Need or want...

[Kaede]

What is the most important factor for you when you are considering a new bogu? For example: You have looked upon your needs and found that you actually don't need more than a 5mm Korean made bogu. You have a budget that easily could buy you at least a 3mm. What would you get? The 5mm or the fancier one?

In my case the want is always bigger than my budget... :ermm: :p

I have actually tested my need at a lady's kendo camp. I used a worn out 8mm Japanese bogu and managed to get through the weekend without a single bruise. Ordinary training is another matter... Male or tall kendokas hit harder...but then again, need or want. There are men pads and kote guards.

What leads you? Need or want?

//Curious K

[Commander]

For me, it has to be looks and budget, value for money :)

[tantadi]

I asked the different bogumakers about what they though I needed as a beginner, and bought bogu from the one that didn't try to sell me something expensive. If their cheapest sets doesn't measure up for a beginner, what does that say about overall quality?

[Michael_St_A]

I know people who have spent thousands on their bogu and it is exactly like they want it to be. That's great. And those sets look fantastic, too.

I thought I would be very envious and would start saving my lunch money for something similar but it has not happened.

My bogu is fairly good entry level quality and it does what it needs to do and I am happy with it.

At some stage I bought a new pair of kote. That's all.


So - for me - it is what I need not what I could afford.

:-)

[LarsCW]

What is the most important factor for you when you are considering a new bogu? For example: You have looked upon your needs and found that you actually don't need more than a 5mm Korean made bogu. You have a budget that easily could buy you at least a 3mm. What would you get? The 5mm or the fancier one?

In my case the want is always bigger than my budget... :ermm: :p

I have actually tested my need at a lady's kendo camp. I used a worn out 8mm Japanese bogu and managed to get through the weekend without a single bruise. Ordinary training is another matter... Male or tall kendokas hit harder...but then again, need or want. There are men pads and kote guards.

What leads you? Need or want?

//Curious K

The one in the beginner class I am in that hits the hardest of all is the shortest of the lady's.

We do this exersize at end of class that 3 keep their shinai on men height and then the whole class makes 3 men-uchi.
I am one of those tall guys and I have been working last classes on hitting less hard which other students also told has worked off as I was hitting way too hard at start.

[Kaede]

The one in the beginner class I am in that hits the hardest of all is the shortest of the lady's.

We do this exersize at end of class that 3 keep their shinai on men height and then the whole class makes 3 men-uchi.
I am one of those tall guys and I have been working last classes on hitting less hard which other students also told has worked off as I was hitting way too hard at start.

:) There is a differens between "hitting hard" and "to club someone over the head". Nothing wrong in hitting hard with good technique. It's a plus during shiai... Actually good technique often leads to fast hard/whip-like cuts. In truth it's most often the "bad" cuts that makes the most bruises...

Keep up the good work! // K

[joekc6nlx]

Given that you have the same amount of money to spend, my feeling would be that you get the better quality, even though it takes all of the money you've saved. If you were to buy a car, and then afterwards, realized you could have had a sunroof, CD player, turbocharger, and leather seats for no extra cost, how would you feel?

Ah, it's early, perhaps I'm missing the point......

[Okami]

Man kan ju ta mellanvägen och köpa en 4mm. ;) Dollarn är ju väldigt svag nu så att passa på och köpa lite bättre grejjer e nog ingen dum idé. Skillnaden mellan 5mm och 4mm på kendoshop.com är $51 vilket motsvarar ca. 360:- klart värt det i min mening.
Ett annat bra tips är att köpa t.ex. 5mm do och tare och 3mm kote och men. Eftersom de senare slits mycket mer så kan det vara trevligt att ha kvalité på dem.


And in english for our international audience ;) :
You could always take the middle road and buy a 4mm. ;) Since the dollar is very weak right now it might not be a dumb idea to take the chance to buy some better stuff. The difference between 5mm and 4mm at kendoshop.com is $51 which translates to appr. 360 swedish kronor.
Another good tip is to buy for example a 5mm do and tare and 3mm kote and men. Since the latter are subject to more wear and tear it might be nice to have good quality ones.

Hehe...I would do it in japanese as well but I don't have the time. ;) Anyways, hope it helps! =)

[Alan03]

For me, it's both need and want. I wanted/needed a set of bogu that would last for a long while so I opted for the one with the higher price tag.

