Shinsengumi History: Ikedaya Affair!

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

I hope that alot of you are shinsengumi fans like I am. :smiley:
In this thread, I would like to know anything that you people have to say about the Ikedaya Incident! I am doing this research for my own gain, and I wish to know more, so you guys can tell me anything you know about the shinsengumi period!!! I'm sure you will probably repeat everything I know already, so try to limit your answers to just the Ikedaya Affair.

Thanks!!!:)

Okita
Tennen Rishin Ryu

[WolfofMibu]

I also love the Shinsengumi.


All i know about the Ikedaya affair is that it took place at night in 1864 and they just raided the hotels and slaughtered many members of choshu and satsuma clans.

I hope this helped you out(you most likely knew this already)

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

I did, but thanks anyway wolfofmibu, and just because you are a shinsengumi fan i am adding you to my buddy list, i keep all the other shinsengumi fans there.

[Taek]

I've first heard about Shinsengumi from my wife and got me interested in them. I've seen a document about the Ikedaya and this programme was trying to reveal how they excuted
the raid with such a minimum casuality of their own. I think there were only one injury and one death on Shisengumi side but the death was cused by an illiness rather than actualy fight. One of my dojo mate gave me a DVD - when the last sword is drawn - and it is about Shisengumi.

[WolfofMibu]

i will also add you to my buddy list. anyone who is a fan of the shinsengumi is my kind of person. I have learned the most about Saito Hajime If any of you have any more facts about any other member anything will be greatly appreciated. Also any other information about their involvement in the battle of toba fushimi.

[WolfofMibu]

Taek, that is interesting. when wast this movie made? I would like to see that.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

Hey wolfofmibu, i have quite a bit of info on Sanosuke Harada, tenth unit captain

souji okita, first unit captain

shinpachi nagakura, second unit captain, only a little about him

and toshizo hijikata, vice captain

and last is Isami Kondou, commander

Okita Souji is/was arguably the best swordsman in the shinsengumi, according to records he is a very handsome person, he was diagnosed with tuberculosis, which in that time was an uncurrable disease. During the Ikedaya raid he began to cough up blood and fainted, however, he survived, He joined Isami Kondous Tennen Rishin Ryu dojo at age 9 and was an accomplished swordsman by the age of 15.

Sanosuke Harada was the shinsengumi's best spear-fighter, it was his favorite weapon, the only other interesting thing that i know about him is that he married a whore from one of the brothels.

Toshizou Hijikata and Isami Kondou took over the shinsengumi from their old commander Serizawa, they assasinated him, was another feared swordmaster, made medicines for the shinsengumi, was known as the "demon of the shinsengumi" because he was hard as stone and had a heart of ice. The son of a farmer.

Isami Kondou was a son of a rich farmer originally, was adopted by the owner of the shieikan dojo, his original name was Miyakawa Katsuta, helped write up the shinsengumi's laws. Was taken prisoner after the Ikedaya incident by the Ishin government.

Shinpachi Nagakura was sometimes in charge of both the first and second units because Okita would sometimes be sick. He wrote a book of his shinsengumi days. After the shinsengumi were defeated he went to Hokkaido and changed his name to Sugimura Yoshie. Taught kendo in a prison there.

PS. The only people that really knew that Souji Okita had T.B. were the commander and vice commanders

[Tokio Saitou]

^0^ I'm a Shinsengumi fan too

About the Ikedaya Inn Affair... here's my contribution:

5th June, 1864

The plan of the Ishin Shishi was to engulf Kyoto in fire on a windy night around June 20th, kill Matsudaira Katamori (he was the military Comissioner of Japan before de Meiji Restoration) and Nagawanomiya Tatsuhiko and kidnap the Emperor. But the Miburo broke in and important Ishin Shishi members were killed by the Shinsengumi at the Ikedaya Inn, where they were holding a secret conference to raise an army.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

hey thanks saitou, you've been added to the buddy list too, I didn't know some of that.

[GoldenShinai]

please excuse my stupidity, but who exactly were the Shinsengumi? i have heard of them before, and all i know is that they were enemies of the Ishin Shishi.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

well golden shinai,


they were the most feared police force in tokugawa history and consisted of hundreds of expert swordsmen, each endowed with the official sanction and an unflinchin propensity to kill. Their purpose was to restore law and order to the blood soaked streets of the imperial capital. "Fight fire with fire, and terror with terror," reasoned the powers that were, with a single-minded objective bolstered by the corps' draconian code.

