Weight loss and Kendo/Kumdo

[Portly Kendoka]

Hello everyone I'm very new to this post (only my second post)! I hope I posted this in the right place I was unsure of to put it here or in training. I'm a newbie and only just found out about this facinating art. As you may have gathered I'm a rather portly gentleman (5'10 - 107kg) and aged 33 years. I like this as a sport/art but was wondering if this is good for weight loss. I've seen 2 classes and it looked very physical and demanding and the armour seemed to caused alot of sweating which I assume leads to further weight loss. However I have also seen some portly kendoka and pictures on the web of large sized kendoka so am unsure of the weight loss benefits. I have also seen this in Judo with more senior members which I did for 2 years in 2001, as is the case in other sports. Classes are on 2 x per week for 2 hours and this would be the only form of physical activity I would get during the week apart from a 30 min walk to work each day. I also am weaked will as you've probably gathered. I am also very unfit. Also is it hard to pick up this art at my age. I would be extremely grateful for any help regarding this matter. Thankyou. :redface:

[stuartwilson]

My weight has gone down and up while doing Kendo. So (at least in my case) Kendo, by itself will not precipitate weight loss. However

It is good exercise.
You'll have a hard time getting past a certain point without losing weight. Thus, if you desire to improve, Kendo will help motivate you to lose weight.
On the down side, if you're heavy (like I am), Kendo is not easy on your knees, hips, and ankles.
Bottom line: If you combine Kendo with diet, you'll lose weight. You won't lose as fast as in an aeorbics program, but hey, this is a LOT more fun. So depending on how often you can practice, how intense the practice is, and what you do between practices, ...

Don't worry about picking it up late in life. I started at 46.

Like the Nike commercials say, "Just do it."

[neko kenshi]

Hey, I'm probably not the most qualified person to speak for kendo as I've only been doing it for a year, but I'll do my best. Kendo is very physichally demanding, but probably inefficient for weight loss as it generally is just a few hours once or twice a week. Combined with regular excercise and diet, I think it could help. So yeah, kendo alone will not be the source of a significant weight loss.

[Denker]

I myself used to be a rather portly gentleman. I began to lose a lot of weight earlier in the year, which slowed to a slow trickle several months ago. Since I started Kendo, I'm lost about a pound a week by my reckoning. I've maintained that for several weeks now. That's combined with paying attention to what I eat however. It's pretty easy to stay in the habit once you're doing it.

Kendo really does help to get you in shape, and if you put your all into it and eat better you're SURE to lose excess weight. You can still do Kendo and have excess baggage, so it's not just Kendo that would help you lose weight... as has been said. I'd recommend that you take up the challenge. If you stick with it and preservere, you'll feel greatly rewarded.

- Matt

[Miles]

I'm in the military and we have to take a physical fitness test twice a year. I just took my last one this month and my run time dropped by 30 seconds in the 2-mile run. I haven't really run in the last 4 - 5 months, only did Kumdo (Kendo) here where I am stationed.

For a big guy (I'm 6' 207lbs) it's tough on the lower joints, but as you loose weight you'll find it easier.

[Portly Kendoka]

Thank you all so much. Your information and suggestions have been really motivating. I guess i'm also scared of not being able to do the work as i'm unfit and I do worry about my weak will.

[ginger_justice]

speaking from personal experiance, kendo's a remarkably effective way of getting fit. when i started, i'd been off all forms of physical exercise for two years; i was a boxer, but started having some interesting problems, indicative of reversible brain damage, so i stopped very suddenly, all the muscle turning into flab, which was soon joined by the lard that comes from drinking beer and eating half a cow as a snack. a few suburi cuts were enough to get the black flowers blossoming in front of my eyes, to the extent that i'd have to leave the dojo to get some water and air.

admittedly, i'd been lossing weight for a while before taking up kendo, but i've lost something approaching 16 inches around the waist since i stopped eating pies in my sleep. of that, i'd say a good ten or twelve went as a direct result of kendo, once a week. when i bought my first hakama, i had to extend the longer set of straps to get them round me the requisite number of times. by the time i was in armour, i found the do a little tight; now, i've got room in there for a hidden shoto, 'for close encounters'.

whilst i'm not quite carved out of marble now, kendo's been responisble for a vast improvement in my general health, though i'm now covered in sacks of skin that used to be full of cake, and are now full of nothing. it was hard going at first, though the speed of the improvement was remarkable. also greatly improves your chances with the ladies, who dig stinking armour, bruises, and chpas who spend their wednesday nights wearing a skirt, running round with a big stick, hitting on men.

more power to your arm, my friend.

