is "The Last Samurai" an original story or was it done in print or celluloid form before?

Anyway, Raiza's link made me laugh... looks like Tom is trying to defend himself while taking a crap in his pants. In this case, I think a REAL kamae would be far more intimidating and impressive that what he's doing. Then again, I'm forced to admit that if I were fighting someone that struck that pose, I might lose because I would be curling up on the ground in hysterics. :) A good example of the truth being better than imagination, here. Tom just looks silly. But that may only be my "kendoka's eye" view.

[Raiza]

Anyway, Raiza's link made me laugh... looks like Tom is trying to defend himself while taking a crap in his pants. In this case, I think a REAL kamae would be far more intimidating and impressive that what he's doing.

That was my impression when I posted the link. There was a guy who visited my old dojo awhile back and he got reamed out in front of everyone by Sensei for doing chudan no kamae with his hips rotated like that. The other guy in the pic doing a real McCoy chudan no kamae impressed me though. Too bad we couldn't see HIM from the front, argh. I'm going to be paying a lot more attention to the swordwork and overall hara of the Japanese cast than Tom (Look at me! I can glare!) Cruise.

[Neil Gendzwill]

In defense of Tom, his back is relatively straight and relaxed and his grip is more or less OK. This is in direct contrast to most movie swordwork [cough]starwars[cough] where the actors have the patented terrified grip-o-death and the hunched shoulders.

[mingshi]

Forgive Tom Cruise. Afterall he's just a beginner :p

[Nishi]

After you watch the movie, you may find the scene calls for a poor kamae..mabye its Tom's first class..who knows whats going on here.

[aru-ma]

Just trying to be fair to tom cruise for a bit here, I dont know about most of you but I havent seen the entire clip of that part, he might just finished standing up from the ground after getting knocked around a couple of times, who knows :)

[Phorest]

Personally....I think its great that somebody wants to sorta re-ignite the Samurai genre! And the fact that somebody as bigname as Tom Cruise is in it is only going to help. When was the last good Samurai movie? Dare I say Kurosawa? I hope this gets more people interested in Japanese swordsmanship, at the least. If there is actual authentic stuff in it, I will be even happier.

But...I know I shouldn't go with any of my friends to see it cause I'll be like "Oh man that is so not how you really do it" :mad2: But I think I'll enjoy watching it anyways.

[Raiza]

In defense of Tom, his back is relatively straight and relaxed and his grip is more or less OK. This is in direct contrast to most movie swordwork [cough]starwars[cough] where the actors have the patented terrified grip-o-death and the hunched shoulders.

Ippon. I shudder at the prospect of sitting through Ep 3 for that reason.

Anyhow, Tom has claimed to have taken kendo for 8 months. I have no idea where.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com/f/uc/c/cruise_tom_on_the_set_of_the_last_samurai.html

[aru-ma]

Anyhow, Tom has claimed to have taken kendo for 8 months. I have no idea where.[/url]

The same thing with Arnold Schwarzenegger when he did conan the barbarian, seriously I'm not joking, on the DVD production notes it said that he did kendo for several months for the movie. But Cruise doing kendo for 8 months? he might actually know a thing or two.

Slightly of the topic, do you think there will be an increase in the number of people interested in doing kendo after the movie's actually released? ala star wars.

[etherknot]

All things considered and the crap-in-your-pants-kamae picture. I think it will be an interesting movie to watch for many reasons. Including trying to contain all sorts of giggly snickers over some of Tom's forms. The filming locations and costume designs all look really nice and lush from what I've seen in the trailer ( http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/the_last_samurai/ ).

Lots of movies have had some of their actors semi-lectured on Kendo. SW EP1 had Nesson and McGregor learn a little bit. Which of course, being actors, promptly forgot everything they were taught and took up funky hasso positions and made a plethora of humming sounds while holding their lightsabre hilts. But Jedi are allowed to do that. You know you would if you were in their position ;)

I think it will probably get a few people "interested" in kendo. Probably mostly those people who see it in a movie and think "cool I could be a sword carrying ninja!" only to drop out later when they find out otherwise. It certianly doesn't seem to be geared towards kids which might mean we see a slightly more, adult interest. Who knows!

Anywho. This movie did get mentioned idly in our dojo a few months ago. I think I will mention it in a few months and maybe a few of us will go and see it. In our hakama and gi. Heh heh. Wouldn't that be a sight to behold in the movie theater's lobby?

[John W]

It's odd but little NZ has been the centre of attention, what with Lord of the Rings and the Last Samurai.

I had no part in the Last Samurai but I did sell 3 fax machines to the 2nd Unit Production Manager of LOTR when they were filiming near our town. (The shot they took near where I live was when Frodo and the rest of them came out of the Mines of Moria taken on top of Mount Owen). Elijah Wood and Orlando Bloom came into town one Sat night and played a bit of pool. Funny thing was nobody paid them much attention.

The media love it of course. The LOTR premiere will be in the NZ capital Wellington in December with Return of the King.

All I can say about the Last Samurai is that my tax money paid for the Prime Minister to meet up with Tom Cruise so they could talk about the film!

[hamish]

There was a guy who visited my old dojo awhile back and he got reamed out in front of everyone by Sensei for doing chudan no kamae with his hips rotated like that.

Interestingly, you'll find a lot of koryu with a chudan, or seigan, kamae that has the hips on an angle to some extent, rather than the un-natural kendo stance that we think is the norm nowadays.

You see actors whose stances are a lot worse than Tom's in Japanese samurai movies all the time, too, so he doesn't seem to be doing too badly for a Hollywood actor.

[Nishi]

rather than the un-natural kendo stance that we think is the norm nowadays.


Un-natural?? If anything I thought modern kendo stance would be more practical in terms of effecient attacking.

Can you elaborate a little?

[dorkusxmaximus]

Tom has the "swordmaster" from Gladiator to choreograph all the fight scenes in the Last Samurai.I liked the fight scenes in Gladiator, so it should be interesting :smiley:

[Nishi]

I read the other day in the paper that Tom had 8 months to master the sword...hehehe that IS funny....im going to take up acting lessons to compliment my kendo :D

[SirFingerLickin]

I talked to a friend of mine about the fight scenes in SW, and he said their using Chinese broadsword techniques. I agree with what everyone else has said. It is too flashy, and from the looks of it, it looks ineffective. OTOH, I'm not all too knowledgable about Chinese vroadswords techniques, so I cant really say.