The radicals from Choshu (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#choshu) and Tosa (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#tosa) unleashed a reign of terror and assassination in Kyoto (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#imperialcapital) during the early 1860s. In the spring of 1863, the Tokugawa Bakufu (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#tokugawa) made its final preparations for the first visit to Kyoto by a shogun (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#shogun) in over two centuries. To restore order to the imperial capital, the Tokugawa authorities recruited over two hundred ronin (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#ronin) from provinces around Japan, under the slogan of “loyalty and patriotism.” Shortly after the “loyal and patriotic corps” reached Kyoto, the bakufu (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#bakufu) had second thoughts about the wisdom of their plan. Many of the ronin they had recruited were actually Imperial Loyalists (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#imperialloyalist) who shared the xenophobic sentiments of the Choshu and Tosa men whom they had been enlisted to suppress. Most of the enlistees were soon sent back to Edo, where they could do little harm. Some twenty of them, however, remained in Kyoto, under the supervision of the Lord of Aizu (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#aizu), a staunch Tokugawa ally and the shogunate’s official Protector of Kyoto. The diminished corps assumed the name Shinsengumi, “Newly Selected Corps,” led by two particularly lethal swordsmen, Serizawa Kamo (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#serizawakamo) and Kondo Isami (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#kondoisami), who were bitter rivals. Serizawa, who hailed from a wealthy samurai family of the Mito domain, one of the elite Go-sanke (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#gosanke), the three branch houses of the Tokugawa, was a highly skilled swordsman. Kondo, originally of peasant stock from the province of Musashi (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#musashi), near Edo (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#edo), had been adopted by a local sword master for his ferocity on the practice floor. Serizawa had a reputation as a violent drunk. He felt that he was above the law. He took advantage of his newfound power to embezzle money from wealthy Kyoto merchants, to carouse at his favorite house of pleasure at the expense of the perplexed proprietress, and to have his way with women, including other men’s wives. The Protector of Kyoto, unhappy that this leader of his police corps behaved contrary to his raison d’etre, ordered Kondo to assassinate Serizawa. Kondo carried out this order with the same cold-blooded expedience by which his corps would subdue the enemies of the Tokugawa. He now became the sole commander of the Shinsengumi, which he, and his best friend and right-hand man, Hijikata Toshizo (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#hijikatatoshizo), would lead with an iron rule.

As suggested by the corps’ symbol, the Chinese character for sincerity, Kondo and Hijikata commanded the Shinsengumi based on the severest of codes. Any man who failed to abide by this code was forced to commit seppuku (http://www.ridgebackpress.com/terms.htm#seppuku), and it was through this code which the Shinsengumi secured its place in Japanese history.

hope this helps and makes you become a believer too

Okita

[GoldenShinai]

wow, they sound like they were amazing people.......................I think ill do some reaserch!

[WolfofMibu]

thank you everyone for all of the info. Especially okita. I was wondering if you knew anything about Saito Hajime Besides that he was a master of Itto Ryu swordsmanship. I would like to know something about his life since he is my favorite member and i also know he commanded the 3red unit. Thanks for the info on everyon else.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

no prob wolf. I'll try to find some more info for you.keep watchin my thread.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

Saitō Hajime (斎藤 一 Saitō Hajime) (January 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_1), 1844 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1844) - September 28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_28), 1915 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1915)) was the captain of the third troop of the Shinsengumi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinsengumi).

He was one of the few who survived the numerous wars of the late shogunate period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Tokugawa_shogunate). He was considered not to be as strong as Okita Souji (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okita_Souji) but, he was fierce and fearless in combat and his left-handed single thrust was the most dreaded and lethal techniques of the Shinsengumi members. This one-hit technique matched well the philosophy of "Aku Soku Zan" ("Kill Evil Instantly" in a loose translation, "Kill those who are evil immediately" in a figurative translation).

His life story and origins are very obscure and somewhat contradictory. Some say that he was a son of a ronin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronin), while others say he left Edo after killing a person (some say accidentally) to join an army in Kyoto.