[Wakakatana]

Any excersize is better then no excersize. Just doing something will be a start for change. As for your "weak will", all I can say is you have to work on that every day. How you think is how you act. Start thinking positive and keep trying to think positive and someday you will find that you can do anything you set your mind too. The power of the mind is huge, you just have to train your self to think so.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Mr. Portly: If your main goal is to lose weight, there are more efficient ways than kendo. But the best thing is something you'll stick to. I think the main thing for you is to get out there and do something. The initial classes of kendo are not too strenuous, you get eased into the physically tougher stuff over time. If you're already going for a daily 30 minute walk then beginners' kendo classes should not be a problem.

Having said that, diet is more important than exercise. 5 km run in a half-hour might burn 400 calories - that's about a cheeseburger. So in addition to the footwork and practice swings, you need to practice table pushaways and head turnasides.

A useful website is www.fitday.com - it lets you create a personal account and track how many calories you burn and how many you eat, and also break down your food intake by category (carbs, protein, etc). It's a real eye opener for people who claim they "don't eat that much" or are exercising but never seem to lose the weight.

[tantadi]

When you partake in organized martial arts, it will help to train your will as well.
And imo kendo is good for weightloss because the sessions often are long...still they don't require the athletisism that will make it too difficult. Starting kendo will probably feel hard in the beginning, but as long as you show up for the next class, there will come a time, not very far from now, when you realise how much better you feel. Good luck!

[akumalkenshi]

I did loose some weight. Alltough it was a combination of things, I modified my diet as well ( including limiting my amount of beer intake!:) )

at the end, if Kendo really turns you on, you will find yourself doing other things to maximize your potential.ex:

having an early and light lunch prior class ( w/ an easy digestion I find myself lighter and faster, 8 hrs).
drinking plenty of water the previous hours prior class.
working out between class days to improve your stamina and endurance, so you dont puff and grunt during keiko.
good luck!

[Optomitrist]

I used to play soccer and track. Then I grew up and became lazy. I started kendo last august and can say it takes me back to the days where I had loads of stamina and win capacities. Kendo is a great workout, once you step into bogu you get double the workout!


And reguarding heavier wieght, Carrying extra weight will hurt like in kendo like everyone else said. The reason it is harder is becuase there is a lot of jumpling and stomping. The heivier person is putting more strain on their legs becuase of this. Someone in our dojo in the last two years has lost a TON of weight. He used to wrap up his heals and ankles before practice. he stopped, probably becuase it isn't as nessesary when you weigh less. Dont let that discurage you. Kendo is pretty much for everyone.

[ChaShu]

I did start kendo four months ago as a weight-loss/fitness regiment. Can't say as I've lost weight, but I'm fitting into my clothes better and I'm losing that second chin. Incidentally, 29, 5'11", 220-226 lbs. depending on the time of day. I can see some change in my stamina and physical conditioning though... Things that were flabby are also beginning to show signs of muscle as well. I don't think taht you should focus too much on the weight, but more the fitness of your body and the fit of your clothes. Hey, you know what they say about muscle, it weighs heavier than fat. And also, enjoy kendo for kendo. That will lead you on the path to a healthier lifestyle. Good luck!

[kanyil]

...Can't say as I've lost weight, but I'm fitting into my clothes better and I'm losing that second chin. ...Things that were flabby are also beginning to show signs of muscle as well.

I have lost some weight, but not THAT much (I'm still about 10 kgs above my ideal weight though). But I am definitely fitting into my clothes better. Muscle weights more than fat.

[Portly Kendoka]

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. You have put a new spin on it for me. Enjoy the experience and the rest should take care of itself. I'm not worried about how I look, more about being around for a longer time. Thanks for the website Neil. Oh and akumalkenshi, it should also limit my beer intake as it's hard to drink with a men on LOL.

[Charles_V]

. Hey, you know what they say about muscle, it weighs heavier than fat.

I just want to clarify that muscle does not weigh more than fat. A pound of muscle is equal to a pound of fat. Its more of a matter of density, given the rigid structure and density of muscle it takes up less space than an equivalent amount of fat. Hope that clears things up. : )

[Anjin-san]

it's hard to drink with a men on

errr... you'd be surprised actually...