Just my $.02

[Raiza]

This is MUCH better...here's the link to a BIG trailer that shows some more swordwork from several people. Tom's not too bad and there's ample shots of him getting his butt whooped during his initial encounters with the samurai, so there's the attempt at realism there. There's also a clip in there of him doing the suburi (the name of which escapes me) where one cuts to the front, turns and cuts behind. A bit heavy and compact, but a nice step up from the very awkward kamae that I provided a link to earlier.

http://media.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/lastsamurai/clip_hi/clip_a.mov

[emitbrownne]

I like this photo.

http://www.comingsoon.net/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Action/The_Last_Samurai&image=lastsamurai4.jpg&img=&tt=

Bear in mind Cruise is playing a european. The style at the time for europeans was very foil or Sabre based. Hence the bastard stance which is a cross between Sabre en guard (sorry to all salle members.. my terminology sucks) and chudan no kamae.

Ive seen Epee students who have tried kendo.. do something quite similar, especially when tired.

[slidercrank]

Bear in mind Cruise is playing a european.

I thought he was an ex-American officer in Civil War...

[Raiza]

I thought he was an ex-American officer in Civil War...

Correct me I'm wrong, but weren't all officers in the American Civil War equipped and trained with sabres? That would fit well with emitbrowne's suggestion regarding attempted kamae by those trained in Western fencing.

[Old Warrior]

"I've seen Epee students who have tried kendo.. do something quite similar, especially when tired."

I didn't know anyone was watching.

[emitbrownne]

I thought he was an ex-American officer in Civil War...

Sorry I made an assumtion.. Ive not read the synopsis of the film.

I will do though... :smiley:

[samurai999]

I'll reserve judgement until i see the movie. Looks ok from what i see so far. Remember that people in movies are actors. They don't do "perfect stances or perfect swings". But it is sorta funny in a way. :D

Tim

[Jagaimo]

After you watch the movie, you may find the scene calls for a poor kamae..mabye its Tom's first class..who knows whats going on here.

Those were my thoughts exactly. From what I heard about the movie, he is a foreigner (duh) teaching the imperial soldiers on how to use guns to eliminate the remaining samurai. But then he gets captured by the enemy and then learns Bushido and all that fun stuff.
Course, if this is based on real history, I heard that there was a great battle with samurai vs riflemen and, just by chance, it rained. Jee, wonder who won...

There was an artical on www.japantoday.com about the movie.

[Paburo]

so much of a hassle, at the end the realism of battles don't really make up for the quality of a movie.

take gohatto for instance. very nice fight scenes, but the movie is fairly bad in my opinion.

i just hope this movie is worth it, even if the kenjutsu scenes are not ultra koryuu realistic.

[Raiza]

I like this photo.

http://www.comingsoon.net/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Action/The_Last_Samurai&image=lastsamurai4.jpg&img=&tt=

I just got back from the Niten Ichi Ryu Seminar in Guelph. That kamae he's using is an approximate mirror image of the mojigamae (sp?) posture that we learned this weekend. The sword is held at a different angle, sort of diagonally in front of the body while Tom's appears straight from this angle. You can step forward and cut really fast from it because the hips are rotated in such a way that you use the stored energy from the tension to bring yourself forward and cut/parry by cutting downward, thrusting forward, etc. Hyaku can provide you with a better explanation as his experience with Niten vastly exceeds my own.

I retract my previous statements regarding this kamae. This movie is going to be a lot more faithful to technique than I originally thought it would be.

[JSchmidt]

I'm amazed by all the conclusions you guys can make about that movie from a single frame :)..he could easily be moving from one position to the other.

Jakob

[Raiza]

Anyone here know the criteria for creating a production still? The stills I've seen occur during pauses, not right in the middle of an action scene with the actors moving around a lot. Or maybe I should get out more. ;)

[Paburo]

like the cat in your avatar?

[Jagaimo]

I just got back from the Niten Ichi Ryu Seminar in Guelph. That kamae he's using is an approximate mirror image of the mojigamae (sp?) posture that we learned this weekend. The sword is held at a different angle, sort of diagonally in front of the body while Tom's appears straight from this angle. You can step forward and cut really fast from it because the hips are rotated in such a way that you use the stored energy from the tension to bring yourself forward and cut/parry by cutting downward, thrusting forward, etc. Hyaku can provide you with a better explanation as his experience with Niten vastly exceeds my own.

I retract my previous statements regarding this kamae. This movie is going to be a lot more faithful to technique than I originally thought it would be.

I hear that there are a lot of different stances in japanese sword fighting. Anyone ever play as Mitsurugi in Soul Calibur 2? Tom's stance and Mitsurugi's beginning stance are very similar. Think that's a coincidence?

It's sometimes good to keep an open mind. Now I know. And knowing is half the battle. ;)

[AlexM]

like the cat in your avatar?
Dude.... I wouldn't mess with Mr.Kitty if I were you. :D

[kendokamax]

Dude.... I wouldn't mess with Mr.Kitty if I were you. :D

thats Miss Kitty

[eKenshi]

why find tom to do Last Samurai?,it looks odd on T.V i bet.(forgive me,i have been watching to much Musashi :old_man: on NHK)

[Raiza]

Actually, it's Mr. Kitty. There wasn't enough space to put "doesn't mess with Mr. Kitty" as in "Raiza doesn't mess with Mr. Kitty". Mr. Kitty is a pet name (arr, that's bad) for my BIG cat. Don't mess with him either. He's pretty staunch.

Nice to see you back, Paburo. I was starting to miss the sakeholic vagabond...

[kendokamax]

Actually, it's Mr. Kitty. There wasn't enough space to put "doesn't mess with Mr. Kitty" as in "Raiza doesn't mess with Mr. Kitty". Mr. Kitty is a pet name (arr, that's bad) for my BIG cat. Don't mess with him either. He's pretty staunch.

Nice to see you back, Paburo. I was starting to miss the sakeholic vagabond...

ya well i think your wrong. this is clearly a Miss Kitty on your picture

[AlexM]

ya well i think your wrong. this is clearly a Miss Kitty on your picture

Like I said.... Don't mess with Mr.Kitty man... it can only lead to bad mojo.

[AlexM]

I wasn't kidding when I said don't mess with Mr. Kitty...

Now is'nt that the cuttest thing... in an NRA sort of way.

[Eldritch Knight]

why find tom to do Last Samurai?,it looks odd on T.V i bet.(forgive me,i have been watching to much Musashi :old_man: on NHK)


Musashi is the man! That show rocks.

[A P]

Tom Crusie??? Did I even spell out his name right? I don't know and I don't

care.