As a member of the Shinsengumi, it is said that Saitō was an introvert and a mysterious person; a common description of his personality says he "was not a man predisposed to small talk". He conducted internal spying on possible enemy operatives (i.e. the Itou case (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Itou_case&action=edit)), as well as monitoring other intelligence and enemy activity. His controversial reputation as a "hero" comes from the fact that he has killed several corrupt members of the Shinsengumi and police even after the war, strictly adhering to the precepts of Aku Soku Zan.

He married Tokio Takagi, a daughter of a daimyō (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimyo).

After the war, he changed his name to Fujita Goro and worked as a police officer. He obtained special permission to carry a katana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katana).

He used to drink considerably; in fact, he passed away because of a stomach ulcer, possibly because of drinking, at the age of 71. He did not reveal anything about his activity in the Shinsengumi like Nagakura Shinpachi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagakura_Shinpachi) until his death.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saito_Hajime&action=edit&section=1)]
anime ("][/url]

Saitō in Fiction

this is for you wofl.

Saitō has become a very popular recently as several [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime) and manga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga) series have added him as a character. The popular Rurouni Kenshin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurouni_Kenshin) anime series portrays Saitō as an anti-hero type of character often in conflict with Himura Kenshin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himura_Kenshin) (the main character), whom he must work with in order to achieve his goals. It's also interesting to note that in this series, Saitō is very tall compared to the other characters and is always very cold and quiet, following some of the very few description of his personality in real life. The "Gatotsu" sword technique that he uses in the series follows the description of his original sword technique, but is purely fictional. In Peacemaker Kurogane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacemaker_Kurogane), a manga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga) that tells the fictional story about a boy who joins the Shinsengumi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinsengumi) to avenge the deaths of his parents, he appears as the captain of the third troop, as he was in real life.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saito_Hajime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saito_Hajime)"

[WolfofMibu]

will do Okita

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

found some info on the ikedaya incident and on your battle that you were asking about wolf.

here it is

Shinsengumi (“Newly Selected Corps”), a police force of disenfranchised samurai, organized at the end of the Tokugawa period (1616-1867) by the Kyoto protectorate of Aizu Domain, evokes various images in modern Japanese history. About 140 years ago, starting in 1863 (Bunkyū 3), they maintained order and controlled the lawless rōnin (“masterless samurai”) in the then-chaotic former capital of Kyoto. Operating as a corps, this group wielded their swords and used force to bring about law and order. Siding with the bakufu (Tokugawa government), they were feared by the loyalists (J., shishi, literally “men of high ideals”) of the imperialistic sonno jōi (lit., “revering the emperor and overthrowing the barbarians”) movement of the Chōshū and Tosa Provinces.
In the sixth month of 1864 (Genji 1), the Shinsengumi attacked and killed loyalists staying at the Ikedaya Inn near the smaller Sanjō Bridge. This historical event, known as the Ikedaya Incident, represented a major triumph for the group and marked a turning point for the bakufu disturbances that were to follow. After dealing with inner strife and purges from within the ranks, the Shinsengumi fought as the bakufu vanguard in the Toba Fushimi Battle during the first month of 1868 (Keiō 4). Although they were defeated by the the Satsuma-Chōshū army, their main force fled to Edo (present-day Tokyo) and continued fighting for the bakufu in the battles of Katsunuma in Kōshū Province (now Yamanashi Prefecture), Aizu (western Fukushima Prefecture), and Hakodate in Hokkaidō.
The activities of the Shinsengumi have long been interpreted as having been carried out against the rebel forces of Satsuma and Chōshū, which established the new Meiji government. Because of this, this corps has long been portrayed as the enemies of the loyalist movement in films and novels. However, the discovery of previously unknown sources has prompted the need for a reexamination of this force.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

go to this website to see some cool stuff on display that some members of the shinsengumi owned.:) http://www2.kyohaku.go.jp/tokuchin/sinsen/bun2e.htm

