Synthetically Dyed....?

[Phorest]

I'm wondering, how much would I be "breaking tradition" if I were to buy synthetically dyed vs. indigo dyed gi/hakama. Can you tell the difference? Does indigo really matter? Is it worth it to not have your uniform fade/run?

These are also usually a lot cheaper. Should I go with synthetically dyed cotton or indigo dyed? Someone help!

[Phorest]

Something else to consider...I'll be in college next year doing Kendo. Would keeping an indigo dyed uniform clean be a difficult task in a college setting?

Thanks guys!

[nodachi]

I wash my bogu in a separate bucket by hand so I don't stain any of the things in my apartment and because it is gentler than the washer. You should be able to do that in the bathroom. And getting blue dye all over from spilling, if your gi still bleeds, is much nicer than the other stuff the custodians will find in the bathrooms so I don't think it will be a problem.

[AlexM]

Indigo doesn't stain as far as I know (simple soap gets rid of the blue ring around the bathtub that it leaves behind).

There is but one trick to keeping a nice hakama and gi(whatever they're made out of): When you get back from practice IMMEDIATELY hang up both of them. Fold them properly after you leave practice and unfold them with care a soon as you arrive home. Some people keep their hakama and gi crumpled in a bag for days between practices. Bad. The hakama and gi don't get dry, the pleats in the hakama disapear and the smell is atrocious.

[Phorest]

I'm thinking more along the lines of "breaking tradition".
Is anyone else going to care? Are there benefits to having indigo dye?

[iwatekenshi]

Nodachi,
I don't mean to be condescending but your bogu is your armor. I don't think you want to be washing your bogu in the washer.;)

[AlexM]

Who the hell is going to notice? Nobody goes up and says: "That better be real indigo and pure cotton or you're not practicing tonight. Show me the tag!". If they do that just tell them to go to Hades. It just don't matter. Kendo isn't about what you wear (at least not what materials you wear), if your sensei or senpai doesn't understand that then seriously question their teaching.

[kendokamax]

Originally posted by AlexM
Some people keep their hakama and gi crumpled in a bag for days between practices. Bad. The hakama and gi don't get dry, the pleats in the hakama disapear and the smell is atrocious.

Seriously?

[iwatekenshi]

It's not a question of breaking tradition nobody gives a rat's arse. Get whatever you can afford and wear it until you burn holes into your shoulders of your keikogi and rip the bottoms of your hakama.
FYI The indigo dyed cotton keikogi/hakama just look nicer and last longer. As a beginner though just go to keiko in something you can practice in.

[inner_cent]

Originally posted by iwatekenshi
It's not a question of breaking tradition nobody gives a rat's arse. Get whatever you can afford and wear it until you burn holes into your shoulders of your keikogi and rip the bottoms of your hakama.
FYI The indigo dyed cotton keikogi/hakama just look nicer and last longer. As a beginner though just go to keiko in something you can practice in.

Indigo dye does nto just make it look nice and last longer by the way. It is more "Healthier", and environment friendly than the chemical dye. Indigo dye used normally has this anti-baterial agent in them, also, i find that the smell of the "un-dry" gi/hakama less offending then those with chemical dye (you will notice when you haven't wash your Gi for 6months+ !!!)

But you are right about one thing, price is always a factor when come to purchasing. As a beginner, the norm is buy something cheap because you are not sure you will really like Kendo or not. After you finally Fall in love with kendo, then you might consider to buy something more expensive, and those one with Indigo dye in them.

[alexpollijr]

You know, after some indigo dyed keikogi's, I've came to the following conclusions :

1- Standard Dye is better than indigo dye. With the standard dye you don't get t be a smurf when it's new, and you don't get to look like an old jeans later on when most of the dye has gone away and left only a blue feint.


