Yagyu

[Ryan213]

Yagyu Shinkage , Yagyu Shingan , Yagyu Ryu ?
Whats what? What clan is it connected to? shimazu? how?

[Nanbanjin]

Yagyu Shinkage , Yagyu Shingan , Yagyu Ryu ?
Whats what? What clan is it connected to? shimazu? how?

They're all breeds of 野牛 cow.

[Kaoru]

They're all breeds of 野牛 cow.

Hi Goaty-san,

They are not. What grass/other misc. scraps did you eat to come up with that? :D :D

Baaaaaaa!

Kaoru

[Taisaburo]

Yagyu Shinkage , Yagyu Shingan , Yagyu Ryu ?
Whats what? What clan is it connected to? shimazu? how?

Yagyu Shingan ryu is Jujutsu, Yagyu Shinkage ryu is Kenjutsu, Yagyu ryu is also Kenjutsu (I Believe). And their not related to the Shimazu Han. They are, collective, called the Yagyu Shinkage ryu Heiho. A school of military arts (Bugei, or Bujutsu) that was employed by the Tokugawa Shogunate to teach the Shogun.

[Andoru]

They're all breeds of 野牛 cow.


Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!! Go kobe beef!! :D

[Hisham]

I second Taisaburo but i never heard about a Yagyu ryu of kenjutsu.

[Light Samurai]

I second Taisaburo but i never heard about a Yagyu ryu of kenjutsu.
Yagyu-Ryu is the base style for Yagyu Shinkage ryu, but that should be obivious...
Peace and love.

[DCPan]

Yagyu-Ryu is the base style for Yagyu Shinkage ryu, but that should be obivious...
Peace and love.

No, Shinkage ryu is the base for Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.

http://www.koryu.com/guide/yagyushinkage.html

When people say Yagyu Ryu, they usually mean Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.

FWIW.

[Light Samurai]

No, Shinkage ryu is the base for Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.

http://www.koryu.com/guide/yagyushinkage.html

When people say Yagyu Ryu, they usually mean Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.

FWIW.
Ah, Okay. Sorry.

[Hisham]

Ah, Okay. Sorry.

It happens :)

Thanks for the clarification about the "Yagyu ryu" DC.

[DCPan]

Ah, Okay. Sorry.

Nothing to be sorry about! :wink:

[ben]

To confuse matters only slightly, the style of the Shimazu family, rulers of Satsuma was/is Satsuma *Kage* no Ryu. How it connects with the Shin (new)Kage ryuha is not something I understand however. I think the long-sword style that Colin Watkin practices in Northern Kyushu is also called Kage Ryu.

b

[Hisham]

To confuse matters only slightly, the style of the Shimazu family, rulers of Satsuma was/is Satsuma *Kage* no Ryu. How it connects with the Shin (new)Kage ryuha is not something I understand however. I think the long-sword style that Colin Watkin practices in Northern Kyushu is also called Kage Ryu.

b

The father of Munenori, Yagyu Muneyoshi was the pupill of Kamiizumi Nobutsuna who's one of the legendary japanese swordsmen and the founder of the shinkage ryu, anyway Kage ryu's history dates back to before Nobutsuna since that's the style he studied, the thing is Mr Colin Hyakutake in this article talks about a Kage ryu (http://www.koryubooks.com/library/chyakutake1.html) which has no link to the Shinkage ryu, so i guess the word Kage was used in the name of many ryu which don't relate to eachother. I'd like to know if the Kage ryu that was thought to Nobutsuna is still alive.

[Saitama Steve]

Yagyu Shingan ryu is Jujutsu, Yagyu Shinkage ryu is Kenjutsu, Yagyu ryu is also Kenjutsu (I Believe). And their not related to the Shimazu Han. They are, collective, called the Yagyu Shinkage ryu Heiho. A school of military arts (Bugei, or Bujutsu) that was employed by the Tokugawa Shogunate to teach the Shogun.

Shinkage-ryu is Shinkage-ryu.

Yagyu Shingan-ryu is Yagyu Shingan-ryu.

That's it, no collective.

[Alex Dale]

Hello all,


Yagyu Shinkage and Yagyu Shingan really have almost no connection. I believe there was some meeting between the headmaster of the Shingan-ryu with Yagyu Jubei and added the name "Yagyu" to his style in honor of Jubei. Or something like that.