But come on mannnn!!! "Tom Crusie" the last samurai. The world is going to

end.

[chevreuil]

I already saw the movie at a premiere and believe or not the movie is really good, altough most people believe the story focuses on Tom Cruise but it doesnt. The last samurai is actually the other guy in the movie Katsumoto is his name if im not mistaken...Anyways everyboy should go see it, and for people that do kendo i guess you all know that modern kendo is a sport, u cannot compare kamae,waza and such to a life or death situation in the battelfield...what im saying is you shouldnt expect to see KENDO in the movie...just my 2 cents.

[shangrila]

i saw the premiere of "the last samurai" last night here in sacramento, california. it was awesome!!! one of the best films i have seen this year. it will be available to the public in dec 5... a must-see film!


Tom "I am a cad and a bounder" Cruise is apparently shooting chanbara flick (the genre, not the sport) in NZ at the mo. Does anyone here know anyone involved in the production (extras/ consultants/whatnot)?

I can't imagine what his swordsmanship will be like. Very short and jerky probably.

b

[shangrila]

you are right, the movie was focused on Katsumoto. i believed Katsumoto's character was based in the life of Saigo Takamori, i'm not sure, i might be wrong. others might focused on Capt Nathan Algren because Tom Cruise was playing his part. but i think Katsumoto overshadowed him. Ken Watanabe was perfect for the role of Katsumoto. Ujio played by Hiroyuki Sanada showed skills in using the sword.
the movie is great, there is something historical on it. for people who like Samurai or Japan...you should not miss this movie.


I already saw the movie at a premiere and believe or not the movie is really good, altough most people believe the story focuses on Tom Cruise but it doesnt. The last samurai is actually the other guy in the movie Katsumoto is his name if im not mistaken...Anyways everyboy should go see it, and for people that do kendo i guess you all know that modern kendo is a sport, u cannot compare kamae,waza and such to a life or death situation in the battelfield...what im saying is you shouldnt expect to see KENDO in the movie...just my 2 cents.

[Nanbanjin]

I like this photo.

http://www.comingsoon.net/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Action/The_Last_Samurai&image=lastsamurai4.jpg&img=&tt=

They seem to be using bokken so I guess they are training. Maybe this is one of his earlier lessons. Could someone who has seen the movie elaborate?

[Inouye02]

Mizobe Sensei from Westside kendo Dojo was a extra in the movie.

you can contact him in the westside kendo forums ...

[Old Warrior]

We braved last night's blizzard in northern New Jersey to see the film. It was one of the most powerful films I've ever seen. The sword combat scenes were absolutely remarkable. You get the impression that survival was mostly a matter of luck, despite the effort spent training. Given the crush of humanity, the confusion of battle and the variety of weaponry, it struck me that good karma would have been more helpful than consummate skill. You were given a taste of the training and how much effort it took to develop the skill, but in battle, with the enemy all around you, it would have been impossible to defend against unseen attacks.

The movie is a must see.

[litige]

the movie is out??

[tango]

i thought the movie did a pretty good job of capturing the samurai spirit..
i loved the scene when the two boys are training and tom cruise's character winds up getting his ass whipped by the one samurai. again. and again. and again. the concept of kokoru was pretty good there, i thought..

but aside from that, there were minor things that caused me to not really enjoy it as a movie.. such as, i didn't like the fact that katsumoto spoke almost perfect, unaccented english. i MORE didn't like the fact that i didn't know how he was able to speak perfect, unaccented english. ... i dunno.. just kinda irked me a little bit.. poor character development..

movie seems to be getting mixed reviews from what i've read so far..

i thought the movie was almost a kinda sorta quasi japanese version of braveheart, but i thought braveheart was much, much better...

just an opinion.

[Shazzanzzz]

Last samurai wasn't that good of a movie... Breaveheart and Gladiator is way better. Tom Cruise looked pretty goofy in the movie, i think he was supposed to be, kinda funny.
The movie would have been much better if they made the bad guy side more likable, like they had a reason to do the things they were doing. I mean, it wasn't as simple as the bad guys were just trying to get rid of all the samurais is it? They should have made it look like they believed what they did would hepl japan a lot more than holding onto their old beliefs. They never showed much of the reasons why the bad guys were acting like they were. That would have led to a bigger moral struggle for tom cruise for which side to choose to fight on and stuff, would have made a MUCh better movie this way.

[Old Warrior]

"... i didn't like the fact that katsumoto spoke almost perfect, unaccented english. i MORE didn't like the fact that i didn't know how he was able to speak perfect, unaccented english. ... i dunno.. just kinda irked me..."

I thought the point was that Kasumoto, although a traditional Japanese Saumrai, without western education and access to its technology was a "brilliant" man with a highly inquisitive mind. I found it more astounding that Algren supposedly mastered Japanese. Also, no 1860's cavalry officer would have had the hand to hand combat skills that Alrgen was shown to possess, at the outset. He fought incredible well in unarmed combat (in the first battle scene) and that struck me as very unlikely.

Braveheart didn't move me much as a film. Perhaps the period and culture portrayed were just not inviting to me. Everyone in the film seemed dirty while the Japanese people and the countryside were just so inviting that it left me with urge to want to visit. Hey, your opinion is worth as much as mine. But some day, I'd like to own the video.

[Ryukyu]

Last samurai wasn't that good of a movie... Breaveheart and Gladiator is way better. Tom Cruise looked pretty goofy in the movie, i think he was supposed to be, kinda funny.
The movie would have been much better if they made the bad guy side more likable, like they had a reason to do the things they were doing. I mean, it wasn't as simple as the bad guys were just trying to get rid of all the samurais is it? They should have made it look like they believed what they did would hepl japan a lot more than holding onto their old beliefs. They never showed much of the reasons why the bad guys were acting like they were. That would have led to a bigger moral struggle for tom cruise for which side to choose to fight on and stuff, would have made a MUCh better movie this way.
I don't know what movie you saw, but the one I saw, explained that the Japanese government wanted to become more modern in order to become more economically powerful. Plus there was the fact that the Omura character was also in it for personal gain. At one point they even made a point of stating that the Omura family owned the railroads.
But like Old Warrior, I found it extremely powerful and very emotional, much more so than Braveheart. Maybe that's just because we're old guys, I don't know. :nervous:

[Mokoto Shishio]

I found the movie the last samurai to fully move my own heart, and get a feeling for life in Meji. Consise historical methods were taken to capture the era as well as one can, being that this is not the era. I know full well that this being a kendo forum that sword procedures in the movie can be critisized. This being a movie about and with samurai in it one might think that the movie would be about the way of the sword as countless samurai text reffer to it as "The samurai way". It is more a story of the true essance of Bushido and if you can tell me what the true essance is right now you have no idea. Bushido changes day to day, for someones true desires change day to day, as well as someones outlook changes day to day. I found the deeper meaning in the last samurai was stronger than any sword fighting sceen they could have put in it. A quick question for you all. What is the proper way of kendo? We all have a differnt feel to our style. And I myself find knowing only one style proficiantly is good but also a weakness. For if someone else knows your style as well or better than you, take your teacher for example, they may beat you at anytime without much effort. Think on this that is all i ask. I am sorry for posting a message this long I apologize.