[mark9_john]

hi buddies
As this is my first ever post in this forum, iam very happy and exited too about it. I am new to weight loss programs as i have just started taking doctors prescriptions about weight loss. And found some fruitfull information regarding weight loss in this forum. Thanks :)

[CryingFreeman]

I just want to clarify that muscle does not weigh more than fat. A pound of muscle is equal to a pound of fat. Its more of a matter of density, given the rigid structure and density of muscle it takes up less space than an equivalent amount of fat. Hope that clears things up. : )

Semantics

when you say something weighs more than something else you can be literal and refer to weight or not too literal and refer to density

whatever it takes to get the message across


when you say harry weighs more john you refer to weight
when you say lead weighs more than aluminium you refer to density

[axeman]

Hey, I know I'm late, and we've already digressed into the unavoidable nyah nyah stage, but I just wanna tell the fat guy that I dropped 30 lbs since I started kendo a year ago. It's not all due to kendo, but twice a week practice leads to wanting to do other stuff to improve your performance... so I started going for very moderate walk/runs... then just runs... and doing crunches to help with the abdominals (which seems important for me...)

Though I wouldn't think to disagree with Neil... I sorta... well... not disagree... but... maybe not completely agree. I eat a LOT of crap. Japan has some of the best crap. From choco-pies to kare-pan to the booze family. Get your metabolism up, which a bursty thing like kendo will do... and the furnace will take care of the garbage.

That's my theory (30 lbs lighter and eating a box of pokky sticks as I type...) In fact, just got home from keiko, and I'm still hot. Anyway, fewer calories should mean weight loss, but the body reacts in weird ways to calorie reductions. I've found that burning more works better than eating less. Kendo burns 'em. At least at first. Seems like the old guys barely move in jigeiko. But then none of them look overweight.

Good luck.

[CryingFreeman]

Hey, I know I'm late, and we've already digressed into the unavoidable nyah nyah stage, but I just wanna tell the fat guy that I dropped 30 lbs since I started kendo a year ago. It's not all due to kendo, but twice a week practice leads to wanting to do other stuff to improve your performance... so I started going for very moderate walk/runs... then just runs... and doing crunches to help with the abdominals (which seems important for me...)

Though I wouldn't think to disagree with Neil... I sorta... well... not disagree... but... maybe not completely agree. I eat a LOT of crap. Japan has some of the best crap. From choco-pies to kare-pan to the booze family. Get your metabolism up, which a bursty thing like kendo will do... and the furnace will take care of the garbage.

That's my theory (30 lbs lighter and eating a box of pokky sticks as I type...) In fact, just got home from keiko, and I'm still hot. Anyway, fewer calories should mean weight loss, but the body reacts in weird ways to calorie reductions. I've found that burning more works better than eating less. Kendo burns 'em. At least at first. Seems like the old guys barely move in jigeiko. But then none of them look overweight.

Good luck.

So do you think you would have lost more weight if you watched what you ate or do you think it would not have a major effect?

[axeman]

So do you think you would have lost more weight if you watched what you ate or do you think it would not have a major effect?
Sure, I think, obviously, that if you eat a massive amount of garbage, you'll get fat almost no matter what you do. Hence, my only "partial kind of sort of" disagreement with the statement that diet is more important. I'm more saying that unless you're expanding daily, and maybe even if you are (as I was before I started) , while sitting on your duff-- if you start regular exercise, you'll probably lose weight (and I mean that in the 'get thinner' sense).

I also firmly believe that if you starve yourself, it's unhealthy. If you don't eat at least some of what you want, you'll freak. So, my personal recommendation, which is worth precisely nothing, is to hold all else equal for the most part. Start exercising. Sure, cut down on sugar some (it's damn near poisonous), but basically just get into a regular exercise habit and don't think about it too much.

The benefits are such that you don't eat while you're exercising usually... your metabolism goes up... and you start to think differently about yourself. That leads to better choices all down the line, healthwise.

Whereas, if you try to just say "I'm not going to eat ice cream!" You'll probably find yourself with chocolatey knuckles some late night staring into an empty pint container thinking "oh, to hell with it!"

So, no, obviously, eating well is good. But eating well often seems to come from a good self-image and as a part of improving habits-- rather than causing those things. I'm half-joking about my diet. It's really pretty good, but I do enjoy the Japanese snacks (agemono, noodles, onigiri, karaage, etc.) and feel good about it because I know I'll burn it off (and in turn, know I have to burn it off) exercising.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You can approach the problem from either end - exercise more, eat less or a combination. Unfortunately a lot of people feel more hungry after exercise, so they eat more, thus cancelling the benefit of the exercise.