[GoldenShinai]

thank you everyone for all of the info. Especially okita. I was wondering if you knew anything about Saito Hajime Besides that he was a master of Itto Ryu swordsmanship. I would like to know something about his life since he is my favorite member and i also know he commanded the 3red unit. Thanks for the info on everyon else.
dude, i did some research, and i am pretty pissed. apparently they made Hajime into a character in Ruroni Kenshin. When i typed in his name, all that came up was stupid anime fan websites with no real information, exept for what you previously stated about him being leader of the 3rd unit.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

ok folks, I have found the answers and info i have been searching for, and a little more:) , this thread may now be used by any of you who want to talk about the shinsengumi, I have almost all of the answers about them now so ask my anything you want and i will do my best to find the answer and reply.

thanks for all the help everybody,
enjoy the thread,
and I am glad to see that there are so many shinsengumi fans out there.

thanks again

Okita-sama:wink:

oh yeah, one more thing...
in case any of you were wondering what really happened at the ikedaya incident here it is, however, i disagree with what the person says, this person says that the shinsengumi's best swordsman was Shinpachi Nagakura, however, most of my sources say that Souji Okita was, but you be the judge.





Shinsengumi Association Chofu Office, Tel: 81-7308
Industrial Promotion Office, Tel: 81-7184
To write the article for this issue (No. 14), we asked Jun Yokota, a member of the Shinsengumi Club bulletin "Hekketsuhi."

"We are on duty, and we will kill any outlaws without mercy..."
On the second floor of the Kyoto inn Ikedaya on June 5, 1864, Kondo Isami shouted these words concerning the lawless swordsmen he had been searching for.

Thus began the bloody tumult. However, being outnumbered, the Shinsengumi fought an uphill battle even though they were skilled swordsmen. Of the 10 Shinsengumi members with Kondo at the Ikedaya melee, three men were fatally injured. In addition, Okita Soji collapsed, Todo Heisuke was injured and Kondo himself could not move as he was surrounded by several swordsmen. The conflict continued in a tense showdown with the heroic fighting of Shinsengumi's top swordsman Nagakura Shinpachi.

Just then, the Hijikata group, which had been elsewhere at the time, rushed to Ikedaya to help. The fighting then took a dramatic turn, and Shinsengumi were victorious.
With the fall of the main swordsmen who were aiming to destroy the Shogunate, some say that the Meiji Restoration was delayed by one or two years, while others say that it made the Meiji Restoration happen more quickly. In either case, the Ikedaya Incident was definitely a turning point in the history of the end of the Shogunate.

Upon hearing of the incident, the enraged Choshu-han clan sent soldiers to Kyoto. The Kinmon-no-hen uprising ensued, and the feudal government carried out a punitive expedition against the defeated Choshu-han clan, placing the blame on them for the uprising. The powerful government force of the Shogunate began to pose a threat for the Satsuma-han clan, which, until then, had worked together with the Shogunate, and the Satsuma-Choshu Alliance was established. Furthermore, the history of the end of the Shogunate moved even quicker with the Boshin War.

At the time of the Ikedaya incident, the number of soldiers dispatched was 34; even including those remaining on guard, there were still only 40.
The reason for this is related to the main objective of the formation of the Shinsengumi. While the Shinsengumi worked to provide security in the city of Kyoto, their ultimate goal was to maintain respect for the Emperor and maintain anti-alienism. The Shogunate, which was subject to the wishes of the Imperial Court, was supposed to pour its efforts into fighting to eliminate foreign influence within Japan. However, since the Shogunate hesitated in moving forward in the anti-alien movement, it is said that in the month before the incident, Kondo filed a request to disband the Shinsengumi if no action was taken against foreigners. The relatively small number of soldiers was the result of deserters who were dissatisfied with not being able to achieve satisfaction on anti-alienism.

Thus, the victory in the incident shows that the Shinsengumi was truly a group of experts at maintaining security in the city, regardless of their personal ideals.
The Shinsengumi were woven into the organization of the Shogunate. The Shogunate started to collapse and there was nothing the Shinsengumi could do to stop it. The end came with the Boshin War. This is the truly sad part of the Shinsengumi.

[Gedan_914]

Shinsengumi fans unite! Haha this thread shot off like a rocket. Well not much else to add other than voicing my personal like of the Shinsengumi (My favorite captain was Okita:cool: ).

As far as info goes my knowledge of Ikedaya has already been shared as to who, what, where and why. What I do know that might interest Shinsengumi fans is that Hijikata created a supposedly genius thrust/slash technique called the Hirazuki. It was supposed to lack a blind spot due to the fact that if the thrust missed it could instantly turned into a wide slash (note to relatively new Kendo people: It would probably not be in your best interest to try and learn this attack on your own (I'm not even sure if it can be applied in Kendo)).