2- 'Expensive' doesn't mean 'Good'. Sometimes things are cheap and actually very superior to other expensive stuff. A good example of this is that you can get a Single layer keikogi for U$ 15 at KendoShop.com which is a hundred times better than the U$ 75 single-layer indigo dyed keikogi from e-bogu.com.

[Paburo]

i certify that. my friends with their 100-bucks indigo keikogis all ended up blue skinned and looked like yakuzas after keiko. they even smelled funny... indigo with anti-bacterial agent my butt! that's why deodorants and detergents are for.

nothing like the cheap kendoshop keikogi.

[Neil Gendzwill]

To reduce your smurf factor, wash your indigo keikogi with several large handfuls of table salt or a cup of white vinegar. This will set the dye.

The artificially dyed keikogis I've seen haven't looked very nice, but then maybe I haven't seen better ones. I happen to like the look of a worked-in keikogi. I also like the indigo smell.

If you're paying $100 US for a single-layer gi, you're paying too much. The 17-30x gis from Koei are the ones we use, they look nice and are good value: http://www.bogubag.com/Uniforms/Kendo/uniforms_kendo_gi.html

[mark]

Hi Neil,
Do you wash your keikogi
"with several large handfuls of table salt or a cup of white vinegar" everytime, or only the first time?

I have alway set indigo by filling a pail with vinegar and adding a teaspoon of salt and letting it set overnight before rinsing in clean water. I must admit that despite my best efforts I still looked smurfy for a while.
Has anyone used the japaneese indigo dye you buy in bottles from bogu shops to re-dye their faded Keikogi's?
Have fun

[iwatekenshi]

Yes I have used it on my old men but never on my keikogi and hakama. I just let them fade through use.
About the setting the idigo, Japanese rice vinegar does help but it will still run. I'm sure other vinegar will do the same.

[mingshi]

Originally posted by Phorest
I'm thinking more along the lines of "breaking tradition".

Phorest, with the technological development in the modern world, why do we still have to concern over getting cheaper stuff and breaking traditions???

If in any case that'll happen, everyone will be forced to by the TRADITIONAL hand-stitched bogu!!! Holy @#$^!!

As a poor overseas student I do not want to waste too much on this expensive hobby, so I tend to buy the cheapest stuff avaliable in town. My 2 keikogi are of the lowest quailty with syntheic dye. But I always wash them in the washing machine in order to add more "experience" to myself. :D

A piece of cloth won't improve your Kendo's level of comfort much.

[Phorest]

Well I wish I'd read this last night. I went ahead and ordered an indigo set from e-bogu.com after the first few replies.
*sigh*

I noticed that the synthetically dyed gi/hakama on bogubag.com were the same price as the indigo set on e-bogu. So, I went ahead and ordered.

I'm a little worried about the faded-out look of the gi after a while, but I guess I can always re-dye it? We'll see.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by mark
Do you wash your keikogi "with several large handfuls of table salt or a cup of white vinegar" everytime, or only the first time?

Just the first time. Your method of soaking also works. You can repeat the process if it doesn't seem to take. My sensei looks down his nose at all this new-fangled dye setting - according to him, the traditional way is to have a few really hard practices and let the salt in your sweat do the job.

I must admit that despite my best efforts I still looked smurfy for a while.

I think that some people's body chemistry tends to cause the dye to run more than others. Another solution is to buy a double-layer keikogi. The inner layer is dyed differently and doesn't run. Also, they are usually better quality overall, are cut better and just generally feel better. I don't wear single layer keikogi anymore, and most of the senior people in my club don't either. Maybe I'd feel different in a hotter climate than the Canadian prairies.

As far as whether traditional materials are best - I think they are, and I also just like them. It's part of what makes kendo kendo for me. I suppose we could all wear polypropelene sweat-wicking keikogi and bogu made from carbon-fibre and sorbothane - it would probably be cheaper and work better, but something important would be lost. I foresee this happening if ever kendo ends up in the Olympics - bogu made by Nike, and every last ounce of soul sucked out of kendo.