The way it works is this: figure out how much your body is burning. Start with your base metabolism, which depends on age, sex, weight and your general lifestyle. Then add in how much you're burning from exercise. Next figure out the number of calories you ingest - you have to count carefully. Subtract how much you burn from how much you eat. If the number is positive, you're going to gain weight. If negative, lose weight. You will gain or lose approximately 1 lb for every 3500 calories to the bad or good. This gain or loss will be a combination of fat and muscle. To ensure that a gain is mostly muscle and a loss is mostly fat, lift weights and make sure there's lots of protein in your diet.

There's an excellent website that allows you to figure all this stuff out and keep a personal log, it's called fitday (www.fitday.com).

[CryingFreeman]

Sure, I think, obviously, that if you eat a massive amount of garbage, you'll get fat almost no matter what you do. Hence, my only "partial kind of sort of" disagreement with the statement that diet is more important. I'm more saying that unless you're expanding daily, and maybe even if you are (as I was before I started) , while sitting on your duff-- if you start regular exercise, you'll probably lose weight (and I mean that in the 'get thinner' sense).

I also firmly believe that if you starve yourself, it's unhealthy. If you don't eat at least some of what you want, you'll freak. So, my personal recommendation, which is worth precisely nothing, is to hold all else equal for the most part. Start exercising. Sure, cut down on sugar some (it's damn near poisonous), but basically just get into a regular exercise habit and don't think about it too much.

The benefits are such that you don't eat while you're exercising usually... your metabolism goes up... and you start to think differently about yourself. That leads to better choices all down the line, healthwise.

Whereas, if you try to just say "I'm not going to eat ice cream!" You'll probably find yourself with chocolatey knuckles some late night staring into an empty pint container thinking "oh, to hell with it!"

So, no, obviously, eating well is good. But eating well often seems to come from a good self-image and as a part of improving habits-- rather than causing those things. I'm half-joking about my diet. It's really pretty good, but I do enjoy the Japanese snacks (agemono, noodles, onigiri, karaage, etc.) and feel good about it because I know I'll burn it off (and in turn, know I have to burn it off) exercising.

its too late, i just ate a chocolate bar and some biscuits

ah well. i'll just have to try again next year

[axeman]

Oh great. Now he knows that I disagreed, kind of.

Well, sure, all that's more or less true, although I think there's some compelling evidence to suggest that there are other factors at play (e.g., your body does not just produce X fat for Y calories.) Certainly, levels of fiber, minerals, fats, etc. all influence what your body does with ingested calories. That is to say, eating 3500 calories of oh... cabbage... is not the same as eating 3500 calories of "low-fat ice cream (i.e., big bowl of frozen sugar water)"

Anyway, I've found that people who try to track calories generally fail. So, while it's a great theory, it's a little bit like using Quicken to track your every penny spent. Great idea. No arguing that it'll give you useful information about your spending patterns. More than likely, it'll last two days.

Consider what Neil's saying as one way to look at it, and what I'm saying as another (not incompatible) way. I prefer to say "ok, refined flour is bad... refined sugar is bad... try to keep a reasonable lid on those" and then get outside and exercise regularly. The exercise will burn calories, but the more important factors are the effect on your general health-- physically and mentally-- and the metabolism boost. Thus, again to only partially and respectfully disagree... even eating a lot after exercise doesn't "cancel out" the effects. The furnace keeps working even after dinner. I say this from personal experience. I load up after my workouts. I'm starving when I get home. Still... the weight's not coming back.

This brings me back to recommending kendo. It turns out that building muscle and doing bursty exercise are great for losing fat. Kendo does those things. So, while it's a good idea to intersperse some hiking, running, weights, whatever in there, I think kendo is a great way to get fit and lose weight. THAT, ultimately, was my point.

Now, I should say that before I came here, I was as fat as I'd ever been-- pushing 195 lbs. at 6'. The 30 lbs. lost was too much. I was not eating nearly enough for the exercise that I was getting. I live on a steep hill, walk to the train, walk from the train to kendo, workout, and then do it all again to get home. Then, I'd go walking, hiking, or running a couple times a week. There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Now, I work out less, eat more, and I'm back to a normal 175 or so.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Of course, metabolism etc etc... it's complicated. But the 3500 cal/lb model works very well. I don't track detailed info myself. I did it for a while to get a general feel, and now I just eat what's reasonable. I think the "no second helpings, no snacks, avoid junk food" diet works pretty well if you're active. But many people are absolutely deluded when they think they're eating reasonable amounts and it's waaay easier to eat calories than burn them. We get these sorts of people all the time on misc.fitness.weights - "I've been exercising like crazy, got a personal trainer and everything and I'm not losing weight", to which we say "how much are you eating?" They usually go into denial at that point and eventually either leave the group or use fitday and say "holy crap, I was eating a lot!"