You're all going on the buddy list thing!

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

hey thanks gedan for adding your part.

[ky0zero]

Hey guys, if you're really interested in the history of the Shinsengumi and how they came about and how they ended, theres a Japanese TV Series which aired last year called 'Shinsengumi'. PM me if you want the links as to where to download the series. Its a 49 episode show with english subtitles too. Its a very interesting and moving j-dorama!!!
The review can be seen here (http://www.jdorama.com/drama.857.htm)

Enjoy!

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

Okay . . . So I lied, I need more information, I found that there are like 10 captains that I don't have any information on, please tell me stuff about

Heisuke Todou
Seisuke Yamanami
Susumu Yamazaki
Takeda Kanryuusai
Itou Kashitarou
Matsubara Chouji
Inoue Genzaburou
Tani Sanjiyuro
Suzuki Mikisaburou
Shimada Kai

thanks,

Okita

[Light Samurai]

I've ben looking for stuff on it as well. Thanks Okita. I hope to take Tennen-Rishin Ryu in Japan, although it's somewhat un-realistic that I will, I can hope. You can also add me to your Buddy List.

Peace.

[Taek]

Taek, that is interesting. when wast this movie made? I would like to see that.
I'm not sure when exactly the movie is made but it must've been made pretty recently.
It is not a kind of full on sword fighting stuff but I enjoyed watching it. I won't tell you the story as it will spoil the joy if you are planing to watch it. I don't think it is out in the video shops but you might be able to get a copy at DVD shops in China town...... :ko:

[Optomitrist]

Mibu-Ro[Okita] wrote:

The Shogunate, which was subject to the wishes of the Imperial Court, was supposed to pour its efforts into fighting to eliminate foreign influence within Japan. However, since the Shogunate hesitated in moving forward in the anti-alien movement, it is said that in the month before the incident, Kondo filed a request to disband the Shinsengumi if no action was taken against foreigners.

I'm confused. I thought the shogunate DID cheer for nationalism and isolationism. And that the emperor want the bring japan up to date. Can you clarify.

On a side note. Kenshin, fought against the shinsengumi, making him a loyalist to the emperor, correct?

[reg]

I'm confused. I thought the shogunate DID cheer for nationalism and isolationism. And that the emperor want the bring japan up to date. Can you clarify.
yes, but external pressures forced the bakufu to open japan up for trade [perry's doing] the emperor before meiji were against opening the country.


On a side note. Kenshin, fought against the shinsengumi, making him a loyalist to the emperor, correct?

no, because the shinsengumi were loyal to the bakufu, and the bakufu was always loyal to the emperor, making kenshin a dirty, dirty radical.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

On a side note. Kenshin, fought against the shinsengumi, making him a loyalist to the emperor, correct?[/QUOTE]


Actually Reg, Optometrists statement does have some truth, but there are a few problems. Let me explain,
1. Kenshin served Kogoro Katsura in Samurai-X, Kogoro Katsura was a real person and was a Choshu swordsman, Katsura was involved in the Ikedaya incident, but managed to get away. Katsura was a loyalist, but Kenshin was only serving him, he didn't care beans about the emperor.

2. Kenshin is not real.

[Optomitrist]

1. Kenshin served Kogoro Katsura in Samurai-X, Kogoro Katsura was a real person and was a Choshu swordsman, Katsura was involved in the Ikedaya incident, but managed to get away. Katsura was a loyalist, but Kenshin was only serving him, he didn't care beans about the emperor.

2. Kenshin is not real.


I know he is not real, its anime. but the time period was real and I just want to see things in the propper prospective.

So the Shinsengumi were police working for the shogun, not the emperor. The emperor at the time had how much influence at this age?

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

So the Shinsengumi were police working for the shogun, not the emperor. The emperor at the time had how much influence at this age?

1. Correct

2. The emperor had been shoved aside in an earlier era, (not sure which though:puzzled: ) and the shogunate, or bakufu, were in control, meaning that the emperor had no power at the time.

