Gurai-Zume

[DCPan]

Hello,

Anyone care to share their translation on the concept of "gurai-zume" and how to translate that from kata to keiko?

:smiley:

[ben]

"kurai-zume (n.)
A way of slowly closing in on an opponent without actually producing a waza, but by intimidating the opponent with a more spirited posture."
Japanese-English Kendo Dictionary, (c) 1996 AJKF.

Does that tell you anything? :D
I sometimes find that I have performed kurai-zume to no great effect. I suppose in shinai kendo it is no step forward (pun intended) to be able to move in without achieving yuko-datotsu in some way. However in shinken-shobu, the ability to close on your opponent without attacking them or more to the point, without them attacking you, and then control their weapon would be the highest level of skill imaginable.

b

[KenShi_JoB]

"kurai-zume (n.)
A way of slowly closing in on an opponent without actually producing a waza, but by intimidating the opponent with a more spirited posture."
Japanese-English Kendo Dictionary, (c) 1996 AJKF.

Does that tell you anything? :D
I sometimes find that I have performed kurai-zume to no great effect. I suppose in shinai kendo it is no step forward (pun intended) to be able to move in without achieving yuko-datotsu in some way. However in shinken-shobu, the ability to close on your opponent without attacking them or more to the point, without them attacking you, and then control their weapon would be the highest level of skill imaginable.

b

Put the razor sharp blade to their face may have better control of the opponent than shinai IMHO. :)

[DCPan]

"kurai-zume (n.)
A way of slowly closing in on an opponent without actually producing a waza, but by intimidating the opponent with a more spirited posture."
Japanese-English Kendo Dictionary, (c) 1996 AJKF.

Does that tell you anything? :D

Looking up the kanji from the kendo kata book, a "literal" translation of it could be "Cram into space/position".

In particular, this is used to describe shidachi's ire-tsuki and the subsequent kissaki in face action...other instructors have used the words "ki-atari" to refer to the same.

I personally feel that my understanding of seme would improve, if I could carry this concept over to keiko.

FWIW.

[andre]

In the end, having all the definitions worked out may not suffice...

Intense practice will (hopefully) lead to 'reflex' response in a related situation. Practicing Sanbonme (tachi) with the correct mindframe will most likely help.

How does it really work? Well... "don't think, feel... it's like a finger pointing to the moon... don't concentrate on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory!".

Another way of dealing with it is through awareness of 'ki'.

Didn't help much, did I...

Just practice! :)

[andre]

PS: Try reading Sotaro Honda's "Tactics in Kendo part3" parts 2, 2.1 and 2.2.

http://www.kendo.org.uk/articles/tactics/03/index.shtml

Good practice!

[DCPan]

PS: Try reading Sotaro Honda's "Tactics in Kendo part3" parts 2, 2.1 and 2.2.

http://www.kendo.org.uk/articles/tactics/03/index.shtml

Good practice!

Thanks for the link.

What are "sute-waza" and "mise-waza"???

:wink:

[KCGW 03]

Hi,

I've been following the discussions for some time, but this is my first post, so I'll start with an introduction. I've been practicing kendo in the States for about six years now, alternating between NY and DC dojos/dojangs. It's very nice to meet you all.

In my opinion, I think the gurai-zume may simply be another way of saying "keep good center". The image that I got in my head was of one kenshi going into issoku-itto no maai or deeper with very good center and seme. I guess it would be a lot like setting up for a tsuki thrust.

At least, that's what I think it is. I have been trying to polish my center and one of my senseis have also told me that I should try just going in and pressuring my opponenet instead of employing a waza immediately. One of the benefits that I have seen in this is that my opponent (unless he is sensei or sempai) will get scared/anxious and lose his posture and attempt some sort of waza. He will come in, but because he is off center, he will scored a tsuki on himself (he will still get my men or kote). From what I've seen so far, it is very effective.