It all just boils down to "eat less, and exercise". If your weight is not going in the direction you want, you have to change one or both of those elements.

[Kirsty]

Just don't accidentally starve yourself. o_o;
I learned that the hard way.:(

[tattooedasshole]

Of course, metabolism etc etc... it's complicated. But the 3500 cal/lb model works very well. I don't track detailed info myself. I did it for a while to get a general feel, and now I just eat what's reasonable. I think the "no second helpings, no snacks, avoid junk food" diet works pretty well if you're active. But many people are absolutely deluded when they think they're eating reasonable amounts and it's waaay easier to eat calories than burn them. We get these sorts of people all the time on misc.fitness.weights - "I've been exercising like crazy, got a personal trainer and everything and I'm not losing weight", to which we say "how much are you eating?" They usually go into denial at that point and eventually either leave the group or use fitday and say "holy crap, I was eating a lot!"

It all just boils down to "eat less, and exercise". If your weight is not going in the direction you want, you have to change one or both of those elements.
Eating less is not always the answer. If you haven't been eating enough, your body turns most of what you eat into fat. Fat being the body's first resevoir for energy. Since the body thinks it's not getting enough food, it stocks up on fat, increasing weight.
You need to find a ballance in all things.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Eating less is not always the answer. If you haven't been eating enough, your body turns most of what you eat into fat. Fat being the body's first resevoir for energy. Since the body thinks it's not getting enough food, it stocks up on fat, increasing weight.
You need to find a ballance in all things.
Yup. Which is why actually doing the math is useful. Find out your inputs and outputs, and adjust so that you're at a 500 to 1000 calorie deficit daily (if losing is your goal). This puts you into a sane 1-2 lb loss/week. Many people like to up the daily deficit but put in a once/week cheat day which gives relief from the monotony and also tricks your body into not going into low metabolism mode.

If your goal is more extreme (like to get to sub 10% fat levels or suchlike) then you may need a more complicated approach. Try Lyle McDonald (www.bodyrecomposition.com) for the latest/greatest in diet/exercise for those serious about getting really cut.

[megumi_chan]

just wanted to add something about this topic on losing weight. I never dieted before but when i started practicing.......... i lost an extreme amount of weight.......... i think i lost around 20 lbs..... i didn't have to limit myself on what to eat i just sweated it! hehehehehehe

the problem when your limiting what you eat, especially if your just starting out you'll have a craving and you may have a food fiesta due to that craving. its best to eat well and exercise or practice 3 times a week the changes may not be that drastic but there will be a change not only in the way you look but also your lifestyle:)

[kendodummy]

hello, I've been on here before, but this is my first post in a while, and I switched names. Anywho, I'm in about the same condition you are in, just younger. I don't check my weight, but I feel better than I did before kendo. I'm also running a mile and lifting weights, and just trying to go over my expectations.

I don't do suburi though. The only way I could do it is to do it outside, but their are so many little kids running around they'd probably think I'm a homicidal maniac trying to kill my fence.

Well, good luck with everything,

NJ

[mark9_john]

I am also very unfit. Also is it hard to pick up this art at my age. :o

Dear, i understand ur prob.... may be i am little late to reply but still i want to suggst u somthing that might help u. :cool: if u want to loss weight u need to make an strategy (http://www.slimtour.com/weight_loss_strategies.html) for that Bcz what`s the use of running if you are not on the right road ;). So first step is to decide which type of weight loss program u want to opt and then better check the feasibility of that program, May this will help u. :)

[Curtis]

I can tell you that one of my members told me he lost 25 pounds and lowered his cholesterol 87 points since beginning kendo less than 2 years ago. He does not really do anything else but kendo a couple days a week.

[Paikea]

hello, I've been on here before, but this is my first post in a while, and I switched names.
That's OK Noah, I'd know you anywhere...

[sheyi]

according to a news published in telegraph: "Three quarters of men will be overweight in the next five years" u can very well imagin the increasing rate of obesity epideimc. now this increasing rate of obesity (http://www.hateweight.com/what_is_obesity.html) gives clear indication that we need a drastic change in our lifestyles. its todays non active lifestyle only which is responsible for being obese. burnig off the extra calories is as important as intaking calories. so its time to give a serious lookto our so called lazy lifestyle so as to keep unnecessary weight and body fat off. :)

[Gregory]

Sweating has nothing to do with weight loss. It is merely a way to cool your body down