[WolfofMibu]

I am also a big fan of Rurouni Kenshin, and Samurai X. what i did not know was that Katsura was involved in ikedaya since he did not appear there in the movie.

Like i said Saito Hajime is my favorite historical character. Thanks for all the info everyone. I will have to go somewhere to find a copy of the Shinsengumi movie.

I have one other question. Does anyone know if Saito Hajime was involved with Ikedaya.


Sidenote: For all of you Shinsengumi and Saito Hajime fans, do not listen to Rurouni Kenshin about his style of fighting. There is no such move as the Gatoutsu. He used that Katata move in kendo today. Apparently it was his favorite attack. He was a master of Itto Ryu Swordsmanship.

If anyone can answer my question i will take any responses.

Thanks, WolfofMibu

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

hey wolf, all the info i have on saito is on page 1 i think!

[WolfofMibu]

sorry, i must have skipped over that one. i just read it now. thank you it was very infromative. I quite like rurouni kenshin and samurai x. It is a very interesting and great show. I just wish they would have animated the real third season called the revenge arc. i have only seen enishi in the samurai x series and some manga clips on the internet but not much else. he seems pretty cool to me though. Thanks for all your help okita. hope to be talking about the Shinsengumi again later.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

anytime. stupid sentence has to be 10 characters long.

[TylerY]

Wow another Shinsengumi thread. Anyone who is a fan of the group should watch the TV series. It does a really good job of the origins of the group. The show starts 10 years before the formation of the Shinsengumi and follows the lives of young Kondo Isami and Hijikata Toshizo. It's got some really good history in it if you're interested in that.

After the Ikedaya thing, the whole mood of the thing changes though. Everything gets all dreary and sad because of the Yamanami incident and Okita's health problems. But it seems pretty good so far (I'm only on episode 40 myself).

For whatever it's worth, I'm planning on getting a Shinsengumi haori lol

[Optomitrist]

I thought you guys might like this.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=348&item=5920787824

[GoldenShinai]

O_O thats........................................so... ................................................FR EAKING COOL!

[Kingofmyrrh]

The shinsengumi do seem popular, but it's worth remembering that they were frequently criticized for cowardice - attacking single opponents in great numbers. If you can find someone who's interested enough to do the translation, there were a series of articles in kendo nihon last year on each of the main figures. I didn't really read them, but I definitely recall Okita, Nagakura, and Kondo, although there were certainly a good few more. Outside of the realm of entertainment, it seems that Nagakura was regarded as the best swordsman, although how they found this out and what significance it holds is pretty much lost on me. I watched a few episodes of the series when I was in Japan, but the hideous acting and horrendous swordsmanship meant that I really couldn't stomach it. Having your lead character played by a member of a boyband doesn't exactly inspire confidence...

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

Yeah, upon further research I have discovered that in a survey that went through japan, they were asked who the best swordsman of the shinsengumi was, this survey was passed through a bunch of history students and the answer was a three way tie,

Nagakura Shinpachi
Souji Okita
Hajime Saitou

But I like all three of them so it's okay.:)

[Sepiraph]

Here are the biographies of two important figures from the same period as the Shinsengumi.

Katsu Kaishu
http://swordforum.com/articles/japanesehistory/katsukaishu.php

Sakamoto Ryoma
http://swordforum.com/articles/japanesehistory/sakamoto-ryoma.php

Hopefully in the future, the author (Romulus Hillsborough) will write about members of the Shinsengumi.

p.s. My favourite member is Okita. :)

[WolfofMibu]

I just wanted to say that this is a good thread. Good job for starting it okita. Thanks everyone for replying to my questions and giving me some info i didnt know. thanks again


Wolfofmibu

[Hisham]

']1. Correct

2. The emperor had been shoved aside in an earlier era, (not sure which though:puzzled: ) and the shogunate, or bakufu, were in control, meaning that the emperor had no power at the time.

If i'm not mistaken the emperor was shoved aside by the Taira clan after the Genpei war which made the military people equal and to some extent superior to the civilian side of the government (the nobles),thus the shogunate was born in 1160.
You might know about the tale of the Heike, a novel about that period.

BTW great posting guys.
PS:This civilian side against military side seems to have always been an issue which confucian societies had to deal with, i guess it's only in Japan where the military side won opposit China for instance.