That one moment of hesitation after you go in allows you to see how good your opponent's kamae is, and how he reacts. It seems most kenshis will try to block (fearing an imminent attack) and expose their kote.

I hope I got it right.

And finally some things that I have been trying to improve my center:
1. Lots of tsubris
2. Hitting small men but not lifting the shinai to hit men until the last moment (about 1/2 in away from tsuki)
3. Practicing tsuki.
3a. Get a small handball, poke a hole through it and attach a piece of string. Then tie the other end of the sting to the ceiling and practice hitting tsuki on the ball. (lots of fun!!)

Hmm. The post ended up a little longer than I expected it to be. Well, I hope that helps in some way, and once again, nice to meet you all.

[Charlie]

Welcome, KCGW! What's a tsubri?

This is an interesting concept. I think I have only seen it in action bewteen combatants of differing levels of experience. The only time I have pulled it off is against a kohai. Hopefully, kohai is ignoring my pressure, my kurai-seme, and attacking anyway. But sometimes I can stifle him or her and discombobulate them. The other times I have seen this, heh, are when it's being performed on me, usually by a shichidan but not always. I have actually seen Tagawa of Detroit bend a godan to his knees simply by holding kamae and pressing in. There was an action - mutual men, I think - but while Tagawa remained ramrod straight, this person wilted beneath and ended up kind of in sonkyo leaning back. It was pretty amazing?

[KCGW 03]

A tsubri is essentially cutting practice. You take a shinai and you practice your cuts/swings. There are variations, like men tsubri, kote tsubri, haya (or choyaku) tsubri (that is fast jumping swings).

Mostly, I practice step motion tsubris to try to improve my seme. I step in, raise as if I were going to hit tsuki, then hit.

Seme is a very important/interesting concept. I think the key behind it is to maintain good center, and not care about the consequences, but to just step in with a great fighting spirit.

[Kirin]

A tsubri is essentially cutting practice. You take a shinai and you practice your cuts/swings. There are variations, like men tsubri, kote tsubri, haya (or choyaku) tsubri (that is fast jumping swings).

Hmmmm.. you mean suburi?
If you are shodan, you should be learning proper kendo terms :wink:

[KCGW 03]

Please forgive me for my gross error. I hope that such a mistake has not misled or had any sort of negative impact on anyone. It was completely idiotic of a shodan to place a "t" in front of "suburi". Try to understand that I must try to translate back and forth from Korean and Japanese and then into English.

However, it would be nice if you wouldn't belittle me by saying such things as, "If you are shodan, you should be learning kendo terms".

[Charlie]

Notice that wink smilie at the end of Kirin's comment? That means he's just teasing you.

You should have fired back with: No, no, "tsubri" is a combination of "tsuki" and "suburi," but maybe you're not ready for that yet.

We must all repair to second dojo to study this further. First round is on Kirin. HAHA!

[Kirin]

DCPan

I had chance to talk with Ota sensei about 位詰め (kurai zume)
It was over 30 mins lecture　（I was his interpreter/driver/travel guide/goofer)
but he emphasized 2 things,
1)縁を切らない (en wo kiranai) not to break a pressure/connection
２）呼吸法 (kokyuuhou) breathing control/technique

Hope this help ~ :wink:


Charlie,
Do you have list of good restraunts/clubs in Ann Arbor?
We will be visiting in July, and we want to go first class :smoker:

[DCPan]

DCPan

I had chance to talk with Ota sensei about 位詰め (kurai zume)
It was over 30 mins lecture　（I was his interpreter/driver/travel guide/goofer)
but he emphasized 2 things,
1)縁を切らない (en wo kiranai) not to break a pressure/connection
２）呼吸法 (kokyuuhou) breathing control/technique

Hope this help ~ :wink:


You are too awesome! :wink:

Now I know the kanji for "en" too!

Please let me know if you are going to be in the area!

:rolleyes:

[Kingofmyrrh]

Thanks for the link.