[xvikingx]

...BLAH BLAH BLAH...Think on this that is all i ask.

....zzZZzz....

[Shambler]

I liked the movie overall. It conveyed very powerfully the messages it was trying to get across. Yes, it was rather unrealistic in the fact that the samurai group allowed Tom Cruise to live with them, but once that was put out of mind, it was highly enjoyable.

The only part I found hard to hear was the last line by Katsumono, "They're all perfect...", that I only picked up after talking to a couple other people about the movie.

[Shazzanzzz]

I don't know what movie you saw, but the one I saw, explained that the Japanese government wanted to become more modern in order to become more economically powerful. Plus there was the fact that the Omura character was also in it for personal gain. At one point they even made a point of stating that the Omura family owned the railroads.
But like Old Warrior, I found it extremely powerful and very emotional, much more so than Braveheart. Maybe that's just because we're old guys, I don't know. :nervous:

i know all that, but you didn't get my point. I'm saying that if they made the bad guys likable and that they didn't do the things for their own personal gains, but for the good of the nation (so they think), it would have been a better movie. It's just my opinion though.

[Ryukyu]

i know all that, but you didn't get my point. I'm saying that if they made the bad guys likable and that they didn't do the things for their own personal gains, but for the good of the nation (so they think), it would have been a better movie. It's just my opinion though.
I guess I still don't get your point.
Can you name any other movies of this type where the "bad" guys are likeable? That might help me to understand.
As for your point of being good for the nation, what I said earlier about modernizing the country to make them economically more prosperous was being done because they thought it was good for the country.
The most poignant point for me, was the loss of bushido as an identity for a nation. But then, maybe I am just being naive.

[samurai999]

Tom Crusie??? Did I even spell out his name right? I don't know and I don't

care.

But come on mannnn!!! "Tom Crusie" the last samurai. The world is going to

end.

Actually, I was sorta skeptical about Tom Cruise being in the movie at first, but after watching it, I was surprised as to how smooth his "swordwork" was. Thumbs up from me.

Tim

[Sanjuro]

Hm...I watched the trailer and I caught a glimpse of what I thought was a group of samurai practicing kata in a field. Was that what it was?

[Stan]

I saw "The Last Samurai" last night and absolutely loved it. My recommendation to all is to see this film on the largest screen possible to get the full effect of the temples and the plum blossoms (I do not think they were Sakura - Cherry Blossoms). Loved the battle scenes and the fight choreography. I really enjoyed the strained relationship with Algren and the Japanese lady with whom he was living. Watanabe as Katsumoto was awesome.

I have a couple of questions though. First, did they expand on the signifigance of the white tiger from Katsumoto's vision? I know the "White Tiger" prophecied the arrival of Algren but why did he have this vision?

Second, does anyone remeber what was inscibed on his Algren's sword? I was kinda hoping it read White Tiger.

Stan

[Eldritch Knight]

Excellent movie. When all the samurai were lining up to make their last stand, I noticed that some of the clan symbols on their banners were from rival clans (Tokugawa and Toyotomi, though I could be mistaken). I thought that this was a great touch, showing that they united together as samurai one and all.

I always had a slight dislike for Meiji and the Restoration due to his complete annihilating of everything traditionally Japanese (not to mention that he banned kendo), but after seeing the movie, it definetely put a new perception on the Emperor, making him look like he had to do it or else be crushed by the intolerant West. I found that making him seem manipulated was very compelling, especially when he showed strength in the end to keep the old traditions alive (though history says otherwise).

[steliosk]

Interesting how many people enjoyed this film, so here's my take on it.

A disclaimer: I am NOT a fan of Tom Cruise, which almost put me off seeing the film to begin with. :D

I would say that while Zwick professed to be a great fan of Kurosawa and to be greatly influenced, I would concur with what a few critics have said, that this is essentially much more "Dances with Samurai" more than Ran.

There were definite Ran influences (the battle scenes were a dead giveaway there - no pun intended ). Very romanticised notion of war, lacking the grittiness of a lot of Kurosawa's work (the Seven Samurai's battle scenes are ferociously nasty and unromantic). More predictable melodrama and action flick I'd say than any sort of historically accurate or meaningful film. However, it is nice that they did put some work in the accuracy even though I think we'd all agree there could have been more done - and I would venture a guess course it is highly unlikely that a wiry little westerner chiefly trained on firearms would dispatch 4 veteran warriors equipped with spears, halberds and katana simultaneously like in the first battle.

Do not even get me start on the "ninja" please!!!!

I did not think about it, but I did note two or three reviews mentioning that it was somewhat pro-westerner in that it would take a great gaijin warrior to teach the Emperor and the Samurai the values of honour and Bushido.

Any comments or thoughts on that?

Btw, if you go to www.rottentomatoes.com you can see a very large number of reviews, both positive and negative compiled together.

!

[AlexM]

I always had a slight dislike for Meiji and the Restoration due to his complete annihilating of everything traditionally Japanese (not to mention that he banned kendo), but after seeing the movie (...)

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't kendo established POST-Meiji? I think you're referring to the abolishment of the class system in Japan that had put the samurai class at the top of the societal order (sort of taking the place of the mandarins in the Confucian-style hierarchy prevalent, although not totally dominant, in China). There was a law banning the wearing of swords in public (related to class status obviously) established after Meiji. In fact the firearm control law in Japan in still referred to as something like the "Sword and Firearm Control Act"... if I'm not mistaken. But all this doesn't have much to do with kendo. Kendo was banned during the American occupation (there's a reason why the AJKF was established the same year (or a year later) that Japan recovered it's sovereignty.

Maybe they had the teaching of kenjutsu banned? Although I'm unaware of it.

I haven't seen the movie yet. I'm sure it's got great production values and some great action moments. But I can already point to a couple of strange things I've heard:

Tom Cruise was "captured" by the samurai? I thought these guys were known for fighting to the death? Why would they capture? Doesn't sound like it's part of their military culture (of course that might be part of the mythos surrounding the samurai).