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

here is/are a cool pic/s of shinsengumi, but they are only fanart, I really like the "Red Miburo" energy drink, I wonder where I can get some.:)

http://www.shinsengumihq.com/fanartRedMiburo.jpg

http://www.shinsengumihq.com/artbf.htm

Okita

[Andou]

Ah. The Shinsengumi...I've done a lot of research and such on them. They were skillfull swordsmen, but the truth is that sometimes, yes, they did fight in unfair matches or odds. More relevant was the Ikeda Ya Affair. This ordeal was pretty intense based on accounts of...well practically everything that ever depicted it. I believe (I may be wrong on this...so...if you have any information I'd apprecate it, including corrections) that they were raiding 2 inns at once. However, the one that took the larger force proved to be the wrong one. Kondo and Okita (I think...this is where I'm a little hazy) were the only 2 units that raided the Ikeda Ya and it took a good amount of time for Hijikata and the rest of the Shinsengumi to get the news and provide support. All in all I think it was 2 hours of intense fighting mostly indoors which was the turning point in the Shinsengumi's familiarity.

[Goyaman]

If you visit Kyoto now, there's a Pachinko parlor on the site of the Ikedaya; but at least the city of Kyoto *does* have a marker noting the site...

[kaneyoshi]

Okita Souji is/was arguably the best swordsman in the shinsengumi, according to records he is a very handsome person, he was diagnosed with tuberculosis, which in that time was an uncurrable disease. During the Ikedaya raid he began to cough up blood and fainted, however, he survived, He joined Isami Kondous Tennen Rishin Ryu dojo at age 9 and was an accomplished swordsman by the age of 15.

Anou... yes, I would agree that while Okita-san is arguably the best in the Shinsengumi, the only other one he was -very close- at par with was Saitoh-san. It was a documented fact that if they were to fight each other, neither of them would survive. :(

And about him being "handsome"... anou... from what I've been told, he was rather "fish-faced" just as much as Saitoh-san was compared to a "folding screen". This information came from interviews conducted with family members by other Shinsengumi enthusiasts who managed to get ahold of his descendants (nieces, nephews, grandnieces and nephews most probably). Then again we'll never really, really know, ne? There's not one picture of him anywhere, and the one other picture that's been floating around on the net turned out to be a hoax: a photomanip of some actor someone cooked up. ^^;;

Regardless, the image of PMK's Okita has taken a permanent residence in my mind so... :)

What really happened during the Ikeda-ya incident, however, is still under much debate. Some say he did cough up that much blood and fainted, and some say it's too early for that because the incident happened waaaay before he died. And during those times, TB killed considerably a lot faster because it was practically an unknown disease. Poor Souji had to die all alone because nobody knew except for Hijikata-san and Kondo-san. He's buried in Sensoji Temple at Asakusa.

...and started teaching at--18, methinks?

[Naginatagirl]

^_____________________________^

Okay, so the Shinsengumi were cool and all, but don't go overboard; they were still just people. Having said that.....*cough* I'm a huge fan and currently have all the eps of the NHK Shinsengumi drama. ...*cough*

If you're interested in the Shinsengumi I highly suggest watching it as it starts before the Shinsengumi were formed and takes you through all the events until the end. Including the Ikedaya Incident. It portrays Kondo Isami as an honest guy trying to follow his ideals. (Though in my research I've also found that he was viewed by some as arrogant and cold, so his real personality is a bit of a historical question. So watch it if you're interested, but keep in mind that it is T.V. and was made for the Japanese public.) Hijikata...what can be said about him? HE is the reason I first became interested in the Shinsengumi.

You can find the drama here: http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/torrents.php just do a search for "Shinsengumi". I came across the site when the torrent I was originally downloading from shut down. You can find almost any drama from Japan, China, or Korea there.

A synopsis of most of the eps can be found here: http://nhkshinsengumi.tripod.com/synopsis.html If you want to read before downloading.

Enjoy~

[Mibu-Ro[Okita]]

golden shinai look here!!!! tons of info here!!!

[Enroth]

Most of the people of that period are dead.....


or r they dom dom domm!

[GoldenShinai]

']golden shinai look here!!!! tons of info here!!!

YAY!!! I GOT ATTENTION!!!


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ok, sorry. Thanks for the pointer.