What are "sute-waza" and "mise-waza"???

:wink:

That would be in 'tactics part two', I believe :wink:

Looking at things merely from a semantic point of view, 'kuraizume' is basically the same as 'ma wo tsumeru'. The former sounds more like the kind of kendo language they used before the war and earlier (which makes sense when you consider when the kata were codified), and the latter is what you'd read in any modern text. As you've discovered, it just means 'close the distance/ma', but of course the trick is in how you do it. Guess you'd better refer to Hiro's post for that one...

[DCPan]

That would be in 'tactics part two', I believe :wink:
...

Don't leave me hanging! :wink:

I just need the kanji...

Does "sute-waza" have the same "sute" as in "sute-mi".

Doesn't "mise" mean "show" or "shop"...i.e. mise-te...misemono.

Curiousity kills DC...

[Kingofmyrrh]

Oh, I see. Well, I can't write Japanese on this computer, but yes, 'sutewaza' means a technique to be discarded, and 'misewaza' is like a technique used for show. I don't think you should get the 'sute' of 'sutewaza' mixed up with the 'sute' of 'sutemi', however. They are indeed the same verb, but in the case of 'sutewaza' it means somthing like a throwaway technique, which is clearly not the same idea. Anyway, it's all in Tactics II at www.kendo.org.uk

[DCPan]

Anyway, it's all in Tactics II at www.kendo.org.uk

Oh...me no can read...that's what you meant by tactics II....

Thanks!

[DCPan]

Tactics II....

Mise-waza huh...that's how the gentleman beat Harada for the AJKC last year...with that sharp kote in the very beginning setting up for the katsugi-men in the end ne?

:rolleyes:

[Kirin]

Mise-waza huh...that's how the gentleman beat Harada for the AJKC last year...with that sharp kote in the very beginning setting up for the katsugi-men in the end ne?
:rolleyes:

Yeah.. you can say this can be mise waza.

For sute waza, ai-kote-men : kote would be sute waza
men-mawari men : mawari men would be also.

mise & sute waza is bit off topic from kurai zume, but all leads to 'en wo kiranai'.
To do that, Ota sensei said just do many kirikaeshi & kakari geiko with proper breathing.
Kirikaeshi, after first men, try to do 9 men with one breath. If you can not, try to breath once inbetween sayuu (Left/right)men. But for straight men after 9th, do not breath. Same for the last men. According to him, it is not good idea to do 2nd men (return men) at the end, 'cause if you have any energy(breath) left to do another men, it won't help learn breath control.

Kakari geiko, start with straight men and end with straight men.
At beginner's level (3-dan below....according to 8 dan sensei), it will be more of uchikomi keiko instead of kakari keiko. So it is motodachi's job when to quit with last GOOD men.

[Kirin]

You are too awesome! :wink:

Now I know the kanji for "en" too!

Please let me know if you are going to be in the area!

:rolleyes:

I do not know when I will be in PNW area.
But I will be due for 4-dan next spring and I want to test with PNKF.
(I need to work on soo many things, but hope I am ready by then)
Unfortunately Southwest does not have enough 6/7-dan up sensei to test our own 4-dan testing.

[Charlie]

Charlie,
Do you have list of good restraunts/clubs in Ann Arbor?
We will be visiting in July, and we want to go first class :smoker:

Oh, great! I hope to meet you there! You know, I have been thinking that I should write a tour guide-type of document for everyone coming to visit.

Most will be staying at a hotel near the freeway with easy access to downtown. The tournament location will also have this. Once downtown, all the good restaurants and bars are within blocks of each other. These include Japanese food, pubs, local microbrews with local food, and cafes. Also, some great stores, head shops (it is a college town, after all) and antique shops, book stores and an arcade and a couple of decent museums. I mean, all within blocks.

I or poster enkorat really should write a "Welcome to Ann Arbor" post. E-mail me with any questions and to introduce yourself if you get time: charliekondek at yahoo dot com.