The samurai class itself. Let's not forget that by the end of the Edo period most samurai are either no longer fighting or are simply part of the bureaucracy (tax collectors, auditors, etc...). As fun as it is to romanticize the samurai class, these people were fighting to maintain an inherently un-democratic class system. They were fighting for their traditions, but that tradition included being at the top of the social pecking order. Not to mention how reprehensible isolationist policy can be

Come to think of it, I wonder what role the limited Japanese bourgeoisie (that was at the very bottom of the official social ladder) had in the Meiji revolution? (quick reminder: the bourgeoisie (or "business class and professionals" I suppose)is at the heart of the revolutions that happened in the West to usher in the modern era... see the French and American Revolutions or even the repeal of the Corn laws in England). Although there is a theory that says that the nobility in Japan essentially took on the role of the bourgeoisie to jump-start the revolution. I'm rambling....

6 months to become a swordsman? yeah right...

Out of curiosity... How do they explain away the fact that the samurai initially sided with the Emperor to stop the Bakufu (shogunal government) from opening the country to foreigners? The rallying cry of "Long live the Emperor! Expulse the barbarians!" was very popular among the samurai. The fact that the Emperor, having overthrown the Bakufu and now realising that it's either modernization or colonization, embraced an open policy with the West must have been hard to swallow for the samurai.

I do have a question for those that saw the movie: Are the samurai portrayed as being just a tad reactionary over the opening up of the country? I mean, we are talking about ultra-nationalism here.: Hyper-isolationism in fact, people that want nothing to do with the rest of the world. If you read the IKF's "purpose of kendo" statement on their website you'll see how this is completly repudiated by the modern practioners of kendo.

Other movies:

Braveheart was cool (Sophie Marceau... *drool*)... But Mel really overacts. It has my favorite line in all of moviedom: "Is it true we get to kill the English? Excellent!"

Gladiator was fun at first, except you have to suspend all notions of historical accuracy. Marcus Aurelius did not look as old as the actor portraying him (he died in his 50s). NO EMPEROR HAS EVER BEEN IN THE ARENA, CERTAINLY NOT TO FIGHT. That last point just made th movie ridiculous. Plus, they seemed to be killing alot of rather expensive gladiators...

Good samruai flics: Taboo, 7 samurai, Yojimbo, Throne of Blood, etc... None of them required me to think "is that accurate?". Even though I'm sure they must be rife with inaccuracies.

[steliosk]

Yes, it was a little silly. In six months he was able to beat experienced warriors in their own game and speak Japanese pretty fluently.
There was not much explanation of what was going on politically and there was no real reference to Katsumoto's real life model (whose name evades me currently) very complex dealings with the Meiji government. Not particular accurate, my wife enjoyed it a bit, I was mostly appalled at the ridiculous predictability of the whole thing. I probably take my films a little too seriously sometimes. This was a pretty pretentious film, so it deserves the critique :D.

[litige]

I saw taboo....I will never see it again...it's not about "samurai", it's about bushis that are being attracted by this young boy. I didn't expect it, i was really surprised when i began to make love to the other guy...and then he had to cut his head???? not that great if you want to see a about samurai movie, but if you want to see a movie about the love between ones, then this might be good.

[litige]

when i began to make love to the other guy

SSSTTTOOOPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he, not i, he

[steliosk]

SSSTTTOOOPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he, not i, he
Hehehe.
I have never seen Taboo, I think I heard something about it a while ago...

[Kirin]

Koyuki!!



:evolved: :evolved: :evolved: :evolved: :evolved:

[Kiki]

Several of us went on Friday night after practice. One guy was very upset we reminded him it was Hollywood NOT the History Channel. The rest of us enjoyed the movie as good fun. I am sure it will get some Academy nods, especially Mr. Kensaku Watanabe.

[LNGUYEN]

SSSTTTOOOPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he, not i, he

Yeah Right! whatever

[Armstrong San]

Aside from the movie, the real emperor Commodus did actually engage in fights in the Coliseum. He was in several hundred fights in which he never lost. They were staged fights. Nonetheless he did fight in the Coliseum.

Gladiator was fun at first, except you have to suspend all notions of historical accuracy. Marcus Aurelius did not look as old as the actor portraying him (he died in his 50s). NO EMPEROR HAS EVER BEEN IN THE ARENA, CERTAINLY NOT TO FIGHT. That last point just made th movie ridiculous. Plus, they seemed to be killing alot of rather expensive gladiators...

[Armstrong San]

BTW, I liked the movie. The only flaw I found was how believeable was it that Cruise's character picked up Japanese so fast (even for a linguist). Plus I thought the Indian killing flash backs were unnecessary and didnt really add anything to the story.

[steliosk]

Several of us went on Friday night after practice. One guy was very upset we reminded him it was Hollywood NOT the History Channel. The rest of us enjoyed the movie as good fun. I am sure it will get some Academy nods, especially Mr. Kensaku Watanabe.
I must say, I did like Watanabe's performance. There should have been more emphasis on his character and less on the Great White Warrior :grin:.
I may have ended up liking the film more then, also.

[Craig Jones]

..snip..

Second, does anyone remeber what was inscibed on his Algren's sword? I was kinda hoping it read White Tiger.

Stan

It said something to the affect of the warrior who joins the old ways with the new.

[Craig Jones]

Koyuki!!



:evolved: :evolved: :evolved: :evolved: :evolved:


mmmmmmm... koyuki...

[xvikingx]

The Mrs and I went to see it last night. Having someone kick me in the lower back and take the money from my wallet would have been close to the same effect as paying to sit in the theater untill my back started to ache. I thought the movie was fine (besides Tom Cruises overacting) up untill he got captured. From there it steadily moved towards absurdity; hitting it's peak at the end with him barging in on the Emperor. Not to mention answering a question with a question is the pinnacle of bad writting.
"What do you want from me?!" "What do you want for yourself?"
"I want my money and 2.5 hours back!"

[slidercrank]

Second, does anyone remeber what was inscibed on his Algren's sword? I was kinda hoping it read White Tiger.


Here you go.

[heri0n]

anyone know where i can find pictures of the white tiger and koyuki? :D

[Shazzanzzz]

I guess I still don't get your point.
Can you name any other movies of this type where the "bad" guys are likeable? That might help me to understand.
As for your point of being good for the nation, what I said earlier about modernizing the country to make them economically more prosperous was being done because they thought it was good for the country.
The most poignant point for me, was the loss of bushido as an identity for a nation. But then, maybe I am just being naive.