[Yo...osh!]

Um...interesting question need or want...

Some of my club members use the cheap Korean 4mm sets. I ask them whether it fits well, protects well...does it hurt etc. They say it's fine, no problems.

But I guess they haven't used the better quality stuff....I mean once I tried on my friend's Japanese handstitched bogu. It felt so comfortable...really well padded yet soft...I didn't wanna take the men off!
So ignorance is bliss! Once you are exposed to high quality bogu....your "want" could slowly turn into "need"!

[Kaede]

And in english for our international audience ;) :
You could always take the middle road and buy a 4mm. ;) Since the dollar is very weak right now it might not be a dumb idea to take the chance to buy some better stuff. The difference between 5mm and 4mm at kendoshop.com is $51 which translates to appr. 360 swedish kronor.
Another good tip is to buy for example a 5mm do and tare and 3mm kote and men. Since the latter are subject to more wear and tear it might be nice to have good quality ones.

Jepp, I agree that the differens in price between 5mm and 4mm is neglectable when it comes to an investment like this. :) Personally I'm aiming for Chiba bogu kote and men sometime in the future. I'm just a bit unsure of what I should invest in the "base" so to speak. At the moment I am using a borrowed 4mm that workes very well. *sigh* large investments like this has too many options!

K

[Neil Gendzwill]

Someone will jump in here and comment on show-off stuff, but nobody, and I mean nobody, ever regrets dropping more coin on their kote. If you have extra money, buy the best kote you can afford.

[Commander]

Someone will jump in here and comment on show-off stuff, but nobody, and I mean nobody, ever regrets dropping more coin on their kote. If you have extra money, buy the best kote you can afford.

I take it thats because it hurts and you need the best impact absorbing kote?

[Lazken]

pain is your friend ... (right? not in bogu yet so its easy for me to say :p)

[tokon]

for me the 1st and most important question is: "how much can I pay/afford!?"

it´s the privotal fact for taking the right decision. bad idea owing money to somebody only for buying a better bogu ;-)

after that it´s very personal....for me getting the best bogu for my money! you will wear it the next 5-8 years at least. i don´t want to buy every second year a new bogu, just because it got weak.

well, when I got the permission to buy my own bogu. i decided to buy the best machine stitched bogu (2mm) from kendoshop. they´re cheaper than japanese bogu (tozando, ...) or other suppliers (e-bogu, eurobogu ...) at least high quality bogu (sufficiant for a beginner) for less money for the next 5 years. after that period oneself can think about buying a better one. but then you will exactly know what you want and what you need.
2,5mm / 3 mm would have been sufficiant enough, and they are cheaper than 2 mm, but I got the money! ....the circle is closing! ;-)

[Commander]

pain is your friend ... (right? not in bogu yet so its easy for me to say :p)

Umm not sure, i hate pain sometimes someone hits me (one person in particular) thats really sore that i can feel my teeth vibrate lol

As for kote i had to get a 2.5mm and i still feel pain! :(

lol

[Lazken]

thank god for wrist protectors?

[Commander]

What kote?

[Kaede]

As for kote i had to get a 2.5mm and i still feel pain! :(


A friend of mine gave me a very good advice...actually the same person who lend me her bogu. She has taped shoulder pads into her kote! When I first saw it I thought it was silly, but it works wonders! No bruises! Nothing!

I can send you a picture if you want! :D

K

[Neil Gendzwill]

As for kote i had to get a 2.5mm and i still feel pain!
A hard shot is going to cause pain no matter how good your kote. Having said that, just because it's 2.5 mm doesn't mean it's the best. Stitch width is only one thing to consider.

[Commander]

A hard shot is going to cause pain no matter how good your kote. Having said that, just because it's 2.5 mm doesn't mean it's the best. Stitch width is only one thing to consider.

Yeah thats true, it normally doesn't hurt, only when someone really smacks really hard.

[LarsCW]

I asked my sensei for advise some weeks ago about bogu even thou I'm way from ready but I do need to know a rough estimation of the amount of money I need to safe.

He told me that a 3mm japanese made bogu would be oke.

But now reading Neil's comment about the kote I might even go for a 2mm set as I still have atleast 6 months to save up for the bogu and I can always borrow a set from the dojo for a year. So then I could just get the best possible.