As far as lineage goes, it is my understanding that Kamiizumi Ise-no-kami Nobutsuna studied Katori Shinto-ryu and Kage-ryu (not Mr. Watkin's Kage-ryu, mind you), and formed the Shinkage-ryu. Several branches of Shinkage-ryu formed, including branches by his students Hikida and Jingo (sp?), but most famously was passed on to the Yagyu family (Muneyoshi and Munenori).

FROM THERE, Munenori was appointed as private fencing instructor to the shogunate, and Muneyoshi returned to Yagyumura and continued teaching. From here, YSR split into two seperate lineages: Munenori's (known as the EDO line: he felt he had made considerable change over his father's YSR), and Muneyoshi (known as the OWARI line).

Some controversy about this as the Edo line supposedly died out some time ago. But who knows.


Don't know too much about Yagyu Shingan-ryu, only enough that it isn't Yagyu SHINKAGE-ryu.


Oh, and Yagyu-ryu is just a misnomer or a shortening, I believe, for both of the above YSR's.


Regards,

-Alex Dale

[Taisaburo]

Shinkage-ryu is Shinkage-ryu.

Yagyu Shingan-ryu is Yagyu Shingan-ryu.

That's it, no collective.

Collectively as a School. That being a school of military arts (Heiho) which Yagyu Shinkage ryu was. Hence, Yagyu Shinkage ryu Heiho, go look at the schools website which will soldify my statement.

[Hisham]

While surfing the net i found out about whom was the founder of the Kage ryu which Nobutsuna studied, the website is in french.
The founder's name is Aizu Hyuga no Kami Iko (1452-1538) according to the website his ryu was called Aizu Kage ryu many schools stemed from this one.
Anybody who can confirm this information would be much apreciated.

[Oukaranman]

Tajima no kami Munenori (1571-1646) was a historical swordsman who inherited the school of swordsmanship called Yagyu Shinkage Ryu from his father Yagyu Sekishusai Muneyoshi. This was the official tradition taught under the Tokugawa shogunate of Japan in the Edo period. Munenori was a hatamoto, a direct retainer of the Tokugawa house, and was later made a minor daimyo. He is known to have taught sword fighting to Tokugawa Ieyasu's son, Tokugawa Hidetada.
Munenori's sons, Yagyu Jubei and Yagyu Munefuyu, were also famous swordsmen.
Japanese television actor and personality Hiroshi Yagyu and his son Shingo Yagyu are descendants of Yagyu Munenori.

[Philippe]

While surfing the net i found out about whom was the founder of the Kage ryu which Nobutsuna studied, the website is in french.
The founder's name is Aizu Hyuga no Kami Iko (1452-1538) according to the website his ryu was called Aizu Kage ryu many schools stemed from this one.
Anybody who can confirm this information would be much apreciated.
Meant to reply earlier, but life interfered.

The Kage-ryū (陰流) was founded by Aisu Ikōsai Hisatada, also known as Hyūga-no-kami and Aisu Iko. Kamiizumi Ise-no-kami Nobutsuna is traditionally said to have learnt the Kage-ryū directly from its founder, but given the age differences, it seems more likely that he learnt it from Aisu Ikōsai's son, Aisu Koshichirō Munemichi. Before learning the Kage-ryū, Nobutsuna has also studied the Nen-ryū and the Shinto-ryū. He then went on to found the Shinkage-ryū (新陰流), from which several schools were developed, either directly, or through one of the schools of Nobutsuna's Shinkage-ryū.

Of course, the most famous descendant of the initial Shinkage-ryū is the Yagyū Shinkage-ryū (柳生新陰流) founded by Yagyū Sekishūsai Muneyoshi. That school split into the Edo branch　(江戸柳生), which kept the Yagyū Shinkage-ryū name and was headed by Sekishūsai's son Munenori and the Owari Yagyū-ryū (尾張柳生流), under Yagyū Hyōgonosuke Toshiyoshi, Sekishūsai's grandson (Munenori's nephew).

Finally, the Yagyū Shingan-ryū (柳生心眼流) is a jūjutsu style, which gets the Yagyū name because its founder, Takenaga Hayato was granted permission to use the name by Munenori. Hayato did study the Shinkage-ryū under Munenori and it is believed that he developed his jūjutsu system after completing said studies, it is possible that the Yagyū Shinkage-ryū had some influence on the Yagyū Shingan-ryū.

All of the above, of course, means that saying only Yagyū-ryū can be very confusing, as it could serve as an abbreviation for any of the above. In context, however, it's usually clear enough.

[Hisham]

Thank you for the reply Philippe.