There are a lot of movies, tv series, books that really don't have bad guys. They have people on different, opposing sides that have different ideals instead of clear right and wrong, because there's no such tihng in real life, in most cases. You probably never seen any of these movies, series beacuse the only movies and tv you watch are american. Hollywood is notoriously bad for the must need for a clear good side and bad side. There's nothing wrong with that, they do that on purpose, to make you feel more for the protagonist instead of dividing and confusing your emotions into the opposing sides. But, sometimes, when you don't have a clear good side, there is a lot more drama involved, and makes great stories i think.

Plus, when i saw the movie trailers, that's what they said, they said Tom Cruise now must choose a side to fight for... So, i thought there would be more of a moral struggle in that area.

Also, the movie made me feel like they were trying to say the samurai way is the only right way to live, and westernizing was evil. Felt like they were trying to force that ideal on people, and didn't even really make sense, since, the main character was American. It would have made more sense if they expanded on the fact that the government was trying to get rid of all the samurais and they had to fight to protect their way of life. But, i don't remember they say anything about that. Other than that, many other stuff, i felt like they were jumping from place to place without any bridges in between. Felt that they assumed that we just assumed somethings happened in betwen that made it happen that way too much.

(wrote so many confusing sentences, hope you know what i'm talking about :) )

[samurai999]

In terms of the "Last Samurai" it should be Watanabe's character, but remember that Tom Cruise is the star and therefore, the focus was on him throughout the move and nothing really on Watanabe. Thats what I didn't like about the movie. However, the action scenes were pretty good to me. Hollywood's Hollywood and a movies a movie and I accepted that. I always go into a "reinaction film" reminding myself that Hollywood is involved and that this isn't a documentary. No different for this one.


My 0.02$(US),
Tim

[Kirin]

In terms of the "Last Samurai" it should be Watanabe's character, but remember that Tom Cruise is the star and therefore, the focus was on him throughout the move and nothing really on Watanabe. Thats what I didn't like about the movie. However, the action scenes were pretty good to me. Hollywood's Hollywood and a movies a movie and I accepted that. I always go into a "reinaction film" reminding myself that Hollywood is involved and that this isn't a documentary. No different for this one.


My 0.02$(US),
Tim

I still think Ken Watanabe (not Kensaku) ate up Tom Cruise.
To me, the movie was nothing but Watanabe......
....even 'Bob' was much better of actor than Cruise ....lol


my question... why more cruise's skin than Koyuki's?

[samurai999]

my question... why more cruise's skin than Koyuki's?

Damn Straight!! I'd much rather see hers than Tom Cruise's.. I agree also that Watanabes character, had more impact than Cruises. I was talking more about footage and lines.

Tim

[sminki]

Finally catching up here. Just saw the movie.

Not much to say except that it's okay. I particularly enjoyed the ninja scene which I thought to be a very good depiction of ninjas.

I HATED the cheesy ending. The whole movie would've been SOOOOOOOO much better if they all died on the battle scene without the touchy-feely scene with the emperor at the end.

[sminki]

One more thing. I thought "Bob" was awesome!

[samurai999]

One more thing. I thought "Bob" was awesome!


ya.. Bob kicked ass in the ensuing battles!

Tim

[steliosk]

ya.. Bob kicked ass in the ensuing battles!

Tim
Yes. Bob was good. More Bob, less Cruise would have improved the film greatly.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Finally catching up here. Just saw the movie.

Not much to say except that it's okay.
[snip HYOOGE spoiler re:ending].
It would be customary to not spoil such a big thing, or at least provide warning tags.

[AlexM]

I done see them there sam-yu-rai movie (finally).

It was good, really good. Plenty of mistakes though (costumes from the wrong eras, wearing swords in front of the emperor, Cruise learning swordsmanship between the winter and the spring, not using a box formation to receive a cavalry charge, etc.).

However, what struck me most is that it is really just a caricature of what Westerners think of the samurai. It's the romantic notion of the samurai as the "honorable warrior". They're were samurai beggars, rogues and thieves, bureaucrats, soldiers (with no wars to fight), etc... Plus I am always curious about what they mean by "honour". Is it to follow the emperor? The laws? It's such a subjective notion that people can attach any qualities they want to "bushido".

Ken Watanabe is a superior actor when compared to Tom Cruise: Whose sword work was not really impressive. Even I could see that he was off-balance and that they shifted camera angles during his fight scenes to make the action confused and hide his lack of skill: makes sense that he wouldn't be very competent with a sword though).

I say all this but I really loved the film. It was a good cinematic romp :D But totally lacking in the subtleties of history.

[Karaken]

I done see them there sam-yu-rai movie (finally).

It was good, really good. Plenty of mistakes though (costumes from the wrong eras, wearing swords in front of the emperor, Cruise learning swordsmanship between the winter and the spring, not using a box formation to receive a cavalry charge, etc.).

However, what struck me most is that it is really just a caricature of what Westerners think of the samurai. It's the romantic notion of the samurai as the "honorable warrior". They're were samurai beggars, rogues and thieves, bureaucrats, soldiers (with no wars to fight), etc... Plus I am always curious about what they mean by "honour". Is it to follow the emperor? The laws? It's such a subjective notion that people can attach any qualities they want to "bushido".

Ken Watanabe is a superior actor when compared to Tom Cruise: Whose sword work was not really impressive. Even I could see that he was off-balance and that they shifted camera angles during his fight scenes to make the action confused and hide his lack of skill: makes sense that he wouldn't be very competent with a sword though).

I say all this but I really loved the film. It was a good cinematic romp :D But totally lacking in the subtleties of history.

I guess they wanted to portray "Honor" as an "Integrity". To die for what you believe is right ( except earthly things like money or power ).
The movie was awsome, yes it is a mythical Samurai way - a westerner's point of view. Thinking that the notion of Samurai + Bushido is pretty recent creation for WW II. But the ideal of it isn't such a bad idea.
Also, given the time Cruise had to work with I thought his movement was pretty swift ( Especially when he was decapitating a bad guy one-handed ).
Koyuki(?)'s acting was superb, portrying a tormented soul is never an easy one and it's very easy to over-act. The director should be praise for minimizing the sexual tone between Cruise and Koyuki. That'd been only a distraction and make the whole thing cheap.

Overall, It was very good entertainment. There wasn't a moment I felt sleepy ( this is my way of identifying an entertaining movie BTW ).