[Neil Gendzwill]

What makes you think 2 mm is better than 3?

[KendokaJim]

If you're going with a Japanese 3mm, I'd suggest going with bogubag.com. Stroud-sensei is extrememly helpful, and they've got a good special going on now. I'd go for the GX-30, but maybe opt for some deerskin kote, maybe aroun 100 USD more. It'll cost around 730 USD, including shipping. If it had been available at the time, I would have gotten that set. I have 3.5mm men and kote, but my tare is 5mm, and I spent around $800 with shipping. I don't know, maybe it's just because that set is prettier.

[JSchmidt]

As for kote i had to get a 2.5mm and i still feel pain! :(

lol

Make sure that the kote-himo is tied properly and that the futon isn't too loose around your arm.

Jakob

[LarsCW]

What makes you think 2 mm is better than 3?

I was expecting a 2mm set would be better
Adding them under here. They are from E-bogu.
---------------------------

Top quality machine stitched bogu. 3.0 mm machine stitch quality (Japanese materials)

MEN: Titanium Men, Seikon #7000 fabric, Seikon dyed deer leather

DO: Black 50 Bamboo Look Do, Natural leather for the Mune (chest part), Double folded leathers on the borders of Do, (Can be upgraded to Color 60 Bamboo Do), Embroidery made of Silk thread.

KOTE: Seikon dyed deer skin leather, Double Kera, Seikon #7000 Fabric.

TARE: 6 embroidery lines across on the Tare, Seikon #7000 fabric, Seikon dyed deer leather

The Himos (Strings) and Tenugui are included.

--------------------------------------

Our top of the line quality machine stitched bogu. All assembled by hand with 2.0 mm quality (Japanese materials)

MEN: Titanium Men, Seikon #8000 fabric, Seikon dyed deer leather

DO: Black 50 Bamboo Look Do, Natural leather for the Mune (chest part), Double folded leathers on the borders of Do, (Can be upgraded to Color 60 Bamboo Do), Embroidery made of Silk thread.

KOTE: Seikon dyed deer skin leather, Double Kera, Seikon #7000 Fabric.

TARE: 7 embroidery lines across, Seikon #7000 fabric, Seikon dyed deer leather

The Himos (Strings) and Tenugui are included.

[Alan03]

I was expecting a 2mm set would be better
Adding them under here. They are from E-bogu.

I have the 2mm kote from E-bogu and it still hurts when someone take a strike at it. I forgot my wristband one practice and was partnered up with a Nidan sempai, he left a huge bruise on my right kote from one strike. It was a good hit with good form, just compact as hell that's all. So I would not count on the stitching to protect you as much as a wrist protector/wrist band underneath your kote.

[Jens]

What is the most important factor for you when you are considering a new bogu? For example: You have looked upon your needs and found that you actually don't need more than a 5mm Korean made bogu. You have a budget that easily could buy you at least a 3mm. What would you get? The 5mm or the fancier one?

In my case the want is always bigger than my budget... :ermm: :p
Need or want? I always seem to end up with a compromise between "want" and "can afford", apparently completely disregarding "need".

Yes, that means that I buy stuff that is better than what I strictly need (and costing more than I ought to spend), but I like having nice gear so I'd buy the fancier one :happy:

/Jens W.

[Obsidian]

a little offtopic, but has anyone seen or tried like dos made of out a plastic material? i think its like nylon or something... but the picture i have in my mind when talking about nylon is strings.. anyway any idea if you can make nylon dos, if anyone has heard of em, smaller or larger by keeping it stretched/compressed?

[Optomitrist]

a little offtopic, but has anyone seen or tried like dos made of out a plastic material? i think its like nylon or something... but the picture i have in my mind when talking about nylon is strings.. anyway any idea if you can make nylon dos, if anyone has heard of em, smaller or larger by keeping it stretched/compressed?

Do you mean the actuall piece of the do that you hit? Mine is plastic. I'm too poor to be shelling out more money for bamboo. It is quite common amoung beginner sets.

[Obsidian]

ohh yup i think were on the same page.. the guy said it was nylon.. does anyone know if overtime, u can change the size of it?