Center

[steliosk]

I say all this but I really loved the film. It was a good cinematic romp :D
You are braver than I! :D

[AlexM]

I forgot to mention something before about the movie:

WHERE THE HELL WERE ALL THE TSUBA!!!!

Not a single bokken was adorned with a leather tsuba. Does anyone know why not?

[dorkusxmaximus]

Haha I can answer that one! Because it looks kewl!!! Any objections to that? It's just a movie so chill. I thought it was a good movie. I just wished it had the same ending as the movie Glory. That would've been so much better, but then the masses would hate it.

[sminki]

It would be customary to not spoil such a big thing, or at least provide warning tags.

I didn't think I was giving away that much, but my bad.

[KhawMengLee]

Hmnnn...I'm sure I am gonna like this movie....bar the historical inaccuracy of Cruise's character...this is sorta one of those hollywood U-571 type stories. I'm pretty sure all the military advisors were European. Originally French, then after the Franco-Prussian war, Prussians got the job...a few Brits were there too.

[AlexM]

Haha I can answer that one! Because it looks kewl!!! Any objections to that? It's just a movie so chill. I thought it was a good movie. I just wished it had the same ending as the movie Glory. That would've been so much better, but then the masses would hate it.

I will not chill! I want to know why no one had a tsuba!!!!! Humbug I say! Humbug!

Now "Glory" was a kick ass movie. Man was that a good movie. I still watch it whenever it comes on television. The score was excellent, the movie was more accurate and less of a caricature. The lead was really well played. And man, that one galant rush at the end of the film... priceless. Highly recommended. I liked Last Samurai but the only place it beats out Glory is in the set design and some of the cinematography.

KML mentionned something too... No one would have asked the US for military advice in the 1870's. The Europeans were far more advanced in terms of military technology and doctrine. There's a line where Omura says they brought so and so from x, and so and so from y, etc. And then he says: "(...) and Warriors from America..." That did make me chuckle because the US barely had a standing army at the time and were not known for military power in any sense. But I understand why they did that: Algren's caracter could then have the "Indian Wars" hovering over his head and having an American lead is necessary for the US market. For the record, the main thing the Japanese wanted from the US is trade.

[KhawMengLee]

Now "Glory" was a kick ass movie. Man was that a good movie. I still watch it whenever it comes on television. The score was excellent, the movie was more accurate and less of a caricature. The lead was really well played. And man, that one galant rush at the end of the film... priceless. Highly recommended. I liked Last Samurai but the only place it beats out Glory is in the set design and some of the cinematography.
.


OOOO....Gettysburg was my favourite out of that lot. Glory comes close second...but just the cast in Gettysburg was too cool...

[Karaken]

I forgot to mention something before about the movie:

WHERE THE HELL WERE ALL THE TSUBA!!!!

Not a single bokken was adorned with a leather tsuba. Does anyone know why not?

I don't think Tsuba on a bokken is a normal thing back then. If you see Musashi movies, they don't have any Tsuba on bokkens when he storms other dojos. ( Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing any Tsuba in old Japanese movies )

Center..

[AlexM]

Since when are old samurai movies supposed to be accurate??? :D

There are such things as leather tsuba so the technology for tsuba existed at such a period. Why not use them in the movie? They're used in kendo no kata after all.

Gettysburg cannot hold a candle to Glory. Glory's musical score alone blew away every part of Gettysburg (which was not bad for a TV movie).

[dorkusxmaximus]

I said it before and I'll say it again. The bokken without the tsuba is kewl!

[Hai_hai]

I loved this movie. All the fight scenes were great. I also just Lord of the Rings, Return of the King and I think that The Last Samurai had better "hand-to-hand mega-army" fight scenes.

[Yzakj]

Why doesn't everybody think about this. Let us say that they make a movie, where every fighting style, or stance was totally wrong, you would be dissapointed that they didn't take the time to get things right. So shouldn't that mean that if the more accurate they are in doing things, especially in movies, the better?
For a movie like Last Samurai, they surely would have done a lot of research before actually doing the movie, so perhaps they didn't use tsuba back then.

[Shiro]

Since when are old samurai movies supposed to be accurate??? :D

There are such things as leather tsuba so the technology for tsuba existed at such a period. Why not use them in the movie? They're used in kendo no kata after all.

Gettysburg cannot hold a candle to Glory. Glory's musical score alone blew away every part of Gettysburg (which was not bad for a TV movie).

Isn't that going slightly too much into detail?...... :p

Besides, boken are also used without tsuba now. Look at aikido for example.
It's not the first time I see a boken without tsuba in a movie :p

[D'Artagnan]

WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!

the Last Samurai is a HOLLYWOOD MOVIE!!!!, if you must see something that is INTENDED to be historically acurate, watch a DOCUMENTARY on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL!!!!!!!!

my basic point is that there is a world of difference between entertainment and education, so who cares if he has a tsuba or not, or if he uses the magic pixie crane no kamae, it does not matter.

A

[AlexM]

Yes, it's a Hollywood movie. But I happen to like it when Hollywood actually caters to the higher common denominator rather than the lowest one. They could have made it better and more subtle without losing anything while gaining some authenticity.

And this is from someone who actually liked the film.

We have a theory that the clothing budget got so big that they could not afford to buy tsuba for their bokken.... And if the sleeping pikachu says that it's because it was "kewl" one more time I'll freaking scream! :D

Why did the emperor have to dress is girls clothes and come off as an effeminate wanker?

[dorkusxmaximus]

*cough cough* kewl *cough cough* hahahahha . there's always going to be something we don't like in a movie, so why waste all your energy whining about the tsuba when you can complain about bigger things =P. Don't you watch enough anime to notice that not even the characters use tsubas, alex? I honestly wanted a certain chracter to die in the movie, but that didn't happen! RoARRRRr. Nevertheless, it was a good movie :)

[AlexM]

*cough cough* kewl *cough cough* hahahahha . there's always going to be something we don't like in a movie, so why waste all your energy whining about the tsuba when you can complain about bigger things =P. Don't you watch enough anime to notice that not even the characters use tsubas, alex? I honestly wanted a certain chracter to die in the movie, but that didn't happen! RoARRRRr. Nevertheless, it was a good movie :)

You said KEWL!!!!!!! You must die NOW!!!!! I'm putting a contract out on a sleeping pikachu! Cutest contract killing ever....

Who says I watch anime!!! I may play videogames (have been doing so since Donkey Kong) but I am no anime fanboy!!!! (although I did enjoy the Wings of Honneamise, Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll and Macross Plus). In fact the whole "angsty teenager as main character" gets old once you're no longer a teenager... *sigh*

For the record....Tsubas rock! Although I don't care that they're not in the movie... I just want to know why...
Why?