[bullet08]

i went for what i wanted. koei s-22 with IBB men-gane. and i got what i wanted as far as look is concerned.

honest truth is, as far as protection goes, i don't notice much from the dojo bogu that i used when i was first allowed to wear bogu and this set.

wrist protection is a must if there are lot of beginners in the dojo.

whichever bogu you get, check and double check your head measurement, and check and double check how to measure it from whomever you buy your bogu from. make sure to ask how tight the measurement should be. if taking picture and sending in would help and so on.

i have been told that my men fits properly, but it till feels like it's lil too big. but tying it using kansai style makes it fit much much better, and secure. it must be my head shape, cause adding anything such as men pad only makes the fit even worse.

pete

[Michael_St_A]

'wrist protection is a must if there are lot of beginners in the dojo. '

Why not teach beginners not to whack without sense?


:-)

[LarsCW]

I am in a beginners course of 12 classes.

10 classes will be with this group only then 2 classes with some in full bogu but we have had some classes now that aimed at making our strikes relaxed.

They are looking at us using more left arm. Ofcourse this isn't all they look at:P

So in this period all we have been hitting is the others shinai which in my opinion is better then letting beginners wack you crazy.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I was expecting a 2mm set would be better
Adding them under here. They are from E-bogu.[snip]
In this case you're comparing apples with apples (same product line, same company) so you may be right. On the other hand, you might want to check with e-bogu. From the description, it's all the same materials and padding, just with tighter stitching. Some people find the 2 mm stitching to make the padding too stiff/compressed and claim 3 mm is better.

[Lloromannic]

In my case it was nether my want or my need. It was what my father wanted. After some time thnking and many times of almost buying bogu I decided to go for the GX-30 from Bogubag. I showed it to my father and he noticed the Specials page where he saw the YS sets with the discount and he decided I was getting the 1.2 bu one. I was elated but troubled by the RBSO-ness of it. Thankfully I convinced him of taking the option of buying only Men Kote and Do for $853 instead of the full set with 50pc Yamato for $1200+ (what an expensive Yamato Do) and we'll get a cheaper Do.

[Kaede]

In my case it was nether my want or my need. It was what my father wanted. After some time thnking and many times of almost buying bogu I decided to go for the GX-30 from Bogubag. I showed it to my father and he noticed the Specials page where he saw the YS sets with the discount and he decided I was getting the 1.2 bu one.

Lloromannic-san I'm just curious is your father a kendoka too?


I was elated but troubled by the RBSO-ness of it. Thankfully I convinced him of taking the option of buying only Men Kote and Do for $853 instead of the full set with 50pc Yamato for $1200+ (what an expensive Yamato Do) and we'll get a cheaper Do.

You must have a very nice father! Make him proud!

I asked my father if he could "sponsor" with some money towards my bogu. Mostly as a loan. His respons was:

- If you loose weight I will buy a bogu for you! (e-kendo, 4mm)
According to the deal I should go from 64kg to 55kg or less. It didn't do that I just told him I had reached the goal or that I recorded myself on the scale with a video camera. It had to be an "official weigh in"...

I recently got a raise in my financial situation. I bought a bogu without his help. I'm still going to loose that weight, though. It should be nice to know that I can do such a thing without having to get "bribed"...

K

[Lloromannic]

Lloromannic-san I'm just curious is your father a kendoka too?
No, but he likes me and my brother doing kendo

[LarsCW]

In this case you're comparing apples with apples (same product line, same company) so you may be right. On the other hand, you might want to check with e-bogu. From the description, it's all the same materials and padding, just with tighter stitching. Some people find the 2 mm stitching to make the padding too stiff/compressed and claim 3 mm is better.

I wrote to E-bogu customer service. As I am just starting they told me the 3mm should be good enough because the 2mm fabric is very stiff and may feel too hard.

[LNGUYEN]

All of these discussion about bogu make me lust for more expensive bogu, especially s-22. Right now, I am using GZ-17 and it is ok for me. However, I feel like I really need the S-22 or Eguchi A-2 for the sake of better sleep at night and my wife doesn't have to hear me crying out loud for bogu. this is the disease which is no cure except buying one.

[rainmaker]

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6474

Read this thread. I paid $260 + $80 S&H for this boguset. It will looks like this after one year. You will have some problem with it but at least you can start your Kendo right away and don't need to spend lot of money in the beginning. There will be very good chance that I need to upgrade my Men within 2~3 years but it is okay.. I am happy with this boguset..