Why?

Why?

[mingshi]

easy alex... not everyone put a tsuba on for regular practice...

http://www.koryu.com/photos/gamotatsu1.html

...or that they forgot to bring one in... :p

[Paul Kerr]

Alex Wrote: "There are such things as leather tsuba so the technology for tsuba existed at such a period. Why not use them in the movie? They're used in kendo no kata after all."

Possibly because tsuba on a bokken is not necessarily a norm. There are many koryu where the bokken is used without tsuba - TSKSR for one.

[AlexM]

Fine... I'll shut up now about the tsuba.

You guys take all the fun out of pointless ranting on a meaningless subject :D

Especially you Mingshi!

[Paul Kerr]

Aw heck Alex, rant until you're happy - it's what forums are for :)

[Raiza]

Aw heck Alex, rant until you're happy - it's what forums are for :)

And he has such nice rants too...

My opinion of the movie, as if anyone cares: As a movie I didn't like it, despite the gorgeous cinematography and solid performances by Ken Watanabe, Hiroyuki Sanada, and Billy Connolly. Billy couldn't do too much but his presence is most welcome.

The fighting? Not too shabby. Nice grips for most of the scenes although the two sword reversed sword technique is way over my head. Some (read: a lot of) Hollywood grandstanding but I think this is the closest thing to seeing a major American picture feature kenjutsu for some time. Seeing some of the stuff I picked up at a kenjutsu seminar made me feel warm and fuzzy.

The money shot: A beautiful close-up of Sanada's tenouchi right before the hikiwake bokken match. I got a big kick out of that for some reason.

It has ninjas. That's always a plus. And an extremely long cherry blossom blooming season. That's cool too.

[Henry Jones Jnr]

Oh oh Am I too late?. I must say that the Last Samuri wasn't too shabby. I must agree that they should have all died in the end too. Would have given the film more depth. What really cracks me up is that all the battle scenes were just too clean. Obviously the sheep had been working over time and had trimmed the paddocks (Oh oh I'm in the wong country), green fields!!.
they should have let the grass grow etc etc. The stunt horses were excellent!. Marvellous CGI. We have noticed interest in the film coming through the doors to the dojo in the form of enthusastic beginners. I think the worst insult to Kendo was a fighting sequence in the film the Punisher!!.
It's tres diobolique!!!. It's definatley not Kew Gardens!!!!! Oh THAT word again???. :wink:

[Gohanssj]

I dont think Tom Cruise did a bad job on this movie, it is his best movie i think, ive seen it alot lol, i have it on SVCD, its awesome once you start to notice little things in the movie. especially when you can go through the fighting scenes over and over. for the bokkens without the tsuba, i got one, its white oak made in japan, it came with a tsuba but you can slide it off, its a good bokken, perfect balance.

[Caleb]

The boken Miyamoto Musashi carved on his ? duel actually didn't have a tsuba. Iv heard that the Wooden swords we use in kendo actually arn't boken because boken were alot heavier. -Im not sure about that fact- Many of the kenjutsu ryu schools weren't rich eneough for real metal swords, so very many samurai used boken instead of swords. Amazingly, boken could break metal swords in half, and could easily break bones. It goes with the story when Musashi was in the boat carving an oar into a boken, right before his fight with Sasaki. I guess Musashi won, because he lived to write the Book of Five Rings. Just an observation--

[Gohanssj]

Yea quite easily could, its heavier than a actual sword, its to build your strength so real swords dont feel so heavy.

[don_lubo]

You can watch the movie on
http://free.data.bg/loverboy/Moviez/2003/The%20Last%20Samurai/The%20Last%20Samurai%20DivX%20SVCD%20MPT.avi

[Chopstix]

i believed Katsumoto's character was based in the life of Saigo Takamori....
I second that. Some history:

Saigo Takamori (1827-1877) was an important figure in bringing about the Meiji Restoration and was, therefore, an eminent statesman in the newly organised Meiji government. But disagreement with his colleagues led him to resign his post. He retreated to Kagoshima where he established a military academy. Subsequently, urged by his students, he revolted.

In 1877, 10 years after Imperial rule was restored, Saigo Takamori led the ex-samurai of Kagoshima in southern Kyushu in a rebellion, popularly called the Seinan War. It was the most serious rebellion compared to the other samurai rebellions of that time. The rebels were defeated by draftees - commoners - equipped with guns and cannons bought from the West. Takamori disemboweled himself after his defeat.

[muschio]

Personally....I think its great that somebody wants to sorta re-ignite the Samurai genre! And the fact that somebody as bigname as Tom Cruise is in it is only going to help. When was the last good Samurai movie? Dare I say Kurosawa? I hope this gets more people interested in Japanese swordsmanship, at the least. If there is actual authentic stuff in it, I will be even happier.

But...I know I shouldn't go with any of my friends to see it cause I'll be like "Oh man that is so not how you really do it" :mad2: But I think I'll enjoy watching it anyways.
Mmhh... I think that if you are gonna do something, you better do it right or not doing it at all, so...

Have you seen Kamegusha?. GREAT MOVIE, not so new though.

[aru-ma]

Mmhh... I think that if you are gonna do something, you better do it right or not doing it at all, so...

Have you seen Kamegusha?. GREAT MOVIE, not so new though.

kamegusha? turtle what? :D although I think everyone here knows what you meant I'll correct you regardless, it's kagemusha, and yes it's a very good movie.

[watanabe2k]

kamegusha? turtle what? :D although I think everyone here knows what you meant I'll correct you regardless, it's kagemusha, and yes it's a very good movie.]

lol! Kame Gusha! you know the turtle Gusha............

yeah Kagemusha is a great movie, Kurosawa is a genius!

[Raiza]

Bob kicked ass in the ensuing battles!

Here's (http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/04/08/film.japan.artofdying.ap/index.html) some info on Bob aka Seizo Fukumoto.

[[Kensei 剣の聖者]]

Kagemusha was a True epic, however it didnt tackle the "way of life" or philosophy of the samurai like the last samurai did, i really liked the insight into it, but i dont know why they decided to change Takamoris name to "katsumoto"!?!?! and why they had to change history by putting that natha alburn guy there which never really existed or dare i say slightly glorifying the samurai which they did tho, but overall a great film to go by, almost at Korusawa standards... Kagemusha however serves better as a historical epic and displays the plots and intrigues of Sengoku Jidai japan

[Ren Blade]

My favorite character was Ujio.